WTF Nikon?

IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
edited December 1, 2013 in Cameras
Seriously, what is the matter with the decision makers at Nikon? Or is it that every Nikon shooter I personally know is just out to lunch? They spend gazillions on launching a new camera that nobody I know was asking for (the Df) and keep spitting out entry level yawners. BUT the body many, many of us have been salivating in anticipation for (D400) appears nowhere on the horizon. I finally broke down and bought a D7100 to have a DX body with better low light performance than my D300, and am thoroughly disappointed in it.

Maybe I (and everybody I know) am out of touch, but I just don't think they have a clue what will sell. I'm betting the Df won't. :dunno
John :
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
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Comments

  • David_S85David_S85 Administrators Posts: 13,245 moderator
    edited November 8, 2013
    Yet they have the D800 and E version, which kicks the competition's butt thoroughly. Go figure.
    My Smugmug
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2013
    I think its clear at this point that Nikon is going FF at this point. Once I shot with the D3 and D3s and saw the IQ I dropped my DF body and went FF all the way. As for the DF its a camera I would love to get but I just don't have the need for it. There will be an audience for it and while I think it won't set any records it should do OK. Its geared towards old farts like myself and us old farts have the disposable income to buy gear that we want but don't really need.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2013
    David_S85 wrote: »
    Yet they have the D800 and E version, which kicks the competition's butt thoroughly. Go figure.

    Pssh, not for sports. 5D3 FTW.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • ZerodogZerodog Registered Users Posts: 1,480 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2013
    The 5d3 is what I thought the 800 was going to be. That thing is an updated 700
  • Brett1000Brett1000 Registered Users Posts: 819 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2013
    Icebear wrote: »
    Seriously, what is the matter with the decision makers at Nikon? Or is it that every Nikon shooter I personally know is just out to lunch? They spend gazillions on launching a new camera that nobody I know was asking for (the Df) and keep spitting out entry level yawners.

    Maybe I (and everybody I know) am out of touch, but I just don't think they have a clue what will sell. I'm betting the Df won't. ne_nau.gif

    yes, they are clueless. Nikon and Canon stock has falling dramatically this year
    today's Wall Street Journal
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304672404579183643696236868
  • RobertRobert Registered Users Posts: 148 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2013
    Icebear wrote: »
    Maybe I (and everybody I know) am out of touch, but I just don't think they have a clue what will sell. I'm betting the Df won't.
    Harryb wrote: »
    There will be an audience for it and while I think it won't set any records it should do OK. Its geared towards old farts like myself and us old farts have the disposable income to buy gear that we want but don't really need.

    I'm an old fart, too, but I love new technology (when it works). I think the DF and any of those replica looks are for the 'Yuppie' market, or whatever you call them nowadays.
    Robert
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2013
    Icebear, it is as simple as this: If you want to be a Nikon user, you're going to have to put up with a little bit of historic pride every now and then. Get used to it! I'm actually quite surprised that they didn't make it gold-plated and lizard skinned, to be honest. (google it)

    Part of the reason that MANY people shoot Nikon is their affection for the traditions of photography in general. Using ancient lenses on modern cameras, just for fun. I don't know about you but I have always owned at least one or two AIS lenses that I have used regularly on my various Nikon bodies, just for fun. So personally, I'm ecstatic that Nikon has given us a simple FF DSLR with classic styling.

    This is, in short, a camera for collectors and nostalgic hobbyists with money to spend. That may not be 95% of Nikon's regular mainstream customers, but they know that.

    Other cameras will come. I too am pissed that we haven't seen a D400 yet. I'll be even more pissed if the D7100 turns out to be the D400, permanently. But the DF, to me, doesn't weigh into that equation at all. To me, the DF is a long-overdue homage to their rich history and their dedication to a single lens mount. :-)

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2013
    Robert wrote: »
    I'm an old fart, too, but I love new technology (when it works). I think the DF and any of those replica looks are for the 'Yuppie' market, or whatever you call them nowadays.

    I've seen this statement being made very often online, and I don't understand how anybody, especially a middle-age or older adult, can claim this. Nikon isn't pandering to a recent hipster retro trend. They're proudly proclaiming, "Um, hello, we've been doing this mount for 50+ years, and we'd like to celebrate that rich history."

    Honestly, if they wanted to attract hipsters, they would have made a far cheaper camera with the construction quality of a Holga; and a whole new mount that only accepts lensbabies. ;-)

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2013
    Pssh, not for sports. 5D3 FTW.

    Yes, the 5D mk3 is currently the champion of versatility, from weddings to wildlife. It has the AF system and resolution that I wish the D700 had.

    HOWEVER, the D800 is still the hands-down champion of landscapes, adventures, and anything else where that kind of specialization is better than being well-rounded and speedy. In other words, sure the D800 is a bit more sluggish and the 5D mk3 has off-center cross-type AF points, but other than that I'd rather have a Nikon these days for the insane image quality coming from all three of their "ranges" of cameras.

