What DLSR should I buy?

vangogh · May 4, 2006

Hi

I've been using a Fuij Finepix s602 zoom now for a year getting used to digital after having had a Pentax MZ7 SLR. I've got to the stage where I'm becoming frustrated with the limitations of the camera (took some photos over the weekend & am very disappointed in the results I got) & want to get a DSLR, but want some advice on which one to get.

At the moment my ISO starts at 160 & goes up to 1600 but anything over 400 is only a small size image, so want something that starts at say 50 or 100 ISO & goes higher than 1600.

F stops go from f11 to f2.8, so again something better than that. Shutter goes from 10000 to 15 secs but would like something better than that & something that can handle long exposures & write fast.

Apart from price & quality of the lens, the most important thing for me really is weight. I like my SLR & the Fuji becuase they are light. I have quite small hands so if something is too big it would be very uncomfortable & heavy after a while.

Any suggestions please?

ziggy53 · May 4, 2006

vangogh,

Now you've done it! You've asked this group of hyperactive photographic miscreants (of which I am proud to be a part) for their opinion.

The first thing you have to understand is that a camera, any camera, is just a tool. Before you purchase any tool, you need to identify the qualities and components that best suit your needs. The only needs I see identified in your post are regarding ISO, especially high-ISO/low-light, and weight/size, needing relatively small and lightweight.

Since you mention the Pentax SLR I also ask, do you have any lenses from that camera you desire to reuse in a digital body?

I challenge you to review your previous images to determine what kind of photographer you are. Do you shoot sports, landscapes, events, birds, etc.? How many times do you need to use electronic flash? Please give us as much information as you can to help us relate to you and your style of photography.

After we see your qualities, and those of your needs, we can give you more direction on a method of selection for your next photographic purchases, which will be many and cause never ending economic hardship.:cry

Best,

ziggy53

pathfinder · May 4, 2006

Vangogh,

The standard answer to what DSLR should I purchase, is to suggest that the poster evaluate the Canon and Nikon systems for lenses and flash equipment and decide first if they are a Nikonian or a Canonian, as once you purchase an SLR/DSLR it becomes more difficult to change your mind and switch to the other side.

You'll notice here I did not suggest Pentax, Minolta, Sony, Olympus, or any brands but Canon or Nikon. The main reason for this approach is that only Canon and Nikon really manufacture full lines of lenses and equipment and thus hold their resale value much better than other alternatives.

If you are a serious amateur or professional, this argument probably is pretty reasonable.

However, if you just want a camera and a couple of lenses to shoot snapshots with, you can probably ignore it and buy whatever brand meets your needs.

Looking at your gallery, I think you should give serious consideration to staying with Nikon or Canon and buy the best of their models you can afford. I think you will be happier with the more extensive line of lenses than in the lesser brands.

I will say the the Olympus 4/3 series of DSLRs are gettting more and more interesting. Small, light, and now Sigma is building lenses for them also. And they have one thing that we all liked with P&S cameras that most DSLRs do not have currently, and that is a real time LCD viewfinder that can be moved and swiveled so you can shoot from waist level or overhead. No other DSLR has a live full time LCD viewfinder that I am aware of.

USAIR · May 4, 2006

What ziggy and pf said

You are buying into a system
Look at each system and then decide which is for you
Bodies come and go but you keep all the other stuff
...glass,filters,remotes,flashes,bags,memory

Fred

marlof · May 4, 2006

I only have experience with Olympus camera, so the 4/3 system Pathfinder mentioned is what I can talk about.

