Tell me what do you think?

JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
edited March 6, 2014 in The Dgrin Challenges
Ok, the board was pretty active last week, even through Thanksgiving. Then the new challenges are put up and there is no response for 2 days. So let's hear your thoughts about the OOYCZ challenges.

Do you like it and are excited to get started?
Do they intimidate you because of all the reading there is in the OOYCZ Guide?
Are you unsure that you can critique?

Please folks, let me hear your thoughts and have your questions if you have any!
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Comments

  • DitchDocDitchDoc Registered Users Posts: 12 Big grins
    edited December 3, 2013
    Looking forward to it! It's a new thing for me so I'll spend time preparing.
  • lkbartlkbart Registered Users Posts: 1,912 Major grins
    edited December 3, 2013
    I think it looks great & am excited about putting together the first challenge piece. Not sure if I can put anything together before the 15th (busy sewing Nutcracker costumes) but have been thinking about what to put together so I'll be ready to shoot when I get costumes done.

    I like that it's titled Out Of Your Comfort Zone - very fitting, and also very good for learning. I've only skimmed the rules & may have a few questions as the challenge proceeds, but it looks like a good organizational plan.
    ~Lillian~
    A photograph is an artistic expression of life, captured one moment at a time . . .
    http://bartlettphotoart.smugmug.com/
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 3, 2013
    whew! I am glad that it has sparked some interest! Yes, it will definitely be out of comfort zones when it comes to subject matter, techniques and critiques, but isn't that what challenges are? Being OOYCZ? It can only make one stronger in their photography! :davidto

    Welcome to the challenge board DitchDoc! wave.gif
  • slpollettslpollett Registered Users Posts: 1,219 Major grins
    edited December 3, 2013
    I think there is/will be interest. This is just a busy time of the year for most people. Even for me...my day job keeps me hopping; it's nearing Christmas so I have the shopping/decorating/baking/etc to do (don't we all?) before my daughter comes back from college and the in-laws come to visit; I had a Senior shoot this past weekend and took WAY too many pictures to process...I barely have time to think about a challenge right now. But...I'm 'thinking' about it anyway!! I just don't know if I'll have a chance to actually DO this first one. I have ideas though....


    I do have a small question on the rules. What is considered the "challenge period"? Does it include the "instructions" phase as well as the "entry" phase or does the photo need to be taken only during the instruction phase? I guess I'm wondering if someone takes a photo and based upon the feedback received then makes more attempts, do all those attempts and tweaking need to be done before the 'entry' phase begins? I don't know if I explained this clearly or not, but maybe you get the idea.

    Additional feedback/thoughts:
    I love the name of this set of challenges. Very appropriate.
    I don't really care if there are prizes or not, but some people will care. The prize doesn't have to be big, but if some small prize could be offered (like maybe some cool Smuggy swag like coffee mugs/tshirts/etc or a feature blurb in the SmugMug blog) more people might be encouraged to participate.
    I like the idea of getting real feedback and critique on any images I post. I will admit to being apprehensive about giving it.

    For what it's worth...
    Sherry P.
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 3, 2013
    the challenge time frame would be from the time the challenge phase 1 (Instructions) posted, till the close of phase 2 (Entry). So yes, if you did your final tweeks or even a whole new image within the 3 day Entry phase, it will be considered ok. Once the Entry is closed, no more images can be entered for Phase 3 which is the Finals.
  • lifeinfocuslifeinfocus Registered Users Posts: 1,461 Major grins
    edited December 3, 2013
    Looking forward to it. I have an image in mind as I am typing this comment.

    Phil
    http://www.PhilsImaging.com
    "You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
    Phil
  • lifeinfocuslifeinfocus Registered Users Posts: 1,461 Major grins
    edited December 3, 2013
    So if I were to post an image for this challenge during the first period, do I use a special title for the posting - "OOYCZ" included for instance. Or just post an image with any title? If I do the latter how do we know it is part of the challenge?

    Sorry for such simplistic question.

    Phil
    http://www.PhilsImaging.com
    "You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
    Phil
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 3, 2013
    if you start a thread for this challenge to receive feedback, just put OOYCZ #1 feedback please, or something to that effect. Since there is only one challenge a month, it will be easy to sort them out with just the number of the challenge. So you wouldn't really need the OOYCZ since these are the only challenges that are asking for feedback.

