Exclusive contract keeping me off the floor

Sparky_DBS · March 4, 2006

A local photographer has an exclusive contract with the local school district. I had been taking photos of the High School basketball players, because I have sold the Booster Club the idea of giving a composite 16x20 as part of the senior's gifts this year. I was working on getting images that I can use for the posters.

I have been informed that since the photographer has an exclusive contract with the school, I am not permitted to take photos from out on the floor.

I am heading to the Board of Ed office MOnday am, to take a look at the contract.

I don't know the particulars of the contract just yet, so I am not asking specifically what I can do, but rather what type of hurdles am I likely to be facing?

I don't want to take any of his senior portrait business, class photos, or anything else, but sports. That's all I want to do.

Has anyone else run into this kind of problem? I have been searching all day for info, but cannot seem to find very much.

I sell the photos I take for a song... I am not making money yet... And now this.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Sparky

Shay Stephens · March 4, 2006

My opinion
The "school" market has got to be the worst there is. You are just at the doorway. Do not expect any favors or fair treatment. Many schools want bribes, kickbacks, gifts, whatever they want to call it fo you to do anything professional for them or within their realm.

And you can expect the company that signed the contract to be pretty nasty to you too. It doesn't matter if you are making 1 penny or a million bucks either. Everybody wants a piece of the school market, and so they have to defend it pretty vigorusly to keep it even to the point of being unfair and unreasonable.

Can you tell I have a bad attitude when it comes to the school racket...er...market ;-)

Sparky_DBS wrote:

A local photographer has an exclusive contract with the local school district...

Sparky_DBS · March 4, 2006

Shay Stephens wrote:

The "school" market has got to be the worst there is. You are just at the doorway. Do not expect any favors or fair treatment. Many schools want bribes, kickbacks, gifts, whatever they want to call it fo you to do anything professional for them or within their realm.

And you can expect the company that signed the contract to be pretty nasty to you too. It doesn't matter if you are making 1 penny or a million bucks either. Everybody wants a piece of the school market, and so they have to defend it pretty vigorusly to keep it even to the point of being unfair and unreasonable.

Can you tell I have a bad attitude when it comes to the school racket...er...market ;-)

So, Shay, how do you really feel about it??!!!

I hear what you are saying...I was feeling pretty good about it, because the parents were loving what I was shooting. I guess this is my welcome to the real world, eh?

I am going to tread lightly, because I don't need any problems right now...

I will keep my eyes open and my hand on my wallet!:):

cambler · March 4, 2006

If the parents are loving what you do, there's your resource.

Tell the parents, "Sorry, I can no longer take the shots you love, and while this new firm might take great shots, they're going to charge you three times what I did. I'm more than happy to keep shooting and charging next-to-nothing, but the school won't let me now."

All it takes is a few very vocal parents to threaten to withdraw *their* support, and you'll see how quickly you're allowed back on the floor. Additionally, if those parents, as a group, tell the pro firm that not only are they not going to buy sports shots, but that they're also going to go elsewhere for senior portraits and the like, you'll find that you have a lot more leverage.

Sparky_DBS · March 4, 2006

cambler wrote:

If the parents are loving what you do, there's your resource.

Tell the parents, "Sorry, I can no longer take the shots you love, and while this new firm might take great shots, they're going to charge you three times what I did. I'm more than happy to keep shooting and charging next-to-nothing, but the school won't let me now."

All it takes is a few very vocal parents to threaten to withdraw *their* support, and you'll see how quickly you're allowed back on the floor. Additionally, if those parents, as a group, tell the pro firm that not only are they not going to buy sports shots, but that they're also going to go elsewhere for senior portraits and the like, you'll find that you have a lot more leverage.

cambler,
I think the parents are already moving in that direction. I was surprised at the outpouring of support for me. You make a great point, thanks. I'll let you know how it comes out.

ian408 · March 5, 2006

Well, not to rain on your parade but have you thought about competing for
that contract? That's what the guys that have the "exclusive" did and their
contract entitles them to the protection outlined in it. Whether the parents
like it or not. Of course, the parents don't have to buy anything either. And
that usually means little to no kickback for the school either.

