Thank you HarryB
I also wonder why I had no responses to my recent post "Revised Zoom Test" on my S9000.
The pics were shot from 28 mm to 600 mm (digital zoom ).
I hope this Zoom Test post did not offend any DSLR user.
It was not intended to.
I also wonder why I had no responses to my recent post "Revised Zoom Test" on my S9000.
The pics were shot from 28 mm to 600 mm (digital zoom ).
I hope this Zoom Test post did not offend any DSLR user.
It was not intended to.
Thank you again HarryB,
Regards, Nicholas
Nicholas what would indicate that you may have offended the DSLR users ?
You post a 600mm shot that can beat a DSLR with a 600mm & i will be the 1st asking you how you did it & where can i buy the equip you are using. Sometimes posts just get washed to the kerb...everyone gets it. Sometimes its because those posters do not give any feedback to others & want the light on them selves all the time so people may ignor them (in no way am i saying this is the case but just pointing out reasons) It could be that it was posted at a particular time that people whom may have been interested were away at work or for the week-end & thus it is pushed back Please dont get hung up on the why who's & whats of people in forums....
I also wonder why I had no responses to my recent post "Revised Zoom Test" on my S9000.
The pics were shot from 28 mm to 600 mm (digital zoom ).
I hope this Zoom Test post did not offend any DSLR user.
It was not intended to.
Thank you again HarryB,
Regards, Nicholas
Hey Nick,
In the end its about the pictures and not the gear. The "best" camera is the one that fits the individual. Last year I shoot at the St. Augustine Rookery with 4 other dgrinners. Three of us shot with DSLRs, one shot with a Panasonic Lumix, and one with the Sony 828. When we posted our pics you couldn't tell which camera took which shot.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
In the end its about the pictures and not the gear. The "best" camera is the one that fits the individual. Last year I shoot at the St. Augustine Rookery with 4 other dgrinners. Three of us shot with DSLRs, one shot with a Panasonic Lumix, and one with the Sony 828. When we posted our pics you couldn't tell which camera took which shot.
At least canon users dont carry blue dye in the gear bag to punch the water up a bit.
At least canon users dont carry blue dye in the gear bag to punch the water up a bit.
Its sad to see a Mod stirring the waters in such a manner. :cry Fortunately having the good taste to use Nikon cameras also means that I have too much class to be agitated by such a blatant attempt to cause dissension.
:splat :fu :boid :crazy
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Its sad to see a Mod stirring the waters in such a manner. :cry Fortunately having the good taste to use Nikon cameras also means that I have too much class to be agitated by such a blatant attempt to cause dissension.
:splat :fu :boid :crazy
Got a good nikon lens site in your favorites harry ? Say one with some short primes & a canon adaptor ?
Its sad to see a Mod stirring the waters in such a manner. :cry Fortunately having the good taste to use Nikon cameras also means that I have too much class to be agitated by such a blatant attempt to cause dissension.
:splat :fu :boid :crazy
:lol4 :lol4 :lol4 :lol4 :haha
"Kettle calling black" I'm glad you've never taken shots at a certain Canon user Mr. Moderator.
"Kettle calling black" I'm glad you've never taken shots at a certain Canon user Mr. Moderator.
Me!!!!! Never!!!! I always try to be kind to those less fortunate than myself.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Originally Posted by Harryb I was kind of surprised that a shot from a Canon had noise. I thought that wasn't supposed to happen unless you shot at ISO4800 or higher.
Here I was merely paying homage to the low noise levels of Canon cameras.
Originally Posted by Harryb ye gads Mike that's the bluest little blue heron I have ever seen. Did you buy a Nikon?
What higher honor could I pay a pic than to think it was taken by a Nikon camera?
Seesh!!!! You try to be a nice guy and some folks just try to twist it around. :cry
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I finally started to read this thread... this is an absolute riot!
I have a very interesting perspective on this....
My first SLR was a Canon FT (all manual, not even Aperature priority or a winder). I purchased a couple of lenses and really got good with it.
Then I saw what winders could do and autoexposure with matrix style metering. I was going to purchase a Canon, but they switched lens mounts on me. What good would all my Canon lenses do me? This ticked me off, as Nikon never switched lens mounts.....
So I purchased an Nikon 8008s... and a couple of manual focus lens that worked on it!!! I really liked this camera, and achieved great results, but life got the better of me... I got sick of film and life got busy. I swore I would never convert to digital, but I started getting jealous of the ease and instant gratification....
