Am I going to be forced to accept New SmugMug?

davros · June 8, 2015

This may sound strange but the original SmugMug meets my requirements as it stands. The interruptions I got every now and then wanting me to try out the new version were enough of a pain but the band at the top of my screen, now, is a real annoyance.

I had a look at the new layout options but could find nothing that really appealed to me. Is there any way to stop the things that want me to swap over appearing?

Alameth · June 9, 2015

davros wrote: »

This may sound strange but the original SmugMug meets my requirements as it stands.

SmugMug has been clear here and elsewhere that Old Smug will be removed some day. It's not just a configuration flag or even different software; it's a completely different infrastructure. Maintaining both would be prohibitively expensive. As I software engineer myself, I totally get that.

But there's nothing "strange" about wanting to stay on Old Smug. I'm part of a pool of 12 photographers that work at our high school. Seven of us are SmugMug customers. One is using New Smug because he's a new user; one switched from Old to New practically the day it came out (and he loves New Smug). The other five of us are staying with Old Smug until we're forced to move, mostly because old does everything we want.

Aaron Meyers has kindly stepped up, extending an olive branch of sorts, working with me 1:1 on missing features in New Smug. It's a process.

davros wrote: »

The interruptions I got every now and then wanting me to try out the new version were enough of a pain but the band at the top of my screen, now, is a real annoyance.... Is there any way to stop the things that want me to swap over appearing?

You could ask the Heroes directly at the helpdesk. I'm guessing there's no way to turn that off. I'm seriously considering a GreaseMonkey script; P.M. me if you'd be interested in that.

Richard · June 9, 2015

The nag messages bring back memories of my mother reminding me of something that needed doing but that I was procrastinating about. Yeah, I know, I'll get around to it...eventually...maybe next month...or the one after that...

They are a minor annoyance compared to the major ones in my life. New SmugMug looks slicker but the old one serves my purposes just fine. My problem is taking better pictures, not a slicker showcase.

But I am grateful that SM has let me be a slacker this long.

jerryr · June 9, 2015

HI -
In the spirit of sharing - I thought I would share the following link to a blog article which features several new SmugMug sites and photography tips/tricks from Smuggers.
I have been using SmugMug for 9+ years and the photographers that I know who have switched from the Legacy SmugMug to the New SmugMug have been very very satisfied.
I have received nothing but excellent feedback and several have even mentioned an increase in business, SEO results, increase in traffic, etc...
"Go for it" - you have nothing to loss...

http://jrcustomization.com/2015/04/new-smugmug-information-and-examples/

thanks - jerryr

LPC · June 10, 2015

I am amazed Smugmug has let the two run in parallel for as long as they have. I thought they would give it six months at the most and here we are nearly two years later. I am one of those who switched within the first few weeks and I would feel so embarrassed to be still using such a dated looking and clunky website as my old SM site was despite all the CSS workarounds. I think fear of the new is a terrible thing but sooner or later Smugmug is going to force you to switch so for goodness sake set aside an afternoon and make the change. It's like those people who insist on still using Windows 95 (in fact I wonder how many intransigent old Smuggers also have both feet in that camp!)

denisegoldberg · June 10, 2015

LPC wrote: »

I am amazed Smugmug has let the two run in parallel for as long as they have. I thought they would give it six months at the most and here we are nearly two years later. I am one of those who switched within the first few weeks and I would feel so embarrassed to be still using such a dated looking and clunky website as my old SM site was despite all the CSS workarounds. I think fear of the new is a terrible thing but sooner or later Smugmug is going to force you to switch so for goodness sake set aside an afternoon and make the change. It's like those people who insist on still using Windows 95 (in fact I wonder how many intransigent old Smuggers also have both feet in that camp!)

I am also amazed that legacy continues to be supported.

I had a highly customized legacy site. I was able to replace it with new smug site that uses only a small amount of code in a very short amount of time . I was delighted with the change in look and feel of the site in addition to the ease of customization.

--- Denise

pilotdave · June 10, 2015

davros wrote: »

This may sound strange but the original SmugMug meets my requirements as it stands. The interruptions I got every now and then wanting me to try out the new version were enough of a pain but the band at the top of my screen, now, is a real annoyance.

