Am I insane?
(Ok, so maybe you shouldn't answer that :rofl)
But seriously - would it be completely nuts to order a 5dII now that it's being put on "clearance" (presumably in advance of the 6d being released)? I nearly put an order through just now, but jusssst managed to stop myself clicking "purchase" impulsively!
I can't afford a 5dIII. I've tried every way I could think of to justify it, and without something to sell to part-fund it, I just can't (even though I suspect it'd be perfect for me).
The 6d may turn out to be great, but I'm a bet "meh" about the spec as it looks on paper.
Many of you in here know my shooting style and my technical frustrations/needs - am I going to be happy with a 5dII? I can sell my xsi+Tamron 17-50 (sob) to throw a little bit of money towards it, and then have a 7d/5dII combo. I do love my 7d extra focus points, but I managed with 9 on the xsi and took decent pictures, so I suspect I can do it again.
I would need to sell it at some point, I'm sure, and wonder if it will plummet with the flood of used copies that will hit the market when the 6d arrives.
Thoughts?
But seriously - would it be completely nuts to order a 5dII now that it's being put on "clearance" (presumably in advance of the 6d being released)? I nearly put an order through just now, but jusssst managed to stop myself clicking "purchase" impulsively!
I can't afford a 5dIII. I've tried every way I could think of to justify it, and without something to sell to part-fund it, I just can't (even though I suspect it'd be perfect for me).
The 6d may turn out to be great, but I'm a bet "meh" about the spec as it looks on paper.
Many of you in here know my shooting style and my technical frustrations/needs - am I going to be happy with a 5dII? I can sell my xsi+Tamron 17-50 (sob) to throw a little bit of money towards it, and then have a 7d/5dII combo. I do love my 7d extra focus points, but I managed with 9 on the xsi and took decent pictures, so I suspect I can do it again.
I would need to sell it at some point, I'm sure, and wonder if it will plummet with the flood of used copies that will hit the market when the 6d arrives.
Thoughts?
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An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Resale should be the last thing to consider in my opinion. These things are what you make money with so some deprecation is ok. But with this new rebate+ you get a warranty That"s a good deal if this is the one you want.
Of course you should get a D 700 and all of the greatness it comes with
Gary
No. The 7D if it is as good as everyone says, will not plummet when the 6d comes out. Has the 5DMk2 plummeted? If so, how long has it taken? And of course it's 4 yrs. old tech, right?
Other Question. Please refresh us on what you feel you do not have in this 7D body? And if you will what you think a 5DMk2 would bring to that table?
What I want? Full frame yumminess and improved high ISO capability.
Why now? remaining stock for the 5dII has just had a price drop
Resale value? Not worried about the 7d when the 6d hits the streets, but the drop on the 5d2 as people throw them overboard. With the current price drop AND the market likely to be flooded with used ones in response to the two newer FF models (5d3 and 6d), I wonder if it will go WAY down over the next year. I typically "buy low" and then consider what I lose when I resell a sort of rental fee, but if the price were to drop too much that ceases to be attractive.
I'm still awfully tempted.....
I do not buy cameras as investments to make money later...my philosophy is pretty simple...buy the best tool that you can afford now...use it till it is wore out or you can afford something better then move up ... ... I actually have a better feeling about my own art now that I am back into a format that I "grew up" with ... ... meaning 35mm to full Frame digital....when I look thru the viewfinder I feel more confident with my framing ... ... so look inside as to why you need what you want and go for it....it maynot be the latest or greatest but the real question is.....Is it better than what you currently use.....
Good Luck with you conundrum .....
Why? To save $300? (assuming the 6D hits the street at MSRP) That seems short sighted...?
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
I guess i am looking at it from the standpoint of spending an extra $300 as opposed to saving. Given that Diva says she is ambivalent about the 6d's paper specs .... Presumably HDR, wifi, GPS (what we know on paper) it wouldn't be worth the extra $ for me (for me the silent shutter is interesting). Plus, it can be purchased now, not several months. And once the 6d hits the streets, do you wait awhile for its price to drop?
I totally get the tempted aspect I believe. I have to say: If...If I had a D700, a D600, a 5Dmk2, or a Canon 7D Sitting on a table all priced the same and I was a portrait shooter-predominantly, I'd get anything BUT the 5DMk2. I am not saying it isn't capable, I am saying there is much to be desired in it's portraiture-acumen..if Camera's can have acumen
I get the high ISO thing....but thats about all I get here. I've been FX as soon as Nikon built one, but I think your 7D out-iQ's the 5Dmk2. def has better Af system, and faster processor.