The E-500 is a very nice starting point. It is cheap, low weight, and comes with two decent kit lenses that might be a nice starting point if you only want to tip your toes in (and beyond that, since the camera is very capable). If you want to explore more, you might consider the E-330, which is the one that has the Live View modes Pathfinder spoke about. Getting that and a wide angle (like the 11-22, which offers a 22-44 FOV in 35mm equiv) might prove to be a very nice street photography solution. Olympus doesn't have a recent offering in the professional market. Their flagship, the E-1, is already 3 years old. Rumors are going that a replacement might be annoucend at Photokina next September. Which makes the current E-1 a true bargain. Search on eBay for the Cameta Auctions. They're selling new E-1's with a SHLD-2 powergrip and the very good 2.8-3.5 14-54 (28-108 equiv) lens for a steal. It's older technology, and the autofocus is not up to Canon and Nikon standards, but AF is spot on, and it does have the benefit of a built in dust removal (like all other 4/3 cameras so far).

The Olympus flash system is far less advanced than the Canon and Nikon systems though. Also does the 4/3 sensor, which is smaller than an APS sensor as in the Nikon/Canon startup line, imply some limitations in offering noiseless higher ISO settings. I have no problem using my E-1 up to ISO 400, ISO 800 is good as long as you get the exposure right, 1600 neats treatment by an anti noise application and 3200 is hardly usable. The newer DSLRs (E500 and E330) are better, but still not as good as Nikon and especially not as Canon. The benefit of the 2x crop factor the smaller sensor gives, is that the lenses, considered their 35mm field of view, are a bit smaller than the lenses for 1.6 (Canon) or 1.5 (Nikon) crop factor cameras.

Also, Panasonic will be out with the DMC-L1 4/3 DSLR, presumably in September. This will have a fast Leica lens (built by Panasonic) with optical image stabilization. It will have similar Live View capabilities as the Olympus E-330 has, and shares the sensor with that camera. It's not out yet, so not much is known in this stage other than that. And that it has full analog-like control (aperture ring, shutter speed ring) which might appeal to some.

Personally I use an E-1, 14-54 standardzooom, 50-200 telezoom, and 50 macro lens (all medium grade lenses, not the professional lineup that is very expensive, and not the consumer grade kit lenses). I also have the consumer flash FL-36, and a teleconverter and extension tube. That's all I personally need. But as Pathfinder said, this might be all fine for amateurs like me, doing this as a hobby. I know I'll never have the need for a full range of lenses. My current collection of the walkaround zoom, the tele and the macro lens should probably suit me fine in the foreseeable future. If you're the type that would like a tilt shift lens, fast prime lenses, highest autofocus speed and a shot at second hand options, staying with Canon or Nikon might be the best choice. It'd be probably also be the best solution if you see yourself active on the buy and sell market. Me, I just bought things that I'd though I'd use for more than just a few years, with the exception of the body, fully aware that I would never want this to be more than a hobby.

Maybe others can tell a bit more about what they feel might be a good choice in the lineup of the brand they're currently using, especially after you've explained what you see in your future in photography. Like ziggy said: What do you want to shoot? Do you want to do paid jobs? Stuff like that makes it easier to answer questions like this.

jdfaith · May 4, 2006

I agree with deciding on a system and going with it, but Nikon and Canon are not your only options.

As a Pentax *istD owner for two and a half years, I can tell you that the glass is first rate (though currently no IS), good flashes are aplenty (just received my new AF-540FGZ today) and quality and workmanship is at least as good (I'd say better) than the two gigundos that dominate the market.

Additionally, talk to any Pentax DSLR owner (or film for that matter as Pentax has used the same mount for over 30 years now) and ask them about depreciation on good glass. It doesn't happen. Folks seem to be paying more on Fleabay for Limiteds (31, 43, 77, 85 and the new 40mm pancake) than if they were purchased new.

While Pentax hasn't tossed out new models every three or so months like C&N, there is a 10MP top-shelf model that will be out in the Fall with a separate lower-price-point entry.

Follow the herd if you must, but if you're serious about your investment you're not wasting anything by looking at Pentax.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I did order a 30D last week...but that's only because Andy shoots Canon. :buttkiss

Mike Lane · May 4, 2006

How does one pronounce *istD anyhow?

USAIR · May 4, 2006

Mike Lane wrote:

How does one pronounce *istD anyhow?

