new canon 20d observations and pics

AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
edited October 15, 2004 in Cameras
hey guys,

i've posted some observations and some pics

right here
«13

Comments

  • dkappdkapp Registered Users Posts: 985 Major grins
    edited September 14, 2004
    Congrats on the new 20D! I look forward to seeing some of your shots.

    Dave
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    Really rather good at ISO 800. Sounds like a terrific camera. I'm curious about your purchase of the 15mm. I've thought about it, but does the extra 1mm really make much of a difference, compared to your 16-35?
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited September 15, 2004
    wxwax wrote:
    Really rather good at ISO 800. Sounds like a terrific camera. I'm curious about your purchase of the 15mm. I've thought about it, but does the extra 1mm really make much of a difference, compared to your 16-35?
    I'm jealous! I wanted to be the first on the block to have one but didn't get on the stick to get it ordered.
  • DewrGleisionDewrGleision Registered Users Posts: 159 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    Baldy wrote:
    I'm jealous! I wanted to be the first on the block to have one but didn't get on the stick to get it ordered.
    At least you can get one...
    He who throws dirt, loses ground...
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    nyah nhah!
    Baldy wrote:
    I'm jealous! I wanted to be the first on the block to have one but didn't get on the stick to get it ordered.


    blbl.gif

    blbl.gif
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    ISOs and Andy's new camera
    This is dumb, I know, I mean...........but I thought about it after I turned off the computer. I fell asleep thinking about it.

    What do you use those high number ISOs for, Andy?

    If I should have shot the "creek" at 100 ISO, nothing else.

    You shot the dentist at 200, with a fisheye, lucky you! And that was because it was handheld?

    But what about it being good at 400, 800, and above? When do you use them?

    ginger (Are Rebels just bad at that?)
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    Iso
    ginger_55 wrote:
    What do you use those high number ISOs for, Andy?

    If I should have shot the "creek" at 100 ISO, nothing else.

    You shot the dentist at 200, with a fisheye, lucky you! And that was because it was handheld?

    But what about it being good at 400, 800, and above? When do you use them?

    ginger (Are Rebels just bad at that?)

    Here is what I do. I shoot at the lowest ISO possible. By "possible" I mean can I get an exposure at the shutter speed and aperture value I want at ISO 100? If not, try 200, then 400, then 800, then finally 1600. I will choose the aperture based on the depth of field I require, and the shutter speed based on whether I want stop-action versus motion blur, if i am hand-holding versus tri-pod, etc.

    I think my Rebel does very good at ISO 100, 200 and 400. Its mediocre at 800. The only reason to use 1600 is if it is the only way to get the shot. It will be noisy. I have a Photoshop action to help deal with that, though. Don't have Noise Ninja, they don't support the Mac.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    mercphoto wrote:
    Here is what I do. I shoot at the lowest ISO possible. By "possible" I mean can I get an exposure at the shutter speed and aperture value I want at ISO 100? If not, try 200, then 400, then 800, then finally 1600. I will choose the aperture based on the depth of field I require, and the shutter speed based on whether I want stop-action versus motion blur, if i am hand-holding versus tri-pod, etc.

    I think my Rebel does very good at ISO 100, 200 and 400. Its mediocre at 800. The only reason to use 1600 is if it is the only way to get the shot. It will be noisy. I have a Photoshop action to help deal with that, though. Don't have Noise Ninja, they don't support the Mac.
    Thanks for the response. Your photoshop action, is it a plug in? I am asking only because of the Shem Creek photo.

    If it were a free thing, or something you just do, I could try it. It was shot at 400. And underexposed.

    I think I am going to have an easier time when I get my Rebel back, it never worked right on the manual settings. When it quit working on aperture priority, I just quit using it, but when it wouldn't show ISO, WB, the tmer button wouldn't work, and who knows what all, on any manual type setting, I had to take my head out of the sand.

    And I used it on programmable modes a lot until the last few weeks, too. I am going to have to be savvy about the ISO, AV, TV, RAW, etc. just to make sure the darn thing is working right while it is under warranty.

    All the manual things were deeply ingrained in me for years, then the cameras started doing it all for me, even my last $2000.00 (or something like that) Nikon. Now I am having to learn to think again. And just before I turn 65, too. Terrible time to take up thinking.

