Impressions
So far I'm very happy with auto-white-balance on my 20D. Was one of my biggest gripes on the Rebel was how often AWB failed. I will be able to shoot JPG more often in difficult situations, which is a big plus for me. I'm not a fan of shooting RAW.
Another plus is the incredibly short mirror black-out time. This is especially helpful during bursting.
And while I've only used the pop-up flash so far, ETTL-2 seems to be a big winner too. So far I'm happy with the 20D.
Sample images
Some sample images from my new Canon 20D. Mostly done with a 28-135 lens, though a few were with a 70-200/2.8. All were with auto white balance, captured JPG in-camera (large fine). A range of ISO's, a range of lighting conditions, some with the pop-up flash. No post-processing whatsoever.
They look really nice to me. How do they look to you?
I'm pretty impressed with the lack of noise in the ISO1600 still life and with the DR in the cat and white goose shots. If I wasn't already going to buy a 20D, these shots would help cement my choice
I think you should call in sick tomorrow morning. Just tell them that your camera needs to spend some more quality time with you.....lol
This firmware fixes the problem of the shutter release not working when a lens is removed or a lens is attached when the camera is in auto power off mode, and improves the reliability when using some CF cards.
I updated my 20D to firmware 1.0.5 this morning. When I first tried to update the firmware, I had the extracted firmware file to a 16 Mb Lexar card, and this seemed to crash the update sequence in my 20D, such that I had to remove the battery to turn it off. And the update failed - Thabkfully this did not seem to harm the camera. Hmmm....
Anyway I wrote the firmware file to a Sandisk 256 Mb card and everything went just fine. Camera still works and lists the firmware now as 1.0.5
If you elect to update your firmware to 1.0.5 - REMEMBER - Remove ANY lens from the camera first - this seems to confuse things on some updates per Canon's website - that was why the quik upgrade from 1.0.4 to 1.0.5.
I spent some time reading the 20d review today (at work). The images look
great. Some of the features are clearly better than the 10d.
But one question, why not a 1Ds MKII instead?
Ian
You're putting me on, right!??
The 1DsMkll is not available yet, and will retail for $8,000, vs $1500 for the 20D. Also the 20D is much smaller and lighter to carry around as well. If price and weight are not a concern, then certainly the 1DsMKll will remain the epitome of the digital full 35mm frame DSLR.
You're putting me on, right!??
The 1DsMkll is not available yet, and will retail for $8,000, vs $1500 for the 20D. Also the 20D is much smaller and lighter to carry around as well. If price and weight are not a concern, then certainly the 1DsMKll will remain the epitome of the digital full 35mm frame DSLR.
I was thinking more from a pro vs. consumer perspective. If you look at the sports guys, they're all using 1D's of some flavor or another.
But then again, maybe at some level, it matters more who is taking the shot
than what they use to take it?
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
I was thinking more from a pro vs. consumer perspective. If you look at the sports guys, they're all using 1D's of some flavor or another.
But then again, maybe at some level, it matters more who is taking the shot than what they use to take it?
To some degree, yes. On the other hand, there is a reason why the pros spend the bucks on a 1-series camera. Very, very fast and accurate auto-focus. Excellent moving subject tracking. Lots of focus points. Very fast bursting. Built-in grip. All these things mean a 1-series will create better images with a higher "hit rate" (ie. a higher percentage of the shots are usuable).
To some degree, yes. On the other hand, there is a reason why the pros spend the bucks on a 1-series camera. Very, very fast and accurate auto-focus. Excellent moving subject tracking. Lots of focus points. Very fast bursting. Built-in grip. All these things mean a 1-series will create better images with a higher "hit rate" (ie. a higher percentage of the shots are usuable).
I might be mixing my reviews but I thought the 20d had improved AF and higher
frame rate? The grip for the 20d is "only" US$169. Plus batteries
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
I might be mixing my reviews but I thought the 20d had improved AF and higher
frame rate? The grip for the 20d is "only" US$169. Plus batteries
Improved AF? Yes. But not to Mark-II standards. Ditto on frame rate, better but not as fast (5 versus 8.5). Buffer depth on 20D is also smaller. Built-in grips feel more solid than bolt-ons, but a bolt-on can be removed to make the camera smaller.
