We haven't refused anything. We tried one approach, and many of the galleries were removed. I'm not happy about it, and not comfortable with the external links on the site, and where they lead. So we're having discussion about it internally.
I really just would like an answer to a few questions if possible...
1. Can SmugMug literally 'pull the plug' and shut this guy down? Not for any *reason* per se, but could they go into thier server software and just go "pop" and he's gone?
2. If so, exactly why haven't they?
3. If they did so what would the possible ramifications be?
Thanks,
Anthony
If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
One last thing before bed...
In my opinion, I was correct in my usage of the word "REFUSED", (as in "SmugMug has REFUSED to pull the plug on this guy")
Based simply on this (taken from smugmug's 'terms' page), taken verbatim:
"termination
Smugmug agrees to terminate your account at any time upon notice from you, at help@smugmug.com. Smugmug may terminate your account or youraccess to and use of the Services, with or without cause at any timeand effective immediately, at Smugmug's sole discretion, for anyreason, including but not limited to your failure to conform with theseTerms. If you violate these Terms, Smugmug, in its sole discretion, may also elect to require you to remedy any violation of these Terms, and/or take any other actions that Smugmug deems appropriate to enforce its rights and pursue all available remedies.
Upon your termination of your account, you will not recieve a refund for any subscription fees previously charged to, or still remaining, on your account. In the event we have to collect unpaid amounts owed to Smugmug on your account, you will be liable for all attorneys' and collection agency fees."
Emphasis is mine.
Just to be sure here it is again:
"SMUGMUG MAY TERMINATE YOUR ACCOUNT OR YOUR ACCESS TO AND USE OF THE SERVICES, WITH OR WITHOUT CAUSE AT ANY TIME AND EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY AT SMUGMUG'S SOLE DISCRETION FOR ANY REASON"
(again, emphasis mine...)
So, I repeat without apology, that SmugMug has REFUSED to terminate this persons account, when they clearly could have.
If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
Sex perverts are everywhere, do we have to hide all the photo's that seem to them as provocative, and the rest of us in the photography/modeling business as just normal photo shoots?
Yes, sex perverts are everywhere. And look, the metadata, from <link removed>, as reported by the registar. <link removed> is one of your PROMINENT links on <link removed> YOUR website.
While we are at it can we rip all the links from Dgrin? He is likely getting a great deal of publicity from search engines (like Google) which find all these links here. At least encode them (for example <www dot google dot com>). This way people can go there if they desire but his perverse business won't receive a bump in ratings.
Please chill. There's no need to be nasty about this. Civil debate please, only. Throwing stones and making threats are not helpful, either.
If you'll take the time to read my posts above, you'll see that I'm not happy about this site at all.
Now that that's out of the way...
Can you show me child porn - because if you can that'll help the situation.
I just checked the site again... It appears to be blocked. Thank you..
I am not going to apologize for what I said, because I was trying to wake you up.. I honestly see no differnce between the perverted organizations I referenced and what has been going on with this one account, children need adults to be adovates against abuse, not just spectators with rules to create the illusion of absolution.
I can be grumpy about silly things like features I want.. and I need to watch that.
But this was just a festering sore on smugmug. It has been clear from almost day one that your service was being used as a gateway to his porn business. It shouldn't have taken this many users doing all the research. You should have been curious after it was pointed out. Smugmug is clearly a smart company on the technical side, I hope to see it catch up on the social conscience side..
If there is anything in your written policies that you really felt tied your hands this long, it is time to edit the policies to deal with accounts used as referal sites to obscene / potenitally illegal sites.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Yeah, because those are all the same as child porn. And, yes, I realize there is no obvious nudity, but this guy is up to no good. I never thought I'd have this much of a philosophical disagreement with smugmug. I'd really love to hear from someone at smugmug besides Andy on this.
I'm confused_ this poster seems to be against pmalands site yet has the same name?
Anyway - I have looked at the linked pics and cannot see anything but beautiful family pics. I am baffled how anyone could see anything questionable there. This is categorically not suggestive an any erotic manner whatsoever - to see that it could be requires a HUGE leap of the imagination. (unless somehow we're looking at different pics?)
EDIT: DOH! see the posts below
It's all too confusing for me I'm off to take pics!
I'm confused_ this poster seems to be against pmalands site yet has the same name?
Anyway - I have looked at the linked pics and cannot see anything but beautiful family pics. I am baffled how anyone could see anything questionable there. This is categorically not suggestive an any erotic manner whatsoever - to see that it could be requires a HUGE leap of the imagination. (unless somehow we're looking at different pics?)
