You getting your virus definitions all primed up and ready? Second MAC virus reported you know. And I bet there are a bunch of zero day exploits hanging out there just waiting :-)
A) Not a virus.
Not a single virus. Not one. Nada. Zilch.
C) The "trojan horse" from a few days ago is far from harmful, not even worth mentioning.
D) The security hole from today is a concern, and I've taken the appropriate steps.
E) Yes, the Mac is vulnerable, just a heck of a lot more secure than PCs. Just because my Camry will break down doesn't mean that I won't favor it over some other car with a poor repair history.
A) Not a virus.
semantics. People will and do call these things viruses regardless of the technical mumbo specifics.
Not a single virus. Not one. Nada. Zilch.
Oh, like it's not going to happen?!?! This is bad thinking to rely on. Just because something has not happened yet doesn't mean it can't.
C) The "trojan horse" from a few days ago is far from harmful, not even worth mentioning.
This one maybe, but attacks often start from small harmless first steps to test defenses. If the defenses are found to be lacking, the full force shows up. The simple fact that they are testing the locks and finding some open, regardless of what was found behind the door, means that they now have their sights on you. This is no time to say "oh it's probably just the wind" and roll over for more sleep.
D) The security hole from today is a concern, and I've taken the appropriate steps.
Good to hear.
E) Yes, the Mac is vulnerable, just a heck of a lot more secure than PCs. Just because my Camry will break down doesn't mean that I won't favor it over some other car with a poor repair history.
I can agree there.
F) It's not fugly.
I'm not all that picky. Once we got away from DOS I was happy I am using XP but with the classic interface. I don't like all the fancy stuff.
G) Case closed.
What is in this case you keep talking about. And why can't you open it? I have a few skills in lock-picking, I might be able to help
Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
A) Not a virus.
semantics. People will and do call these things viruses regardless of the technical mumbo specifics.
Not a single virus. Not one. Nada. Zilch.
Oh, like it's not going to happen?!?! This is bad thinking to rely on. Just because something has not happened yet doesn't mean it can't.
C) The "trojan horse" from a few days ago is far from harmful, not even worth mentioning.
This one maybe, but attacks often start from small harmless first steps to test defenses. If the defenses are found to be lacking, the full force shows up. The simple fact that they are testing the locks and finding some open, regardless of what was found behind the door, means that they now have their sights on you. This is no time to say "oh it's probably just the wind" and roll over for more sleep.
D) The security hole from today is a concern, and I've taken the appropriate steps.
Good to hear.
E) Yes, the Mac is vulnerable, just a heck of a lot more secure than PCs. Just because my Camry will break down doesn't mean that I won't favor it over some other car with a poor repair history.
I can agree there.
F) It's not fugly.
I'm not all that picky. Once we got away from DOS I was happy I am using XP but with the classic interface. I don't like all the fancy stuff.
G) Case closed.
What is in this case you keep talking about. And why can't you open it? I have a few skills in lock-picking, I might be able to help
Shay, we really agree on all points. Except I made the right decision and you made the wrong one. Pity, that.
I would have expected a bigger difference between the two.
I agree.
More data for this argument. We just tested a dual-processor (multi-processor, not dual-core) Xeon 2.8 GHz workstation w/ 2 GB of RAM. Unfortuantely he does not have Photoshop CS or CS2, only Photoshop 7. But it ran the radial blur test in 1:28!
Pretty comparable IMHO to the dual G5 PowerMac I tested at the Mac shop last week. (Which scored 1:23.) I should add that we didn't do anything special to prep for this test. He was running several apps, including an AIM clone, the process meter and a few other tools I know to have measurable (although light) impact on performance. The machine was also fresh off a 4+ hour render in Digital Fusion.
Shay's not enlightened, but he doesn't know it. So that's OK, I guess, because he's unaware. No worries there then!
My father, the 71 year old jewish kid turned buddhist told a story this weekend about a frog and a fish in the pond. The frog says, "I'm gonna go out on dry land and see what's there." And he goes. He comes back and the fish asks, "What's dry land like?" And the point of the story is that you can't describe dry land to a fish.
Yeah, the story's about enlightenment and not chasing happiness through material objects, but I'm gonna use it to prove that I'm a frog and Shay's a fish. He's stuck in the mud, so to speak. Poor, poor Shay.
That's with buying the RAM from apple, which one should never do, anyway.