In my opinion, the 20D is a baby Mark-II more than it is an improved 10D. The 20D might make all but the hard-core Mark-II fans wonder why they don't have three 20D's versus one Mark-II.
I updated my 20D to firmware 1.0.5 this morning. When I first tried to update the firmware, I had the extracted firmware file to a 16 Mb Lexar card, and this seemed to crash the update sequence in my 20D, such that I had to remove the battery to turn it off. And the update failed - Thabkfully this did not seem to harm the camera. Hmmm....
Anyway I wrote the firmware file to a Sandisk 256 Mb card and everything went just fine. Camera still works and lists the firmware now as 1.0.5
If you elect to update your firmware to 1.0.5 - REMEMBER - Remove ANY lens from the camera first - this seems to confuse things on some updates per Canon's website - that was why the quik upgrade from 1.0.4 to 1.0.5.
I just got my 20D Sunday, 1st dSLR... comments about firmware updates are making me nervous. Any tips for a 1st time updater? Is it something that should be done asap, or ok to wait a bit till I am more comfortable with the camera? Thanks (by the way, this is my 1st post, hope its right) Sheila
In my opinion, the 20D is a baby Mark-II more than it is an improved 10D. The 20D might make all but the hard-core Mark-II fans wonder why they don't have three 20D's versus one Mark-II.
I think this sums it up nicely. And the delta in price means you can afford to
upgrade as technology changes.
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
I just got my 20D Sunday, 1st dSLR... comments about firmware updates are making me nervous. Any tips for a 1st time updater? Is it something that should be done asap, or ok to wait a bit till I am more comfortable with the camera? Thanks (by the way, this is my 1st post, hope its right) Sheila
The instructions are pretty straight forward.
If this is your first time, download the new software. Print a copy of the
instructions and read through them as many times as it takes to make you
feel comfortable. You can "practice" if you like but the process is really
quite simple.
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
Improved AF? Yes. But not to Mark-II standards. Ditto on frame rate, better but not as fast (5 versus 8.5). Buffer depth on 20D is also smaller. Built-in grips feel more solid than bolt-ons, but a bolt-on can be removed to make the camera smaller.
In my opinion, the 20D is a baby Mark-II more than it is an improved 10D. The 20D might make all but the hard-core Mark-II fans wonder why they don't have three 20D's versus one Mark-II.
A big difference between the 20D and the 1DMkll or the 1DsMkll is that the 1 series cameras have a substantially brighter image through the viewfinder and the viewfinder allows interchangeable focus screens to allow manual focus. This is not too signficant for most amateurs, but if you need to use the Tilt&shift lenses that Canon makes - autofocus may not work well when they are shifted - they may need to be manually focused. The 20D does not offer interchangeable viewfinder screens. The 1 series also allow simultaneous recording of images on CF and SD cards so that there is more than one copy of the images being stored. This may be important for photographers who are being paid to deliver the goods.
The view through the 20D viewfinder is not real bright either, but won't be noticed by most folks unless they have a 1series camera to compare it too. The autofocus on the 20D is signifcantly faster than the 10D, but is also definately slower than a 1DMkll. On the other hand, the 20D is much smaller and ligher than the 1DMkll. And it is 1/3 the price.
I think the poster is correct that for busy working photo-journalists that the robust build and features of the 1DMkll or the 1DsMkll will prevail. But for those folks for whom the camera is NOT a tool to generate revenue will look at the equation differently and favor a 20D. Both will make excellent images in the hands of a skilled user.
One of the bads things about owning really nice cameras, is that then people expect you to produce excellent images, and in the hands of one unwilling to do the leg work, those nice cameras just create a lot of poor high quality snapshots.
