Ticked me off

Harryb

Hi y'all,

A few days ago I was in my local camera store checking out the used lenses that were for sale. While I was browsing I got into a conversation with another photographer. When I responded to his question about what I usually shot he got that expression you usually get when you tell someone that you are a serial killer.



He told me that he didn’t understand why I would be shooting birds when I could be doing some “real photography” such as portraits or landscapes. I just replied that when I grew up I would have to try my hand at some “real photography”.



I just don’t understand this attitude. I don’t knock those doing other kinds of photography. Heck except for the past year I did mostly street photography in NYC. I can understand how some others don’t enjoy wildlife shooting as much as I do but I don’t understand their need to denigrate it.



I know that it takes real skill to do portraits and landscapes but shooting wildlife requires those same skills and then some. If I’m shooting a portrait I’m working with a cooperative model under controlled circumstances. If I’m shooting a landscape I can do multiple exposures and layer them so I can take one shot for highlights, one for midtones and another for shadows. If the light is not right I can come back later in the day when the light is better and that mountain is still going to be there.



Now when I shoot wildlife I have to be able to approach a highly uncooperative subject who is liable to take off if I get too close or make the wrong noise. I have to deal with difficult exposures such as a bald eagle with a white head and dark body. I don’t have the luxury of bracketing my shots because that eagle is not standing still like a landscape. I have to be able to expose an all white egret against a much darker background. If you think taking a shoot of a baby is difficult try taking a BIF shot of a Least Tern or a Kingfisher. In addition to those challenges I have to deal with fire ants, mosquittos, no-see-ums, snakes and gators. Wildlife photography has been the most challenging photography I have tried so far.



Basically what I want to say is that if you don’t like my subjects stuff it in your ear. I don’t want to hear about it.

Jnichols

Rightly so! I would have been rather ticked myself!!! I've been trying my hand at various areas of photography - mainly sticking to portrait; however, I do not believe that other areas of photography rank less than what I am interested in. IN FACT, I must admit - I have tried to capture some birds in Birmingham, but I am not quite there - they end up too soft or OOF. Wildlife won't "pose" for me - so for now, I will continue to "practice" taking wildlife pictures... and maybe, just maybe, I'll take one that looks as good as those I see on this forum!

GREAPER

I would have probably laughed in his face.

I do landscapes, I shoot portraits.

But my love and passion is for wildlife. I also think it is one of the hardest. Super high contrast subjects, that are usually in motion in low light, with long glass. And they run/fly away if frightened in the slightest way.

Dont let the pin head get ya riled Harry.

Your subjects are fantastic.

bfjr

Here Here Harry!!

My love for all of photography is stronger then ever, but my passion for wildlife shooting goes straight to my core.

Skippy

You Know What Harry........
If we went through life worrying about what other people thought of what we said, did, wore or brought......... we'd all be in trouble.

I'm like you Harry I could care less what people think of me, what they see is what they get, I like bugs.......and yep that's usually not something females are into, I also don't mind playing in the dirt either, or getting mud on me

Shooting Birds Animals and Insects is extremely difficult, and as you said the subjects are rarely co-operative, and will take off at the slightest noise, or detection of motion.......light most of the time is not on our side, nor the weather we take what we can get under the circumstances.

What matters to me is that I am happy with what I shoot, and Harry you are a fantastic Bird Photographer, and I admire your work.

I always try and do better, and I know I fail to understand a lot about photograph but that's okay too, I have trying to get my shots

Take Care Harry.........don't be so hard on yourself, there's too many birds out there waiting to get their portraits taken Skippy (Australia)

jwear

wildlife is hard --if I can take 50 shots of a landscape one will be good I only have a moment and one shot to get exposer AND comp. in a hawk flying at me --I also have to overcome the absolute AWE AND JOY OF THAT MOMENT. only folks like that share their great opinions but it does bring to mind another good use of a monopod --I also do not think Harry is worried about his subjects or his art only the stupidity of the I will not say but if you look at the hits on wildlife and then any other forum ---well that says it all . next time Harry have them call me --if you learn how to get exposer right on bifs then the other stuff gets easier . Just think if you shoot a stuffed bird in a room that may be easier I do not know never tried and Harry next time tell him to stop by and comment

ScottMcLeod

Dance and theatre photography falls into the same category as wildlife in my opinion.

For shows that i'm not working on, rarely do I get any chance ahead of time to know what is about to happen, maybe a short chat w/ the choreographer/director.

It's an extreme challenge to get those "great shots", and I often feel like everything is out of my control, and i'm always pushing the limits of my equipment (forcing me to use 1.8 lenses, 1600ISO, pushing my shots by 1 or 2 stops, etc...)

Anyone can sit around in a studio and learn how to make lights and models get perfect exposures.

Put a photographer into a situation with challenging subjects where s/he only has control over the camera, and then we seperate the "men from the mice."

(sorry about the sexism... I tried.)