So my (now) wife bought me a Canon S200. For those of you who don't know, this is a 2mp point and shoot with a 2x optical zoom. It fits in a shirt pocket and you can manually set the shutter speed (and a bunch of other settings). I fell in love all over again and the Nikon gathered dust for a couple of years. (though it is true, I was not taking that many *photographs*, just snapshots. But I still get some great shots and even got good at the shutter lag....
This brings me to (relatively) present. I knew I really wanted to sink my teeth in photography and I missed my SLR, so it was now time. Remember I had the Nikon lenses (though most manual focus). A good friend of mine that shot my wedding (a CPPA), has been shooting Canon digital for years (prior to that he was Minolta & Hasselblad film, Minolta for 35mm and Hasselblad for medium format). I borrowed a 10d and a couple of IS zooms from him and I was hooked. The camera just felt right. I picked up my 20D this summer and have been building my lens collection. I traded in all my Nikon equip. Once in a while, I am jealous of the Nikon shooter... they can still buy old (still GREAT) Nikon glass (albeit manual focus) for pennies on the dollar. I am talking about Nikor 300mm f2.8 for a couple of hundred dollars!!! Imagine the lenses we Canon owners could have??? I don't mind manual focus to this day. In fact, sometimes I still have to switch to it, in low light or to help me compose.
As for the Sony that started this whole thread.... no comment (as I have no experience).
Here I was merely paying homage to the low noise levels of Canon cameras.
What higher honor could I pay a pic than to think it was taken by a Nikon camera?
Seesh!!!! You try to be a nice guy and some folks just try to twist it around. :cry
Aww come on Harry. I was just bustin' ya chops. I just wanted an excuse to post the pick of the wooden guy. It's all in good fun and you know it Mr. Nikonian blue bird. :uhoh
Im just glad I have any kind of camera, pinhole or disposable, film or digital, nikon or canon. . Its not what kind you have, it's how you use it, hehe.
Im just glad I have any kind of camera, pinhole or disposable, film or digital, nikon or canon. . Its not what kind you have, it's how you use it, hehe.
Hence my signature:
(nevermind. I could have sworn I changed it to "It's not the camera, it's the photograph. It's not what you look at, it's what you see...")
You DSLR guys are all over the place, off topic, which I am enjoying, with friendly kibitzing, but not on topic.
The following words were written to descibe the merits ( in DWIA's opinion) of the Fuji S9000 ( a/k/a/ Fuji S9500):
Fujifilm FinePix S9500 - Test conclusion
Kai Thon, DIWA's test manager comments: "The FinePix S9500 is a compact package that will solve most photographic challenges from virtually any photographer, professional and amateur alike. It is also very budget-friendly, considering the price of any 28-300 mm f/2.8-4.9 zoom lens with super macro capability as close as 1 cm, not to forget the well reputed Super CCD HR image sensor with 9 Mp resolution and many professional-like features. DIWA experts found the FinePix S9500 to be a perfect assembly of imaging essentials built into a user-friendly body at a very competitive price."
Have you ever read such glowing and detailed remarks about any prosumer digital camera?
You DSLR guys are all over the place, off topic, which I am enjoying, with friendly kibitzing, but not on topic.
The following words were written to descibe the merits ( in DWIA's opinion) of the Fuji S9000 ( a/k/a/ Fuji S9500):
Fujifilm FinePix S9500 - Test conclusion
Kai Thon, DIWA's test manager comments: "The FinePix S9500 is a compact package that will solve most photographic challenges from virtually any photographer, professional and amateur alike. It is also very budget-friendly, considering the price of any 28-300 mm f/2.8-4.9 zoom lens with super macro capability as close as 1 cm, not to forget the well reputed Super CCD HR image sensor with 9 Mp resolution and many professional-like features. DIWA experts found the FinePix S9500 to be a perfect assembly of imaging essentials built into a user-friendly body at a very competitive price."
Have you ever read such glowing and detailed remarks about any prosumer digital camera?
Regards, Nicholas
Do you work for fuji or something? We give, the S9000/S9500 is an awesome camrea. I for one really hope you enjoy it! Feel free to post any pictures you take with it here on dgrin.
Sticking with my Canon 20D/17-85/50-500 Bigma
For now
Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance.
Do you work for fuji or something? We give, the S9000/S9500 is an awesome camrea. I for one really hope you enjoy it! Feel free to post any pictures you take with it here on dgrin.