I think the poster is correct that for busy working photo-journalists that the robust build and features of the 1DMkll or the 1DsMkll will prevail. But for those folks for whom the camera is NOT a tool to generate revenue will look at the equation differently and favor a 20D. Both will make excellent images in the hands of a skilled user.
What is the difference between the 1D and the 1Ds line of cameras? What does the "s" signify?
What is the difference between the 1D and the 1Ds line of cameras? What does the "s" signify?
I'm no expert, but here what I know (or think I know ). The 1D series is based on a detector that is smaller than film, thus the 1.3 conversion factor. The 1Ds series is based on a full sized detector = to a 35mm negative size, so no conversion factor. The 1Ds is the high megapixel, was 11 , now 16mp, camera marketed to landscape and portrait photogs that want every pixel possible, but don't need the speed of the 1D. The 1D is marketed as the sports/photojournalism camera for those that want high frames/sec, but don't need the extra pixels. No clue about the "s".
I'm no expert, but here what I know (or think I know ). The 1D series is based on a detector that is smaller than film, thus the 1.3 conversion factor. The 1Ds series is based on a full sized detector = to a 35mm negative size, so no conversion factor. The 1Ds is the high megapixel, was 11 , now 16mp, camera marketed to landscape and portrait photogs that want every pixel possible, but don't need the speed of the 1D. The 1D is marketed as the sports/photojournalism camera for those that want high frames/sec, but don't need the extra pixels. No clue about the "s".
I could not have said it better Thomas
I don't know what the 's' stands for either But your description of the potential users of the 1DMkll and the 1DsMkll are what is generally accepted as verbatim. The 1D and the 1Ds (Mkll versions) are described as having world class build quality suitable for hard daily professional useage.
I just got my 20D Sunday, 1st dSLR... comments about firmware updates are making me nervous. Any tips for a 1st time updater? Is it something that should be done asap, or ok to wait a bit till I am more comfortable with the camera? Thanks (by the way, this is my 1st post, hope its right) Sheila
Don't let my experience worry you too much, Sheila. Go here http://www.dpreview.com/news/0410/04100701canon_eos20dfw105.asp and you can read about installing the firmware update and find the link to the Canon firmware download link. After the file is downloaded, clicking on it will cause it to create a folder with the actual firmware file which you will then copy to a formatted CF card.
One point I would like to emphasize and this is not real obvious - YOU MUST DO THE UPDATING OF FIRMWARE ON THE 20D WITH NO LENS IN PLACE ON THE CAMERA BODY - for some reason, some people had difficulty upgrading the firmware with a lens in place on the body, so Canon is recommending removing the lens and replacing it with the black lens mount cover that came with the 20D.
As I said - my inital trial at upgrading with a Lexar 16MbCF chip did not seem to work and I had to remove the battery to stop the drive light on the camera - I was a little concerned, but i just reinstalled the battery and used a Sandisk 512Mb card and things went as advertised. My camera works fine and now list firmware 1.0.5
Don't let my experience worry you too much, Sheila. Go here http://www.dpreview.com/news/0410/04100701canon_eos20dfw105.asp and you can read about installing the firmware update and find the link to the Canon firmware download link. After the file is downloaded, clicking on it will cause it to create a folder with the actual firmware file which you will then copy to a formatted CF card.
One point I would like to emphasize and this is not real obvious - YOU MUST DO THE UPDATING OF FIRMWARE ON THE 20D WITH NO LENS IN PLACE ON THE CAMERA BODY - for some reason, some people had difficulty upgrading the firmware with a lens in place on the body, so Canon is recommending removing the lens and replacing it with the black lens mount cover that came with the 20D.
As I said - my inital trial at upgrading with a Lexar 16MbCF chip did not seem to work and I had to remove the battery to stop the drive light on the camera - I was a little concerned, but i just reinstalled the battery and used a Sandisk 512Mb card and things went as advertised. My camera works fine and now list firmware 1.0.5
As I said - my inital trial at upgrading with a Lexar 16MbCF chip did not seem to work and I had to remove the battery to stop the drive light on the camera - I was a little concerned, but i just reinstalled the battery and used a Sandisk 512Mb card and things went as advertised. My camera works fine and now list firmware 1.0.5
This is probably a dumb question...but... Like I said... I am NEW at this.
is it ok to use the same cf card I am shooting pics on if the card has no pics? Or should I have a second card for the firmware updates?