And I know several wintel fans that would suggest the wintel price is inflated as well because the workstation was purchased from Dell, something many of us think you should never do anyway!
I think the prices on BOTH of those workstations are obscene!
Personally I'm still left w/ the choice of a $1000 pile of PC parts running WinXP, or a $2000 PowerMac short a pile of RAM running OSX.
And I know several wintel fans that would suggest the wintel price is inflated as well because the workstation was purchased from Dell, something many of us think you should never do anyway!
I think the prices on BOTH of those workstations are obscene!
Personally I'm still left w/ the choice of a $1000 pile of PC parts running WinXP, or a $2000 PowerMac short a pile of RAM running OSX.
I still think you should consider the iMac and using your current display as a second....
Yeah, the story's about enlightenment and not chasing happiness through material objects, but I'm gonna use it to prove that I'm a frog and Shay's a fish. He's stuck in the mud, so to speak. Poor, poor Shay.
Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
I still think you should consider the iMac and using your current display as a second....
I'm still considering it. Although that's still $1700, BEFORE memory upgrades for the 20" version. At that price it seems better to go for the dual 2GHz PowerMac anyway.. or hold out for an Intel PowerMac. Especially since I don't want the screen anyway.
I'm seriously starting to think that I should pass on the Mac this round and refit my existing PC on a budget. In a year or two my laptop will be beyond useful and up for replacement. Maybe I'll plunk money down on a low-end Mac portable at that point (iBook tier) w/ the expectation that it will only see casual web/word-processing use.
I'm still considering it. Although that's still $1700, BEFORE memory upgrades for the 20" version. At that price it seems better to go for the dual 2GHz PowerMac anyway.. or hold out for an Intel PowerMac. Especially since I don't want the screen anyway.
I'm seriously starting to think that I should pass on the Mac this round and refit my existing PC on a budget. In a year or two my laptop will be beyond useful and up for replacement. Maybe I'll plunk money down on a low-end Mac portable at that point (iBook tier) w/ the expectation that it will only see casual web/word-processing use.
I don't know where they're pricing it, but from apple.com, that configuration is $6524.
Plus, a terabyte of hard disk space is meaningless in the comparison, and the 600gb drive you're comparing it to. With a 500gb drive installed the total is $5949.
That's with buying the RAM from apple, which one should never do, anyway.
Yeah, it still ends up being more, but like I said before, Windows is fugly and stupid. Case closed.
Probably magazine lead time is responsible for the price discrepancy. A $500 price drop on a system like this is pretty normal over a month or so.
If I had dual 500 Gig drives (with a lot of usable data), I would mirror them and damn the small performance hit.
Yes they mention in the article that buying 16 Gig of ECC RAM from Apple is....... $11,900!!!! ACK!
The Windows GUI is okay... do people do this with G5 cases, or this? Of course, maybe people wouldn't do that if PC cases weren't so boring...
Probably magazine lead time is responsible for the price discrepancy. A $500 price drop on a system like this is pretty normal over a month or so.
If I had dual 500 Gig drives (with a lot of usable data), I would mirror them and damn the small performance hit.
Yes they mention in the article that buying 16 Gig of ECC RAM from Apple is....... $11,900!!!! ACK!
The Windows GUI is okay... do people do this with G5 cases, or this? Of course, maybe people wouldn't do that if PC cases weren't so boring...
The Quadro is also responsible for a TON of the cost. It's a ridiculous card to use UNLESS you are doing the highest-end CAD stuff that requires certified drivers. Or you want to do Stereo 3D. Like, you're one of the 50 people in Biotech research that does molecular visualization. Oh, and it requires a CRT :-)
Go with the 7800 GT, get the same performance, and save like $1200.
a frog and a fish in the pond. The frog says, "I'm gonna go out on dry land and see what's there." And he goes. He comes back and the fish asks, "What's dry land like?"
What made the frog return? I think the frog returned, because he needed the water for some job he had to do. The dry land looked great and all, but still he couldn't survive with being in the water for some time. Ribbit.
I'm seriously starting to think that I should pass on the Mac this round and refit my existing PC on a budget. In a year or two my laptop will be beyond useful and up for replacement. Maybe I'll plunk money down on a low-end Mac portable at that point (iBook tier) w/ the expectation that it will only see casual web/word-processing use.
