A Better Way to Dodge and Burn?

cletuscletus Master of CrapositionPosts: 1,915Registered Users Major grins
edited October 5, 2010 in Finishing School
There is a pretty cool way to get the same effect as the dodge/burn tools in an pseudo adjustment layer:
  1. Alt + click (Mac: Option+click) on the new layer button in the layers palette.
  2. In the New Layer dialog, change the mode of the new layer to Overlay
  3. Make sure that Fill with Overlay-neutral color is checked
  4. Click OK
You've just added a new layer filled with 50% gray. In overlay mode 50% gray has no effect. So how do you use this new layer???
  1. Set your foreground color to black (actually any shade of gray darker than 50% will work)
  2. Grab the paintbrush (use a fairly large soft-edged brush)
  3. Set the paintbrush opacity (and/or flow) in the 20-50% range
  4. Start painting on your new layer
Any areas on the layer that are darker than 50% gray will darken the underlying image (burning). Guess what happens if your foreground color is white (or a shade of gray lighter than 50%)??? You start to lighten the underlying image (dodging). If you dodge or burn an area and you don't like the result? Set your foreground color to 50% gray and paint over the area. The dodge/burn effect will be wiped away!


Because you're doing the dodge/burn with a layer, you can do all kinds of cool stuff:

  • Use selections to dodge/burn areas of an image (select the area then fill it with an appropriate shade of gray)
  • Use paths to dodge/burn areas
  • Use adjustment layers to control the amount of dodge/burn the layer gives
  • Run filters on your dodge/burn effect (I'm not quite sure why you would want to, but hey, as with anything in photoshop, at some point someone is going to find an application for it)
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ab0wa.smugmug.com
«1

Comments

  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Posts: 15,471Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 28, 2004
    Uh-oh, I smell the Hall of Wisdom! To qualify, Cletus, you hafta tell us how to get 50% gray in one of the color boxes.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • cletuscletus Master of Craposition Posts: 1,915Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 28, 2004
    wxwax wrote:
    Uh-oh, I smell the Hall of Wisdom! To qualify, Cletus, you hafta tell us how to get 50% gray in one of the color boxes.
    Just click on either the foreground or background color box in the Tool Palette:
    5893785-M.jpg
    to launch the Color Picker. I just set the Hsb (Hue, saturation, brightness) values to 0,0,50:
    6643298-M.jpg
    The digital grin photography forum's only slack-jawed moderator.
    ab0wa.smugmug.com
  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Posts: 15,471Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 28, 2004
    thumb.gif
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • lynnmalynnma Moddess Emeritus Posts: 5,158Super Moderators moderator
    edited July 28, 2004
    :roll Using light to make the bull stand out...
  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Posts: 15,471Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 28, 2004
    Brilliant, Cletus. What a fantastic tip! Last night I ham handedly tried to adjust photos of a concert. This technique is the answer I needed! Woo hoo!

    Here's the original shot.

    6653099-M.jpg

    Here's the same shot using your technique.

    6653097-M.jpg

    And here's my crude effort from last night. The improvement using your method is measured in gitrillionites.

    6633990-M.jpg
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaPosts: 14,081Super Moderators moderator
    edited July 28, 2004
    cletus wrote:
    There is a pretty cool way to get the same effect as the dodge/burn tools in an pseudo adjustment layer:
    1. Alt + click (Mac: Option+click) on the new layer button in the layers palette.
    2. In the New Layer dialog, change the mode of the new layer to Overlay
    3. Make sure that Fill with Overlay-neutral color is checked
    4. Click OK
    You've just added a new layer filled with 50% gray. In overlay mode 50% gray has no effect. So how do you use this new layer???
    1. Set your foreground color to black (actually any shade of gray darker than 50% will work)
    2. Grab the paintbrush (use a fairly large soft-edged brush)
    3. Set the paintbrush opacity (and/or flow) in the 20-50% range
    4. Start painting on your new layer
    Any areas on the layer that are darker than 50% gray will darken the underlying image (burning). Guess what happens if your foreground color is white (or a shade of gray lighter than 50%)??? You start to lighten the underlying image (dodging). If you dodge or burn an area and you don't like the result? Set your foreground color to 50% gray and paint over the area. The dodge/burn effect will be wiped away!