Harryb

Jnichols wrote:

Rightly so! I would have been rather ticked myself!!! I've been trying my hand at various areas of photography - mainly sticking to portrait; however, I do not believe that other areas of photography rank less than what I am interested in. IN FACT, I must admit - I have tried to capture some birds in Birmingham, but I am not quite there - they end up too soft or OOF. Wildlife won't "pose" for me - so for now, I will continue to "practice" taking wildlife pictures... and maybe, just maybe, I'll take one that looks as good as those I see on this forum!

Thanks for the response Jen. I just don't get why some have to be so negative about the work of others. To capture any kind of effective shot is an indication of the shooter's skills irregardless of the subject matter.

ian408

I've gotten similar comments when asked about shooting surfers. Fortunately,
I add "and birds" and it's all good for them. I'm with you Harry. Why should
they even care?

So you didn't answer the question. What'ya lookin' at?

Ian

ginger_55

yeah, I agree!

Negative people are saying more about themselves than they are about the people/subjects they are negative about.

It is just difficult to "accept" that fact when it is "us" they just "attacked", IMO.

ginger (Speaking of wildlife, hope I got some moving people/children today. Candids/snapshots. Whew, just a momentary lapse from the serious "real" stuff, I guess.)

And I don't know about the rest, well, I do, mostly, when I shoot birds, I am doing a landscape with, as you pointed out Harry, another element. The guy ain't shot birds, or not well, IMO.

coldclimb

all I know is I've never even shot a HALFWAY decent BIF.

John Mueller

Yeah,but Harry,you make it look so easy
My reply "Moron"

pathfinder

Harry, I'd have just smiled at the gentleman kindly, and said "I'm so sorry for you..." and turned around, and concluded the conversation.

There are always few folks who need to feel superior for some reason. My advice is to let them feel that way, encourage them, and then laugh all the way home at their foolishness

Thusie

Geez People Stuff like that almost makes me wonder if he didn't try to shoot birds/wildlife and just didn't/coudn't make it work. Human nature being what it is, folks often rag on things they don't do well, if they can make it work then it isn't worth doing.

The shots on Dgrin, no matter the subject, are just wonderful, too many to comment on actually:D Great insperation to try eveything! Is one type of shot harder to get than another? Nope, they all take talent and skill!

Harry, sorry you ran into such a shallow person, not worth your time or anger.

To all of you Dgrinners..Three Cheers to your diversityclapclap

Sam

Harry,

Vent all you like, it's good for you, but don't worry about it. You don't need to justify anything. There will always be those who not only don't understand another's passion (which is normal), but for some unknown reason want to denigrate them for it, which is not normal.

I admit I don't have a passion for bird photography, but that doesn't mean I don't marvel and enjoy the great bird photos you and others post. I will also try when the opportunity presents it's self to photograph them. I have actually progressed to the point where most people can tell that it's a bird and not a smudge on the photo. My next goal is to get the photos good enough where you can determine what kind of bird!

I don't think there is much you can say to enlighten those who have been inflicted with a total inability to see anything but there own limited view point.

It's kinda like when someone sees one photo out of 100 I have taken and say, " boy you sure do have a great camera." I don't get mad, I simply say thank you. Of course they aren't trying to be nasty in any way like you guy.

You could ask him about his large format camera for his landscape work. What! he doesn't have a large format! Everybody knows that if you a real landscape photographer you only use a large format!

Sam

Osprey Whisperer

Wild Life Photography is for BIRD BRAINS.

:uhoh

Don't listen to 'em , Harry. Just invite them to an alligator shoot next time and don't forget the A-1 sauce and your running shoes.

I think I'd rather take my chances with an angry 'gaitor or bear than a bride and her bridesmaids. I've noticed birds don't complain...either. :uhoh

Tell them landscapers to kiss your tailfeathers.

ChrisJ

coldclimb wrote:

all I know is I've never even shot a HALFWAY decent BIF.

I don't like to shoot birds because I find it frustrating getting 10-20 blurry images. I'm really happy when I get a shot of a slowly moving or stationary one.



People tend to criticize what they don't know or can't do themselves.

I just try to appreciate others work and keep saving up for that bigger lens!

Harryb

GREAPER wrote:

I would have probably laughed in his face.

I do landscapes, I shoot portraits.

But my love and passion is for wildlife. I also think it is one of the hardest. Super high contrast subjects, that are usually in motion in low light, with long glass. And they run/fly away if frightened in the slightest way.

Dont let the pin head get ya riled Harry.

Your subjects are fantastic.

Thanks Brian. He wasn't all that bad just the final straw that led to my rant.

Rohirrim

As with most things I think the old saying "To each his own" is a good one.

Stormdancing

Such a narrow minded person. When you look at the world through your camera, it's all art. Too bad he just can't see it.

Harryb

Skippy wrote:

If we went through life worrying about what other people thought of what we said, did, wore or brought......... we'd all be in trouble.