Been trying to figure that one out for a long time

And I have pentax equipment too

Fred

pathfinder · May 4, 2006

marlof wrote:

I only have experience with Olympus camera, so the 4/3 system Pathfinder mentioned is what I can talk about.

The E-500 is a very nice starting point. It is cheap, low weight, and comes with two decent kit lenses that might be a nice starting point if you only want to tip your toes in (and beyond that, since the camera is very capable). If you want to explore more, you might consider the E-330, which is the one that has the Live View modes Pathfinder spoke about. Getting that and a wide angle (like the 11-22, which offers a 22-44 FOV in 35mm equiv) might prove to be a very nice street photography solution. Olympus doesn't have a recent offering in the professional market. Their flagship, the E-1, is already 3 years old. Rumors are going that a replacement might be annoucend at Photokina next September. Which makes the current E-1 a true bargain. Search on eBay for the Cameta Auctions. They're selling new E-1's with a SHLD-2 powergrip and the very good 2.8-3.5 14-54 (28-108 equiv) lens for a steal. It's older technology, and the autofocus is not up to Canon and Nikon standards, but AF is spot on, and it does have the benefit of a built in dust removal (like all other 4/3 cameras so far).

The Olympus flash system is far less advanced than the Canon and Nikon systems though. Also does the 4/3 sensor, which is smaller than an APS sensor as in the Nikon/Canon startup line, imply some limitations in offering noiseless higher ISO settings. I have no problem using my E-1 up to ISO 400, ISO 800 is good as long as you get the exposure right, 1600 neats treatment by an anti noise application and 3200 is hardly usable. The newer DSLRs (E500 and E330) are better, but still not as good as Nikon and especially not as Canon. The benefit of the 2x crop factor the smaller sensor gives, is that the lenses, considered their 35mm field of view, are a bit smaller than the lenses for 1.6 (Canon) or 1.5 (Nikon) crop factor cameras.

Also, Panasonic will be out with the DMC-L1 4/3 DSLR, presumably in September. This will have a fast Leica lens (built by Panasonic) with optical image stabilization. It will have similar Live View capabilities as the Olympus E-330 has, and shares the sensor with that camera. It's not out yet, so not much is known in this stage other than that. And that it has full analog-like control (aperture ring, shutter speed ring) which might appeal to some.

Personally I use an E-1, 14-54 standardzooom, 50-200 telezoom, and 50 macro lens (all medium grade lenses, not the professional lineup that is very expensive, and not the consumer grade kit lenses). I also have the consumer flash FL-36, and a teleconverter and extension tube. That's all I personally need. But as Pathfinder said, this might be all fine for amateurs like me, doing this as a hobby. I know I'll never have the need for a full range of lenses. My current collection of the walkaround zoom, the tele and the macro lens should probably suit me fine in the foreseeable future. If you're the type that would like a tilt shift lens, fast prime lenses, highest autofocus speed and a shot at second hand options, staying with Canon or Nikon might be the best choice. It'd be probably also be the best solution if you see yourself active on the buy and sell market. Me, I just bought things that I'd though I'd use for more than just a few years, with the exception of the body, fully aware that I would never want this to be more than a hobby.

Maybe others can tell a bit more about what they feel might be a good choice in the lineup of the brand they're currently using, especially after you've explained what you see in your future in photography. Like ziggy said: What do you want to shoot? Do you want to do paid jobs? Stuff like that makes it easier to answer questions like this.

Great concise write up of the Oly 4/3s system. I find some very attractive things here - the camera/lens combinations are small, light, and hgih quality. Thanks again, Marlof.

stevesieren · May 5, 2006

d7o
rebel xt d70 d200 canon5d listed by price. I use a d70 and like it.

http://sierenphotography.com

SpeshulEd · May 5, 2006

I think another camera you may want to check out would be the nikon d50. Its quite reasonably priced and has been getting rave reviews from many online review sites and photography magazines.

