portrait experts??
I believe there might be some color cast issues in these five corrected photos (4 previous posts and one after) as well as some other issues--
I'm not trying to disparage anyone's correction but there's such a difference in these that it can't all be personal preferences--
could someone or some others (angelo, davidto, etc.) comment on these--
I think I could learn from it--
thanks jrollins for the shot--as jfriend said, this is your photo of the year for your daughter--
I believe there might be some color cast issues in these five corrected photos (4 previous posts and one after) as well as some other issues
I did find a bit of a color cast (probably due to the shady light). When I looked at several sample points on the girl's face in CMYK readings, I found more magenta than yellow in a few spots and nearly equal values in the others. Since normal caucassian skin always has less magenta than yellow (usually 5-20% less), that suggested to me that there was either too much magenta or not enough yellow. When I was doing the color enhancement with a B curve, I tweaked the center point of that curve and the shape of that curve to try to lower the magenta relative to the yellow. I also tried to enhance the blue clothing without adding any sort of blue cast.
It is likely that this same color cast is why zigzag's retouch is too red. When you enhance the colors (particularly in LAB mode), any existing color cast gets exaggerated and you must get rid of the cast. Other color changes in my retouch are the result of the shape of the A or B curve that I applied and are done to the retoucher's taste.
I like the sharpness in GF's retouch vs. mine. I didn't try to sharpen because it didn't seem to make much sense to me at such a small size (good sharpening needs a good resolution), but it clearly helps the image, even at this tiny size.
You may see other differences between these due to how much of a levels adjustment each retouch did. Since the highlights are getting thrown away in the crop, there's lots of tonal range to tweak the levels to generate more contrast.
Other differences are likely just due to the individual retoucher's own goals. While there are many technical aspects and techniques to a good retouch, it's still personal opinion for what result you are trying to achieve - the science and computer tools still require artistic judgement as they are applied, how much to apply them and what looks good. In my own efforts, I tend to be strong on technique (I've read, studied and practiced a zillion photoshop books and lots of retouched images online), but I'm still weak in the artistic judgement for what looks good.
I agree that personal preferences are a part of the issue here, and I believe that a lot of my photos will be criticized for things that I believe to be personal preferences--
I just read a quote in a photo book that said, "It's not what it is, but how it feels."--
If I have a photo that I like and that I'm proud of, and no one else likes it, so what!--it's still a good photo--
but I do agree that there is a certain level of competency where techniques are concerned that are necessary for any decent photo--
I had a couple of pictures today with sloppy masking techniques, and while I'm okay with it today, tomorrow when I do some more masking, it will be something I will pay more attention to because I want to do it right, and my photo will be better for it--
having said all that, there's plenty of technique to be learned here, and that will hopefully give us a good foundation for some great photos--
It's daunting when you start playing in PS--there are sooo many choices and tools. Heck, I'm a tech guy for a living and PS "scares" me a little bit.
Yeah, I'm a tech guy too for a "real" job. I say "real" because I've always been inteested in computers and technology, so it just made sense for me to follow that for a career. Likewise I LOVE taking photos and get a real kick out of actually capturing something useful. So I figure in the long run I'd like to make some money at it to support my hobby/addiction. Of course that would make the wife happy as well...
Now I just have to learn this color stuff...
Thanks again for all of the comments and retouches, they're great!
Canon 20D with Grip
Canon 580EX
Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
Canon 50mm f/1.8
Thanks, but I'm still looking into calibration kits...
Actually, after looking at two of the retouch images (mine and bing's), I might like the brightness to be somewhere between the two. Other than that I like it.
Looking forward to being around a while...
Jon
Canon 20D with Grip
Canon 580EX
Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
Canon 50mm f/1.8
if you're talking CMYK, then you're off by a factor of 10. I believe that what you meant was 3-4%?
My memory was off on that one. It's not 30-40% less. Magenta does have to be less than Yellow. How much less depends upon the image and the skin complexion. According to smugmug's skin tone recommendations, it should be 5-20% less for this type of person. I've had some images that look good with Magenta just a tiny bit less than Yellow and some that look good with it 30% less. The one truism is that if Magenta is more than Yellow, the image will print too red.