Not so much sites mixed up as comments. There was what we used to reffer to in the old days of the message boards of the net (like late 90's) a snert who at the bigging of the thread tried to compare pmalands photos from his site to the photos pmaland was complaining about. The snert (snot nosed egotistical rude twerp (not the exact words we used but well you get the idea)) was simply trying to create trouble and it worked for a couple posts as a couple people got confused as to who was making what comments. Once everyone put their glasses back on everything was back to complaining bout the "person" running the offending "talent" site.
Not so much sites mixed up as comments. There was what we used to reffer to in the old days of the message boards of the net (like late 90's) a snert who at the bigging of the thread tried to compare pmalands photos from his site to the photos pmaland was complaining about. The snert (snot nosed egotistical rude twerp (not the exact words we used but well you get the idea)) was simply trying to create trouble and it worked for a couple posts as a couple people got confused as to who was making what comments. Once everyone put their glasses back on everything was back to complaining bout the "person" running the offending "talent" site.
Not so much sites mixed up as comments. There was what we used to reffer to in the old days of the message boards of the net (like late 90's) a snert who at the bigging of the thread tried to compare pmalands photos from his site to the photos pmaland was complaining about. The snert (snot nosed egotistical rude twerp (not the exact words we used but well you get the idea)) was simply trying to create trouble and it worked for a couple posts as a couple people got confused as to who was making what comments. Once everyone put their glasses back on everything was back to complaining bout the "person" running the offending "talent" site.
Andy any chance of getting this thread closed or removed as it has links to questionable sites in it and well the issue is resolved now so no need to keep dredging it up and having more people get confused.
huh Andy I know your old but your eyes aren't that bad. I said at the begining (boy my typing is not right today) of the thread. As is on the first page. Dudes name started with an E........
Mean People Suck
OK those of you who've been here long enough know that I really think that the "flame" icon is over-used.
I'm using it now.
So, suppose someone violates our terms of service. We shut the site down. We give that person a FULL refund of the $99.95 (it doesn't say in our terms that we have to do this). The person and I email, correspond, plenty, yes, a full refund will be given. The DAY after the site is shut down, this person makes a complaint to the Better Business Bureau that we shut down his site and he wants a refund. We sent the refund check the day after we shut the site down, as promised.
OK those of you who've been here long enough know that I really think that the "flame" icon is over-used.
I'm using it now.
So, suppose someone violates our terms of service. We shut the site down. We give that person a FULL refund of the $99.95 (it doesn't say in our terms that we have to do this). The person and I email, correspond, plenty, yes, a full refund will be given. The DAY after the site is shut down, this person makes a complaint to the Better Business Bureau that we shut down his site and he wants a refund. We sent the refund check the day after we shut the site down, as promised.
MEAN PEOPLE SUCK :soapbox
Terms of service are there for all to read, how can one complain if a violation is acted upon?
There are people in this world at all levels , who, if they don't get their own way , whether it is reasonable or not, act in a way that most well adjusted adults would consider vindictive, or spiteful, or irrational, or just plain childish.
How they ever get to be adults without eradicating this trait when children (when it's supposed to be sorted!) is a mystery but they are usually not sufficiently self aware to EVER change.
Better off without them - as the very apt saying goes: 'Good riddance'
Comments
Hi Mongrel,
We haven't refused anything. We tried one approach, and many of the galleries were removed. I'm not happy about it, and not comfortable with the external links on the site, and where they lead. So we're having discussion about it internally.
We take these situations very seriously.
Thanks for posting.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it.
I really just would like an answer to a few questions if possible...
1. Can SmugMug literally 'pull the plug' and shut this guy down? Not for any *reason* per se, but could they go into thier server software and just go "pop" and he's gone?
2. If so, exactly why haven't they?
3. If they did so what would the possible ramifications be?
Thanks,
Anthony
Hi PMA,
Could you give me the provenance for this? IOW, how did you get from mouseboysmovies to the link of the offender? Thanks, this will help.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
In my opinion, I was correct in my usage of the word "REFUSED", (as in "SmugMug has REFUSED to pull the plug on this guy")
Based simply on this (taken from smugmug's 'terms' page), taken verbatim:
"termination
Smugmug agrees to terminate your account at any time upon notice from you, at help@smugmug.com. Smugmug may terminate your account or your access to and use of the Services, with or without cause at any time and effective immediately, at Smugmug's sole discretion, for any reason, including but not limited to your failure to conform with these Terms. If you violate these Terms, Smugmug, in its sole discretion, may also elect to require you to remedy any violation of these Terms, and/or take any other actions that Smugmug deems appropriate to enforce its rights and pursue all available remedies.