Which is what I did. I don't need an iMac (already have a good TFT screen), and I don't want to buy yesterdays technology at the moment. So I went with a new Windows box. My iBook will need replacement in one/two years, and I'll get its intel version by then. You gotta love the industrial design attention Apple puts into their notebooks.
Another thing: I really hated that I'd have to pay full price on the Photoshop license again if I'd switch my main box to Apple. It puts a $600 premium on the switch. It's a pet peeve of mine, but I really don't understand Adobe for not bringing out a crossgrade discount.
Supposedly Adobe will deactivate your Windows license and re-activate it as an OSX license for the cost of media and manuals. Supposedly. I brought that up very early in my research and several people have told me that Adobe did this quite willingly.
Pshop isn't the only tool one would have to convert though. Fortunately I seem to use lots of open-source or cross platform tools these days, so I'm confident I'd be able to find compliments for the rest.
Just to be thorough I went back to my friendly Mac outlet last night w/ the intent of testing out a Mac Mini. They didn't have pshop on the one in the store and when I asked about it they told me they couldn't get Mini's anymore. He suggested that they were prime for replacement and that I should "keep my ear to the ground" for an Intel based mini. I am still trying to figure out why they had a display model for a computer they couldn't sell me.. or worse, why they can't get a mini yet I seem to be able to through Apple's site. Aren't these outlets just front ends and nearly the same as buying online anyhow? I seem to remember several people being encoraged (even by store staff) to try at the store and buy online. Hmmph. Not that I seriously expected to be happy w/ the mini anyhow.
My buddy gets his parts in next week. He is building himself a pretty impressive workstation w/ a dual-processor ready mobo. He's stuffing it w/ a single, dual-core Opteron in the meantime. This gives him an easy upgrade path. Adding a second processor and a few more sticks of RAM should effectively double his performance. Seems very smart. We'll see how it works out for him and then I'll place my order and finally be done w/ all this!
In the meantime I found a review of pretty much the exact config I've been looking at, plus or minus a few details.
Supposedly Adobe will deactivate your Windows license and re-activate it as an OSX license for the cost of media and manuals. Supposedly.
I've asked Adobe, and they wouldn't do that, they said they had no crossgrade policy other than buying a new full license. So I wouldn't exactly count on that.
I dunno anymore. There are countless recounts on the 'net going both ways. Many say that you have to call Adobe and have it out w/ them directly. They then make you fill out this form and fax/mail it back to them indicating you've 'destroyed' your previous version.
Some suggest you have to have a 'registered' copy (not just licensed) to get Adobe to play.
I also wonder if it might be a problem w/ an older version. For example I have CS, not CS2. I doubt they'd send me a Mac copy of CS. Instead they'd likely make me upgrade to CS2. And I doubt they offer upgrade pricing in combination w/ the platform 'cross-grade'. I dunno!
My copy is licensed and registered, but I didn't ask it on the phone in person (just an e-mail request). So if I'd switch my photo editing system to the Mac, I'll make sure to call them. Thanks for your info.
Anyone have any comments on the 'new' Mac mini. Just released this week I guess. Intel 'duo' core based.. supposedly "4x faster" than the G4 boxes they replace.
My cousin (a true Mac fanatic) is 'disapointed' w/ Apple over these things. He doesn't like the Intel intergrated graphics solution. Anyone have any opinions on why this would matter? Sure, you loose some of your memory because it's a shared memory architecture.. but other than that? Does OSX itself require any 3D acceleration not offered by these intergrated chipsets or something?
Anyone have any comments on the 'new' Mac mini. Just released this week I guess. Intel 'duo' core based.. supposedly "4x faster" than the G4 boxes they replace.
My cousin (a true Mac fanatic) is 'disapointed' w/ Apple over these things. He doesn't like the Intel intergrated graphics solution. Anyone have any opinions on why this would matter? Sure, you loose some of your memory because it's a shared memory architecture.. but other than that? Does OSX itself require any 3D acceleration not offered by these intergrated chipsets or something?
My only comment is my disappointment that the price went up.
My cousin (a true Mac fanatic) is 'disapointed' w/ Apple over these things. He doesn't like the Intel intergrated graphics solution. Anyone have any opinions on why this would matter? Sure, you loose some of your memory because it's a shared memory architecture.. but other than that? Does OSX itself require any 3D acceleration not offered by these intergrated chipsets or something?