    Just remember that when you start a thread, to keep all improvements and comments to that thread as you go along in the learning phase.
  • grandmaRgrandmaR Registered Users Posts: 2,198 Major grins
    edited December 3, 2013
    I didn't find out about it until this morning, and I'm still thinking about what I want to take a photo of, and where.
    “"..an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered." G.K. Chesterton”
  • lifeinfocuslifeinfocus Registered Users Posts: 1,461 Major grins
    edited December 3, 2013
    JAG wrote: »
    if you start a thread for this challenge to receive feedback, just put OOYCZ #1 feedback please, or something to that effect. Since there is only one challenge a month, it will be easy to sort them out with just the number of the challenge. So you wouldn't really need the OOYCZ since these are the only challenges that are asking for feedback.

    Just remember that when you start a thread, to keep all improvements and comments to that thread as you go along in the learning phase.

    So I entered a new thread - "OOYCZ - Sewing Center" to submit an image. Let me know if that is what you were looking forward as posting title, posting content, etc.

    Phil
    http://www.PhilsImaging.com
    "You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
    Phil
  • sapphire73sapphire73 Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 1,970 moderator
    edited December 3, 2013
    I'm looking forward to seeing how the new challenges play out. I like the idea that we are being challenged to try things (new techniques, critiquing, etc.) that might be outside of our comfort zones!

    Could we could come up with a handle that is more user friendly? Some folks suggested that "we" publicize the new challenges a bit more, and I'm not sure how people will respond to "OOYCZ" in a thread title. One suggestion would be to call them Dgrin Monthly Challenges with "out of your comfort zone" in the tagline or descriptor. Specific threads could be Monthly #1, Monthly #2, etc.

    Personally, I would like to see Monthly #1 Still Life (or whatever the specific challenge of the month might be) in the official threads started by the moderator (JAG) and think people might be more likely to open those threads to see what it's all about.

    The still life challenge is intriguing but not sure I will be able to play this month. A family member needs help with her baby while her back is out....

    Thank you, JAG, and others who may have contributed to this new approach to the Dgrin challenges.

    Gretchen
  • lifeinfocuslifeinfocus Registered Users Posts: 1,461 Major grins
    edited December 3, 2013
    I think that if there was only one challenge going on in "The Dgrin Challenges" or a way to isolate this type of challenge versus the mini-challenges it would make it easier to post and distinguish. I am not saying to stop those, just a way to isolate this type of challenge so that only the threads posted are for that challenge.

    Phil
    http://www.PhilsImaging.com
    "You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
    Phil
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 3, 2013
    sapphire73 wrote: »
    I'm looking forward to seeing how the new challenges play out. I like the idea that we are being challenged to try things (new techniques, critiquing, etc.) that might be outside of our comfort zones!

    Could we could come up with a handle that is more user friendly? Some folks suggested that "we" publicize the new challenges a bit more, and I'm not sure how people will respond to "OOYCZ" in a thread title. One suggestion would be to call them Dgrin Monthly Challenges with "out of your comfort zone" in the tagline or descriptor. Specific threads could be Monthly #1, Monthly #2, etc.

    Personally, I would like to see Monthly #1 Still Life (or whatever the specific challenge of the month might be) in the official threads started by the moderator (JAG) and think people might be more likely to open those threads to see what it's all about.

    The still life challenge is intriguing but not sure I will be able to play this month. A family member needs help with her baby while her back is out....

    Thank you, JAG, and others who may have contributed to this new approach to the Dgrin challenges.

    Gretchen

    Thank you for your comments. Actually, I thought long and hard about what to call the new challenges. In the past we have had Dgrin Sharp Shooters (DSS) and Last Photographer Standing (LPS) which were great when we had loads of people here. Those challenges were just reduced down to their initials and after a while, many didn't know exactly what the initials stood for but no one really cared. I think that the initials alone, make a person curious about it. Have you tried to pronounce OOYCZ (oo-ees-zee) as a word? Kind of like saying "Oo, easy" Challenges. mwink.gif

    I figured if I put the challenge theme in the title, Like Challenge #1 Still Life, and a person who does not shoot Still Life as a normal routine (which would be a large portion of the photographers), then they might just not even open it because they figure its not their style of shooting. Thus they miss out on the explanation of why we are having the challenges in the first place.

    If they see OOYCZ Challenge, they are more likely to open it to see what exactly it is. They know it will be a challenge, but when they read what the challenges are really about, stepping out of your comfort zone, they might be more likely to at least give it a try! At least that is what I am hoping for.

    So for now, we will keep the name and see how it is. Nothing ever is set in stone, but lets just see where this takes us for now.