There's not a lot of money in school sports hence the need to 'give back'
something to the school (somewhere between 3 and 10 percent) and for
the photog to get that exclusive contract to make it worth his or her time.

My suggestion is that you ask for a credential that allows you to shoot for
the booster club and that you accept the fact you will not be able to sell
your work outside of what you and the booster club agree to.

Best of luck to you.

Sparky_DBS · March 5, 2006

ian408 wrote:

Well, not to rain on your parade but have you thought about competing for
that contract? That's what the guys that have the "exclusive" did and their
contract entitles them to the protection outlined in it. Whether the parents
like it or not. Of course, the parents don't have to buy anything either. And
that usually means little to no kickback for the school either.

There's not a lot of money in school sports hence the need to 'give back'
something to the school (somewhere between 3 and 10 percent) and for
the photog to get that exclusive contract to make it worth his or her time.

My suggestion is that you ask for a credential that allows you to shoot for
the booster club and that you accept the fact you will not be able to sell
your work outside of what you and the booster club agree to.

Best of luck to you.

Ian
Thanks for your thoughts. I considered competing for the contract, but after thinking through it, I realized that I really don't want or need that level of hassle in my life. I am hoping for a compromise - perhaps a limited credential as you suggest. The pickings are slim this time of year, and I am anxious to make a little bit of money so I can get that 70-200 IS lens I have been dreaming about for the outdoor sports this year.

The season is almost over, so at this point, I am looking for clarification for the future. After sleeping on it overnight, it seems less of a issue than it did initially. Funny, I remember my father suggeting that I sleep on things like this... the old man was right, again!

So, how about the youth soccer league, and the baseball club, and the new, fresh opportunities that are not school-affiliated. I have enough material to put together a nice portfolio to show what I can do. Next!
Thanks again.

Frog Lady · March 5, 2006

Sparky_DBS wrote:

Ian
So, how about the youth soccer league, and the baseball club, and the new, fresh opportunities that are not school-affiliated. I have enough material to put together a nice portfolio to show what I can do. Next!
Thanks again.

you may run into that issue again there. At the local AYSO soccer league my boys play in, I shoot my sons games so I asked if I could sell pictures to the opposing teams parents. But, again, there is an exclusivity clause that prevents it. In this case, the firm is only there one week during the season and only shoots for ~1/4 to 1/2 of any game! I'm trying to work my way into it small time and see if I can get an exception for a few games a week. (the other thing to do is shoot until you're told you can't... that's the tactic I'm taking now in other leagues/tournaments).

good luck

Colleen

mercphoto · March 6, 2006

Sparky_DBS wrote:

I sell the photos I take for a song... I am not making money yet... And now this.

Which will likely make the other photographer more annoyed with you than if you were making a lot of money at it. One thing I have noticed is the event photographers who make a living at it have a very poor opinion of the hobbyists who do it for fun and sell the work for next to nothing. Something else for you to be prepared for.

bham · March 6, 2006

mercphoto wrote:

Which will likely make the other photographer more annoyed with you than if you were making a lot of money at it. One thing I have noticed is the event photographers who make a living at it have a very poor opinion of the hobbyists who do it for fun and sell the work for next to nothing. Something else for you to be prepared for.

Yes. Please remember that when you do work and then give it away you can and may be intruding on others income. You also tend to undervalue your time, work, etc.

Not saying that you are doing that, particularly if the company with the exclusivity isn't shooting the event at all. You may find that if you contact the company and talk with them they allow you to shoot for a fee, or 2-5% of your profit. Hey if they don't have to do anything and they get some money why wouldn't they go for it.