But hey, don't let me stop you...I think it's time for you to do your share to stimulate the economy~
Nope. I had both. Only time the 7D beats the 5D2 is when AF is crucial, or when the 5D2 is focal length limited. Below ISO 800 you had to look at 100% view to see the 5D2's advantage, but then it was obvious.
AF, silent shutter, HDR, ergonomics... easily worth $300. I bought my 5D3 for the AF, but I use the HDR and silent shutter a lot more than I would have ever dreamed. Get in with a realtor friend and shoot real estate to make some easy money. The HDR makes it easy as pie. It's almost like stealing. (sample)
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
is very useful and it rocks especially with the new firmware upgrades.
The things that I don't care for on the 5DII, after using the 7D for a few years,
are the control button layouts and of course the plethora of missing functions.
5DII works for short end use, landscapes, architecture, and of course,
portraiture. If you are a pixel peeper, and I am, then the 5DII will offer slightly sharper images with
a bit of ISO improvement. But, if I had known the 6D was coming out near 2K I think I would
have waited just for the tech and ergonomics improvement.
Have you used a 5DII? If not, you might rent one for a few days and really see if you like the feel
of it. Compared to the 7D it feels more like a brick to me. Not weight, but ergonomically. If you
do a lot of hand held work then you might, or might not like the feel of the 5DII.
I'm actually considering waiting a bit and possibly letting the 5DII go and picking up the
6D later on.
If you rent it might scratch that "gotta have it" itch a bit and help you decide.
Good luck and let us know what "road" you take.
It all comes down to what and how you shoot. The mk2 will not fully satisfy you if you're photographing anything that moves in low light, or anything at super shallow apertures, especially for any kind of off-center composition. The 5D mk2 is a great camera indeed, but that is it's Achilles heel. The AF bites. If you're serious about this as a profession or even just a rewarding hobby, get a mk3 if you need the most versatility possible. Save up if you have to. It's worth it. The 6D may also be a good idea, however that remains to be seen and the AF could still bite roughly as much as the 5D mk2.
The 5D mk2 is still a screaming deal right now, of course. I highly recommend it for many types of general photography. Except action, or extremely shallow DOF / off-center composition type stuff. If you'd like to be able to nail a moving subject composed at the rule of thirds at f/1.4 in near-darkness, the mk2 is not for you. If you spend most of your time at f/2.8 or f/4 and your subjects move little enough that focus+re-compose works for you, then the mk2 might be just the camera for you.
:-)
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Which in particular?
Matt
Well, only when talking about other people's dime, and not when the price has gone down $1800!! That price drop is what really makes the difference, frankly.
Jack (corrected), if the 6d had more focus points I'd probably agree with you. But the fact that it will only be 11 - vs 9 - isn't going to be that helpful to me for the off-center composition, which Matt quite rightly mentions as something that WILL be important to me. The $300 vs the 6d isn't that big a deal, but just that the 6d is a completely unknown quantity at this point - new sensor, new AF system - so it's likely to be several months before one can make any intelligent decision about it at all, by which time this last gasp of 5d's will be long gone. The silent shutter appeals to me, but there's really no application for HDR with what I do, except very occasionally for fun as an artistic effect.
Not a MOVING subject, but the others are all on my dance-card
Yes to 2.8........ no to focus+recompose (bleah).
Hmm. Still have to think about this.............
Morning Folks,
You can buy a refurbed 5D2 for well under $1500 through the CLP. Even with tax (free shipping though) it's around $1510. Where are you going to buy one at that price and get a 90 day warranty
As for the 5D2 not being able to shoot in very low light conditions, that's BS. I have dozens of pics taken in a tunnel where the only available light was from a miner's like hard hat, and I had no issues with the af. Most were shot at iso 6400 and around F2. I've posted quite a few on this site in the past, showing what it can do. I wonder what excuse peoople will use for the 5D3 when the 5D4 comes out ? Thanks for looking
Have a good day
Jim...
I will pick up a 5D3 in time to replace the 5D2 but the only thing I would jump on quickly is a 7D2. In my dreams it would be just like the 7D but with improved IQ and better low light performance.