Thanks...Sheila
This is probably a dumb question...but... Like I said... I am NEW at this.
is it ok to use the same cf card I am shooting pics on if the card has no pics? Or should I have a second card for the firmware updates?
Thanks...Sheila
It's ok to use the same card. I would suggest you format the card (using the
camera) first.
BTW, it never hurts to have a spare card or so.
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
Comments
http://www.xney.com/Pictures/2004-10-02-NatureMacro20D
Here is one sample:
So far, the 20D is an improvement on the 10D in almost all areas.
If you're a Canon DSLR owner, the 50mm macro lens is a pretty good value and good lens, too.
-Karl
So far I'm very happy with auto-white-balance on my 20D. Was one of my biggest gripes on the Rebel was how often AWB failed. I will be able to shoot JPG more often in difficult situations, which is a big plus for me. I'm not a fan of shooting RAW.
Another plus is the incredibly short mirror black-out time. This is especially helpful during bursting.
And while I've only used the pop-up flash so far, ETTL-2 seems to be a big winner too. So far I'm happy with the 20D.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Some sample images from my new Canon 20D. Mostly done with a 28-135 lens, though a few were with a 70-200/2.8. All were with auto white balance, captured JPG in-camera (large fine). A range of ISO's, a range of lighting conditions, some with the pop-up flash. No post-processing whatsoever.
http://mercphoto.smugmug.com/gallery/241605
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
They look really nice to me. How do they look to you?
I'm pretty impressed with the lack of noise in the ISO1600 still life and with the DR in the cat and white goose shots. If I wasn't already going to buy a 20D, these shots would help cement my choice
I think you should call in sick tomorrow morning. Just tell them that your camera needs to spend some more quality time with you.....lol
Steve
I'm very happy as well. The AWB seems to actually work. ISO 800 is very usable, as is 1600. Impressive. Nice image quality.
Weather permitting, 7th grade football tomorrow night, dirt bikes on Saturday.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
ISO 3200 -- allowed me to shoot indoors without flash and at f/4 instead of f2.8 at 1600. Being able to do so in a low noise manner is a real treat!
Lee
What does it fix?
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Wow, that was at 3200? Amazing.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Check again, they released 1.0.5, to fix a bug with 1.0.4.
I updated my 20D to firmware 1.0.5 this morning. When I first tried to update the firmware, I had the extracted firmware file to a 16 Mb Lexar card, and this seemed to crash the update sequence in my 20D, such that I had to remove the battery to turn it off. And the update failed - Thabkfully this did not seem to harm the camera. Hmmm....
Anyway I wrote the firmware file to a Sandisk 256 Mb card and everything went just fine. Camera still works and lists the firmware now as 1.0.5
If you elect to update your firmware to 1.0.5 - REMEMBER - Remove ANY lens from the camera first - this seems to confuse things on some updates per Canon's website - that was why the quik upgrade from 1.0.4 to 1.0.5.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
great. Some of the features are clearly better than the 10d.
But one question, why not a 1Ds MKII instead?
Ian
You're putting me on, right!??
The 1DsMkll is not available yet, and will retail for $8,000, vs $1500 for the 20D. Also the 20D is much smaller and lighter to carry around as well. If price and weight are not a concern, then certainly the 1DsMKll will remain the epitome of the digital full 35mm frame DSLR.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Lee
But then again, maybe at some level, it matters more who is taking the shot
than what they use to take it?
Ian
To some degree, yes. On the other hand, there is a reason why the pros spend the bucks on a 1-series camera. Very, very fast and accurate auto-focus. Excellent moving subject tracking. Lots of focus points. Very fast bursting. Built-in grip. All these things mean a 1-series will create better images with a higher "hit rate" (ie. a higher percentage of the shots are usuable).