It sounds like this exlusivity contract is probably by a portrait company that gives a kickback to principal etc. I know about that from around here. One company sends the principal to the beach every year on them. And rumor is that isn't all. The portrait business is big $ so they make it back and then some. Imagine how great service the schools might get if competition, not kickbacks ruled this market. Yep this is dirty low down.

Steve Cavigliano · March 7, 2006

Sparky,
Lots of good advice given so far

I picked up on this sentence "I am no longer able to shoot from the floor". So does this mean you can shoot from the stands? If so, you may still be able to get enough good shots to complete a collage. I'd be standing on the first row of the bleachers (right in the corner) and firing away like a madman. Then I'd move up a little and do the same. If you are in the leftside bleachers, you'll get some great shots around the basket. Plus, by moving up in the stands you can get some nice above-the-rim shots

You may have to rent/invest in a longer focal length lens to do this. But, I did this with an 85mm and a 1.6X camera and the shots look very good.

If you can get the school to allow you back on to the floor, that would be better. But, all is not lost if not

Steve

cambler · March 7, 2006

bham wrote:

Yes. Please remember that when you do work and then give it away you can and may be intruding on others income. You also tend to undervalue your time, work, etc.

And what if he is? There's no entitlement that prohibits someone from intruding on the income of others - if there were, it would be a sad day for my favorite mom-and-pop burger stand, since they're clearly taking business away from McDonald's (a vastly superior product at, believe it or not, a lower price!)

And what if he's undervaluing his time? I shoot cheerleading and offer prints, here, at ludicrously-low prices. Why? Because I don't need the money. I shoot because I love doing it. I offer them inexpensively because the parents are sick and tired of paying outrageous sums for half-assed "pro" photos. And all the profits I make go right back into the cheer program.

Perhaps it's just the Libertarian in me coming out, but I don't see any reason that anyone should not do exactly as they please, even if that means giving away their work. If that's what makes them happy, who am I to tell them no?

kygarden · March 7, 2006

Sparky_DBS wrote:

I don't want to take any of his senior portrait business, class photos, or anything else, but sports. That's all I want to do.

Sparky

Hmmm...maybe if they all act crazy about it, get some great shots from the stands and thumb your nose at them. They can't keep everyone in the stands from taking pictures

Sparky_DBS · March 7, 2006

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

Sparky,
Lots of good advice given so far I picked up on this sentence "I am no longer able to shoot from the floor". So does this mean you can shoot from the stands? If so, you may still be able to get enough good shots to complete a collage. I'd be standing on the first row of the bleachers (right in the corner) and firing away like a madman. Then I'd move up a little and do the same. If you are in the leftside bleachers, you'll get some great shots around the basket. Plus, by moving up in the stands you can get some nice above-the-rim shots You may have to rent/invest in a longer focal length lens to do this. But, I did this with an 85mm and a 1.6X camera and the shots look very good.

If you can get the school to allow you back on to the floor, that would be better. But, all is not lost if not

Steve

Wow! I have not had a chance to check the replies... Thanks all.

SItuation update:

The playoff games are at a neutral site, and just just this morning, I got the approval from the site host to get back on the floor. "My" school doesn't control the access...

The "official photograher" is indeed the class-photo photographer for the entire school (grades k-11). The school administration is very interested in protecting this turf...apparently for some "value"-able reasons.

The speculation about the situattion appears to be just about right-on. "Payment-in-kind" is the politically correct term for kickbacks, I reckon...

I spoke with the superintendant yesterday, and he said that he couldn't stop me from shooting from the stands. Which is what I did. And I got some very nice shots, thank you very much! (85mm, 1.6x, 20D. I love that lens! )

And, until I get this resolved, I longer sell them, at least for now. So, I am making them available to the basketball boosters for free. What do you think THAT will do to his website sales?

In the meantime, I am building my portfolio and creating more samples for me to show off my talents, and hopefully be able to raise my prices.

The parents of the 9th grade and JV teams are really up in arms, supporting me, because the Official Photo. does not even think about doing their games.