Well, OS/X is memory sensitive by architecture/design. (translation: it's a bloated pig in some aspects, but it remains so because that makes things faster.) So taking away a minimum of 80M of system memory on a limited memory platform can irk some.
Yes, there are some "glitzy" eye candy bits that only shows up when you're on a system with a higher capability video card... but most of the users I know disabled all that after a week or two, 'cause it's really just annoying. There are also some applications that if you have a higher end card will use core video for some of their gui effects rather than computing image data on the CPU... those apps might notice a performance penalty on a board without higher end 3D support. HOWEVER, the GMA950 has 3D hardware support... sporting both DX9 and OpenGL 1.4 plus a few features, so I'm not sure what exactly your cousin is worried about here.
SmugMug Sorcerer - Engineering Team Champion for Commerce, Finance, Security, and Data Support http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
Comments
I would have expected a bigger difference between the two. What would a dual processor dual core PC setup crank out?
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
A) Not a virus.
C) The "trojan horse" from a few days ago is far from harmful, not even worth mentioning.
D) The security hole from today is a concern, and I've taken the appropriate steps.
E) Yes, the Mac is vulnerable, just a heck of a lot more secure than PCs. Just because my Camry will break down doesn't mean that I won't favor it over some other car with a poor repair history.
F) It's not fugly.
G) Case closed.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
semantics. People will and do call these things viruses regardless of the technical mumbo specifics.
Oh, like it's not going to happen?!?! This is bad thinking to rely on. Just because something has not happened yet doesn't mean it can't.
C) The "trojan horse" from a few days ago is far from harmful, not even worth mentioning.
This one maybe, but attacks often start from small harmless first steps to test defenses. If the defenses are found to be lacking, the full force shows up. The simple fact that they are testing the locks and finding some open, regardless of what was found behind the door, means that they now have their sights on you. This is no time to say "oh it's probably just the wind" and roll over for more sleep.
D) The security hole from today is a concern, and I've taken the appropriate steps.
Good to hear.
E) Yes, the Mac is vulnerable, just a heck of a lot more secure than PCs. Just because my Camry will break down doesn't mean that I won't favor it over some other car with a poor repair history.
I can agree there.
F) It's not fugly.
I'm not all that picky. Once we got away from DOS I was happy
G) Case closed.
What is in this case you keep talking about. And why can't you open it? I have a few skills in lock-picking, I might be able to help
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
Shay, we really agree on all points. Except I made the right decision and you made the wrong one. Pity, that.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Shay's not enlightened, but he doesn't know it. So that's OK, I guess, because he's unaware. No worries there then!
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
More data for this argument. We just tested a dual-processor (multi-processor, not dual-core) Xeon 2.8 GHz workstation w/ 2 GB of RAM. Unfortuantely he does not have Photoshop CS or CS2, only Photoshop 7. But it ran the radial blur test in 1:28!
Pretty comparable IMHO to the dual G5 PowerMac I tested at the Mac shop last week. (Which scored 1:23.) I should add that we didn't do anything special to prep for this test. He was running several apps, including an AIM clone, the process meter and a few other tools I know to have measurable (although light) impact on performance. The machine was also fresh off a 4+ hour render in Digital Fusion.
My father, the 71 year old jewish kid turned buddhist told a story this weekend about a frog and a fish in the pond. The frog says, "I'm gonna go out on dry land and see what's there." And he goes. He comes back and the fish asks, "What's dry land like?" And the point of the story is that you can't describe dry land to a fish.
Yeah, the story's about enlightenment and not chasing happiness through material objects, but I'm gonna use it to prove that I'm a frog and Shay's a fish. He's stuck in the mud, so to speak. Poor, poor Shay.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
I think the prices on BOTH of those workstations are obscene!
Personally I'm still left w/ the choice of a $1000 pile of PC parts running WinXP, or a $2000 PowerMac short a pile of RAM running OSX.
I still think you should consider the iMac and using your current display as a second....
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
Ignorance is bliss.
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
However, it is about to be broken when vista comes out. So after that, all bets are off.
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
I'm seriously starting to think that I should pass on the Mac this round and refit my existing PC on a budget. In a year or two my laptop will be beyond useful and up for replacement. Maybe I'll plunk money down on a low-end Mac portable at that point (iBook tier) w/ the expectation that it will only see casual web/word-processing use.
