Paypal Integration / Self fulfilment

TalkieT

Your current shopping cart is ill suited to self fulfilment or currencies outside the few you support. Many users have integrated Paypal solutions that work well but the removal of Javascript have rendered that option unusable under New Smugmug.

We need a self fulfilment and Paypal integration option included unless Javascript will be allowed.

Regards
Neil Gardner

MomaZunk

I agree with this issue. We need self fulfillment. I currently use paypal in my galleries to allow self fulfillment. If I cannot do this on smugmug, I will have to go elsewhere.

southeasternphotography

Agreed

rich56k

TalkieT wrote: »

Your current shopping cart is ill suited to self fulfilment or currencies outside the few you support. Many users have integrated Paypal solutions that work well but the removal of Javascript have rendered that option unusable under New Smugmug.

We need a self fulfilment and Paypal integration option included unless Javascript will be allowed.

Regards
Neil Gardner

:help

Matthew Saville

....but the removal of Javascript have rendered that option unusable....

Not entirely true...

I would just like to point out that ALMOST ALL Paypal functionality still works great, because it's HTML-based. You can create Paypal buttons with custom fields, drop-down menus, etc. all with HTML. I just checked my "payments" page on SmugMug and everything is working fine! For years I have been using blank SmugMug pages to accept wedding retainer fees, album payments, workshop tuition etc and I don't see anything changing for this functionality in the future.

So, Neil, I think it would really help the folks at SmugMug if you could lay out a few specific details about what you would like to do with Javascript to enhance your sales options.

I do agree that it'd be awesome if we could use SmugMug similarly to how Pictage / ShootQ allow pros to accept any sort of payment, for a relatively standard CC processing fee. (1.5%, I think it is? A pretty common fee for CC processing, similar to Paypal. Either way my point is that it's not 15%. ;-)

However, I honestly am fine with continuing to use Paypal via HTML; it's fantastic to have funds instantly accessible in my Paypal business debit card, compared to waiting till the end of the month for my SmugMug payments.

Speaking candidly, I believe the reason SmugMug has hesitated to offer such a feature in the past is because they love their quality control guarantee. If a customer buys a print and something goes wrong, half the time they email help@smugmug instead of the actual photog, and that customer support cuts into SmugMug's overhead. Allowing pros to sell any random product they want could cause a huge spike in SmugMug's customer support queries. So they simply have to ask themselves, is it worth the added cost of support to offer this feature? I think so; even just 1.5% of the volume in retainers and payments that the average full-time pro needs to transact would be hundreds / thousands of dollars per user per year for SmugMug...

=Matt=

TalkieT

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Not entirely true...

I would just like to point out that ALMOST ALL Paypal functionality still works great, because it's HTML-based.

[snip]

So, Neil, I think it would really help the folks at SmugMug if you could lay out a few specific details about what you would like to do with Javascript to enhance your sales options.
[snip]

So it works for you, but it's utterly unusable for an event photographer where there could be heaps of sales in a short time, each of which is made up of multiple images.

I accept (and I have already mocked up in the new SM) that I can make Paypal with static information work... However for my use case it's pointless... Unless I can have a unique identifier in the email to me, it's NOT GOING TO WORK.

I have told SM this, in both posts here and in a dialog with the helpdesk people - going as far as including the specific Javascript I currently use to create the filename for the the paypal request. Their response has been basically "Javascript isn't supported" yet claim in the next breath that Paypal would work fine.

A static Paypal button that gives no reference as to what the person bought is just useless. If your use case doesn't mirror that experience, please don't diminish how important it is to me.

Cheers - N

Matthew Saville

TalkieT wrote: »

A static Paypal button that gives no reference as to what the person bought is just useless. If your use case doesn't mirror that experience, please don't diminish how important it is to me.

Cheers - N

Unfortunately I am still unclear about exactly what you're trying to do. Maybe SmugMug web-workers understand what "a unique identifier in the email to me" means, but I have no clue.

I certainly did NOT write my response to diminish how important it is to you! Why on earth would I spend my time doing that? I posted my response because I'm betting that MOST SmugMug users out there use Paypal buttons in very simple ways that don't require Javascript, so I just didn't think it was right for EVERYONE to blindly assume that Paypal is now completely impossible to implement on SmugMug, as you were implying due to the ambiguity of your original request. That is simply misleading.