Comments
I believe there might be some color cast issues in these five corrected photos (4 previous posts and one after) as well as some other issues--
I'm not trying to disparage anyone's correction but there's such a difference in these that it can't all be personal preferences--
could someone or some others (angelo, davidto, etc.) comment on these--
I think I could learn from it--
thanks jrollins for the shot--as jfriend said, this is your photo of the year for your daughter--
george
I did find a bit of a color cast (probably due to the shady light). When I looked at several sample points on the girl's face in CMYK readings, I found more magenta than yellow in a few spots and nearly equal values in the others. Since normal caucassian skin always has less magenta than yellow (usually 5-20% less), that suggested to me that there was either too much magenta or not enough yellow. When I was doing the color enhancement with a B curve, I tweaked the center point of that curve and the shape of that curve to try to lower the magenta relative to the yellow. I also tried to enhance the blue clothing without adding any sort of blue cast.
It is likely that this same color cast is why zigzag's retouch is too red. When you enhance the colors (particularly in LAB mode), any existing color cast gets exaggerated and you must get rid of the cast. Other color changes in my retouch are the result of the shape of the A or B curve that I applied and are done to the retoucher's taste.
I like the sharpness in GF's retouch vs. mine. I didn't try to sharpen because it didn't seem to make much sense to me at such a small size (good sharpening needs a good resolution), but it clearly helps the image, even at this tiny size.
You may see other differences between these due to how much of a levels adjustment each retouch did. Since the highlights are getting thrown away in the crop, there's lots of tonal range to tweak the levels to generate more contrast.
Other differences are likely just due to the individual retoucher's own goals. While there are many technical aspects and techniques to a good retouch, it's still personal opinion for what result you are trying to achieve - the science and computer tools still require artistic judgement as they are applied, how much to apply them and what looks good. In my own efforts, I tend to be strong on technique (I've read, studied and practiced a zillion photoshop books and lots of retouched images online), but I'm still weak in the artistic judgement for what looks good.
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thanks for the post--
I agree that personal preferences are a part of the issue here, and I believe that a lot of my photos will be criticized for things that I believe to be personal preferences--
I just read a quote in a photo book that said, "It's not what it is, but how it feels."--
If I have a photo that I like and that I'm proud of, and no one else likes it, so what!--it's still a good photo--
but I do agree that there is a certain level of competency where techniques are concerned that are necessary for any decent photo--
I had a couple of pictures today with sloppy masking techniques, and while I'm okay with it today, tomorrow when I do some more masking, it will be something I will pay more attention to because I want to do it right, and my photo will be better for it--
having said all that, there's plenty of technique to be learned here, and that will hopefully give us a good foundation for some great photos--
if you're talking CMYK, then you're off by a factor of 10. I believe that what you meant was 3-4%?
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Yeah, I'm a tech guy too for a "real" job. I say "real" because I've always been inteested in computers and technology, so it just made sense for me to follow that for a career. Likewise I LOVE taking photos and get a real kick out of actually capturing something useful. So I figure in the long run I'd like to make some money at it to support my hobby/addiction. Of course that would make the wife happy as well...
Now I just have to learn this color stuff...
Thanks again for all of the comments and retouches, they're great!
Canon 580EX
Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
Canon 50mm f/1.8
Canon 580EX
Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
Canon 50mm f/1.8
Nice!
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Actually, after looking at two of the retouch images (mine and bing's), I might like the brightness to be somewhere between the two. Other than that I like it.
Looking forward to being around a while...
Jon
Canon 580EX
Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
Canon 50mm f/1.8
My memory was off on that one. It's not 30-40% less. Magenta does have to be less than Yellow. How much less depends upon the image and the skin complexion. According to smugmug's skin tone recommendations, it should be 5-20% less for this type of person. I've had some images that look good with Magenta just a tiny bit less than Yellow and some that look good with it 30% less. The one truism is that if Magenta is more than Yellow, the image will print too red.
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Apparently mine was, too, and the truth was somewhere in the middle!
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