Yeah, I really really dig it. I was intimidated by the price initially, but with every shot, I become more and more convinced it was the right choice. I checked out the 1Ds too, but holy mackeral...I could get a 10D and a good motorcycle for the price. The lack of a multiplier is very tempting, as is the resolution, but I just can't justfy that price unless I can make money off of it...which I probably can't.
A digital with a pro body and pro features is easily worth a couple of Mpixels. The shot below was done handheld with the 100-400 IS at 1/60th f5.6
Charles Richmond IT & Security Consultant
Operating System Design, Drivers, Software
Villa Del Rio II, Talamban, Pit-os, Cebu, Ph
The 1Ds has a CMOS sensor and should not have these problems with long exposures???
Am I correct or is there something else I'm missing?
Hutch
The 1Ds has a 24 x 36mm CMOS sensor. The 1D has a 28.7 x 19.1mm CCD sensor.
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
I was just at a camera shop last week asking to play around with the 10D and Rebel to see if I can realistically justify spending the price difference. He told me the 10D was moot because they're no longer in production. It will be difficult to get them. There is a replacement due to be introduced "soon" (a month or two).
There's a waiting list for the Rebel, too, despite Canon producing them in massive quantities. I'm told it'll be a couple of weeks before I get mine.
Interesting. Both bhphoto and adorama say the 10D is backordered. bhphoto apparently has the digital rebel in stock (according to their website).
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
I just spoke to a reporter who said Canon was showing an upgrade to the 10D at CES to in private that had an 8 megapixel sensor.
Would that happen to be the same guy who told you BMW was going to release a K1200RT last year?
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
In light of Baldy's revelation that the 10D will get a bump up to 8mp, here's an article that suddenly makes a great deal more sense.
What I take away is not that the 10D will have 8mp.... but that it might also have much noisier images. The new Sony DSC-F828 is getting slammed for chromatic abberation and noise. Apparently, it's not a great idea to cram 8 megapixels onto the same size sensor.
In light of Baldy's revelation that the 10D will get a bump up to 8mp, here's an article that suddenly makes a great deal more sense.
What I take away is not that the 10D will have 8mp.... but that it might also have much noisier images. The new Sony DSC-F828 is getting slammed for chromatic abberation and noise. Apparently, it's not a great idea to cram 8 megapixels onto the same size sensor.
They could always make a larger sensor, no more 1.6x multiplier?
On a more serious note, if the problems with noise are worse on the 8 mp sensor, I would think one would be better off with the 6 mp sensor and better glass.
On a more serious note, if the problems with noise are worse on the 8 mp sensor, I would think one would be better off with the 6 mp sensor and better glass.
Hutch
They will be able to make an 8mp sensor that works well. It simply depends on the quality of the sensor and overall camera. The 1Ds has an 11mp sensor and works very well.
All the major camera announcements should be made at PMA, less than a month away. At this point I would hold out, unless you need a camera right not, since when they come out you will probably get a better camera for the same money or a current camera for less money. Of course just because they announce a camera it may take a few weeks to hit the shelves, but some manufacturers are getting much faster at delivering their cameras.
Yeah, the delay's the thing I was thinking about, after talking to you and listening to the store folks.
I read a fascinating review of the new Sony 828 on Luminous Landscape. He absolutely affirms that the 828 has more noise and slightly more chromatic aberration than the 10D. But he doesn't think that's a problem. He says you can get rid of the noise by using software like Noise Ninja, and that the CA is to be expected.
Amazingly, he compared the 828 to the 10D. It comes out tied! He loved the 828, bought one for himself to take on his working trip to Africa. If you're at a point where you're comfortable using software to clean-up your images, that camera sounds amazing. 8mp, RAW files, lens equivalent to a 28-200, he loves the lens... basically he accused the posters at dpreview of talking out of their a***s.
Speaking of noise and sensors. The new thing seems to be Foveon. This
chip collects RGB for each pixel. Right now, Sigma is the only camera
to use the Foveon.
In a normal sensor, red green and blue are collected separately in a mosaic
like pattern that is then blended together to produce the RGB. With the
Foveon, each pixel collects all three colors. In theory, Foveon should collect
100 percent RGB for each pixel (I think it works out to 25/50/25 for traditional
CMOS sensors).