    Because you're doing the dodge/burn with a layer, you can do all kinds of cool stuff:

    • Use selections to dodge/burn areas of an image (select the area then fill it with an appropriate shade of gray)
    • Use paths to dodge/burn areas
    • Use adjustment layers to control the amount of dodge/burn the layer gives
    • Run filters on your dodge/burn effect (I'm not quite sure why you would want to, but hey, as with anything in photoshop, at some point someone is going to find an application for it)
    Like I said earlier Cletus "The more you learn about Photoshop, the more ways there are to perform the same image adjustment tasks."Wicked.gif

    The dodge and burn tools, can, of course, be used with paths and selections too in an adjustment layer.lickout.gif I'll try the Overlaying a neutral grey adjustment layer - but whether you use a black or white brush on an adjustment layer, or a dodge or burn tool on a duplicate layer is almost a matter of semantics isn't it? I'll have to read the details of exactly what the software does in Overlay mode I think.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • cletuscletus Master of Craposition Posts: 1,915Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 28, 2004
    pathfinder wrote:
    ...whether you use a black or white brush on an adjustment layer, or a dodge or burn tool on a duplicate layer is almost a matter of semantics isn't it?
    Yes and no.

    I look at this way: If I want to make a levels adjustment to an image but I want to have the option of changing the levels adjustment at a later time, I can 1) Use a levels adjustment layer 2) Copy the image onto a new layer and run an adjustment on the copy. I don't need to make a copy of my image before using the adjustment layer because it doesn't alter the pixels in my image, it just describes an operation that Photoshop performs before the pixels are displayed. On the other hand, running the adjustment without using and adjustment layer does change the image pixels, so to be able to go back to my original image, I need to make a copy first.

    The overlay method and dodge/burn are the same way. If I want to be able to go back and change what I do, I can use the overlay method which won't alter the image pixels, or I can make a copy of the image on a new layer and use the dodge/burn tools which will alter image pixels.
    The digital grin photography forum's only slack-jawed moderator.
    ab0wa.smugmug.com
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaPosts: 14,081Super Moderators moderator
    edited July 29, 2004
    cletus wrote:
    There is a pretty cool way to get the same effect as the dodge/burn tools in an pseudo adjustment layer:
    1. Alt + click (Mac: Option+click) on the new layer button in the layers palette.
    2. In the New Layer dialog, change the mode of the new layer to Overlay
    3. Make sure that Fill with Overlay-neutral color is checked
    4. Click OK
    You've just added a new layer filled with 50% gray. In overlay mode 50% gray has no effect. So how do you use this new layer???
    1. Set your foreground color to black (actually any shade of gray darker than 50% will work)
    2. Grab the paintbrush (use a fairly large soft-edged brush)
    3. Set the paintbrush opacity (and/or flow) in the 20-50% range
    4. Start painting on your new layer
    Any areas on the layer that are darker than 50% gray will darken the underlying image (burning). Guess what happens if your foreground color is white (or a shade of gray lighter than 50%)??? You start to lighten the underlying image (dodging). If you dodge or burn an area and you don't like the result? Set your foreground color to 50% gray and paint over the area. The dodge/burn effect will be wiped away!


    Because you're doing the dodge/burn with a layer, you can do all kinds of cool stuff:
    • Use selections to dodge/burn areas of an image (select the area then fill it with an appropriate shade of gray)
    • Use paths to dodge/burn areas
    • Use adjustment layers to control the amount of dodge/burn the layer gives
    • Run filters on your dodge/burn effect (I'm not quite sure why you would want to, but hey, as with anything in photoshop, at some point someone is going to find an application for it)
    I owe you one there Cletus - I like the neutral gray overlay adjustment technique. The Overlay mode helps pick up the borders between the dark and the lighter parts of the image without having to use a selection tool. That is a big plus and makes darkening a backround that is already kind of dark very quick and easy.

    I still find that for local contrast adjustment, particulary darkening focal highlights, that the burn tool set to just adjust highlights is very handy.

    This is an image that I darkened the background with your overlay technique. No selection tool was utilized to seperate the butterfly from the background, and yet the is no haloing. I like your suggestion.lickout.gif

    6672889-L.jpg
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • zero-zerozero-zero Overworked idjet Posts: 147Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 29, 2004
    Back to "focusing attention": I attended some friends' wedding the other day and managed to take the Canon G2 only. I grabbed some stills for my own enjoyment and as a memento for them, and given that they already had a contract photog to please the relatives, I'm free to do the really moody stuff. these print beautifully at 10x16".

    (Before you ask, yes, she did know about her bra, and no, she didn't want it retouched away). :D

    On to the pics:

    6678209-M.jpg

    6678211-M.jpg



    6678210-M.jpg



    Here's the originals:

    6349390-M.jpg

    6349369-M.jpg

    6349402-M.jpg

    Hope you like them.
  • cletuscletus Master of Craposition Posts: 1,915Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 29, 2004
    Nice work ZZ!!!
    I really like those shots. I'm not seeing your original images ne_nau.gif
    The digital grin photography forum's only slack-jawed moderator.
    ab0wa.smugmug.com
  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Posts: 15,471Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 29, 2004
    Those are lovely photos, Z-Z. Looks like motion blur on at least a couple of them? I really, really like the B&W (and toning?) treatment you gave them - they have a great feel. My favorite is the last - I love the feeling of the soft, sweeping, glowing tent.