However, if you still have the pentax slr, and glass for that...if the lenses work on the pentax dslr's, you may want to stick with that option.

vangogh · May 5, 2006

SpeshulEd wrote:

I think another camera you may want to check out would be the nikon d50. Its quite reasonably priced and has been getting rave reviews from many online review sites and photography magazines.

However, if you still have the pentax slr, and glass for that...if the lenses work on the pentax dslr's, you may want to stick with that option.

Thanks for all the suggestions. When I first decided I wanted to go digital I was looking at the Nikon D70, but then someone said that they had used Nikon for years, but had switched to Canon & now swore by it, so that's why I've been asking for advice. So I guess I've got a lot of reading & comparison work to do

My Pentax has a 28-80 lense, so I don't know if that would be able to be used on a dlsr.

At the moment portrait & general "action"/travel shots are the way my work seems to be going, but I'd like the facility to be able to capture "action" as it happens, not necessarily high end sports events though, just normal out & about stuff.

Thanks again
Nicola

MarkM6 · May 5, 2006

Low Light pictures.....
If you want to keep adding pictures to your Low Light section of your gallery, you know which one to get...

jdfaith · May 5, 2006

vangogh wrote:

My Pentax has a 28-80 lense, so I don't know if that would be able to be used on a dlsr.

Your lens will work with a Pentax DSLR. As the Pentax DSLR's have a 1.5 crop factor, it would be the equivalent of a 42-120mm.

If that's the only Pentax lens you have, you don't have a whole lot of skin in the game and switching to another camera manufacturer would be an easier decision.

Regards,

John

cmason · May 5, 2006

vangogh wrote:

My Pentax has a 28-80 lense, so I don't know if that would be able to be used on a dlsr.

I was in a similar situation a year ago. I decided to go Canon, primarily because I already had a Canon film camera and lens. I don't regret it at all, but my decision, based on the lens I had, should have involved much more research: my lens is fairly old, and not good quality. Didn't know this at the time. So I recommend that you read reviews of the lens you have and determine if it is the lens you want to base your platform decision on. If it is a keeper, then your platform is easy.

vangogh · May 6, 2006

MarkM6 wrote:

If you want to keep adding pictures to your Low Light section of your gallery, you know which one to get...

Yes I do! I can't believe that the D70 only goes to 200 ISO. That's even worse than the creative I've got now (160). I checked out the Canon yesterday & that goes to 100 ISO but is heavier, so its swings & roundabouts. Looks like I can have one thing but not the other. I can't have both unless I've of lots of dosh! Any one want to buy a Virago?

Go on! You know you want to feel the wind in your hair & cruising the countryside in this beautiful weather

gus · May 6, 2006

20D canon...but im very biased.

Aloner · May 6, 2006

If you want good high ISO, a low ISO setting, and light weight I'd say you should go with the Canon Digital Rebel XT (350D).

Rebel XT - 17.1 oz
D70s - 21 oz

I've used the Rebel XT (but own a D50) and it's a great camera and lots of fun to use!

Good luck picking!

swintonphoto · May 6, 2006

I am an Olympus user myself. I have the E-500. It is a remarkable tool for the price. The 8mp sensor is only matched by the Digital Rebel XT in the affordable DSLR (others are only 6mp). It's build quality is as good as the Nikon, and the lenses are fabulous. The two lens kit comes with a 14-45 and a 40-150 lens (equivalent to 28-90 and 80-300 in 35mm). They feel sturdy and built better than the Canon kit lens on the XT (Plus you get 2 of them!). Olympus lenses are one of their strengths. The body of the E-500 is light, and VERY well designed. It fits well in you hand - The XT feels too small to hold.
The FL-36 provides a very affordable external flash option. Olympus also has a great line of lenses.
All in all, this camera (in my opinion) is as good as or superior to any other budget DSLR on every front with one exception. That is noise at high ISO. 100-400 ISO noise is low, as good as any other competitor. However when you get to 800+ it is not as good as the Canon (though in my own tests, not as much a difference as canon owners would like to claim). I have compared the images at high ISO in the E-500 to images in the 30D, and obviously the 30D is better. However, the E-500 does pretty well. If you use a good noise reduction program, the ISO noise is virtually a non-issue.
DSLR's are finally reaching the point where most of the manufacturers have great cameras for great prices. Most are good options. Just remember that when you buy into a system, you are locked into that system in a sense because of the lenses.
I suggest the Olympus - it has been wonderful for me. I love it. But, go try them out, hold them, find friends who have them and find what fits for you.