How this works is kind of cool. If you're a SCUBA diver, it will make sense to
explain it as filtration. With different colors being absorbed at different depths. I'm sure there's a better and more technical explanation on the
Foveon web site. http://www.foveon.com/
There are some demo images on the web site.
I would be interested to know what process/fab they use to mfg parts
with. Otherwise the idea seems good. I guess the results will are determined
by image quality.
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
As I understand it, Foveon sounds good in principle, but has yet to have a successful practical application. Is it because the major brands have spend way too many $$ pursuing other technologies?
As I understand it, Foveon sounds good in principle, but has yet to have a successful practical application. Is it because the major brands have spend way too many $$ pursuing other technologies?
I think the Sigma is a successful application. But I don't know anyone
who owns one. I hear they can be difficult to use as well.
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
Anyone help me at decision time. I finally decided to buy a 10D. I couldn't remortgage the house and did OK buy going with a Tamron 28-300 lens. I'm certainly not a pro at this but I'm satisfied with quality of pictures (mostly action). I'm decided I need to go with a wide angle lens. I priced the canon lens and it goes for a cool $1600. Way over my head. Tamron 19-35 is available for $250. No doubt there is a difference but I'm just doing this for fun. Is there that much difference for an amatuer just having fun? Keep in mind the 10D was originally paid for by "my company". I would have choked to pay that much. On the other hand it's a beautiful camera and I don't want to completely cheapen it up either. Anyone let me know how they like the Tamrons
Here are some reviews of the lens you're interested in. The third one and the others after that get into specifics. One reviewer reminds us that with the 10D's multiplier effect, the widest angle is close to 30mm.
You should change your name from photogbiker to photogwriter. Your explanation is terrific. I am a newcomer to photography in general, and digital photography in particular. Thank you for clear, concise words that enabled me to understand the concepts referenced.
I just spoke to a reporter who said Canon was showing an upgrade to the 10D at CES to in private that had an 8 megapixel sensor.
That would explain why they're so low on stock. They want it to sell through so they're not left with excess inventory.
In retrospect, do you think this was the 1D MII? That really isn't a 10D replacement since it will cost > 3x.
Here is what I want:
Canon (so all my lenses work)
Full frame (so everything is the same as film -- depth of field, width, everything)
Small. The 10D is the largest body I can really stand to haul around. I'd have bought a 1Ds already if it were the same size.
Resolution - I find that I'm doing pretty well with my 10D when everything else is right. But it would be nice to be able to crop more and still have great quality. Given my style, it might be a wash as I tend to shoot pretty long tele.
I'm using a G3 right now. I'd like the images to have more clarity. I suspect the combination of the lenses and the sensor are conspiring to reduce the quality of the image.
I hope this advice isn't too late. Save on the body and spend on the lenses. The great thing about DSLR is that your investment in lenses won't be wasted when the body becomes obsolete (and it will.) If you by the best glass, you'll still be using it 10 years from now. Well before that time, you'll see a camera with the specs of the 1Ds for the price of a 10D or less. And a year after that, you'll be able to get one used for 1/2 price.
When buying lenses, be sure to check ebay and froogle.google.com. There are often great deals. This is less true of hot digital bodies.
Good advice regarding the lenses, Rutt. I suspect a lot of people do it the other way around.
I do a quibble a wee bit about what you say about the prices of the bodies dropping by half over a year. It seems as though the assigned price holds pretty well for dSLRs, and then the model gets replaced. Then the old model is no longer available new. So the best way (maybe the only way?) to get a fancy body for cheap is to buy it used. I'm seeing used 1D bodies going on eBay for a little less than $3,000.
I do a quibble a wee bit about what you say about the prices of the bodies dropping by half over a year. It seems as though the assigned price holds pretty well for dSLRs, and then the model gets replaced. Then the old model is no longer available new. So the best way (maybe the only way?) to get a fancy body for cheap is to buy it used. I'm seeing used 1D bodies going on eBay for a little less than $3,000. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/ne_nau.gif" border="0" alt="" >
Yes, I agree. That was my idea -- buy it used a year after it comes out. I don't know when exactly, but sometime in the next 5 years, used 1Ds's will be < $1k. If you still want it.