Nick.
my equipment: Canon 5D2, 7D, full list here
my Smugmug site: here
It's Jack. AF - well, whaddya gonna do. Unfortunately with Canon you must pay dearly for a FF camera with reliable cross-type sensors at the outer points. Would buying a 5D3 cost you more or less than converting all your gear to Nikon? If you did go to the 5D3, I would say you could sell your 7D, XSi, 17-50, and 85/1.8. I'm not a believer in back up cameras except for weddings and events of utmost importance. Looks like you generally don't do those things, so on the rare occasion you do, you do you can rent.
6D is an unknown quantity? Talk about a vote of no confidence in Canon. Here, I will predict the future for you. The 6D will get into the hands of nerdy pixel peepers and they will announce the sky is falling because there is banding in the shadows when they push 3 stops and view at 100%. The 5D2 had this "problem" as well, yet thousands of real photographers somehow go on making their living with it. Sensible photographers will enjoy their brand new 6D and get fantastic results. I had the first 5D3 in my state, and it has been wonderful.
Now, if a refurbished 5D2 from CLP would make sense, I would say saving $600 would be worth it. However I think the FF vs crop DOF thing is way over-hyped. 1.33 stops is really not much of a difference. Yes, there are some times when the "3D-ness" of a FF photo jumps out at me as only being possible with FF, but it's rare. Maybe you should just be happy with your 7D and save your money?
Edit - another thought - the 7D's IQ can be disappointing at 100% view. The 5D2's (and presumably the 6D's) AF limitation of only having 1 cross type will let you down sometimes. Will the number of photos tainted or ruined by these shortcomings be greater on the 7D side or the 5D2/6D side? Personally when I had a 7D and 5D2, I found myself using the 7D for sports, and the 5D2 for everything else.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
No, not so much that, as that on paper I don't think this camera has me and my needs in mind; real-life use may prove otherwise, but I won't know that in time to make this particular decision, now. It really seems that the GPS, wifi, HDR etc speak to a different end-user. The sensor is probably just fine, and the AF will likely please many for certain uses .... but I'm not sure how much it would offer me above the 5dII's since it doesn't have enough extra AF points to let me use those all the time (as the 7d does).
Which kind of speaks to my dilemma. I do love my 7d, but it can sometimes be sniffy about focusing in low-contrast situations too. Question is, will the higher ISO clarity be enough of a payoff? Really, it's only this big price-drop that has made me second-guess myself, and potential further price-drop in the next 6 months. I have a history of "stepping-stone" upgrades (eg xsi>a used 50d while I was saving for the 7d>sold 50d for almost what I paid when I had accrued the difference for the refurb 7d).
Long term plan would be: 5dII now (sell xsi, use 7d as 2nd cam); when 5dIII price comes down in 6-12mos, sell both 7d and 5dII, and then add the necessary extra for the 5dIII.
Or I may abandon the whole decisions-making process, buy a 24-70II and go hide
The improvement in image quality you'd get with the 5D2 demands that you work around the focus system. That may or may not be a burden. How often do you focus off-center?
I have a 5d2 and a 135mm f/2.0L and my take on "focus and recompose" is "focus on the desired focus point and crop sideways in post." You get a lot of eyeballs centered on that center cross focus point, but pixels let you recompose by cropping - the lens is 1.6 times shorter than on a crop sensor and the sensor has a boat load of pixels.
(You're in trouble if you are too close and have to pick between focus and a composition that gets everything into the frame. A bride and groom about to kiss and you are perfectly centered between them. The open gap between them is off in the weeds. Focus and recompose will focus past them. Focusing on one and staying on that one them puts the other out of focus and out of the frame. You can't get the anticipation shot, you have to wait for a nose to make it to your center focus point. )
"Focus and crop sideways" can be a lot of work if you have a bunch of frames to crop. This is a time versus money trade off; your time in post compared to money up front to buy the 5D3 that you really want. Others have spoken about how well it can focus in the dark off center.
If most of your frames would be perfectly composed using just the center focus point - and this is the case for some that you have posted - then it's not such a limitation.
If you're already feeling the "envelope push" with the 7D, then the 5D mk2 will be a miserable experience for you.
I'm actually surprised that you haven't gathered enough shooting experience with the 5D mk2 yourself to make the decision apparent. Since my own opinions are often very passionate, and usually relate to a very specific style of shooting, I want you to disregard my accusations that the 5D mk2 is downright "abysmal" in low light. (Even though I've shot with literally every full-frame DSLR ever produced) The bottom line is that you risk making the wrong decision if you don't have your own experiences to guide you. I don't know how much you've shot with the mk2 yet, let alone the mk3, and I don't know how easy it would be for you to gain access to either of these cameras for an entire shoot. However that is the best advice I can give- You need to work with these cameras and know them inside and out before you will know which is right for you.