    I can't see or cut and paste the originals - perhaps that gallery is blocked?
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • zero-zerozero-zero Overworked idjet Posts: 147Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 29, 2004
    Some weirdness is going on with that gallery. I'll try attaching them:

    First:
  • zero-zerozero-zero Overworked idjet Posts: 147Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 29, 2004
    second...
  • zero-zerozero-zero Overworked idjet Posts: 147Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 29, 2004
    ...and last:
  • lynnmalynnma Moddess Emeritus Posts: 5,158Super Moderators moderator
    edited July 29, 2004
    pathfinder wrote:
    I owe you one there Cletus - I like the neutral gray overlay adjustment technique. The Overlay mode helps pick up the borders between the dark and the lighter parts of the image without having to use a selection tool. That is a big plus and makes darkening a backround that is already kind of dark very quick and easy.

    I still find that for local contrast adjustment, particulary darkening focal highlights, that the burn tool set to just adjust highlights is very handy.

    This is an image that I darkened the background with your overlay technique. No selection tool was utilized to seperate the butterfly from the background, and yet the is no haloing. I like your suggestion.lickout.gif
    Beautiful job on the butterfly Path. I'm gonna have to practice that adjustment technique.. it's flawless..thumb.gif
  • lynnmalynnma Moddess Emeritus Posts: 5,158Super Moderators moderator
    edited July 29, 2004
    zero-zero wrote:
    Back to "focusing attention": I attended some friends' wedding the other day and managed to take the Canon G2 only. I grabbed some stills for my own enjoyment and as a memento for them, and given that they already had a contract photog to please the relatives, I'm free to do the really moody stuff. these print beautifully at 10x16".

    (Before you ask, yes, she did know about her bra, and no, she didn't want it retouched away). :D

    On to the pics:

    Here's the originals:

    Hope you like them.
    I love the black and white tones Zero.. my favorite is the bride and her friend.. captures a sweet moment of friendship and happiness.
    Love to see some more if you have any..
    Lynn
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Crazy Creek Babe Posts: 8,416Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 29, 2004
    wxwax wrote:
    Brilliant, Cletus. What a fantastic tip! Last night I ham handedly tried to adjust photos of a concert. This technique is the answer I needed! Woo hoo!

    Here's the original shot.



    Here's the same shot using your technique.

    6653097-M.jpg

    And here's my crude effort from last night. The improvement using your method is measured in gitrillionites.
    Hey, Sid, I recognize the guitarist. I like him much better in those pictures.
    Would he look a bit more like a musician with a different haircut, though.

    I didn't know about this thread, going to have to print it out. I am glad I was wandering.

    The guy does look 100% better than before, IMO.

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Posts: 15,471Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 30, 2004
    zero-zero wrote:
    second...
    I really like how ou used light and shadow when you converted this one, Z-Z. Nice work, thanks for sharing. An education.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Posts: 15,471Registered Users Major grins
    edited July 31, 2004
    Your Ad Copy Here. naughty.gif

    6751421-L.jpg
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • lynnmalynnma Moddess Emeritus Posts: 5,158Super Moderators moderator
    edited July 31, 2004
    wxwax wrote:
    Your Ad Copy Here. naughty.gif
    rolleyes1.gif Thats a GREAT shot!!! hope you took yer own...1drink.gif
  • zero-zerozero-zero Overworked idjet Posts: 147Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 2, 2004
    cletus wrote:
    Because you're doing the dodge/burn with a layer, you can do all kinds of cool stuff:

    • Use selections to dodge/burn areas of an image (select the area then fill it with an appropriate shade of gray)
    • Use paths to dodge/burn areas
    • Use adjustment layers to control the amount of dodge/burn the layer gives
    • Run filters on your dodge/burn effect (I'm not quite sure why you would want to, but hey, as with anything in photoshop, at some point someone is going to find an application for it)
    One good reason to run a filter on an overlay layer is to add noise to do a digital TRI-X effect. That way, the "grain" stays separate from the image and can be edited at will.