The search now begins in earnest. I have been to the local camera store for pricing. They are at $1499 on a 10D, which is what the highly regarded online dealers are charging. A bonus is 1 year same as cash - you buy a bunch of stuff and try it, if you don't like, bring it back with no questions asked. My son lives in OR with no sales tax so he can "purchase" the camera and no tax, no shipping.
Good advice regarding the lenses, Rutt. I suspect a lot of people do it the other way around.
I do a quibble a wee bit about what you say about the prices of the bodies dropping by half over a year. It seems as though the assigned price holds pretty well for dSLRs, and then the model gets replaced. Then the old model is no longer available new. So the best way (maybe the only way?) to get a fancy body for cheap is to buy it used. I'm seeing used 1D bodies going on eBay for a little less than $3,000.
Funny how you started this looking at a $1000 or at most $1500 camera... Sell the GS and get the mkII!!!
FWIW, the only place my Drebel has let me down is speed - which is the one thing you have mentioned in several other threads as the thing you like most in the big fancy camera. I am however a big fan of spend the money on glass. Especially with the wan Canon and Nikon are duking it out right now, I figure by the time I finish my graduate work, I'll have a couple decent lenses which I'll have scrapped up for, and there will be either used 1DmkII's or an equivalent selling for what the Drebel is now. And at that point, I'll be able to afford to just keep the Drebel as a "spare" body. Imagine that: a spare DSLR body!!! Ah, dreams...
In any case, looking forward to the pics we'll see from you with a new DSLR and that new monitor...
Thanks! the monitor should be here this week. I'm hopeful I can finally get the right Levels and color whn I play in photoshop. i'm just guessing right now, no confidence at all in my decisions. The camera may have to wait for a while. : You're right, I have a need for speed. I still keep an eye on ebay for 1D prices. Still hovering $3,000 for a used body. I'm hopeful they'll come down when the mkII comes out in April.
Thanks! the monitor should be here this week. I'm hopeful I can finally get the right Levels and color whn I play in photoshop. i'm just guessing right now, no confidence at all in my decisions. The camera may have to wait for a while. : You're right, I have a need for speed. I still keep an eye on ebay for 1D prices. Still hovering $3,000 for a used body. I'm hopeful they'll come down when the mkII comes out in April.
I almost want to smack myself for saying this, but correct me if I'm wrong... you have no lens investment, yet, right? With the D2x all but out, Nikon D1x's are selling for $2400 or so on ebay right now... I know cause a friend is looking to upgrade his D1. Or, want a D1 for $800? Sure it has less mp, but its a KICKASS camera, rugged and fast as all heck.
I'm a Canon guy, as you know, but thought i'd just play a little devil's advocate.
I almost want to smack myself for saying this, but correct me if I'm wrong... you have no lens investment, yet, right? With the D2x all but out, Nikon D1x's are selling for $2400 or so on ebay right now... I know cause a friend is looking to upgrade his D1. Or, want a D1 for $800? Sure it has less mp, but its a KICKASS camera, rugged and fast as all heck.
I'm a Canon guy, as you know, but thought i'd just play a little devil's advocate.
Get thee behind me, Satan! You're right, I have no glass right now. But I have my eyes firmly fixed on the 70-200 IS. And Patch's constant praise for Canon has definitely swayed me. And I crave the multi-frames per second ability of the 1D (or mkII.) Patch let me play with his 1D last year, and it stunned me.
Thanks very much for letting me know about the camera, though. I do appreciate it.
Comments
A digital with a pro body and pro features is easily worth a couple of Mpixels. The shot below was done handheld with the 100-400 IS at 1/60th f5.6
Operating System Design, Drivers, Software
Villa Del Rio II, Talamban, Pit-os, Cebu, Ph
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
Interesting. Both bhphoto and adorama say the 10D is backordered. bhphoto apparently has the digital rebel in stock (according to their website).
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
I had looked at B+H and saw the same thing. They seem to be very good about their instock/out of stock listings.
That would explain why they're so low on stock. They want it to sell through so they're not left with excess inventory.
That will be impressive if they announce in next month. wxwax I think we found your new camera.
Would that happen to be the same guy who told you BMW was going to release a K1200RT last year?
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
You mean a suddenly out-of-date 10D?