Upon your termination of your account, you will not recieve a refund for any subscription fees previously charged to, or still remaining, on your account. In the event we have to collect unpaid amounts owed to Smugmug on your account, you will be liable for all attorneys' and collection agency fees."
Emphasis is mine.
Just to be sure here it is again:
"SMUGMUG MAY TERMINATE YOUR ACCOUNT OR YOUR ACCESS TO AND USE OF THE SERVICES, WITH OR WITHOUT CAUSE AT ANY TIME AND EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY AT SMUGMUG'S SOLE DISCRETION FOR ANY REASON"
(again, emphasis mine...)
So, I repeat without apology, that SmugMug has REFUSED to terminate this persons account, when they clearly could have.
Not asking for apology - thanks. I'm saying that it's being worked on and give us a break here while we have discussions about it, ok?
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Andy, this thing has been hanging out like dirty underwear for months.
A break? I don't see this as really requiring a "break" it requires a simple action based on substantiated facts.
Pull the plug, then take all the time your need to talk about it.
anyway...
Time for bed,
Good night and take care,
Mongrel
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?whoistoken=12
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
While we are at it can we rip all the links from Dgrin? He is likely getting a great deal of publicity from search engines (like Google) which find all these links here. At least encode them (for example <www dot google dot com>). This way people can go there if they desire but his perverse business won't receive a bump in ratings.
smugmug nickname: mpmcleod
http://www.michaelmcleod.com/
Andy,
Here's a link that may be of interest.
Cheers,
David
SmugMug API Developer
My Photos
I just checked the site again... It appears to be blocked. Thank you..
I am not going to apologize for what I said, because I was trying to wake you up.. I honestly see no differnce between the perverted organizations I referenced and what has been going on with this one account, children need adults to be adovates against abuse, not just spectators with rules to create the illusion of absolution.
I can be grumpy about silly things like features I want.. and I need to watch that.
But this was just a festering sore on smugmug. It has been clear from almost day one that your service was being used as a gateway to his porn business. It shouldn't have taken this many users doing all the research. You should have been curious after it was pointed out. Smugmug is clearly a smart company on the technical side, I hope to see it catch up on the social conscience side..
If there is anything in your written policies that you really felt tied your hands this long, it is time to edit the policies to deal with accounts used as referal sites to obscene / potenitally illegal sites.
Thank you for finally blocking the site.
It's not blocked but gone.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I'm confused_ this poster seems to be against pmalands site yet has the same name?
Anyway - I have looked at the linked pics and cannot see anything but beautiful family pics. I am baffled how anyone could see anything questionable there. This is categorically not suggestive an any erotic manner whatsoever - to see that it could be requires a HUGE leap of the imagination. (unless somehow we're looking at different pics?)
EDIT: DOH! see the posts below
It's all too confusing for me I'm off to take pics!
...pics..
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
YUP
Oh well looks like it's been sorted anyway
...pics..
OWW!
Boy the guns sure are blazing in here:uhoh
I'm outa here!
...pics..
Huh....
Andy any chance of getting this thread closed or removed as it has links to questionable sites in it and well the issue is resolved now so no need to keep dredging it up and having more people get confused.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
OK those of you who've been here long enough know that I really think that the "flame" icon is over-used.
I'm using it now.
So, suppose someone violates our terms of service. We shut the site down. We give that person a FULL refund of the $99.95 (it doesn't say in our terms that we have to do this). The person and I email, correspond, plenty, yes, a full refund will be given. The DAY after the site is shut down, this person makes a complaint to the Better Business Bureau that we shut down his site and he wants a refund. We sent the refund check the day after we shut the site down, as promised.
MEAN PEOPLE SUCK :soapbox
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Terms of service are there for all to read, how can one complain if a violation is acted upon?
There are people in this world at all levels , who, if they don't get their own way , whether it is reasonable or not, act in a way that most well adjusted adults would consider vindictive, or spiteful, or irrational, or just plain childish.
How they ever get to be adults without eradicating this trait when children (when it's supposed to be sorted!) is a mystery but they are usually not sufficiently self aware to EVER change.
Better off without them - as the very apt saying goes: 'Good riddance'
Your job must be trying at these times!
...pics..