I had a look at the new layout options but could find nothing that really appealed to me. Is there any way to stop the things that want me to swap over appearing?

I'd highly recommend getting started with designing your new smug site ASAP. I kept mine in preview mode for months before I made the permanent switch. Waiting until smugmug announces that you will HAVE to switch will just put you under the gun and in a rush. Start now, take your time, and do it right. If you have javascript customizations that are completely critical to how your site works, you should start building a new site elsewhere. Otherwise, get going with new smug.

Dave

Alameth · June 11, 2015

LPC wrote: »

I think fear of the new is a terrible thing but sooner or later Smugmug is going to force you to switch so for goodness sake set aside an afternoon and make the change. It's like those people who insist on still using Windows 95 (in fact I wonder how many intransigent old Smuggers also have both feet in that camp!)

Perhaps. Or it might just be that we're focussed on the needs of our end users, which happen to be different from yours.

davros · June 11, 2015

I came to SmugMug when Fotopic shut down. Although not perfect it met many of MY requirements better than a lot of the others I had seen. I have been having a look round New SmugMug and I feel it no longer does in the way that appeals to me.

I only use it share photos to forums where I think people might be interested. Also, maybe I am being misled by the way the preview works as it does not show me how I can check my stats. An option to preview as site owner would be helpful as i know the stats are there somewhere.

denisegoldberg · June 11, 2015

davros wrote: »

I only use it share photos to forums where I think people might be interested. Also, maybe I am being misled by the way the preview works as it does not show me how I can check my stats. An option to preview as site owner would be helpful as i know the stats are there somewhere.

The stats are in Account Settings... Stats... Photo views.

I don't remember the location changing between legacy and new smug but my site has been on new smug since it was first released so my memory could be faulty.

If you only use smug to share photos then why not just go ahead and migrate your site? There's an article that shows how to set up your new smug site to essentially mimic the entry point of legacy smug - http://school.smugmug.com/SmugMug-Tips/Get-the-Legacy-Look.

--- Denise

Alameth · June 11, 2015

davros wrote: »

I came to SmugMug when Fotopic shut down. Although not perfect it met many of MY requirements better than a lot of the others I had seen. I have been having a look round New SmugMug and I feel it no longer does in the way that appeals to me.

As I said, you're not alone; but I'd like to echo the recommendations from Denise and pilotdave. Old Smug is going away. So plan appropriately. Your choices are to migrate to New Smug, migrate to a different provider, or self hosting. All have their pluses and minuses. If you go with New Smug, you can be assured you'll get lots of help. If you migrate to another provider, make sure they're actually better than New Smug. (None of the ones I tried were even close.) Self-hosting mean you are the help desk, so budget your time appropriately.

And see Denise's comments about stats. They did move, but just a tiny bit.

WinsomeWorks · June 11, 2015

What I'm still very bummed about in New SmugMug (& has kept me un-motivated to switch) is the loss of badges / imbeddable slideshows. That's a biggie for me, & I was getting a huge lot of traffic that way. Yes, I know I can supposedly keep them going as long as Smug Legacy continues, even if I start working on my new site. But I think once I hit "Publish", that capability is gone, and/or it becomes impossible to make changes to the shows or badges? Very sad.

Anyway, I've simply been unable to find the required time to switch, as I only have a desktop, & sitting for long periods has been physically impossible for past months & the foreseeable future. Hence my absence from forums as well. Sitting time is very limited. I also became very discouraged & uninspired by the lack of resolution & up-to-date explanation (& lack of transparency) "from the horses' mouths" about changes in SEO implementation/strategy regarding Right-Click.

Changes were supposedly made, & not explained in a way that includes an historical SmugMug perspective, lowering trust level for some who've been around here a long time & for whom RCP is important, no matter what others say to disparage it. To this day, questions about that are unresolved, giving me little confidence that those who planned & implemented the changes took into consideration the history of why some SEO policies were the way they were, esp. regarding RCP. The net result is that SmugMug galleries show up far down the list if you have RCP, & that wasn't always the case.