Unfortunately, that's a valid plan.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
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If I had dual 500 Gig drives (with a lot of usable data), I would mirror them and damn the small performance hit.
Yes they mention in the article that buying 16 Gig of ECC RAM from Apple is....... $11,900!!!! ACK!
The Windows GUI is okay... do people do this with G5 cases, or this? Of course, maybe people wouldn't do that if PC cases weren't so boring...
They have 16 gbRAM for 7100 or 10,300, which is the ECC, I think. Nothing for 11,900.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
The Quadro is also responsible for a TON of the cost. It's a ridiculous card to use UNLESS you are doing the highest-end CAD stuff that requires certified drivers. Or you want to do Stereo 3D. Like, you're one of the 50 people in Biotech research that does molecular visualization. Oh, and it requires a CRT :-)
Go with the 7800 GT, get the same performance, and save like $1200.
What made the frog return? I think the frog returned, because he needed the water for some job he had to do. The dry land looked great and all, but still he couldn't survive with being in the water for some time. Ribbit.
Which is what I did. I don't need an iMac (already have a good TFT screen), and I don't want to buy yesterdays technology at the moment. So I went with a new Windows box. My iBook will need replacement in one/two years, and I'll get its intel version by then. You gotta love the industrial design attention Apple puts into their notebooks.
Another thing: I really hated that I'd have to pay full price on the Photoshop license again if I'd switch my main box to Apple. It puts a $600 premium on the switch. It's a pet peeve of mine, but I really don't understand Adobe for not bringing out a crossgrade discount.
Pshop isn't the only tool one would have to convert though. Fortunately I seem to use lots of open-source or cross platform tools these days, so I'm confident I'd be able to find compliments for the rest.
Just to be thorough I went back to my friendly Mac outlet last night w/ the intent of testing out a Mac Mini. They didn't have pshop on the one in the store and when I asked about it they told me they couldn't get Mini's anymore. He suggested that they were prime for replacement and that I should "keep my ear to the ground" for an Intel based mini. I am still trying to figure out why they had a display model for a computer they couldn't sell me.. or worse, why they can't get a mini yet I seem to be able to through Apple's site. Aren't these outlets just front ends and nearly the same as buying online anyhow? I seem to remember several people being encoraged (even by store staff) to try at the store and buy online. Hmmph. Not that I seriously expected to be happy w/ the mini anyhow.
My buddy gets his parts in next week. He is building himself a pretty impressive workstation w/ a dual-processor ready mobo. He's stuffing it w/ a single, dual-core Opteron in the meantime. This gives him an easy upgrade path. Adding a second processor and a few more sticks of RAM should effectively double his performance. Seems very smart. We'll see how it works out for him and then I'll place my order and finally be done w/ all this!
In the meantime I found a review of pretty much the exact config I've been looking at, plus or minus a few details.
I've asked Adobe, and they wouldn't do that, they said they had no crossgrade policy other than buying a new full license. So I wouldn't exactly count on that.
Some suggest you have to have a 'registered' copy (not just licensed) to get Adobe to play.
I also wonder if it might be a problem w/ an older version. For example I have CS, not CS2. I doubt they'd send me a Mac copy of CS. Instead they'd likely make me upgrade to CS2. And I doubt they offer upgrade pricing in combination w/ the platform 'cross-grade'. I dunno!
My cousin (a true Mac fanatic) is 'disapointed' w/ Apple over these things. He doesn't like the Intel intergrated graphics solution. Anyone have any opinions on why this would matter? Sure, you loose some of your memory because it's a shared memory architecture.. but other than that? Does OSX itself require any 3D acceleration not offered by these intergrated chipsets or something?
My only comment is my disappointment that the price went up.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Well, OS/X is memory sensitive by architecture/design. (translation: it's a bloated pig in some aspects, but it remains so because that makes things faster.) So taking away a minimum of 80M of system memory on a limited memory platform can irk some.
Yes, there are some "glitzy" eye candy bits that only shows up when you're on a system with a higher capability video card... but most of the users I know disabled all that after a week or two, 'cause it's really just annoying. There are also some applications that if you have a higher end card will use core video for some of their gui effects rather than computing image data on the CPU... those apps might notice a performance penalty on a board without higher end 3D support. HOWEVER, the GMA950 has 3D hardware support... sporting both DX9 and OpenGL 1.4 plus a few features, so I'm not sure what exactly your cousin is worried about here.
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