I'm like you Harry I could care less what people think of me, what they see is what they get, I like bugs.......and yep that's usually not something females are into, I also don't mind playing in the dirt either, or getting mud on me

Shooting Birds Animals and Insects is extremely difficult, and as you said the subjects are rarely co-operative, and will take off at the slightest noise, or detection of motion.......light most of the time is not on our side, nor the weather we take what we can get under the circumstances.

What matters to me is that I am happy with what I shoot, and Harry you are a fantastic Bird Photographer, and I admire your work.

I always try and do better, and I know I fail to understand a lot about photograph but that's okay too, I have trying to get my shots

Take Care Harry.........don't be so hard on yourself, there's too many birds out there waiting to get their portraits taken Skippy (Australia)

Thanks Skippy. That fool didn't make me doubt my own work just his lack of perspective. It just burns my butt when some alleged photographer can't acknowledge the work of others just because he doesn't do that type of shooting himself.

rutt

When someone says, "I don't like jazz, only classical music." Or, "I only like rock music." Or whatever. Or the people who don't like abstract art. Or don't read poetry.

Ignorance is fine. We all have our limits. There is only so much we can learn in one lifetime. But it's not actually anything to be proud of.

Suppose he'd said, "bird photography, sounds interesting, don't know anything about it. I'm much more interested in portraits just now." That would have been fine, right? It's just assuming that his ignorance was the correct attitude.

BTW, I know that wildlife and birding shots in particular are very hard. IMHO, sports shooting can be as challenging as anything. Jeez, baseball. You sit there for 3 hours and there are exactly 3 or so times when you can get the shot if you happen to be in the right place and have the reflexes.

When people pose, it's one thing. But lots of the best people shots aren't posed and there is no reshoot possible. Haul out your Cartier-Bresson books.

Dixie

Hey Harry, when I get down there next week I'll beat him up for you. :

I'm still planning on arriving late afternoon or early evening next Sunday. I'll be leaving early AM and driving from just north of Winston-Salem, NC straight through.

rutt

rutt wrote:

When people pose, it's one thing. But lots of the best people shots aren't posed and there is no reshoot possible. Haul out your Cartier-Bresson books.

Or how about those beautiful women Yuri gets to pose just so for him? Think you can do that? I know I can't. I've tried.

Or Karsh. You must know the famous portrait of Winston Churchill glowering his defiance at the camera. You look at it and you think, "We'll fight them on the beaches... We'll never surrender." Know how he got that shot? He pulled Winston's cigar out of his mouth and hit the shutter. What kind of insight into people and photography does it take to think of that?

[Edit: Robert Frost said it better. See following post.]

rutt

Man, once I get the wind in my sails I can't be stopped (not even by myself.)

I realized that a great poet said what I meant so well that I just have to post his poem:

Robert Frost wrote:

A Minor Bird

I have wished a bird would fly away,
And not sing by my house all day;

Have clapped my hands at him from the door
When it seemed as if I could bear no more.

The fault must partly have been in me.
The bird was not to blame for his key.

And of course there must be something wrong
In wanting to silence any song.

StevenV

rutt wrote:

Ignorance is fine. We all have our limits. There is only so much we can learn in one lifetime. But it's not actually anything to be proud of.

Very well said, John.

I haven't even tried to get a decent bird shot, but I love to look at 'em here. My subjects (sports) don't sit still very much either and I know how tough they are - and they're constrained to a given time & area. You fine folks who can get good shots of wildlife, completely unconstrained as it is, always impress me.

MattGoins

Real photography to me is taking pictures of subjects you find fascinating, and want to share that fascination with others.

Shakey

All kinda folks in this world Harry. And if your work is not considered "real"by this ignorant person you had the misfortune of striking up a conversation with, I wonder what my photography would be to him ... paranormal or fantasy hehehe . Or maybe this guy was just yanking your chain and wanted to get a reaction from you.

Tim

rutt

MattGoins wrote:

Real photography to me is taking pictures of subjects you find fascinating, and want to share that fascination with others.

And sometimes photography is a way to find that fascination. Things which seemed very ordinary or not particularly interesting can become fascinating to me through the viewfinder. Think of Penn's cigarette butts. Recently, I got a chance to shoot some dress rehersals for the Nutcracker ballet. Doing that really changed and deepened my appreciation for what was going on there.

theroo

Love your stuff
Shoot what you like, Let him be a butt some folks just like to run their mouth.

Photosbychuck

I agree with theroo!
I love your photos Harry and hope to learn more from you.
I compare my photos of wildlife to yours and try to improve next time
I do a shoot. I was at a small local lake in Asheville,NC. trying to get a photo of a blue heron () I seen it as I was driving by. I was walking slow so, I would not make him fly off. Other people walking around the lake got within eight feet of him. I was still probably 65 yards from him. He jumped up and flew across to the other side of the lake. I got one shot of him as he flew across the lake. So, I don't know how you get so, many Great photos of Herons. You must have some good tips to tell us newbies about. You could wright a book if, you wanted.

Keep up the good work!
Fan of your work in North Carolina.
Chuck