    If you have an easy thing to take care of the noise after the fact, let me know. I know you posted on my photo last night, nicely, at least I think you did, so you know what I am talking about: Shem Creek

    (I have windows, but no reason to buy anything else right now, Laughing.gif. Zip.
    Guess I will have to take my photos right in the future, or try.)

    Smile, ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    ginger_55 wrote:
    Thanks for the response. Your photoshop action, is it a plug in? I am asking only because of the Shem Creek photo.

    If it were a free thing, or something you just do, I could try it. It was shot at 400. And underexposed.

    I got it from here:
    http://home.att.net/~ncarboni/DigiPhoto.html

    It cost $15 I think. Its a collection of Photoshop Actions, three of which are noise reduction (in 3 levels of aggressiveness). I've been happy with the actions, but I'm no power-user of Photoshop. I do not know if better actions exist to do the same thing or not. Other actions include exposure change for JPG's, an action called "shadows" which ups the exposure of the dark areas only, and a few other widgets. I know the guy personally from my Corvette days, so I trusted buying stuff from him. :)

    They are easy to use, Ginger. He tells you how to "install" them (really simple). Then to use them you grab a photo, select an action, and hit play.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    mercphoto wrote:
    I got it from here:
    http://home.att.net/~ncarboni/DigiPhoto.html

    It cost $15 I think. Its a collection of Photoshop Actions, three of which are noise reduction (in 3 levels of aggressiveness). I've been happy with the actions, but I'm no power-user of Photoshop. I do not know if better actions exist to do the same thing or not. Other actions include exposure change for JPG's, an action called "shadows" which ups the exposure of the dark areas only, and a few other widgets. I know the guy personally from my Corvette days, so I trusted buying stuff from him. :)

    They are easy to use, Ginger. He tells you how to "install" them (really simple). Then to use them you grab a photo, select an action, and hit play.
    Thanks, Bill. I bookmarked them. There is like a 30 day free trial period. I might get it and try it over the weekend...........on Shem Creek. Cartainly a picture to try it on, we have all seen it every which way.

    Thanks, again,
    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    when to shoot at high isos
    ginger_55 wrote:
    This is dumb, I know, I mean...........but I thought about it after I turned off the computer. I fell asleep thinking about it.

    What do you use those high number ISOs for, Andy?

    If I should have shot the "creek" at 100 ISO, nothing else.

    You shot the dentist at 200, with a fisheye, lucky you! And that was because it was handheld?

    But what about it being good at 400, 800, and above? When do you use them?

    ginger (Are Rebels just bad at that?)

    ginger - i'll use high isos for indoor, lowlight photography. i'll use the lowest iso that still allows me the shutter speed and aperture combination i need to use.

    so, if i'm at iso 100, and i want f/2.8, and my meter tells me 1/10th second, i'll boost the iso if i want to get to 1/30th or 1/60th sec. boost it all the way to 1600 or 3200 if i need to, say indoors covering a hockey game or gymnastics - i want a faaaaaaaast shutter speed. the only way to get there sometimes is really fast glass and a high iso.

    the rebel is good at 800, repairable at 1600 (nr software). the 20d? it's super good at iso 1600!

    does this help?
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    andy wrote:
    ginger - i'll use high isos for indoor, lowlight photography. i'll use the lowest iso that still allows me the shutter speed and aperture combination i need to use.

    so, if i'm at iso 100, and i want f/2.8, and my meter tells me 1/10th second, i'll boost the iso if i want to get to 1/30th or 1/60th sec. boost it all the way to 1600 or 3200 if i need to, say indoors covering a hockey game or gymnastics - i want a faaaaaaaast shutter speed. the only way to get there sometimes is really fast glass and a high iso.

    the rebel is good at 800, repairable at 1600 (nr software). the 20d? it's super good at iso 1600!

    does this help?
    Thanks, Andy, that was second nature to me with a film Camera, before the latest Nikon that I got in the 90s where it would go programmable, either way.

    I always used fast film, never gave a thought to pushing it. But the shutter speeds, aperture, they were just second nature. Reading your info, I can tell I have gotten slack, now it requires thinking (brain pain:D ). I usually put the ISO, whatever on, I set the camera up before I leave the house.

    I do have a flashlight................ I guess it will get a workout when I get my camera back.

    ginger

    I never shot scenics either, except on an unusual trip to the Colorado mountains one year, I got carried away. But I used tri X, this is a different mind set.
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    new 20d - color and b&w at the same time
    i posted the info here
  • dkappdkapp Registered Users Posts: 985 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    mercphoto wrote:
    Don't have Noise Ninja, they don't support the Mac.