    As for 'prizes' to sweeten and attract more to it, that will not be for now either. Lets just keep learning and bettering photography skills for free be the prize for now. We have so many different levels of skills and this community, if it works together, can be one of the best places on the web for learning. It will only work if everyone participates to the best of their own skill levels and help when they can or learn something new by stepping out and trying something new.

    Baby steps are needed to build this community back to where it was a few years ago. Interaction with each other to build relationships of friendships will certainly be the gravy if this works!thumb.gif
  • sapphire73sapphire73 Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 1,970 moderator
    edited December 3, 2013
    JAG wrote: »
    Thank you for your comments. Actually, I thought long and hard about what to call the new challenges.

    Hi JAG, I guessed that you had given a lot of thought to all aspects of the new Dgrin challenges. I am fine with the name and everything staying the same. Just wanted to respond to your invitation to give input. :D
    JAG wrote: »
    I figured if I put the challenge theme in the title, Like Challenge #1 Still Life, and a person who does not shoot Still Life as a normal routine (which would be a large portion of the photographers), then they might just not even open it because they figure its not their style of shooting. Thus they miss out on the explanation of why we are having the challenges in the first place.

    That's a good point. I was viewing this more along the lines of the technique assignments that Nikolai has moderated and thought titles might be a good draw.

    Someone else must have asked about prizes?

    Thanks again for initiating the new challenges.

    Gretchen
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 3, 2013
    Yes, Sherry mentions possible prizes to encourage more participation in the bottom of her reply and I forgot to put my comment when I answered her reply.
  • CHANDLERJACHANDLERJA Registered Users Posts: 400 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2013
    I like the idea and will be participating thumb.gif
    Jeromy
    http://snaptx.smugmug.com/
    Light is everything in life and photography.
  • WhatSheSawWhatSheSaw Registered Users Posts: 2,221 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2013
    I am excited to try this new challenge. While the prizes initially drew me in to the DSS, the feedback kept me coming back. I am travelling now and will be busy with Christmas preparations during the first two weeks, but hope to get something entered for this challenge.
  • slpollettslpollett Registered Users Posts: 1,219 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2013
    Yes, the feedback and critique is the 'real' prize anyway for me. I just noticed that when the old challenges stopped giving out larger prizes or free smugmug accounts (or discounts) to the winners that participation just fell off. I remember that a 'slow' challenge in the old days would still have over 50 entries and it was common to get 75 or so. Once the prizes went away, we were doing good to get 20.

    Prizes don't matter to me, but I noticed that they seem to matter to a lot of people. That's the only reason I even mentioned it.

    Sherry
  • CambysesCambyses Registered Users Posts: 141 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2013
    Wow, hadn't checked Dgrin for a while. Just stopped by today and what a pleasant surprise to see some form of a challenge getting started again.

    With the way you have thought about this and have set it up in order to ensure critiques on the entries, this can certainly be a good learning experience, which in itself can be seen as the real prize here. But I think it would be hard to deny the fact that the Smugmug membership prizes were in fact a key distinguishing element of the Dgrin challenges and were acting as extra push/motivation for many of the participants to join the challenges, particularly when there were Mega Challenges (And frankly, it sure was one of the motivating factors both for myself and my wife when we first joined).

    As such, I think it would really be great to at least add some sort of a Mega type challenges with Smugmug membership prizes again, if possible. That is, while each OOYCZ challenge will not have any prize, there will be a Mega OOYCZ, say, every 3 months or so, where only the top 5 or so winners of all the past OOYCZ challenges can participate, and where there would be some prizes, maybe not a lifetime account like we had with the previous Mega's, but, just a one-year Smugmug Business or even Standard account or something. Just my 2 cents :)
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 4, 2013
    At this time, prizes will not be a part of the challenges. Lets just go with what we have for now. More participation will come as people become more confident in how these are working. If I remember correctly, the original LPS challenges (which started the whole thing with challenges anyway), didn't have anything but bragging rights when it first started. Prizes were added later. (I could be wrong on this, but it seems like I had saw this said somewhere, if anyone was around at the beginning of the LPS and can verify or correct me, please do).
  • grandmaRgrandmaR Registered Users Posts: 2,198 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2013
    I missed the original comment thread and I looked back at the instructions and didn't see this there but ...

    Do we have to enter the preliminary for comments in order to put a photo in the ENTRY?

    Can the photo we put in ENTRY be a completely different photo from the ones submitted in the first two weeks?