Personally, as someone who shoots weddings, theater, and "lifestyle" portraits for a living, I wouldn't settle for anything less than the 5D mk3.
Oh, and BTW... ...Jim, this is simply not an accurate representation of (my) reality. Yes, there is always room for improvement in new cameras. But your speculation that a 5D mk4 would totally obsolete the mk3, and magically push it below some new standard, is incorrect for me. I still pay my bills with a D700, a discontinued camera! I tried the D800, and you know what? While there is a little bit of improvement, I don't need it. I believe the same will go for whatever replaces the 5D mk3 in ~3 years. The mk3 will continue to be a very acceptable camera.
There is indeed a threshold of acceptability. It is certainly different for each person, as many have paid their bills with the 5D mk2 for years. But my point is that others simply have different styles / needs.
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
True. The 5D3 will become obsolete only when it ceases to take pictures. I will have mine until it dies. When you think of it that way, Diva, it's not so expensive anymore.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
No worries.
Seriously what do you need two bodies for? I shot 3 years of Little League T&I and action (5000 keepers over the course of a month), and never had a camera or lens fail. I say roll the dice. Sell your 7D while it is still worth something, sell your XSi, Tamron, 85/1.8, get the camera you really want and be happy. You'll have it for a long time.
Pssh, if you have that kind of money then get the 5D3!!
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Nak, it's only this most recent price drop that has prompted me to consider - current NEW price is less than last week's used. That screams "massive deal" to me, and made me wonder if I should just give it a whirl.
With my luck, I'll hem and haw for so long that the decision will be made for me when they sell out
Yeah, the 5D3 will be an acceptable camera for years to come, just as the 5D2 will be as well. People bashed the af on that camera for years, but yet they continued to use it, rather then buy a 1 series camera for weddings and other low light events. If you know the limitations of any equipment, then don't buy it thinking it's gonna prove you wrong, and miraculously exceed your expectations. It ain't gonna happen. Using a studio, portrait or landscape camera like the 5D or 5D2 to shoot weddings, is like taking a knife to a gun fight. People know it's not reliable in those type of settings, but they continue to use them, then they complain about em. How many photographers, pro or amateur, have you heard complain about the great portrait sessions they have taken with a 5D2, or captured incredible landscape shots with it ? Not many I'll bet. I've used the 5D2 in quite a few low light (construction) projects with excellent results. I don't need a 5D3, and won't need a 5D4 when it comes out. If I decide to shoot weddings, then I'll buy a 1 series camera post haste ! After all, my clients are worth it
Have a good day
Jim...
the 5D2 is good if you don't shoot a lot of sports, earlier this summer it was on the CLP program for $1400, I don't know if Canon will sell it lower than but it's still a very good model.
The whole "they continued to use it instead of buying a 1-series" POV is just not fair to any Canon shooter who didn't have money coming out their ears.
That is why tons of photographers jumped ship from the 5D mk1 / mk2 to the D700, in 2008-2011. They could buy two D700's, or one plus a couple pro lenses, for less than the price of a single 1Ds mk3.
That, to me, is why the 5D mk3 is such a big deal. It is "only" $3500 and it has pro AF. It finally meets the standards of many low-light photojournalists and action photographers, without breaking the bank.
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
I dunno, I feel like since I'm not a full-time pro, I'm not expected to have back-up cameras. I would at a wedding, but for example I have an event coming up for a non-profit org that a friend of a friend is organizing, and they hired me to cover it. If my camera goes poof, I will just shrug and say my camera broke, and not bill them. Maybe this would be career-limiting, but I'm not really trying to make this a career. Again, I have never had a camera fail, so I'm fine to roll the dice. Maybe if I was still milking an old camera I'd feel differently. But not with a new camera.
I would do that. No need to have a 7D hanging around that you almost never use, when you could sell it now for decent money. Or maybe sell the 7D and XSi and get a 5D3 and T3i if the math works out. Hmmmm, articulating LCD....
Bah. The "old" 24-70L is more than "good enough" to keep. However.... there is this.
Anyway, I still think buying a new 5D2 is crazy. But a factory refurb for $1500 or less would make sense.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.