And, I was told that I am the third parent to have brought this issue forward. So, there are others out there. I know one, but not the other. I will be talking with them this week.

"Stay tuned to this station - breaking news broadcast at once."

Thanks again, all, for your observations, suggestions, advice, and support.

That is what makes this forum great.

Bodley · March 7, 2006

Sparky_DBS wrote:

And, until I get this resolved, I longer sell them, at least for now. So, I am making them available to the basketball boosters for free. What do you think THAT will do to his website sales?

Wow Sparky, you really showed him. Your working for FREE, well, considering your cost your actually losing money - As a photographer, What's wrong with that picture.

Hmmmmmm, at this rate you'll never get that 70-200mm. Of course you'll have to hock the camera and existing lens to pay for all this less than free work your doing now.

Now how about this other photog's outrageous prices. How much have you spent on business licenses? Do you collect sales tax on your direct sales? Have you expensed $15,000.00 worth of photo equipment to see how much money must be charged to get back to even? Don't forget vehicle cost, printing, software, training, studio, ect....... Figure the cost, it may shock you. Remember the other photog is feeding babies at home not just hanging out and shooting.

I know that's a Smart A$$ answer, sorry, but trying to get you to think. If your goal is to make money for a lens your business model is lacking. How do you think your supporters are going to react when you try to actually make money? My guess is friendly to your face and a knife in your back. You've taught your potential clients that your service is worth "NOTHING" since you are doing it for free now. And even before if you sold them for a song - you only hurt your future sales b/c prices must be raised if you attempt to make a "TRUE" profit.

If I told my wife my "TRUE" profit she would put me out of business.

I'm really trying to help, promise.

Good Luck

mercphoto · March 7, 2006

Sparky_DBS wrote:

And, until I get this resolved, I longer sell them, at least for now. So, I am making them available to the basketball boosters for free. What do you think THAT will do to his website sales?

Are you on some vendatta against this guy? And if so, why?

GREAPER · March 7, 2006

To be honest, I dont get it either.

You dont want the hassle of competing for the conract, but your willing to do the work at a loss just to hurt the photog that went through the work to get the contract,

I have to deal with the school issue from time to time as I shoot seniors in my studio. I have had other photogs tell me I cant shoot for this school or that school, but have found it to just NOT be true. The wording of the cotract is ussually very clear. Generally I cannot go to the school and shoot the seniors, but they can come to me.

I have pics in more than half a doz yearbooks at schools that had an exclusive deal with a photog. The difference is that I am competing with them. Charging a fair price for my services.

As a result I now have one school contract based on my performance, no kick backs, no cheating, and no working for free. I make a very good profit on these deals. I also have overhead to pay, a studio to rent, equipment to repair and buy, advertising etc.

People who do it all for free come and go. They dont last because they are not making a dime. But they hurt everyone in business along the way.

cambler · March 7, 2006

GREAPER wrote:

People who do it all for free come and go. They dont last because they are not making a dime. But they hurt everyone in business along the way.

Hogwash. I shoot cheer competitions for my daugher's gym and now for a couple others who like my work better, and like the fact that I sell the prints here at a fraction of what the "pros" sell them for. Am I hurting the bottom-line of the pros? You bet I am. Am I doing it to be mean in any way? Nope.

I shoot because I love to do it. I like the ego stroke of the parents who like my work better than the others. To me, that ego stroke is worth more than the money.

Are you honestly trying to say that I'm doing something wrong?

winger · March 7, 2006

Just an idea but is there anyway for the boosters to hire you?

IF they hire you as a independant photograhper, then you can make a little cash, give them all the photos they want and kind of work all the angles (by at least collect some cash you end up not compromsing the photograhpy industry especially sports photograhpy)

Here is why I brought this up. Last year the NCAA did a major change in its rules in terms of photograhpers.....opening up alot of room for individual instituations to develop their own rules.