Again, what is your specific situation that requires Javascript? I'm sure it is totally valid. But what is the "unique identifier" that you're trying to get? With just HTML you can create fields for your customers to type in a note or something, and/or drop-down menus for different items, etc. etc.

TalkieT

Matthew Saville wrote: »

[snip]
Again, what is your specific situation that requires Javascript? I'm sure it is totally valid. But what is the "unique identifier" that you're trying to get? With just HTML you can create fields for your customers to type in a note or something, and/or drop-down menus for different items, etc. etc.

Without Javascript, orders cannot automatically have the image name, URL or filename attached to the order. I would have to rely on users typing in the correct unique identifier each time, for each image.

The way I have it at the moment, there is a paypal option under each photo. When the user clicks on buy, or add to cart, some Javascript code

function setPaypalForm(form) {
urlToImage = webServer + "/gallery/" + AlbumID + "_" + AlbumKey + "/1/" +
ImageID + "_" + ImageKey + " " + photoInfo[ImageID] ;
form.item_name.value = urlToImage;
}

crafts a URL and puts it into the Smugmug order, so when I get an email confirming an order, it looks like this...

Hello Neil Gardner,
You received a payment of $15.00 NZD from (redacted@hotmail.com).
To see all the transaction details, please log into your PayPal account. It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.
Buyer information
redacted
redacted@hotmail.com
Instructions from buyer
None provided
Description Unit price Qty Amount
http://www.nzsnaps.com/gallery/28452884_5jVT4g/1/2410207123_QhVcqjp 20130316_144256_NZ4_6389
$15.00 NZD 1 $15.00 NZD

Total: $15.00 NZD
Receipt No: redacted-2484-1132
Please keep this number for future reference, as your customer doesn't have a PayPal Transaction ID for this payment.

That there gives me a single email with a confirmed URL to the image they purchased, and filename.

Without Javascript I cannot do that and I definitely do not trust my users to identify and type in the right filename/URL etc. I have had people try to order over email with things like "It's the first one in the saturday gallery with a blue bike but you can't see the number".

I have highlighted in red above the unique identifiers that currently are automatically populated into the Paypal emails that are sent to me. Imagine that email without a link to the photo that the person bought, or without the filename. Asking the person to fill that in manually may be a technically available option but it is not a reliable, sensible or professional approach.

Cheers - N

Matthew Saville

TalkieT wrote: »

Without Javascript, orders cannot automatically have the image name, URL or filename attached to the order. I would have to rely on users typing in the correct unique identifier each time, for each image.

The way I have it at the moment, there is a paypal option under each photo. When the user clicks on buy, or add to cart, some Javascript code



crafts a URL and puts it into the Smugmug order, so when I get an email confirming an order, it looks like this...



That there gives me a single email with a confirmed URL to the image they purchased, and filename.

Without Javascript I cannot do that and I definitely do not trust my users to identify and type in the right filename/URL etc. I have had people try to order over email with things like "It's the first one in the saturday gallery with a blue bike but you can't see the number".

I have highlighted in red above the unique identifiers that currently are automatically populated into the Paypal emails that are sent to me. Imagine that email without a link to the photo that the person bought, or without the filename. Asking the person to fill that in manually may be a technically available option but it is not a reliable, sensible or professional approach.

Cheers - N

, sneaky! Basically you set up an entire piggyback shopping cart system to avoid paying SmugMug any commission. It was silly of me to only think of using Paypal to sell items that SmugMug doesn't offer. So really you don't need Javascript, you don't need Paypal, you just want SmugMug to offer a 0% commission self-fulfillment option.

Okay, sarcasm aside, like I said I do see the value in having your $$ go straight to your Paypal account, especially if you have a PP biz debit card like I do, it's awesome! And hey, if you want to self-fulfill your orders, you deserve to keep all your %% right? Honestly even though I think it's slightly mischievous, I get it. Unfortunately, now that I understand what you're trying to do, I understand why SmugMug may not prioritize this. I'm thinking that your best bet is simply a 0% commission self-fulfillment pro option. (Or, as a compromise, a ~1.5% commission option as a general CC processing fee)

But who knows, maybe before they kill the legacy site they'll figure out how to implement Javascript in the new site. I believe that they made it pretty clear that if it were at all possible they'd have done it already, but at present they simply haven't found a way to do it.