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
What I take away is not that the 10D will have 8mp.... but that it might also have much noisier images.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
They could always make a larger sensor, no more 1.6x multiplier?
Save up? Apply for more credit?
On a more serious note, if the problems with noise are worse on the 8 mp sensor, I would think one would be better off with the 6 mp sensor and better glass.
Hutch
They will be able to make an 8mp sensor that works well. It simply depends on the quality of the sensor and overall camera. The 1Ds has an 11mp sensor and works very well.
All the major camera announcements should be made at PMA, less than a month away. At this point I would hold out, unless you need a camera right not, since when they come out you will probably get a better camera for the same money or a current camera for less money. Of course just because they announce a camera it may take a few weeks to hit the shelves, but some manufacturers are getting much faster at delivering their cameras.
I read a fascinating review of the new Sony 828 on Luminous Landscape. He absolutely affirms that the 828 has more noise and slightly more chromatic aberration than the 10D. But he doesn't think that's a problem. He says you can get rid of the noise by using software like Noise Ninja, and that the CA is to be expected.
Amazingly, he compared the 828 to the 10D. It comes out tied! He loved the 828, bought one for himself to take on his working trip to Africa. If you're at a point where you're comfortable using software to clean-up your images, that camera sounds amazing. 8mp, RAW files, lens equivalent to a 28-200, he loves the lens... basically he accused the posters at dpreview of talking out of their a***s.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
chip collects RGB for each pixel. Right now, Sigma is the only camera
to use the Foveon.
In a normal sensor, red green and blue are collected separately in a mosaic
like pattern that is then blended together to produce the RGB. With the
Foveon, each pixel collects all three colors. In theory, Foveon should collect
100 percent RGB for each pixel (I think it works out to 25/50/25 for traditional
CMOS sensors).
How this works is kind of cool. If you're a SCUBA diver, it will make sense to
explain it as filtration. With different colors being absorbed at different depths. I'm sure there's a better and more technical explanation on the
Foveon web site. http://www.foveon.com/
There are some demo images on the web site.
I would be interested to know what process/fab they use to mfg parts
with. Otherwise the idea seems good. I guess the results will are determined
by image quality.
Ian
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
who owns one. I hear they can be difficult to use as well.
Ian
Here are some reviews of the lens you're interested in. The third one and the others after that get into specifics. One reviewer reminds us that with the 10D's multiplier effect, the widest angle is close to 30mm.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Photogbiker,
You should change your name from photogbiker to photogwriter. Your explanation is terrific. I am a newcomer to photography in general, and digital photography in particular. Thank you for clear, concise words that enabled me to understand the concepts referenced.
John R
Here is what I want:
When buying lenses, be sure to check ebay and froogle.google.com. There are often great deals. This is less true of hot digital bodies.
I do a quibble a wee bit about what you say about the prices of the bodies dropping by half over a year. It seems as though the assigned price holds pretty well for dSLRs, and then the model gets replaced. Then the old model is no longer available new. So the best way (maybe the only way?) to get a fancy body for cheap is to buy it used. I'm seeing used 1D bodies going on eBay for a little less than $3,000.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Gettin' close!
Hutch
FWIW, the only place my Drebel has let me down is speed - which is the one thing you have mentioned in several other threads as the thing you like most in the big fancy camera. I am however a big fan of spend the money on glass. Especially with the wan Canon and Nikon are duking it out right now, I figure by the time I finish my graduate work, I'll have a couple decent lenses which I'll have scrapped up for, and there will be either used 1DmkII's or an equivalent selling for what the Drebel is now. And at that point, I'll be able to afford to just keep the Drebel as a "spare" body. Imagine that: a spare DSLR body!!! Ah, dreams...
In any case, looking forward to the pics we'll see from you with a new DSLR and that new monitor...
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
I'm a Canon guy, as you know, but thought i'd just play a little devil's advocate.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Get thee behind me, Satan! You're right, I have no glass right now. But I have my eyes firmly fixed on the 70-200 IS. And Patch's constant praise for Canon has definitely swayed me. And I crave the multi-frames per second ability of the 1D (or mkII.) Patch let me play with his 1D last year, and it stunned me.
Thanks very much for letting me know about the camera, though. I do appreciate it.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au