It makes a difference in my thought-process about where to spend my time working on my photography. It seems SmugMug doesn't care anymore about that kind of thing (I guess it's a bothersome detail), & I wish it did, as I'd be much more evangelistic about SmugMug once again if I felt the care & historical perspective were there. I don't sense the kind of vibrancy these days that I once felt here, but part of that may just be that there are so many more fish in the sea. And most of the other fish in the sea have display pages (collages) that look almost identical. Well, I hope to have what it takes to make the switch sometime, but I understand Davros' reluctance.

LPC · June 12, 2015

Alameth wrote: »

Perhaps. Or it might just be that we're focussed on the needs of our end users, which happen to be different from yours.

My needs are just to have a very simple, good looking and easy to customize web site which will present my photographs in the best possible way. 'New' (it's nearly two years old

) Smugmug does that so much better than Legacy ever could.

jerryr · August 10, 2015

hi - just wanted to see what the status was on Legacy SmugMug ? I am asked often and I would agree with comments above (It has been 2 years, the new SmugMug is way better, etc….)

- jerryr

Alameth · August 14, 2015

jerryr wrote: »

hi - just wanted to see what the status was on Legacy SmugMug ? I am asked often and I would agree with comments above (It has been 2 years, the new SmugMug is way better, etc….)

Just got an Email this morning letting me know "Old" Smug dies on October 15. Any accounts that haven't already been migrated will be automatically migrated.

leftquark · August 14, 2015

Alameth wrote: »

Just got an Email this morning letting me know "Old" Smug dies on October 15. Any accounts that haven't already been migrated will be automatically migrated.

We just celebrated the 2 year anniversary of New SmugMug and hundreds of thousands of customers are loving it. SmugMuggers on the Old SmugMug will begin to be moved to the New SmugMug starting on October 15th and we're going to give you some time (the next 2 months) to get your sites ready and make yourself comfortable with the New SmugMug.

Your photos are safe and this is a free upgrade to the new platform. Your photos, videos, passwords, comments, reports, gallery themes, and many other things get brought over and you'll have access to all the new features available only in the New SmugMug (like the new organizer, the beautiful designs, Private Sharing, Download Buttons, Carousel and Collage display styles and so much more).

We'll be running several webinars to help with the free upgrade and we have a Help Center dedicated to this.

Lastly, I'm here on DGrin to help anyone that has more questions. There's a great resource pool here and some amazing SmugMug customers who love to help you (Denise, Mike, Alan, Nick, and the rest of you who are beyond awesome on a daily basis). Please let me know if you have specific questions or concerns!

HamsterHuey · August 15, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

We just celebrated the 2 year anniversary of New SmugMug and hundreds of thousands of customers are loving it. SmugMuggers on the Old SmugMug will begin to be moved to the New SmugMug starting on October 15th and we're going to give you some time (the next 2 months) to get your sites ready and make yourself comfortable with the New SmugMug.

Your photos are safe and this is a free upgrade to the new platform. Your photos, videos, passwords, comments, reports, gallery themes, and many other things ges brought over and you'll have access to all the new features available only in the New SmugMug (like the new organizer, the beautiful designs, Private Sharing, Download Buttons, Carousel and Collage display styles and so much more).

We'll be running several webinars to help with the free upgrade and we have a Help Center dedicated to this.

Lastly, I'm here on DGrin to help anyone that has more questions. There's a great resource pool here and some amazing SmugMug customers who love to help you (Denise, Mike, Alan, Nick, and the rest of you who are beyond awesome on a daily basis). Please let me know if you have specific questions or concerns!

I just got the email about our forced "upgrade" to the New Smugmug, and frankly, I am just absolutely appalled that even 2 years in, some absolutely basic usability issues still remain unaddressed with the "New" Smugmug...which were never issues with the Old smugmug.

To make matters worse, I, along with several others reported these as feature requests/bugs right here on the forums, hoping that they would eventually be addressed in time for the forced migration. Instead, I just see abandoned threads that never received any dev feedback, and none of these issues were even remotely addressed.