Sticking with my Canon 20D/17-85/50-500 Bigma
Sure but DWIA isn't posting on here. So why push the S9500 so much out of curiosity? DPreview gave it a fairly good review. They say over and over again how it is really tops in its class. Very nearly dSLR quality but not quite. I'd personally have a bit of trouble accepting the limitations of the lens (particularly on the wide end). 28mm isn't all that wide. Also you never have any hope of getting better than f/4.9 at 300mm. That's a show stopper for me. Also the noise at ISO 1600 is horrible (here too). Another annoyance is that the hot shoe doesn't allow communication between the flash and the camera.
The thing is once my talents make it so I reach the limits of the camera's configuration, I wouldn't be able to change it like I can on a dSLR. I'd be stuck with the package I had. For my purposes dSLRs are so much more versatile and faster and easier on the batteries that I wouldn't give them up.
But there are without a doubt camera users out there for which the S9500 would fit the bill perfectly. I certainly would have liked it when I first started out. Just not anymore.
Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance.
Sure but DWIA isn't posting on here. So why push the S9500 so much out of curiosity?
Hello Mike,
I am not pushing anything.
I am simply posting links to my S9000 images.
I don't think you can find one word of mine knocking someone else's camera selection.
I spent $2,200 for a D30, $2,200 for a D60, both of which I still own, 2 55oEX EX flashes, ( which I use manually with my S9000 ) lenes, filters, tubes, etc., etc..
And I can take better pics from more vantage points & in lower light with my $599 Fuji S9000 than I can with my Canons or my Sony F-828.
Have you ever read such glowing and detailed remarks about any prosumer digital camera?
Nicholas,
As you know, I've been supporting you on your enthusiasm about your camera BUT the truth is, YES - I have read glowing reports about most of the newest cameras. Many of the participants of this board also frequent dpreview.com and we appreciate Phil's detailed tests of digital cameras. Most of the new prosumer cameras are getting his "Highly Recommended" status. I might mention that the s9000/9500 received a lesser "Recommended" conclusion. Here's the link.
You like your Fuji, so do some others, others are less impressed - that's the way it is . . .
Let's move on. The off-topic parts of this threads were the more entertaining parts of the thread.
Comparing features and magazine & website reviews is really nothing more than a p*ssing contest. No one wins. We all know your opinion and it's a valid one but in reality no one really cares what you shoot with. I know Andy shoots with a Canon 5D (this week anyway, : ). Lots of Canon fans on this board. Guess what - I'm still shooting Nikon. I like what I have regardless what you or anyone else chooses for their photo hardware.
Post your work. Ask for critique. Get a "tough skin" and accept criticism (and praise) for your shots. Keep shooting and keep posting. Enter a contest or two - on this board and others. Your camera is simply a tool and is only as good as your eye is.
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
Sure but DWIA isn't posting on here. So why push the S9500 so much out of curiosity?
Hello Mike,
I am not pushing anything.
I am simply posting links to my S9000 images.
I don't think you can find one word of mine knocking someone else's camera selection.
I spent $2,200 for a D30, $2,200 for a D60, both of which I still own, 2 55oEX EX flashes, ( which I use manually with my S9000 ) lenes, filters, tubes, etc., etc..
And I can take better pics from more vantage points & in lower light with my $599 Fuji S9000 than I can with my Canons or my Sony F-828.
Please check out my Zoom Test post, Part 3 & 4.
Thanks for the exchange of ideas,
Regards, Nicholas
I checked out your galleries. I found the noise levels here to be way too high (and here even more so because of the digital zoom). One of the things that DPreview mentioned is that the CCD has a fairly small dynamic range and that one has to expose very carefully not to clip the whites. An example of this is here. This one is fairly nice although I suspect that it is because there is more light to work with so you can be on a lower ISO setting as compared with your other gallery (but you don't have the EXIF so I can't know for sure). That shot still has some clipping that I wouldn't personally expect to have, and the dark areas are still quite noisy. It's kind of an unpleasant noise too - just kind of scattered black dots almost. I haven't seen anything quite like it before.
Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance.
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
Now here's what I'm talking about . . .
.....
I want to hear less about your camera and see more of your shots ........"
Thanks for your observations, BUT,
Isn't this the Camera Forum?
I thought I was in the right place, since my posts were intended to show the capabilities of the S9000, and not my photographic abilities.
Regards, Nicholas
Yes. But I think more people visit this forum to discuss cameras and not read about someone bragging about their camera. There's a fine line between showing excitemnet and going overboard with "Mine's the best."
The other thing, one which I am now fueling, is that you seem to love attention. We're giving it to you in this thread now. The whole, I'm taking my camera and leaving dgrin for good threat was pitiful.
I thought I was in the right place, since my posts were intended to show the capabilities of the S9000, and not my photographic abilities.