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
frame rate? The grip for the 20d is "only" US$169. Plus batteries
Ian
Improved AF? Yes. But not to Mark-II standards. Ditto on frame rate, better but not as fast (5 versus 8.5). Buffer depth on 20D is also smaller. Built-in grips feel more solid than bolt-ons, but a bolt-on can be removed to make the camera smaller.
In my opinion, the 20D is a baby Mark-II more than it is an improved 10D. The 20D might make all but the hard-core Mark-II fans wonder why they don't have three 20D's versus one Mark-II.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I just got my 20D Sunday, 1st dSLR... comments about firmware updates are making me nervous. Any tips for a 1st time updater? Is it something that should be done asap, or ok to wait a bit till I am more comfortable with the camera? Thanks (by the way, this is my 1st post, hope its right) Sheila
upgrade as technology changes.
Ian
If this is your first time, download the new software. Print a copy of the
instructions and read through them as many times as it takes to make you
feel comfortable. You can "practice" if you like but the process is really
quite simple.
Ian
A big difference between the 20D and the 1DMkll or the 1DsMkll is that the 1 series cameras have a substantially brighter image through the viewfinder and the viewfinder allows interchangeable focus screens to allow manual focus. This is not too signficant for most amateurs, but if you need to use the Tilt&shift lenses that Canon makes - autofocus may not work well when they are shifted - they may need to be manually focused. The 20D does not offer interchangeable viewfinder screens. The 1 series also allow simultaneous recording of images on CF and SD cards so that there is more than one copy of the images being stored. This may be important for photographers who are being paid to deliver the goods.
The view through the 20D viewfinder is not real bright either, but won't be noticed by most folks unless they have a 1series camera to compare it too. The autofocus on the 20D is signifcantly faster than the 10D, but is also definately slower than a 1DMkll. On the other hand, the 20D is much smaller and ligher than the 1DMkll. And it is 1/3 the price.
I think the poster is correct that for busy working photo-journalists that the robust build and features of the 1DMkll or the 1DsMkll will prevail. But for those folks for whom the camera is NOT a tool to generate revenue will look at the equation differently and favor a 20D. Both will make excellent images in the hands of a skilled user.
One of the bads things about owning really nice cameras, is that then people expect you to produce excellent images, and in the hands of one unwilling to do the leg work, those nice cameras just create a lot of poor high quality snapshots.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
What is the difference between the 1D and the 1Ds line of cameras? What does the "s" signify?
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
TML Photography
tmlphoto.com
I could not have said it better Thomas
I don't know what the 's' stands for either
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Don't let my experience worry you too much, Sheila. Go here http://www.dpreview.com/news/0410/04100701canon_eos20dfw105.asp and you can read about installing the firmware update and find the link to the Canon firmware download link. After the file is downloaded, clicking on it will cause it to create a folder with the actual firmware file which you will then copy to a formatted CF card.
The Canon website has the task described in great detail - just follow the bouncing ball so to speak.:D here http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eos20d/eos20d_firmware-e.html
One point I would like to emphasize and this is not real obvious - YOU MUST DO THE UPDATING OF FIRMWARE ON THE 20D WITH NO LENS IN PLACE ON THE CAMERA BODY - for some reason, some people had difficulty upgrading the firmware with a lens in place on the body, so Canon is recommending removing the lens and replacing it with the black lens mount cover that came with the 20D.
As I said - my inital trial at upgrading with a Lexar 16MbCF chip did not seem to work and I had to remove the battery to stop the drive light on the camera - I was a little concerned, but i just reinstalled the battery and used a Sandisk 512Mb card and things went as advertised. My camera works fine and now list firmware 1.0.5
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
i too, followed canon's instructions and had no probs with the firmware update.
it's a cinch
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This is probably a dumb question...but... Like I said... I am NEW at this.
is it ok to use the same cf card I am shooting pics on if the card has no pics? Or should I have a second card for the firmware updates?
Thanks...Sheila
camera) first.
BTW, it never hurts to have a spare card or so.
Ian