=Matt=

TalkieT

No it's not sneaky. For years before I implemented I was begging them to support NZD or paypal officially, and I was happy to pay a cut to them. Only after years of ignoring the request did I go ahead and implement something myself.

I'd still be happy if SM was to integrate Paypal for digital downloads and I'd happily use it. I would even be happy if they put NZD into their awful shopping cart solution - well not happy, but I could live with it.

But if there's anything I'm sure of, Smugmug don't really care about international pros and feature developments are glacial. The only hope for me is if they promise to keep their legacy infrastructure up until their capabilities catch up with the major javascript functionality hacks.

Cheers - N

Tim Kamppinen

Matthew Saville wrote: »

So really you don't need Javascript, you don't need Paypal, you just want SmugMug to offer a 0% commission self-fulfillment option.

Yeah, how crazy is that? I mean, it's not like it's the #2 most requested feature or anything (http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug)... it's not as if Zenfolio has already offered that exact option for a long time now...

Oh wait, it is, and they have. I guess that's why I'm switching to Zenfolio.

And it's not even the commission. I was happy paying 15%, but since smugmug can't get their act together with selling and marking up mounted prints (no, I'm not going to leave it up to the client to decide whether they want to spring for the extra $25 for mounting on a 20x30 print), self fulfillment has become necessary for me if I want to be able to offer a full range of products to my portrait clients in their post-sale ordering gallery.

infophobal

Image Selection and Client only login
The NEW SM, it looks fantastic. An element i'd love to see integrated would be client login where they have there own account for proofing, selecting and requesting changes/adjustments. Where they can't see anything but their own gallery, along with the ability to purchase via paypal.

I know there are other sites with this functionality already, but its another account cost for us and site another i have to send my customers, whereas i already have a fantastic site with SM.

If we could see this option implemented it would vastly open up some work flow and ability for us.

mbonocore

Customization with Javascript on New SmugMug is something we are planning on. It is an active project, however it is a very tricky project. Executing it responsibly presents difficult challenges that we haven't solved yet. But we are taking feedback from our customers as to what exactly they are using JS for, so we can build the tools you need most.

We know all about Self Fulfillment and The PayPal option in JS, not HTML. So we have this on our list.

TalkieT

mbonocore wrote: »

Customization with Javascript on New SmugMug is something we are planning on. It is an active project, however it is a very tricky project. Executing it responsibly presents difficult challenges that we haven't solved yet. But we are taking feedback from our customers as to what exactly they are using JS for, so we can build the tools you need most.

We know all about Self Fulfillment and The PayPal option in JS, not HTML. So we have this on our list.

This is the most encouraging post I have read on Dgrin as relates to a new feature or development in over 7 years.

Thanks for making this post. What would completely put me at ease (as I have written elsewhere) is if there could be a commitment to keep the legacy site up until the Javascript solution is usable in New Smugmug...

Cheers - N

TalkieT

@mbonocore or others, how about giving some feedback on which of these feature requests have been accepted - especially when they are for restoring functionality lost compared to Old Smugmug. Perhaps something like changing the title of the thread to reflect status - like...

"Accepted: Due before Old SM retirement: Paypal Integration / Self fulfilment"

At the moment, despite some general positive comments about javascript and paypal, I have no idea if the functionality will be available in the next 24 months or longer than that.

Cheers - N

TalkieT

I see the Wufoo form delivered as a content block. Great. That's one thing on my site that should now work in New SM.

Please, how about an update on Paypal and Self fulfilment?

Cheers - N

TalkieT

Bump

jfiler

I got the new Wufoo block working best that it can but entering of the photo/filename is still required. This is not self-fulfillment.

Zenfolio offers self fulfillment at a 4% fee in their $120 per year plan and at no charge in their $250 per year plan. So, Smugmug, there it is. Just match the competition and all is good. If they figured out how to do it, no reason you can't also.