Here are some examples of threads I posted:
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=237467 - Broken image captions
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=237469 - Improving gallery navigation
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=237100 - Another image caption issue related to navigation in lightbox mode

"New" Smugmug was supposed to allow rapid development and feature introduction and bug fixes, but from where I sit, I see absolutely no benefit, just a whole bunch of unnecessary eye candy at the expense of actual usability. My list of complaints are still long and unaddressed

- Image captions are now below the fold in the gallery view, ensuring that everyone will miss them
- Image captions are by default hidden/collapsed in lightbox mode, again ensuring that no one will ever see them. Expecting the user to constantly hover to check if there are captions or not is just ridiculous
- Navigation in full-screen/lightbox mode is far less intuitive than with Old Smugmug.
- Of course, description of galleries, etc have all been gutted, making Smugmug far less useful because it no longer feels personal, nor does it allow me to guide my friends/family/guests along a story narrated in pages/galleries. Apparently this was a conscious decision, but one I just do not understand.

The key issue though, is that at the end of the day, I know that my aging parents and rest of my family who are not the most computer savvy, are going to be absolutely lost with the unintuitive layouts and navigation in the New Smugmug. The caption issues are also very very real and damaging as it means that my family and friends are most likely going to miss reading all the captions I have for my pictures, that help narrate a story and provide more information and context related to the pictures I post.

At this point, Google+/Google Photos looks like a far better option as everyone I care to share with are already on Google+ and have no issues reading captions and posting comments. Amazon Prime already lets me backup all my images and RAW files for "free". New smugmug seemed to get rid of a lot of things that made Smugmug attractive to me, all in the name of eye candy and attracting a different client base. I guess I'm happy for you guys if this worked out for you, but you will be losing this user when his subscription runs out. I am seriously disappointed in the complete lack of any support or fixes for some of these critical UI usability issues that I and others have posted about years back.

leftquark · August 15, 2015

While the Old SmugMug has served us well for the last 13 years, our designers wanted to make sure that the New SmugMug allowed your photos to shine and be the center of attention. The interface was cleaned up in order to reduce the clutter that bogged down the galleries in Old SmugMug and the photos display larger on the screen. The downside to this is that things like captions and comments, become less prominent or hidden. On the new Collage and Thumbnail gallery styles, titles and captions are displayed in the "Bottom Bar" of the photo. In SmugMug style, titles and captions are below the photo and should still be visible, although less prominent in the New SmugMug. Additionally, gallery navigation was reduced to underneath the image so they would not distract away from the photo.

While we wish we could build a service that allows everyone to have their display as they'd like, we must also balance it with the ability to make it easy to use and we've been avoiding "option overload." The majority of our customers love the clean and simpler look of the New SmugMug and that's why we haven't gone back to the Old SmugMug style of displaying galleries.

We've done several improvements since New SmugMug came out: Lightbox options were added to allow for captions and titles to not fade-away (and in fact, we've got some more UI updates coming for the lightbox), and captions can now be turned on for all slideshows.

Would you be able to expand on your mention of the Navigation in lightbox being less intuitive than in Old SmugMug? In Old SM there was a very small next and previous button above the image, which was often missed. In the New SmugMug, it's been replaced with giant left/right arrows, which are much more obvious. I find my viewers are able to browse through images in the Lightbox much easier on New SmugMug than the old. Additionally, navigating between images in New SmugMug has been improved: it has the same small left/right arrows as in Old SMugMug, except they've been moved to be centered within the photo, while Old SM centered it in the center of the page. In general, navigating galleries in New SM is the same as in Old SM or improved. We've conducted a number of user studies and we've found that customer satisfaction on New SmugMug is measurably higher.

Please do let me know if you have any specific questions that I can help you with. We understand that change can be difficult but we know that if you give it a try, you're going to agree with the many other SmugMuggers who have made the switch and are now loving New SmugMug.

AceCo55 · August 15, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

Your photos are safe and this is a free upgrade to the new platform. Your photos, videos, passwords, comments, reports, gallery themes, and many other things ges brought over and you'll have access to all the new features available only in the New SmugMug (like the new organizer, the beautiful designs, Private Sharing, Download Buttons, Carousel and Collage display styles and so much more).