    I have about 14 ideas of things I could do - and they are all possible, but what I'm concerned about is whether I will be physically able to gather the objects and put them together for a photo. (This is partly, but not entirely because my husband has been remodeling the kitchen since the fall of 2012 and a lot of the kitchen stuff is in the DR and that has made the things in the DR inaccessible.) But I have plenty of other stuff even though I have given away truckloads of things to photographers who wanted props for Baby photography. (Actually the ladies did not come in a truck but an SUV but you know what I mean.)
    “"..an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered." G.K. Chesterton”
  • kdotaylorkdotaylor Registered Users Posts: 1,280 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2013
    I've only had time to skim through this thread. I'm looking forward to having time this weekend to read the instructions thoroughly and think about shooting an image.
    Great idea! I'm looking forward to participating.
    Kate
    www.katetaylor.smugmug.com
    "You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." Mark Twain
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 5, 2013
    grandmaR wrote: »
    Do we have to enter the preliminary for comments in order to put a photo in the ENTRY? You do not have to comment, but it is encourage that you start your own thread with your images for critique. Also it is encouraged that you at least try and comment or critique during the Phase 1 instructions, but it is not required before the Phase 3 (Finals).

    Can the photo we put in ENTRY be a completely different photo from the ones submitted in the first two weeks? Yes.

    thumb.gif
  • grandmaRgrandmaR Registered Users Posts: 2,198 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2013
    What I meant was - do we have to submit a photo in phase I (in a thread for public comment) before we can enter in phase ? (two or three - what is two - just the entry?)

    I didn't mean to ask whether we had to comment on other people's photos
    “"..an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered." G.K. Chesterton”
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 6, 2013
    grandmaR wrote: »
    What I meant was - do we have to submit a photo in phase I (in a thread for public comment) before we can enter in phase ? (two or three - what is two - just the entry?)

    I didn't mean to ask whether we had to comment on other people's photos

    It is strongly suggested that people start threads with their works in progress in order to receive feedback in the first phase. This is not going to be a requirement.

    However, in the spirit of the challenges, the feedback and learning will help those who use it, improve greatly. As well as give more experienced photographers practice on things they might have forgotten or need more practice on.

    It is up to the individuals, but keep in mind, there are many very experienced photographers that might help those who are willing to learn.
  • Troy RaymondTroy Raymond Registered Users Posts: 171 Major grins
    edited December 6, 2013
    Are there editing restrictions? If one is comfortable in all forms of photography can they still play? :D
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 6, 2013
    Are there editing restrictions? If one is comfortable in all forms of photography can they still play? :D

    No editing restrictions other than it be all your own work or the challenge specifically states no editing. Never add anything such as tubes that you did not create or other photographers canned textures. They must be yours. I will be sure the rules state this. Thanks for the reminder.

    EDIT: I have updated the rules to reflect the above.
  • davevdavev Registered Users Posts: 3,118 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2013
    JAG wrote: »
    Ok, the board was pretty active last week, even through Thanksgiving. Then the new challenges are put up and there is no response for 2 days. So let's hear your thoughts about the OOYCZ challenges.

    Do you like it and are excited to get started?
    Do they intimidate you because of all the reading there is in the OOYCZ Guide?
    Are you unsure that you can critique?

    Please folks, let me hear your thoughts and have your questions if you have any!

    You asked for critique, here's mine.

    First thing, I had to search to find out what OOYCZ was. I'm already turned off when I don't know what I'm entering.

    Next, it appears that this is a month long challenge. In todays time of instant gratification, you're having a month long challenge?
    I don't think that's going to go over well.

    To many rules. I'm not sure if I need to critique in the first round to enter the second round. It sounds as if I don't critique in
    the second round, I can't vote. I don't know if I even read it right. I feel like I'm back in school and I'm being tested on what I read.

    Voting, if I'm allowed to. I sounds as if you must vote for 3.
    I guess that's ok, as long as there's, I don't know, at least 10 photos in the challenge?
    The first few challenges that may be a challenge it's self.

    Then for the final critique.
    You want people to critique every image in the final before voting.
    This will sway votes and cause some to feel unsure about entering again.
    Photo "A" has critique's like, "You've really captured the mood of the challenge. Your choice of
    colors and the way you arranged them is fantastic."

    Photo "B" has the critique of "I really like the color you were able to get in the sky."

    Obviously, the photographer of photo "B" needs the critique more than the photographer of photo "A"
    They probably aren't going to get it.

    I'll add to the fact that if there was more than 20 images, I wouldn't get into the finals for the fact
    that I wouldn't want to write that many critiques.

    I know you put a lot of thought into this, and I'm not saying that the idea is bad.
    But I think some things will need to be changed at some point.

    I hope I'm wrong, and things go well for you and folks that enter.