    By the way, there's no need to use the picker to select 50% gray to fill a layer - it is one of the options in the edit/fill drop menu (along with a fave of mine: fill with history)
  • lynnmalynnma Moddess Emeritus Posts: 5,158Super Moderators moderator
    edited August 2, 2004
    zero-zero wrote:
    One good reason to run a filter on an overlay layer is to add noise to do a digital TRI-X effect. That way, the "grain" stays separate from the image and can be edited at will.

    By the way, there's no need to use the picker to select 50% gray to fill a layer - it is one of the options in the edit/fill drop menu (along with a fave of mine: fill with history)
    Hi Zero..

    I had discovered the 50% gray in the edit options ... but fill with history??? can't wait to go look.clap.gif yippeee something else to obsess about.
    Lynn
    p.s.
    I still have'nt figured out the history brush yet.. I can't seem to get anything out of it..
  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Posts: 15,471Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 2, 2004
    Please explain using the fill with 50% grey on a layer. Is that easier than alt-clicking on the icon on the Layers palette? Or is it a way to bring up 50% grey when you want to undo something?
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaPosts: 14,081Super Moderators moderator
    edited August 2, 2004
    wxwax wrote:
    Please explain using the fill with 50% grey on a layer. Is that easier than alt-clicking on the icon on the Layers palette? Or is it a way to bring up 50% grey when you want to undo something?
    Waxy - I thought sure you had seen this - it was Cletus post "Ditch the Burn Tool" http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=21736&postcount=29 which was following the discussion you and I had about darkening the background around the black gentlemen you posted with the very long hair. Rather than using levels on an adjustment layer with a mask, he uses a 50% grey adjustment layer and then paints with a black or white brush to lighten or darken the areas of interest. Thats what I was referring to earlier - I though I got the idea from you, but it really came form Cletu's post. Just follow the link above and I think it will be self explanatory.

    If you go to the layers Palette, and click on the icon to the right of the white/black yin/yang symbol for an adjustment layer WHILE pressing the ALT key a new dialog box comes up for a new layer where you can name the layer, leave the color to none, but change the mode to OVERLAY. When you do this, a new box comes up that says "Fill with overlay neutral color- 50%grey" Check this box, and a new adjustment layer filled with 50% grey pops up in the layers palette!

    Treat this like a mask - it is a mask - paint with a black brush and you will find this is a splendid way to darken a background with the black brush or reverse it with a white brush. Just try it - I am sure you will find it very useful. And Thanks again, Cletus!! One of the better PS tricks I have learned here at dgrin!! Photoshop is not always the most intuitive program, but, BOY, does it deliver the goods when you begin to learn how to drive it.clap.gif

    I was a little lost about z-z's edit fill History comment. But it you click Edit -Fill - a new box pops up that in the contents Box offers history as well as 50%neutral grey as a layer. I need to explore this more. The history brush can be very useful to paint back in overcorrected areas or sloppy selections so this bears further investigation. Are we having fun yet?
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • lynnmalynnma Moddess Emeritus Posts: 5,158Super Moderators moderator
    edited August 2, 2004
    pathfinder wrote:
    Waxy - I thought sure you had seen this - it was Cletus post "Ditch the Burn Tool" http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=21736&postcount=29 which was following the discussion you and I had about darkening the background around the black gentlemen you posted with the very long hair. Rather than using levels on an adjustment layer with a mask, he uses a 50% grey adjustment layer and then paints with a black or white brush to lighten or darken the areas of interest. Thats what I was referring to earlier - I though I got the idea from you, but it really came form Cletu's post. Just follow the link above and I think it will be self explanatory.

    If you go to the layers Palette, and click on the icon to the right of the white/black yin/yang symbol for an adjustment layer WHILE pressing the ALT key a new dialog box comes up for a new layer where you can name the layer, leave the color to none, but change the mode to OVERLAY. When you do this, a new box comes up that says "Fill with overlay neutral color- 50%grey" Check this box, and a new adjustment layer filled with 50% grey pops up in the layers palette!

    Treat this like a mask - it is a mask - paint with a black brush and you will find this is a splendid way to darken a background with the black brush or reverse it with a white brush. Just try it - I am sure you will find it very useful. And Thanks again, Cletus!! One of the better PS tricks I have learned here at dgrin!! Photoshop is not always the most intuitive program, but, BOY, does it deliver the goods when you begin to learn how to drive it.clap.gif

    I was a little lost about z-z's edit fill History comment. But it you click Edit -Fill - a new box pops up that in the contents Box offers history as well as 50%neutral grey as a layer. I need to explore this more. The history brush can be very useful to paint back in overcorrected areas or sloppy selections so this bears further investigation. Are we having fun yet?
    What is it about "history" I don't get? I'm ok with the darken 50% thingy but as far as I can see if you do the same with and choose "history" it's just a clone tool... actually, healing brush.. I'm obviously missing something... I think I have a mental block with history brushes and such.. I can never make them work.umph.gif
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaPosts: 14,081Super Moderators moderator
    edited August 2, 2004
    lynnma wrote:
    What is it about "history" I don't get? I'm ok with the darken 50% thingy but as far as I can see if you do the same with and choose "history" it's just a clone tool... actually, healing brush.. I'm obviously missing something... I think I have a mental block with history brushes and such.. I can never make them work.umph.gif
    Lynn - the history brush is very helpful and useful, but not directly intuitive.