    They started supporting Mac OSX a few months ago. I used the beta for awhile before the final release, and it was great. I've not purchased it yet.

    http://www.picturecode.com/download.htm

    Dave
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    dkapp wrote:
    They started supporting Mac OSX a few months ago. I used the beta for awhile before the final release, and it was great. I've not purchased it yet.

    http://www.picturecode.com/download.htm

    Dave
    Dave, how well does Noise Ninja work?

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    noise reduction choices
    ginger_55 wrote:
    Dave, how well does Noise Ninja work?

    ginger

    i use noise ninja, works great. i also use fred miranda's isox pro. depends on my mood.
  • tmlphototmlphoto Registered Users Posts: 1,444 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    andy wrote:
    the rebel is good at 800, repairable at 1600 (nr software). the 20d? it's super good at iso 1600!
    Interesting comment Andy. I am considering upgrading from the 10D to 20D. The lower noise at higher ISO was one of the features that seemed to be worth upgrading. However, I believe it was on the Luminous Landscape site that the review stated that there was'nt a noticible improvement in the noise levels with corresponding ISO's. He even used some type of software to analyze the noise. What do you think?
    Thomas :D

    TML Photography
    tmlphoto.com
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    bah!
    tmlphoto wrote:
    Interesting comment Andy. I am considering upgrading from the 10D to 20D. The lower noise at higher ISO was one of the features that seemed to be worth upgrading. However, I believe it was on the Luminous Landscape site that the review stated that there was'nt a noticible improvement in the noise levels with corresponding ISO's. He even used some type of software to analyze the noise. What do you think?

    for me, it's in the shots. i can't speak for the tests that some folks do. all i can say is that 1600 on the 20d looks like 800 on the 10d. 3200 on the 20d looks better than 1600 on the 10d!
  • tmlphototmlphoto Registered Users Posts: 1,444 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    andy wrote:
    for me, it's in the shots. i can't speak for the tests that some folks do. all i can say is that 1600 on the 20d looks like 800 on the 10d. 3200 on the 20d looks better than 1600 on the 10d!
    That good news. I'm on the edge of springing for the 20D. Hopefully, my local dealer will get their shipment soon. So far they aren't spoken for. BTW, I handled a 1DMKII the other day. Boy is that sucker is heavy, not to mention the price.
    Thomas :D

    TML Photography
    tmlphoto.com
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    andy wrote:
    hey guys,

    i've posted some observations and some pics

    right here
    Oh crap! I have had to endure viewing fantastic photos with unique perspectives, and superb technical qualities from London to San Francisco. Now I'll have to look at them in even finer detail!

    I'm gona go eat worms.......................

    Sam
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    I'm with you, Sam. I am with you...........in spirit. Eat some worms, and then you cry. You take care of the worms.

    I'll be looking at great handheld 1600 ISO shots while I am outside with a tripod, trying to figure out settings to keep my camera 100 ISO.

    g
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    What kind of camera do you have, Sam?

    On your morning walk, do you take a tripod?

    ginger again
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    ginger dear!
    ginger_55 wrote:
    I'm with you, Sam. I am with you...........in spirit. Eat some worms, and then you cry. You take care of the worms.

    I'll be looking at great handheld 1600 ISO shots while I am outside with a tripod, trying to figure out settings to keep my camera 100 ISO.

    g

    situational photography (street photography) is handheld. indoors, with low light, i'll shoot iso 1600 or now even iso 3200.

    nightshots, like a citiscape, or shem creek, are best at iso 100, which dicates a tripod :D the longer exposures at high isos in the dark or fading light of nightshots, will often make even the low-noise sensors of the canon dslrs produce noisier images. so, imo, for nightshots, iso 100's best. unless you are shooting in a club or something, where you want a faster shutter speed :D
  • GuzzlerGuzzler Registered Users Posts: 73 Big grins
    edited September 15, 2004
    I have a hard drive full of images that are non-usable because I keep forgetting to increase the ISO. :cry
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited September 16, 2004
    ginger_55 wrote:
    What kind of camera do you have, Sam?