We'll be running several webinars to help with the free upgrade and we have a Help Center dedicated to this.

One thing to emphasize to Legacy users would be to make sure they create a list of the passwords BEFORE the migration as they will not be able to look up the actual passwords in New Smugmug.

Once the change is made, will it continue to be called New Smugmug ... or just Smugmug?

BigAl · August 15, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

While the Old SmugMug has served us well for the last 13 years,

erm, no smug has changed in those 13 years. Lightbox?

I positively hate the new info popup. If there is no gps data available, why should that particular popup be dominated by an image saying "no map data"?

Allen · August 15, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

...

I've brought this up in the past. Your screen is obviously a selected browser size but in the real world
the Smugmug style generaly shows thumbs that are ~90px vs 100px and the main photo is smaller also.
Here's examples of old vs new. Browser size same for both.

Old portrait vs new

New superimposed over old

The larger the photo content width the smaller percent of lost width because of the page chevrons.
1867 width 9%
1257 width 13%
998 width 15%
You can probably see what the results are on laptops and pads. Smaller photos and thumbs.
The chevrons need to go and another method for page nav that doesn't interfere with size
needs to be incorporated so images widths are maxized.

leftquark · August 15, 2015

AceCo55 wrote: »

One thing to emphasize to Legacy users would be to make sure they create a list of the passwords BEFORE the migration as they will not be able to look up the actual passwords in New Smugmug.

Once the change is made, will it continue to be called New Smugmug ... or just Smugmug?

We've heard your feedback and although gallery passwords in New SmugMug will continue to remain secure, we do have some tools available to recover gallery passwords for users who have not yet published. Let the heroes know if you're in need of them

leftquark · August 15, 2015

BigAl wrote: »

erm, no smug has changed in those 13 years. Lightbox?

I positively hate the new info popup. If there is no gps data available, why should that particular popup be dominated by an image saying "no map data"?

We started working on a fix for that but never pushed it live. Thanks for the reminder! I'll see what's holding it up on Monday

leftquark · August 15, 2015

Allen wrote: »

...

Valid concerns Allen. We do our best to maximize your photos but there's always room for improvement, especially as the average screen size and device used changes over the years.

On another note, your captions, and keywords are more prominent in the NSM screenshot vs the old. Or was it just that you scrolled down more in that screenshot?

denisegoldberg · August 15, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

We started working on a fix for that but never pushed it live. Thanks for the reminder! I'll see what's holding it up on Monday

BigAl wrote: »

erm, no smug has changed in those 13 years. Lightbox?

I positively hate the new info popup. If there is no gps data available, why should that particular popup be dominated by an image saying "no map data"?

Until the fix is pushed live, it is possible to hide the map in the info popup with CSS:

/* remove empty map box from info popup */
.sm-user-ui .sm-panel-imageinfo.sm-imageinfo-nomapdata .sm-map-container,
.sm-user-ui .sm-panel-imageinfo.sm-imageinfo-nomapdata .sm-imageinfo-nomapdata-overlay {
display:none;
}
.sm-user-ui .sm-panel-imageinfo.sm-imageinfo-nomapdata .sm-imageinfo-container {
top:auto;
}

I'm going to keep an eye open for leftquark's response; I would prefer not to have unneeded CSS on my site.

--- Denise

Allen · August 15, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

Valid concerns Allen. We do our best to maximize your photos but there's always room for improvement, especially as the average screen size and device used changes over the years.

On another note, your captions, and keywords are more prominent in the NSM screenshot vs the old. Or was it just that you scrolled down more in that screenshot?

These views were taken by just toggling browser between New and Old Smug.
For each view (using same window) I scrolled down so the top of the thumbs were at the top.

Allen · August 15, 2015

BigAl wrote: »

...
I positively hate the new info popup. If there is no gps data available, why should that particular popup be dominated by an image saying "no map data"?

I agree ONLY if NONE of the photos in the gallery has geo data. The only way to find any geo tagged
photos in a gallery is pop up the info and expand it. I almost always only tag a few relevant photos in a
gallery not all of them. That "expand" message and double arrows would not show if whole gallery did not have any tagged photos.