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • lifeinfocuslifeinfocus Registered Users Posts: 1,461 Major grins
    edited November 10, 2013
    I have been wondering what it would be like again to use a camera with mechanical controls. Would it make it easier to make quick adjustments? That may be asset of the DF that I had not considered. I think they should have given it two card slots because with that ISO range it could at least be an entry level or better events camera.

    Thoughts?
    Phil
    http://www.PhilsImaging.com
    "You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
    Phil
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited November 11, 2013
    Harryb wrote: »
    and us old farts have the disposable income to buy gear that we want but don't really need.

    Right. That's why you should instead sign up for another workshop :rutt
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited November 11, 2013
    Yes, the 5D mk3 is currently the champion of versatility, from weddings to wildlife. It has the AF system and resolution that I wish the D700 had.

    HOWEVER, the D800 is still the hands-down champion of landscapes, adventures, and anything else where that kind of specialization is better than being well-rounded and speedy. In other words, sure the D800 is a bit more sluggish and the 5D mk3 has off-center cross-type AF points, but other than that I'd rather have a Nikon these days for the insane image quality coming from all three of their "ranges" of cameras.

    =Matt=

    The D800 is the champion when you need to print larger than 24x36", or need to crop a lot and still print really big, or push your shadows 4 or more stops and print big.
    I have been wondering what it would be like again to use a camera with mechanical controls. Would it make it easier to make quick adjustments? That may be asset of the DF that I had not considered. I think they should have given it two card slots because with that ISO range it could at least be an entry level or better events camera.

    Thoughts?
    Phil

    When you get right down to it, as far as I can tell the only mechanical control the DF has over the D800 or 5D3 is the shutter speed dial. And that should be on every DSLR anyway, it shouldn't take a "retro" body to bring this sorely lacking control back to the market. As for the EC dial, well it's nice but it's no match for the 5D3's rear wheel which behaves as EC when in Av or Tv mode, and is easily accessible with the right thumb - no need to remove your left hand from the lens.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • waywardfoolwaywardfool Registered Users Posts: 42 Big grins
    edited November 11, 2013
    Biggest thing going for it (out side of the manual dial, which I do like) is the D4 sensor, in a body for $2800.

    Biggest thing I don't like about it is the single card slot, and it's on the bottom with the battery, like a point'n'shoot. PIA with an L-bracket, tripod, grip.
  • babowcbabowc Registered Users Posts: 510 Major grins
    edited November 12, 2013
    Off topic, but what do you guys think about the 58mm 1.4G?
    Nano coating, but no ED glass.. Is it just a fancy 50mm with extra reach or the successor of the Noct?
    -Mike Jin
    D800
    16/2.8, f1.4G primes, f2.8 trio, 105/200 macro, SB900.
    It never gets easier, you just get better.
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited November 12, 2013
    I have been wondering what it would be like again to use a camera with mechanical controls. Would it make it easier to make quick adjustments? That may be asset of the DF that I had not considered. I think they should have given it two card slots because with that ISO range it could at least be an entry level or better events camera.

    Thoughts?
    Phil

    I am definitely going to be surprised if it doesn't handle SLOWER than a D700 / D800. Just being honest. However, IMO that is almost not the point. For example when I go out with my FM2, I go with the intent of just shooting, not with the do-or-die mentality of a fast-paced photojournalist.

    I will DEFINITELY be testing the DF at weddings, though, and I will be reporting on that for sure. However personally I am betting that my favorite use of the DF will be with old AIS glass, shooting star trails in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere... :-D

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited November 12, 2013
    babowc wrote: »
    Off topic, but what do you guys think about the 58mm 1.4G?
    Nano coating, but no ED glass.. Is it just a fancy 50mm with extra reach or the successor of the Noct?

    Judging by test images thus far, I am absolutely not impressed. I'd rather have the new classic looking 50mm f/1.8 G.

    However, I have very little faith in the technical aptitude of any of the tests I've seen, so I'll reserve judgment until I have it in my hands. Which should be soon, maybe even before the DF hits shelves.

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • tsk1979tsk1979 Registered Users Posts: 937 Major grins
    edited November 12, 2013
    As D7000 user with lots of lenses, I feel envious when I see the Canon 70D. Canon has the DX pulse fully mapped. And that hybrid AF is really good. Finally a DSLR from them which can shoot video properly
  • lifeinfocuslifeinfocus Registered Users Posts: 1,461 Major grins
    edited November 12, 2013
    When you get right down to it, as far as I can tell the only mechanical control the DF has over the D800 or 5D3 is the shutter speed dial. And that should be on every DSLR anyway, it shouldn't take a "retro" body to bring this sorely lacking control back to the market. As for the EC dial, well it's nice but it's no match for the 5D3's rear wheel which behaves as EC when in Av or Tv mode, and is easily accessible with the right thumb - no need to remove your left hand from the lens.

    I see ISO, EV, Shutter speed and Mode manual dials on top of the camera. Not that it matters because I think with only one card that it is a show stopper.
    Phil
    http://www.PhilsImaging.com
    "You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
    Phil
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited November 12, 2013
    I see ISO, EV, Shutter speed and Mode manual dials on top of the camera.