Some instituations claim that if they issue a pass they own all your photos (but I never sign anything so go ahead and pursue THAT in court....or I cross out all sort of language and initial)

Some insituations embraced it and used the new rules to enhace their current photograhper relationships. Univ of New Hampshire, cant pay its photographers what they would like, but they opened up the opportunity for the two photographers to sell the prints to players and parents (NCAA athletes still cant be used to promote any sort of commercial products)

UMass just got more strict in how the hand out creditials, no way are you getting a credital without some sort of media outlet to shoot for.....and the poor media relations "offical photograhper" they hand his stuff out to EVERYONE because he signed a contract saying that they own his images.

I dont know if I really have a point, but more of a personnel observation as someone who kind of has on foot in "advanced hobbiest" and the other in "emerging professional" At the very least when I make my photograhpy decisions I try not to compromise the industry.....and with so many school willing to take crap for nothing, good sports photos will only be found in SI. Personally I only know feel comfortable charging the day rates that at least the western mass local photograhpers charge (At least for outdoor sports) I have seen their work in comparison, if they can get it so can I ( I cant imagine when i take the time this summer to learn PS

)

Not to say your photos are crap, or that your ruining the industry....its more of a collection of random thoughts.

I guess my point amoungst all the rambling is that if you have an organization to shoot for does that gain you access then? And even if the Boosters dont kick you alot of money....at least if they pay you something it wont develope the behavior that people are starting to expect photos for free.

Two season ago when I first started shooting....those two guys from UNH and I were talking (actually I run into them alot) one of them after I told him I was just starting out...and he was like are they paying you? His deal was that they at least pay me something.....for him it didnt matter what (which was 5 times less than what the guy before me got) but then people dont develop the expectation that they can get photos for free.

Shay Stephens · March 7, 2006

GREAPER wrote:

As a result I now have one school contract based on my performance, no kick backs, no cheating, and no working for free. I make a very good profit on these deals.

Impressive, the force is strong with this one!

mercphoto · March 7, 2006

Greaper said they hurt everyone in the business along the way. You then write:

cambler wrote:

Hogwash. I shoot cheer competitions for my daugher's gym and now for a couple others who like my work better, and like the fact that I sell the prints here at a fraction of what the "pros" sell them for. Am I hurting the bottom-line of the pros? You bet I am. Am I doing it to be mean in any way? Nope.

I shoot because I love to do it. I like the ego stroke of the parents who like my work better than the others. To me, that ego stroke is worth more than the money.

Are you honestly trying to say that I'm doing something wrong?

Greaper says the freebie shooters hurt the industry. Then you admit that you are indeed hurting the bottom line of the pros. You two agree with each other.

As per doing something "wrong", I'm not a big one for protectionism. I completely understand the pros who despise the freebie shooters, but this is a free world, and my day job is hurt by cheap Indian and Chinese programmers, people who write software and give it away for free, etc. I get amazed myself by photog's who speak negatively about freebie photographers, and yet use shareware software and look for royalty-free music for their wedding DVD's.

Are you doing something wrong? That's a moral question. But you cannot escape the fact that the event photographer does appear to be a dying breed. That market is drying up.

I love to shoot karts and motocross, and I have a great day job. But I refuse to give my work away. In my mind that is just silly. And I have zero delusions of quitting the day job for a career shooting amateur sports.

Bodley · March 7, 2006

cambler wrote:

I shoot because I love to do it. I like the ego stroke of the parents who like my work better than the others. To me, that ego stroke is worth more than the money.

Charging a fair price may only boost the ego stroke. When people get that wallet out you know they truly like your work. Lip service is cheap when the price is.

Checked out your site - Excellent - no doubt your work is great.

Shay Stephens · March 7, 2006

Adapt or wither
In the wedding market, one is surrounded by freeby photographers. But I wouldn't say the market is drying up. You just have to provide what they can't.

The family member taking photos at a school event will be gone in a few years (when their child leaves). The wedding guest will only be shooting photos for a portion of the time. The point being that you can't count on them to provide anything. They are transient and fickle with their results.