Regards, Nicholas
Dgrin is a community. And yes, this particular forum is for Cameras. Many folks love to discuss the particular capabilities of one camera and another. And there are people who feel strongly about camera types, and brands. One thing I'll say is, if you are going to make a post "hey look at how great my camera is at 12x" or some such (just an example)... then you have to be prepared for all comers - people who say "wow!" and people who say "mine's better" and people who say "ewwww - that's gross!" This is a free, public forum and we welcome all the types!
It's all good.
It's also a *very* lightly moderated forum. But in this case, I think this thread's gone on enough. I'll close it.
Anyone is free to start a fresh thread on any subject!
Comments
http://framebyframe.ca
[Bodies] Canon EOS 20D - Canon EOS 500
[Lenses] Sigma APO 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 - Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
[Flash] Sigma EF500 Super DG Flash
[Tripod] Manfrotto 055 Pro Black
[Head] 484RC2, 200RC2
I also wonder why I had no responses to my recent post "Revised Zoom Test" on my S9000.
The pics were shot from 28 mm to 600 mm (digital zoom ).
I hope this Zoom Test post did not offend any DSLR user.
It was not intended to.
Thank you again HarryB,
Regards, Nicholas
Cool test though.
http://framebyframe.ca
[Bodies] Canon EOS 20D - Canon EOS 500
[Lenses] Sigma APO 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 - Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
[Flash] Sigma EF500 Super DG Flash
[Tripod] Manfrotto 055 Pro Black
[Head] 484RC2, 200RC2
You post a 600mm shot that can beat a DSLR with a 600mm & i will be the 1st asking you how you did it & where can i buy the equip you are using. Sometimes posts just get washed to the kerb...everyone gets it. Sometimes its because those posters do not give any feedback to others & want the light on them selves all the time so people may ignor them (in no way am i saying this is the case but just pointing out reasons) It could be that it was posted at a particular time that people whom may have been interested were away at work or for the week-end & thus it is pushed back
In the end its about the pictures and not the gear. The "best" camera is the one that fits the individual. Last year I shoot at the St. Augustine Rookery with 4 other dgrinners. Three of us shot with DSLRs, one shot with a Panasonic Lumix, and one with the Sony 828. When we posted our pics you couldn't tell which camera took which shot.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
At least canon users dont carry blue dye in the gear bag to punch the water up a bit.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
"Kettle calling black" I'm glad you've never taken shots at a certain Canon user Mr. Moderator.
"Osprey Whisperer"
OspreyWhisperer.com
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
"prosecution rests."
"Osprey Whisperer"
OspreyWhisperer.com
What higher honor could I pay a pic than to think it was taken by a Nikon camera?
Seesh!!!! You try to be a nice guy and some folks just try to twist it around.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I have a very interesting perspective on this....
My first SLR was a Canon FT (all manual, not even Aperature priority or a winder). I purchased a couple of lenses and really got good with it.
Then I saw what winders could do and autoexposure with matrix style metering. I was going to purchase a Canon, but they switched lens mounts on me. What good would all my Canon lenses do me? This ticked me off, as Nikon never switched lens mounts.....
So I purchased an Nikon 8008s... and a couple of manual focus lens that worked on it!!! I really liked this camera, and achieved great results, but life got the better of me... I got sick of film and life got busy. I swore I would never convert to digital, but I started getting jealous of the ease and instant gratification....
So my (now) wife bought me a Canon S200. For those of you who don't know, this is a 2mp point and shoot with a 2x optical zoom. It fits in a shirt pocket and you can manually set the shutter speed (and a bunch of other settings). I fell in love all over again and the Nikon gathered dust for a couple of years. (though it is true, I was not taking that many *photographs*, just snapshots. But I still get some great shots and even got good at the shutter lag....
This brings me to (relatively) present. I knew I really wanted to sink my teeth in photography and I missed my SLR, so it was now time. Remember I had the Nikon lenses (though most manual focus). A good friend of mine that shot my wedding (a CPPA), has been shooting Canon digital for years (prior to that he was Minolta & Hasselblad film, Minolta for 35mm and Hasselblad for medium format). I borrowed a 10d and a couple of IS zooms from him and I was hooked. The camera just felt right. I picked up my 20D this summer and have been building my lens collection. I traded in all my Nikon equip. Once in a while, I am jealous of the Nikon shooter... they can still buy old (still GREAT) Nikon glass (albeit manual focus) for pennies on the dollar. I am talking about Nikor 300mm f2.8 for a couple of hundred dollars!!! Imagine the lenses we Canon owners could have??? I don't mind manual focus to this day. In fact, sometimes I still have to switch to it, in low light or to help me compose.