Joe Filer
www.photographsbynature.com

ScottBuckel

There are many reasons to do self fulfillment, particularly for those of that print our own photos and/or use local pro labs.

Please, take this request seriously!

southeasternphotography

+1 fulfillment and +1 PayPal with data to know what they bought.

On a side note, I know that SM is working with a "few" sites to use javascript. Reading in this thread I see that SM intends to bring back "some" javascript to us all. GREAT! And NOT SO GREAT. Now that TONS of us are spending countless hours getting our New Sites somewhat close to our legacy systems without javascript, we will have wasted tons of time when it comes back. Then we have to undo lots of stuff and rewrite javascript to give us the better site we used to have. Considering how many people used javascript, that should have been a prime function to have in the New Code BEFORE this New implementation. Gripe, gripe, gripe. At least there is a future for javascript. Everyone who still has a legacy site better use the method to have all your code emailed to you. By the time javascript is added back, your legacy system may be long gone!

As to javascript implementations that we want in the new system, this should be pretty easy. There are only a handful of javascript writers here and I know the Hero's know who they are. Go look at their code and what it is accomplishing. These guys didn't write that stuff just for kicks. Perhaps there is a way for you guys to have a program "look" at our code sites and report back how many are using javascript. People like JFriend usually have their name in a text block. Search for those to see what is being used. I don't like it that maybe just the "most used" code may be allowed. You have taken functionality away - please bring it back so we can customize our sites the way WE want to, not just like SOME have done. Don't mean to hijack this thread, but the Hero asked what we want in javascript here! Hope this all makes sense.

Oh yeah, FULFILLMENT and PAYPAL. Some of us are professionals and need WHATEVER professional solutions that the rest of the world uses to work for OUR clients. We are already paying SM $300 for the privilege.

Not mentioning the competitor's name, we might have thought in the NEW SM, their new functionality would have been brought into the new release - guess not....will be waiting......

southeasternphotography

On PayPal - not just for fulfillment. Have a place where people can click to get to paypal for people to send you bucks for enjoying your site so you can continue to provide images and maintain our site. Like Ken Rockwell's (Nikon review guy) site that provides him a living this way!

TalkieT

Just an update bump? Any news on this SMugmug? No? Thought not.

Cheers - N

southeasternphotography

southeasternphotography wrote: »

On PayPal - not just for fulfillment. Have a place where people can click to get to paypal for people to send you bucks for enjoying your site so you can continue to provide images and maintain our site. Like Ken Rockwell's (Nikon review guy) site that provides him a living this way!

Someone told me we can do my request now in an html block and the code you get from Paypal.

TalkieT

southeasternphotography wrote: »

Someone told me we can do my request now in an html block and the code you get from Paypal.

You can do that if you don't need to get any unique information about the purchase. If however you want the filename of the image someone buys to be passed, it's no longer possible to do that with Smugmug.

So setting up a "$10 donation" link is fine... Setting up a "Buy this photo for $10" is not possible.

Cheers - N

southeasternphotography

And that's the truth! I'm voting for them getting the Fulfillment going!

TalkieT

Hi again Smugmug - any update on this? You keep telling us how quickly you can put new features in now - but you haven't even acknowledged that ANY solution for Paypal or self fulfilment will be included in new Smugmug.

COME ON!

Cheers - N

MomaZunk

Just a quick point on Self Fulllfillment.
I do Team and Individual photos with special packages that are full-filled by labs other than the SM labs. I need a solution to this issue in the next couple of months, which right now I am building a separate webpage and site just for this option. Once that site is built because smugmug will not meet my needs, I may just migrate everything to that on my next renewal, which is next July. I need the photo and gallery info passed via javascript to allow me to full fill these orders. Its just that simple.

thenickdude

I am working on a solution for this issue which I hope to release within the next week.

MomaZunk

Lamah wrote: »

I am working on a solution for this issue which I hope to release within the next week.

I am looking forward to it.

TalkieT

Lamah wrote: »

I am working on a solution for this issue which I hope to release within the next week.

Exciting... Waiting enthusiastically... It's not some form of redirect to an external site using the referrer to then construct the Paypal form is it?

Cheers - N

thenickdude

No, but only because browsers don't supply a referrer reliably enough to achieve that. This solution doesn't require my server to be online!