So the pro needs to provide consistancy, dedication, and full coverage in order to provide something worthwhile that the free shooters can't do. If a particular market does dry up due to technology or social changes then you need to be flexible and redefine the market or change markets to something you can make profit on.

Case in point, portrait painters. Their market was largely destroyed by photography. And it is not going to come back. Many portrait painters switched to photography back in the day. Many of their skills could directly transition.

When digital cameras and scanners came out, the wedding photography market had been relying on selling prints to make a profit. The "fix" was to redefine the market to sell time and skill rather than prints. Those that have made the change see buiness increasing. Some of those still holding to the print for profit model are seeing business decline.

mercphoto wrote:

Are you doing something wrong? That's a moral question. But you cannot escape the fact that the event photographer does appear to be a dying breed. That market is drying up.

GREAPER · March 7, 2006

cambler wrote:

Am I hurting the bottom-line of the pros? You bet I am. Am I doing it to be mean in any way? Nope.

I shoot because I love to do it. I like the ego stroke of the parents who like my work better than the others. To me, that ego stroke is worth more than the money.

Are you honestly trying to say that I'm doing something wrong?

You start out with Hogwash and then agree with what I said.

I never said that you were wrong, just that it happens that way. I make no moral judgment about it.

I charge less for senior portraits than the "big" studio in town. I bet they think I hurt their market, and I do. I charge less because I have a LOT less overhead. My rent is cheap, I have no employees, I am a one man show, so I can charge less and still do well.

These same advantages are the things that will keep me small time. I can only accept the work that I can do myself.

I shoot pics of my kids HS band for free. Why? Because I want pictures of my kid playing in the band. I let his friends and their families buy those pics for cost. I did not take them as a Photographer, I took them as a Dad. The big difference is that there is NO ONE else taking pics of the band, They are all shooting the game.

Those same families pay my regular rates for HS band portraits. No problem.

Sparky_DBS · March 7, 2006

OK. I am guilty of being sarcastic. Sorry.

Many valid points have been made here. THere are certainly differing opinions about the business model and what works. I have only been doing this since the fall. I have looked at the elasticity of demand for the 4x6 prints at 2,4, and 6 dollars. What I am finding in my online business model is that I am not making money selling 4x6 prints, regardless of where they are priced. I am, however, making some progress selling larger composite and poster prints. I am just about giving the 4x6 prints away, as a loss leader, to get my name established, and to show the quality of my work, which is improving. Prople are paying real money for my stuff. Not everyone will, but those who want it, are paying for it. I do not have to give it away. I have chosen to price the prints aggressively. So far, it seems to be working. The good thing is that I can change and adapt.

I reall do not have a vendetta against the guy. I don't even dislike him.
I am not out to hurt his business. He does so little on the internet that it is not even in his equation. He is a portrait guy. He shoots sports for the yearbook. He doesn't even seem interested in it. Maybe he isn't. I see it as an opportunity.

I am working with the boosters, and I have sold them some 16x20s of the seniors at a "professional photographer's" price. My objective now is to approach the other non-school events: baseball, recreational soccer, and others. I am working on the proposals now. I know that the value I provide is in the eye of the beholder. I am proving myself each day. I have found that my original model didn't work, that the on-line print business is low profit, low volume. So I am changing.

I appreciate all the candor and straight talk. It is thought provoking.

Sparky

Steve Cavigliano · March 7, 2006

It sounds like you have it under control Sparky. Your more detailed explanation clarifies your story and subsequent comments dramatically.

I wuz startin' to worry about you buddy....lol

I think your plan sounds feasible and I wish you the best of luck

Steve

Sparky_DBS · March 7, 2006

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

It sounds like you have it under control Sparky. Your more detailed explanation clarifies your story and subsequent comments dramatically.