As for the Sony that started this whole thread.... no comment (as I have no experience).
Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes
Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
Doesn't replace my 10D and a 18-200 any day.
http://framebyframe.ca
[Bodies] Canon EOS 20D - Canon EOS 500
[Lenses] Sigma APO 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 - Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
[Flash] Sigma EF500 Super DG Flash
[Tripod] Manfrotto 055 Pro Black
[Head] 484RC2, 200RC2
"Osprey Whisperer"
OspreyWhisperer.com
Setup: One camera, one lens, and one roll of film.
(nevermind. I could have sworn I changed it to "It's not the camera, it's the photograph. It's not what you look at, it's what you see...")
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Hello All,
You DSLR guys are all over the place, off topic, which I am enjoying, with friendly kibitzing, but not on topic.
The following words were written to descibe the merits ( in DWIA's opinion) of the Fuji S9000 ( a/k/a/ Fuji S9500):
Fujifilm FinePix S9500 - Test conclusion
Kai Thon, DIWA's test manager comments: "The FinePix S9500 is a compact package that will solve most photographic challenges from virtually any photographer, professional and amateur alike. It is also very budget-friendly, considering the price of any 28-300 mm f/2.8-4.9 zoom lens with super macro capability as close as 1 cm, not to forget the well reputed Super CCD HR image sensor with 9 Mp resolution and many professional-like features. DIWA experts found the FinePix S9500 to be a perfect assembly of imaging essentials built into a user-friendly body at a very competitive price."
Have you ever read such glowing and detailed remarks about any prosumer digital camera?
Regards, Nicholas
Do you work for fuji or something? We give, the S9000/S9500 is an awesome camrea. I for one really hope you enjoy it! Feel free to post any pictures you take with it here on dgrin.
Sticking with my Canon 20D/17-85/50-500 Bigma
For now
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
You missed it.
You should ask if DWIA works for Fuji.
Regards, Nicholas
The thing is once my talents make it so I reach the limits of the camera's configuration, I wouldn't be able to change it like I can on a dSLR. I'd be stuck with the package I had. For my purposes dSLRs are so much more versatile and faster and easier on the batteries that I wouldn't give them up.
But there are without a doubt camera users out there for which the S9500 would fit the bill perfectly. I certainly would have liked it when I first started out. Just not anymore.
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
As you know, I've been supporting you on your enthusiasm about your camera BUT the truth is, YES - I have read glowing reports about most of the newest cameras. Many of the participants of this board also frequent dpreview.com and we appreciate Phil's detailed tests of digital cameras. Most of the new prosumer cameras are getting his "Highly Recommended" status. I might mention that the s9000/9500 received a lesser "Recommended" conclusion. Here's the link.
You like your Fuji, so do some others, others are less impressed - that's the way it is . . .
Let's move on. The off-topic parts of this threads were the more entertaining parts of the thread.
Comparing features and magazine & website reviews is really nothing more than a p*ssing contest. No one wins. We all know your opinion and it's a valid one but in reality no one really cares what you shoot with. I know Andy shoots with a Canon 5D (this week anyway,
Post your work. Ask for critique. Get a "tough skin" and accept criticism (and praise) for your shots. Keep shooting and keep posting. Enter a contest or two - on this board and others. Your camera is simply a tool and is only as good as your eye is.
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
http://nickphoto123.smugmug.com/gallery/893565/1/40518035/Large
I want to hear less about your camera and see more of your shots like this one. A pretty interesting shot.
And I like the "magic light" on this shot:
http://nickphoto123.smugmug.com/gallery/854244/1/38430509/Large
Do you live near the Flushing Meadows park. It looks like you like to shoot there. Good ideas.
Here's another one that caught my eye from your site:
http://nickphoto123.smugmug.com/gallery/918224/1/41893121/Large
The indoor church shots are a little noisy, though. Not sure what your ISO was.
.
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
Dgrin is a community. And yes, this particular forum is for Cameras. Many folks love to discuss the particular capabilities of one camera and another. And there are people who feel strongly about camera types, and brands. One thing I'll say is, if you are going to make a post "hey look at how great my camera is at 12x" or some such (just an example)... then you have to be prepared for all comers - people who say "wow!" and people who say "mine's better" and people who say "ewwww - that's gross!" This is a free, public forum and we welcome all the types!
It's all good.
It's also a *very* lightly moderated forum. But in this case, I think this thread's gone on enough. I'll close it.
Anyone is free to start a fresh thread on any subject!
All the best,
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