    ( the time frame thing is the most important thing. that's the reason I quite doing to mini's.
    Two weeks to post, for the most part, archived images? Cmon. the last mini I entered, I had
    forgot that I even entered it. good thing I didn't win. )
    dave.

    Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
  • JAGJAG Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
    edited December 15, 2013
    davev wrote: »
    You asked for critique, here's mine.

    First thing, I had to search to find out what OOYCZ was. I'm already turned off when I don't know what I'm entering. It is answered in the very first sentence of the OOYCZ Guide, so you didn't have to look far!

    Next, it appears that this is a month long challenge. In todays time of instant gratification, you're having a month long challenge? If you had read any of the posts about the DSS Challenges closure, you should have noted how many people were saying that 2 weeks was not enough time.
    I don't think that's going to go over well. Cannot please all the people all the time.

    To many rules. I'm not sure if I need to critique in the first round to enter the second round. It sounds as if I don't critique in
    the second round, I can't vote. I don't know if I even read it right. I feel like I'm back in school and I'm being tested on what I read. You read it right. In the final thread, all those that made a commitment that far, must leave a constructive critique for all the images but their own. Again, if you read any of the discussions from a few months ago, the consensus was that most thought that communication and proper critiquing on this board for challenges, was what it made it a useful learning place to be, and fun.

    Voting, if I'm allowed to. I sounds as if you must vote for 3.
    I guess that's ok, as long as there's, I don't know, at least 10 photos in the challenge?
    The first few challenges that may be a challenge it's self.
    "Voting" is not really voting. Its picking your top 3 images that you like. It is about getting points. The only winners will be those who participate fully and learn something from it. The points are only a way for a person (if they choose) to see how they are growing in the challenges.

    Then for the final critique.
    You want people to critique every image in the final before voting.
    This will sway votes and cause some to feel unsure about entering again.
    Photo "A" has critique's like, "You've really captured the mood of the challenge. Your choice of
    colors and the way you arranged them is fantastic."

    Photo "B" has the critique of "I really like the color you were able to get in the sky."

    Obviously, the photographer of photo "B" needs the critique more than the photographer of photo "A"
    They probably aren't going to get it.
    I also believe that we are all adults here with minds of our own. As photographers and artists, we surely know what we like and do not like regardless of what others critique. Again, the points mean only what you want them to mean. If your image is not getting enough points in the placing that you expect, then you can either take it as: 1. You need to improve 2. Other images were better than yours, or 3. The points mean absolutely nothing to you

    I'll add to the fact that if there was more than 20 images, I wouldn't get into the finals for the fact
    that I wouldn't want to write that many critiques. That is your choice.

    I know you put a lot of thought into this, and I'm not saying that the idea is bad.
    But I think some things will need to be changed at some point. Nothing is ever set in stone, but we will give this a try and you are welcome to join in if you so choose.

    I hope I'm wrong, and things go well for you and folks that enter.

    ( the time frame thing is the most important thing. that's the reason I quite doing to mini's.
    Two weeks to post, for the most part, archived images? Cmon. the last mini I entered, I had
    forgot that I even entered it. good thing I didn't win. ) I hear you, but this is a more leisurely challenge so folks have enough time to get it right and to hone their skills.

    davev, Thanks for your concerns. See my answers in Orange above.
  • JCJC Registered Users Posts: 768 Major grins
    edited December 20, 2013
    JAG wrote: »
    Ok, the board was pretty active last week, even through Thanksgiving. Then the new challenges are put up and there is no response for 2 days. So let's hear your thoughts about the OOYCZ challenges.

    Do you like it and are excited to get started?
    Do they intimidate you because of all the reading there is in the OOYCZ Guide?
    Are you unsure that you can critique?

    Please folks, let me hear your thoughts and have your questions if you have any!

    I agree a little bit with some of the above, that it does seem to violate the KISS theory (keep it simple stupid). The instructions aren't that hard, but they are multifaceted, and I could imagine that could discourage new participants.


    All my photo gear was boxed up for a while, so I didn't read it at first with an eye to really consider participating right now.
    I worry a little bit that this rule "Only those who have an image entered to the Final thread will be able to critique the final images. All other replies or comments will be deleted. "
    actually discourages critique, because (especially if you aren't around during the first stage), it's easier to critique images that are all in place, rather than through all the initial posts.
    I could go back to the individual posts and give my 2 cents, but I imagine those posts are a bit past their prime now.

    Maybe next months I'll have more time to participate, and earlier. This seems like a lot of work for the mods!
    Yeah, if you recognize the avatar, new user name.
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