I wuz startin' to worry about you buddy....lol

I think your plan sounds feasible and I wish you the best of luck

Steve

Thanks. I really do appreciate all the points of view presented here. I don't type real well, so I tend to not write a lot...

As a point of clarification, when I made the smart remark about what "THAT would do to his business" , I thought that it was rather ironic, that as he exercised his rights to protect his turf (which he IS entitled to), and removed me from the floor, and had the athletic department make me stop selling pictures, that he would have been better served had he make me raise my prices. He couldn't stop me entirely, and it only could hurt his business by my giving those prints away. I am sure I would have done the same thing as he did, were I in his position. Another lesson from the school of hard knocks...

I will try to be more direct in my explanations in the future.

Sparky

Bodley · March 7, 2006

Sparky_DBS wrote:

OK. I am guilty of being sarcastic. Sorry.

Many valid points have been made here. THere are certainly differing opinions about the business model and what works. I have only been doing this since the fall. I have looked at the elasticity of demand for the 4x6 prints at 2,4, and 6 dollars. What I am finding in my online business model is that I am not making money selling 4x6 prints, regardless of where they are priced. I am, however, making some progress selling larger composite and poster prints. I am just about giving the 4x6 prints away, as a loss leader, to get my name established, and to show the quality of my work, which is improving. Prople are paying real money for my stuff. Not everyone will, but those who want it, are paying for it. I do not have to give it away. I have chosen to price the prints aggressively. So far, it seems to be working. The good thing is that I can change and adapt.

I reall do not have a vendetta against the guy. I don't even dislike him.
I am not out to hurt his business. He does so little on the internet that it is not even in his equation. He is a portrait guy. He shoots sports for the yearbook. He doesn't even seem interested in it. Maybe he isn't. I see it as an opportunity.

I am working with the boosters, and I have sold them some 16x20s of the seniors at a "professional photographer's" price. My objective now is to approach the other non-school events: baseball, recreational soccer, and others. I am working on the proposals now. I know that the value I provide is in the eye of the beholder. I am proving myself each day. I have found that my original model didn't work, that the on-line print business is low profit, low volume. So I am changing.

I appreciate all the candor and straight talk. It is thought provoking.

Sparky

This sounds much better - I do think you should talk with the guy about your shooting. If he's not interested in the action shots, as you stated, then I'll bet he would be okay with you using the floor. If you work it right his exclusion would apply to others but not you.

I met the guy which has the contract with our school. He shot the obligatory sports shots but had no problem with my shooting as well. He actually offered to help me. The money is in the portraits.

Sparky_DBS · March 7, 2006

Bodley,

Thanks. I do respect the challenges that you and others put forward. This clearly is not an easy way to make money. Maybe because the challenge is so tough, that we are attracted to it. Whatever... anyway, thanks for caring enough to challenge me and my thinking. I do need a whack on the side of the head from time to time, just to keep things in line!

Sparky

mercphoto · March 7, 2006

Sparky_DBS wrote:

I have looked at the elasticity of demand for the 4x6 prints at 2,4, and 6 dollars. What I am finding in my online business model is that I am not making money selling 4x6 prints, regardless of where they are priced. I am, however, making some progress selling larger composite and poster prints. I am just about giving the 4x6 prints away, as a loss leader, to get my name established, and to show the quality of my work, which is improving.

I'm finding something similar with 4x6's. Being a small print size people don't seem to want to spend much money on them. But surprisingly, if I offer them inexpensively, people still order 5x7s (at much more $$$) and 8x10s. I'm also trying to market trading cards, collages as well.

Bodley · March 7, 2006

mercphoto wrote:

I'm finding something similar with 4x6's. Being a small print size people don't seem to want to spend much money on them. But surprisingly, if I offer them inexpensively, people still order 5x7s (at much more $$$) and 8x10s. I'm also trying to market trading cards, collages as well.

I'm finding more sales in the 4x6 arena. My thinking is they are taking them home and scanning.

Exclusive contract keeping me off the floor

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