    Correct. Tired posting on my part. ISO would be another good dedicated dial to have. EC, I don't know how the D610 does it, but my 5D3 does it directly/easily enough. The D610 does have a mode dial on top, so no advantage to the DF there.

    Still, this is not worth $1000 to me. D4 sensor or D610 sensor, I don't really care.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • MolsondogMolsondog Registered Users Posts: 159 Major grins
    edited November 12, 2013
  • David_S85David_S85 Administrators Posts: 13,245 moderator
    edited November 12, 2013
    Molsondog wrote: »

    eek7.gif Is that for real? Looks like a bad PS job to me.
    My Smugmug
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
  • superduckzsuperduckz Registered Users Posts: 377 Major grins
    edited November 12, 2013
    Ahem..
    Note: If you have made it this far, you probably realize this is a spoof. At Photography Life, we try not to take our camera technology too seriously! As in the broader photography community, there are some very mixed feelings among the writers of Photography Life regarding the Nikon DF. Please don’t contact us with questions such as “Why can’t I seem to find the DFB pre-order links?”
    Accidents and Inspiration
    One of these days I'll have to figure out what my "style" is..
  • David_S85David_S85 Administrators Posts: 13,245 moderator
    edited November 12, 2013
    Ha! After some of the Hassy stuff, I can believe anything these days. A white Canon T5i? We'll know soon.
    My Smugmug
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited November 13, 2013
    Correct. Tired posting on my part. ISO would be another good dedicated dial to have. EC, I don't know how the D610 does it, but my 5D3 does it directly/easily enough. The D610 does have a mode dial on top, so no advantage to the DF there.

    Still, this is not worth $1000 to me. D4 sensor or D610 sensor, I don't really care.

    Again, it's not just a D4 sensor in a D610. It is a pro-caliber camera body, plain and simple.

    I do understand that fewer and fewer people are caring about the difference between "made in Japan" and "made in Thailand", but this difference has always been worth quite a lot.

    In fact in my opinion it is quite an accomplishment that the camera is about as light as a D610, yet built as tough as a D4.

    But again, I don't expect many to appreciate that.

    In other news, you know what would REALLY impress me and make the camera useful for general shooting? If one of the command dials could be programmed to control ISO without holding down a button. I would LOVE to be able to change my ISO with my right hand at any time, especially as a wedding photojournalist.

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • insanefredinsanefred Registered Users Posts: 604 Major grins
    edited November 13, 2013
    Again, it's not just a D4 sensor in a D610. It is a pro-caliber camera body, plain and simple.

    I do understand that fewer and fewer people are caring about the difference between "made in Japan" and "made in Thailand", but this difference has always been worth quite a lot.

    In fact in my opinion it is quite an accomplishment that the camera is about as light as a D610, yet built as tough as a D4.

    But again, I don't expect many to appreciate that.

    In other news, you know what would REALLY impress me and make the camera useful for general shooting? If one of the command dials could be programmed to control ISO without holding down a button. I would LOVE to be able to change my ISO with my right hand at any time, especially as a wedding photojournalist.

    =Matt=

    But.. but.. but... it is all about the high iso noise, and megapixels... right?!?!?!? rolleyes1.gif
  • studio1972studio1972 Registered Users Posts: 249 Major grins
    edited November 13, 2013
    I have been wondering what it would be like again to use a camera with mechanical controls. Would it make it easier to make quick adjustments? That may be asset of the DF that I had not considered. I think they should have given it two card slots because with that ISO range it could at least be an entry level or better events camera.

    Thoughts?
    Phil

    I may have some insight on this. I went from Canon 5D (and mk2) to Fuji X, which have dials for shutter,aperture and exposure comp, so full physical control in other words.

    I think it's a much better system than the PASM dial on DSLRs, and it's quicker to use. The exposure comp in particular is very convenient and I end up using it a lot more than I did on the canons.
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited November 13, 2013
    insanefred wrote: »
    But.. but.. but... it is all about the high iso noise, and megapixels... right?!?!?!? rolleyes1.gif

    Yeah, and the DF stands to have plenty of megapixels and the best ISO performance of any DSLR ever made. So? :-P

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • insanefredinsanefred Registered Users Posts: 604 Major grins
    edited November 13, 2013
    Yeah, and the DF stands to have plenty of megapixels and the best ISO performance of any DSLR ever made. So? :-P

    =Matt=


    But it iit is not enough! Just isn't enough! :wow
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited November 13, 2013
    Yeah, and the DF stands to have plenty of megapixels and the best ISO performance of any DSLR ever made. So? :-P

    =Matt=

    How do you figure it will be any better than the D4?
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • insanefredinsanefred Registered Users Posts: 604 Major grins
    edited November 13, 2013
    How do you figure it will be any better than the D4?


    It is newer with a similar sensor. Nikon has a history of making tweaks to their future products when doing this. I am sure there will be some exceptions though.
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