    On your morning walk, do you take a tripod?

    ginger again
    GHinger,

    I have the 20D's red headed step child, the digital Rebel.
    Morning walk? I goes to work . We gets no holidays, we works 7 days per week 24 hours per day. :D

    I did buy a nice mono pod. That seems to be more convient for hiking, but not as good as a tripod, especially at the top of a mountain when your huffing like a steam locomotive. Then it seems to lunge around like a drunk on a roller coaster.1drink.gif

    But it's a darn fine wacking tool. (Remove camera first)

    Sam
  • tmshotstmshots Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited September 18, 2004
    ginger_55 wrote:
    This is dumb, I know, I mean...........but I thought about it after I turned off the computer. I fell asleep thinking about it.

    What do you use those high number ISOs for, Andy?

    If I should have shot the "creek" at 100 ISO, nothing else.

    You shot the dentist at 200, with a fisheye, lucky you! And that was because it was handheld?

    But what about it being good at 400, 800, and above? When do you use them?

    ginger (Are Rebels just bad at that?)
    ISO speeds and when they are good? Not really good but needed when in an uncontrolled environment. I shoot bodybuilding and fitness shows quite a bit and we dont have a choice at times. Some lighting and stages are set where 400 is good as it gets while others are just so darn dark that 1600 is your only choice. For this monopods are a great thing to have! We are expected sometimes to be able to take incredible shots in crappy lighting, having the ISO's just allows us to (not always) take a passible picture. But that is the need for those high number ISO's
    An example if I may
    this was shot at 400 ISO at 1/200 shutter speed (that being because of flash) You can see that it is still a little dark and a tad soft. (forgot that ever loved monopod I mentioned). Luckly PS is around to help me out but this pic is untouched.
    Well except that it was sized to load.
  • wingerwinger Registered Users Posts: 694 Major grins
    edited September 21, 2004
    ginger_55 wrote:
    This is dumb, I know, I mean...........but I thought about it after I turned off the computer. I fell asleep thinking about it.

    What do you use those high number ISOs for, Andy?

    If I should have shot the "creek" at 100 ISO, nothing else.

    You shot the dentist at 200, with a fisheye, lucky you! And that was because it was handheld?

    But what about it being good at 400, 800, and above? When do you use them?

    ginger (Are Rebels just bad at that?)
    I shoot mostly sports and you really need the higher iso for the action. I can do some sports at lower isos, but with the rebel I find my hockey photos are uber grainy. But since the season has ended I have gotten a L-series 200 lens and my 20d is supposed to be arriving today. SO I can not wait for the first puck drop.

    And I see Andy already mentioned about hockey. oh well I am not one to read through.

    Hehe soccer game tommorow, I up my 20d will be up the the task.
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,693 moderator
    edited September 25, 2004
    mercphoto wrote:
    Don't have Noise Ninja, they don't support the Mac.
    Noise Ninja 2.0 does support the MAC! 1drink.gif

    See www.picturecode.com
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • ~Rachel~~Rachel~ Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited September 26, 2004
    I am soooo envious of those with DSLR's!
  • Steve CaviglianoSteve Cavigliano Super Moderators Posts: 3,599 moderator
    edited September 27, 2004
    Watch out what you wish for Rachel ;-)

    While the image quality is much better and you can get some seriously shallow DOF's with Dslr's, there's the other side of the coin to consider. Like the money you need to spend just to board the Dslr bus. Plus, if you're anything like me (or the golf shooter Andy posted a pic of, or Andy for that matter ;-) you will always be lusting after another lens, or two (I never thought I'd be lusting after a lens, I must be getting old....lol). Where you used to be able to go out with just a cam and a tripod, you'll now be carrying a pack loaded with lenses. And of course, the shot you'd like to get will always require you to change the lens that's currently attached to the camera rolleyes1.gif

    Not only will you have to clean the sensor occassionally, you'll also have to clean your lenses (on both ends....lol).

    Since I will be boarding that ol' Dslr bus soon, the above is a bit tongue-in-cheek ;-) But, the money part is correct. I'm trying to keep my costs under $3000 and I'm having a hard time of it. I guess I could go for a used (or even new) 10D and be able to apply $500 more towards better glass. But, I really NEED the 20D's continuous shooting capabilities (indoor and outdoor sports shooting). OK, maybe NEED is too strong of a word....lol

    It sure is a great time to be a digital photography buff. Even if you can't move into the high end, right now, there are some awesome cameras to dream about iloveyou.gif

    Steve
    SmugMug Support Hero
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