MarkM6 · May 7, 2006

Lots of "dosh"?
You live in West London...act like one!

Liza · May 7, 2006

I agree with the recommendation of the Canon 350D. It's light, has good low light performance, and would afford you the opportunity to use any of Canon's great lenses.

vangogh · May 8, 2006

Excited now!! |Definitely Canon!!

Liza wrote:

I agree with the recommendation of the Canon 350D. It's light, has good low light performance, and would afford you the opportunity to use any of Canon's great lenses.

Popped into the camera shop in this morning! Just handled both the Canons 350D & the Rebel! No batteries so couldn't fire them up, but going back this evening to try again!.

Now its a toss up between these 2! The Rebel feels wonderful in my hands, only slightly bigger & heavier than my Fuji. The hand grip fits like a glove! & I can reach all the controls easily. The price? Only £599.00 with a 18-55mm lens. The 350D was good too, but slightly heavier & didn't feel quite as comfortable in terms of grip, but of course it has the display wndow at the side etc so it would be. Price £899.00 & an 18-55 lens. 100 iSO on both which is what I wanted & 8 megapixels. A Sigma lens on both. Theres no comparison between them & the Nikon. It has to be Canon.

Exicted now!!:D

Scott_Quier · May 8, 2006

vangogh wrote:

Popped into the camera shop in this morning! Just handled both the Canons 350D & the Rebel! No batteries so couldn't fire them up, but going back this evening to try again!.

Now its a toss up between these 2! The Rebel feels wonderful in my hands, only slightly bigger & heavier than my Fuji. The hand grip fits like a glove! & I can reach all the controls easily. The price? Only £599.00 with a 18-55mm lens. The 350D was good too, but slightly heavier & didn't feel quite as comfortable in terms of grip, but of course it has the display wndow at the side etc so it would be. Price £899.00 & an 18-55 lens. 100 iSO on both which is what I wanted & 8 megapixels. A Sigma lens on both. Theres no comparison between them & the Nikon. It has to be Canon.

Exicted now!!:D

To help ensure you know what you are looking at...

The dRebel (aka 300D) is a 6.3 megapixel instrument.
It's the dRebel XT (aka 350D) that is 8+ megapixel.

vangogh · May 8, 2006

Scott_Quier wrote:

To help ensure you know what you are looking at...
The dRebel (aka 300D) is a 6.3 megapixel instrument.

It's the dRebel XT (aka 350D) that is 8+ megapixel.

Its definitely the XT! BUt someone here has mentioned that there are new ones cming out in a couple of months so I might wait. At least I know which make I want now! Thanks everyone for your input!

vangogh · May 8, 2006

MarkM6 wrote:

You live in West London...act like one!

One what?

Oh you mean (she says in very posh voice) "When I have attained large amounts of capital with which to purchase said photographic apaaratus!!"

or do you mean "When I've got the spondoolicks? Wedge? Folding stuff? Filthy looka, cash or sharpnel?

vangogh · June 2, 2006

What DSLR - update!
After all the great advice from you guys, I went to my local camera shop to try the Canon 350D XT/Rebel thinking it was THE one for me!! What a disappointment. I liked the feel & the weight etc, I hated the vertical dial to change the ap etc. It was difficult to move & hurt my fingers. Unfortunately they didn't have the 30D in some I'm going to try a different store to see how it feels. I'm also going to have a look at the new Sony when it comes out & possibly the Panasonic.