    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2220&page=1 Here is a thread where I helped fix some blown out highlights in a leaf. Nothing really great about it - I just used a patch from the opposite side of the leaf, used the Transform mode to flip the patch 180 and refit it to the blown side of the leaf. But in places the patch was slightly too big and extended beyond the edge of the leaf and encroached on the adjacent leaf to the left. I could have fiddled around trying to get the patch to fit just so, but by using the history brush I could paint in the adjacent leaf as it was in the begining.

    The secret to the history brush is that you have to click on a previous state in the history palette - this will then serve as the sample site and the bush can then be used to paint in further down in the current history level. Is this clear or murky as mud?ne_nau.gif umph.gif

    Think of it this way - when we use a clone tool, we have to register a spot on the current layer to sample from, and this spot is then repeated at the tip of the clone tool. With a history brush we sample from a previous history state or even the original image, and paint the original into the current state of editing affairs. Think of how cool this is? If you over do it editing somewhere, with the history brush you can paint yourself back out of the corner. If you edit too much outside of the area you want to change, with the history brush yoo can paint your misstakes away. Just think how nice a history brush would be for real life!!clap.gif
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Posts: 15,471Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 2, 2004
    pathfinder wrote:
    I was a little lost about z-z's edit fill History comment. But it you click Edit -Fill - a new box pops up that in the contents Box offers history as well as 50%neutral grey as a layer. I need to explore this more. The history brush can be very useful to paint back in overcorrected areas or sloppy selections so this bears further investigation. Are we having fun yet?
    Thanks Path, that's the answer I was hoping for. I have been assiduously using Cletus' tip since I first read it.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • lynnmalynnma Moddess Emeritus Posts: 5,158Super Moderators moderator
    edited August 3, 2004
    pathfinder wrote:
    Lynn - the history brush is very helpful and useful, but not directly intuitive.

    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2220&page=1 Here is a thread where I helped fix some blown out highlights in a leaf. Nothing really great about it - I just used a patch from the opposite side of the leaf, used the Transform mode to flip the patch 180 and refit it to the blown side of the leaf. But in places the patch was slightly too big and extended beyond the edge of the leaf and encroached on the adjacent leaf to the left. I could have fiddled around trying to get the patch to fit just so, but by using the history brush I could paint in the adjacent leaf as it was in the begining.

    The secret to the history brush is that you have to click on a previous state in the history palette - this will then serve as the sample site and the bush can then be used to paint in further down in the current history level. Is this clear or murky as mud?ne_nau.gif umph.gif

    Think of it this way - when we use a clone tool, we have to register a spot on the current layer to sample from, and this spot is then repeated at the tip of the clone tool. With a history brush we sample from a previous history state or even the original image, and paint the original into the current state of editing affairs. Think of how cool this is? If you over do it editing somewhere, with the history brush you can paint yourself back out of the corner. If you edit too much outside of the area you want to change, with the history brush yoo can paint your misstakes away. Just think how nice a history brush would be for real life!!clap.gif
    Thanks Path.. thats very clear actually.. I'll go play. While I'm here, what do you guys think of this ... too much? I've lost the plot a long time ago so I now have no clue....I've also put it lines and curves comments... don't ask me why..
  • zero-zerozero-zero Overworked idjet Posts: 147Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 4, 2004
    Sorry I returned too late to this thread, Sid. What Path said.

    Lynn, if you were going for a natural look, I'm afraid you should have hopped off the bus about three blocks ago. If you're aiming for impressionism, that's something else. nod.gif
  • lynnmalynnma Moddess Emeritus Posts: 5,158Super Moderators moderator
    edited August 4, 2004
    zero-zero wrote:
    Sorry I returned too late to this thread, Sid. What Path said.

    Lynn, if you were going for a natural look, I'm afraid you should have hopped off the bus about three blocks ago. If you're aiming for impressionism, that's something else. nod.gif
    rolleyes1.gif basically Roberto I'm trying to do something that is'nt possiblerolleyes1.gif make a poor shot look good! I'ts time to trash itthumb.gif
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