Info with "no map data" and expand view showing photos with geo data.

AceCo55 · August 16, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

We've heard your feedback and although gallery passwords in New SmugMug will continue to remain secure, we do have some tools available to recover gallery passwords for users who have not yet published. Let the heroes know if you're in need of them

Thanks Aaron - the new system is fine by me but I read in the past that some people have published to NewSmug without realising the significance/implication for their passwords. It has caused some angst to people with lots of passwords who thought they would just be able to look them up ... and then found there was no possibility of that happening.
It was just a gentle reminder that when you develop those tutorials/resources to help people migrate, you probably make sure people have kept a copy of their important/critical passwords PRIOR to the migration

pbandj · August 16, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

In SmugMug style, titles and captions are below the photo and should still be visible, although less prominent in the New SmugMug. Additionally, gallery navigation was reduced to underneath the image so they would not distract away from the photo.

This is the main reason I haven't migrated yet...I use my site primarily as a travelogue/natural history site and the captions in smugmug gallery style are very important to me, but in new Smugmug they are "below the fold" and no one would realize they are there without scrolling down. And they are so far below the photo they look like an afterthought. I believe my family and friends actually read the captions because I get comments on them (another thing that will stop when I migrate because of the loss of anonymous commenting). It's one thing to de-emphasize the caption; it's an entirely different thing to have them off the page. I was hoping, in response to the many comments on this issue, that Smugmug might develop an alternate gallery style that would move the caption to a more prominent location and include it in the calculation of screen size so it would be visible. Obviously this isn't going to happen. I'm very disappointed.

I did sign up for an entire separate account so that I could play with new Smug without impacting my current site, so I have given it a try and played with many of the customizations people have developed for working around some of the issues. The caption issue in smugmug gallery style was the one thing keeping me from migrating.

leftquark · August 17, 2015

pbandj wrote: »

This is the main reason I haven't migrated yet...I use my site primarily as a travelogue/natural history site and the captions in smugmug gallery style are very important to me, but in new Smugmug they are "below the fold" and no one would realize they are there without scrolling down.

I spoke to our design team about this and then did some testing. SmugMug style is designed to make your photos the center of attention, however, Titles and Captions are supposed to always be displayed with enough space to let visitors know that the title and caption exist. They should never be below the fold. (unless someone added Custom CSS to move it).

I ran a test on my own site by changing the browse size. The images always resize to allow some amount of captions to be displayed:

The one instance in which captions get almost hidden is in the case with an extremely wide but very short (not tall) window. Even then, part of the caption is still displayed.

Would you be able to give me an example in which the captions are below the fold? I'd like to investigate and make sure there isn't a bug! They're definitely supposed to be visible to all your viewers!

pbandj · August 17, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

I spoke to our design team about this and then did some testing. SmugMug style is designed to make your photos the center of attention, however, Titles and Captions are supposed to always be displayed with enough space to let visitors know that the title and caption exist. They should never be below the fold. (unless someone added Custom CSS to move it).

Would you be able to give me an example in which the captions are below the fold? I'd like to investigate and make sure there isn't a bug! They're definitely supposed to be visible to all your viewers!

Thanks...I've attached a few screen shots. Here's a link to the photo I was playing with...this is my "test" smugmug account I created just to play around with new smug / templates, etc.
https://pattiandjeane.smugmug.com/Trips/Hiking/Wyoming-2012/i-Q3xq95d

I tend to use Firefox as my default browser (it's up-to-date), and when the browser is maximized, which is the way I usually run it, I can't see my captions. I've seen this problem on a few other smugmug sites as well. Here's a shot of Firefox maximized...the main photo really fills up the screen but the caption is not visible:

If I shrink the browser height just slightly, the screen resizes so that the caption appears:

In Chrome, maximized, the caption shows, but I can play around and shrink the browser just slightly and the caption will disappear in Chrome as well:

If you can give me any tips on this, it would be great; it's my big frustration!

Patti

Am I going to be forced to accept New SmugMug?

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