Tiem for a rethink

Cliff Photo · June 2, 2006

vangogh wrote:

After all the great advice from you guys, I went to my local camera shop to try the Canon 350D XT/Rebel thinking it was THE one for me!! What a disappointment. I liked the feel & the weight etc, I hated the vertical dial to change the ap etc. It was difficult to move & hurt my fingers. Unfortunately they didn't have the 30D in some I'm going to try a different store to see how it feels. I'm also going to have a look at the new Sony when it comes out & possibly the Panasonic.

Tiem for a rethink

I haven't read all the posts here, but have you held a current nikon DSLR? They are generally the class of the group for ergonomics...Of course I might be a little biased.

vangogh · June 3, 2006

Cliff Photo wrote:

I haven't read all the posts here, but have you held a current nikon DSLR? They are generally the class of the group for ergonomics...Of course I might be a little biased.

I did try my brother's D70S but found it a bit unweildy. What I don't like about the Nikon's is that they only go to 200 ISO. I want something that goes to 100.

SeattleYates · June 3, 2006

Depending on budget, I'd choose a 350D (Rebel XT), 30D, or (for considerably more money) 5D.

If you get either the 350D or 30D (both 1.6x cropped sensors), I would suggest -- assuming you don't have lots of money to spend on glass -- getting the Sigma 18-200 zoom lens, perhaps instead of the kit lens that comes with the camera (i.e., forego the kit and just buy the body, using the savings toward the Sigma lens).

Eventually you'll want lots of lenses (don't we all?!) -- e.g., a Canon 10-22mm for wide angle, a 70-200mmL for telephoto, and perhaps a 100-400mmL for long telephoto -- but for normal shooting, such as on holiday, or just for the sake of having "one lens" that will serve you well in 95% of situations, the Sigma 18-200mm is hard to beat. Tamron also makes an 18-200mm, but from what I've read, the Sigma is generally considered slightly sharper and better. If you decided to spend a lot more and get a 5D, which has a full-frame sensor, you couldn't use the 18-200mm, so I'd suggest you look at the Tamron 28-300mm, which is roughly equivalent, and a similarly "all purpose" lens.

All of the above is Canon, but only because that's what I use and am most familiar with. The latest gen Nikons are also fabulous cameras, so which manufacturer you go with is really a matter of personal taste/preference (which "feels" best in your hand, etc.). The reason I would suggest sticking with either Canon or Nikon is that they have a broad range of lenses available, and will always be at/near the cutting edge with new technology. Other brands make excellent gear, but aren't as sure to be still making it 10 years from now IMHO.

Liza · June 3, 2006

A Canon 350D and a 17-85IS lens would be a good place to start. The 350D is extremely light and is capable of producing images of excellent quality with its CMOS sensor. It is a very good consumer-level DSLR. I purchased one for my yearbook staff and have been satisfied with its performance.

vangogh · June 4, 2006

Liza wrote:

A Canon 350D and a 17-85IS lens would be a good place to start. The 350D is extremely light and is capable of producing images of excellent quality with its CMOS sensor. It is a very good consumer-level DSLR. I purchased one for my yearbook staff and have been satisfied with its performance.

As I mentioned above I've just tried the 350D rebel. I didn't like it. I didn't like the dial for the apparture. Why couldn't they make it horizontal rather than vertical. Horizontal is so much easier to use (for me anyway - I've got very small hands). It hurt my finger & was awkward for me to use. I did go into another camera shop yesterday & had a play with all their examples. I had a go with the 30D, which was better but the ap dial still felt uncomfortable, although I liked the overall feel & you had to go through some sort of weird ritual to change the ISO, or that's what it seemed like when the guy showed me what buttons to press. I also tried the pentax & Samsungs, which were reasonable but are only 6mp. The one that felt the best ergonomically was the Nikon D50, but again its only 6mp with an ISO of 200. I'm now waiting for the new Sony & Panas to come out to see how they feel. My new DSLR is out there somewhere.....

What DLSR should I buy?

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