just got a visit from Homeland Security...

sthig

Hey,

I'm a mild mannered freelance photographer that makes about .00002 cents profit off of it. I know my (f)rights and where to take pictures. Yesterday I was taking pictures of buses all lined up in a row (it was a nice symmetrical look of school buses...I've still not finished processing the pix or I'd post it).

A few minutes ago I get a knock on the door from a representative of Homeland Security asking me what I was doing taking picturs of school buses yesterday. How he got my street address and where I lived is beyond me (I guess someone wrote down my tag number.

He was nice enough but inquired a lot about what I did and wanted to see my pictures. This really shook me up as I've never broken the law or have done anything that would be considered a terrorist act.

I just thought I'd share that with you guys. This is not a made up "spam your friend's email boxes with this story" type email. I live on the outskirts of Atlanta in a small quiet suburb and always abide by the law. I just wish the laws were a little more forgiving for people who have lived here their whole #@$@# life.

-scott

Yvette Marie

Holy CRAP!

Thats SCARY! Were they at least nice?

If ANYONE is gonna hunt ME down, I want it to be either Mel Gibson ( hubba hubba ) or Ed McMahon with his prize patrol.

How weird is that? Was your living room at least cleaned up? Id be inviting them in and clearing off laundry from the couch so they could sit.

YEEKS!!

Yvette

ChrisJ

That is creepy... I hope he was a legit agent. Did he have a warrant to look at your pictures?

Harryb

Scary experience Scott. I would imagine that some alarmist saw you taking the pics and decided the only reason why anyone would take pictures of school buses would have to be something related to terrorism. They probably got your license plate number and made a call.

Homeland Insecurity then did their job and checked you out. Its a sign of the times I fear. We have to take extreme precautions to protect our liberties such as the freedom from unreasonable search. Guess that was a bad example. I mean how can we protect our liberties unless we give them up.

Seriously I understand their concern but I can just think of couple of hundred more productive things for our protectors to be doing.

Yvette Marie

oh yeah.. and I just want to add here...

(( wiping a tear from my eye )) you guys do me proud... 'buses' instead of 'busses'. ;o)

Our school here sends out memos all the time with "busses" on em. ARGH.

;o)

Harryb

Yvette Marie wrote:

oh yeah.. and I just want to add here...

(( wiping a tear from my eye )) you guys do me proud... 'buses' instead of 'busses'. ;o)

Our school here sends out memos all the time with "busses" on em. ARGH.

;o)

A school speliing buses busses. :yikes Now that's something to be concerned about. If you ask I bet they will tell you that spell check didn't pick up the mistake.

sthig

he was very nice but stern. No I didn't let him in the house but it really infuriates me that I can't take a picture of a damn bus. sheesh, will post pic here soon.

I told him I could get on google maps right now and pinpoint the exact location...so could Osama. But he said that Osama would not be able to get the detail that I could.

Detail??? of what? that the buses were yellow???

they didn't even have kids in them or anything.

sthig

here is my picture that was considered to be such danger that Homeland Security came to my house

Harryb

sthig wrote:

here is my picture that was considered to be such danger that Homeland Security came to my house

Now that explains everything. If al-Qaida had access to those shots the mind boggles.

sthig

yes, notice how I got the bus colors of yellow...Aboo will certainly know the where and how of to blow up three buses.

Bodley

sthig wrote:

he was very nice but stern. No I didn't let him in the house but it really infuriates me that I can't take a picture of a damn bus. sheesh, will post pic here soon.

I told him I could get on google maps right now and pinpoint the exact location...so could Osama. But he said that Osama would not be able to get the detail that I could.

Detail??? of what? that the buses were yellow???

they didn't even have kids in them or anything.

Just to play devils advocate - Lets just say a school bus exploded with 35 kids aboard a month later - How many of you would be screaming for Bush's head and ranting about Homeland Security not following up on this lead. Saying they are just a bunch of lazy government workers doing nothing.

Hard to have it both ways. Don't forget this country has produced its share of nuts so just being born here doesn't make you above suspicion.

I'm not saying I agree with big brother watching my moves (it would be a boring show) but I don't know where to draw the line and glad I'm not the one charged with that decision.

I wonder how many of the seemingly innocent encounters have lead to preventing an incident?

sthig

I agree but disagree. I think the patriot act is lacking one GIANT thing..."common sense."

Orwell was off by 22 years.

mercphoto

sthig wrote:

I agree but disagree. I think the patriot act is lacking one GIANT thing..."common sense."

Orwell was off by 22 years.

Bodley is relatively correct about this one. Everyone wants their rights protected UNTIL something bad happens, then they complain that some lead wasn't followed, etc.

But everyone is thinking too narrow about this. This is a symptom of a much larger problem. Americans are risk averse, and this affects people on both sides of the aisle. The conservatives are risk averse with security, and we see that with the Patriotic Act and investigating people who take photos in public places. The liberals are risk averse with a different set of items that affects people in negative ways as well. The recent debates over Social Security is just one example, where thanks to the paranoia of one segment of the population I am getting lousy returns on a portion of my retirement nest egg. They don't want to take a risk, they want a guarantee, and that negatively effects me.

The problem isn't terrorism. The problem isn't Homeland Security. The problem isn't George Bush. The problem is we want guarantess that fundamentally cannot be guaranteed (whether that be safety, or retirement, or jobs, or whatever). And when government tries to appease the public by guaranteeing what cannot be guaranteed, bad things will happen.

sthig

Merc

clap

Harryb

Bodley wrote:

Just to play devils advocate - Lets just say a school bus exploded with 35 kids aboard a month later - How many of you would be screaming for Bush's head and ranting about Homeland Security not following up on this lead. Saying they are just a bunch of lazy government workers doing nothing.

Hard to have it both ways. Don't forget this country has produced its share of nuts so just being born here doesn't make you above suspicion.

I'm not saying I agree with big brother watching my moves (it would be a boring show) but I don't know where to draw the line and glad I'm not the one charged with that decision.

I wonder how many of the seemingly innocent encounters have lead to preventing an incident?

If a terrorist bomb blows up a school bus it won't be because someone took a picture of it. Everybody agrees that we must take necessary steps to protect ourselves but one would hope that these steps would be rational.

A number of the 911 terrorists entered this country on visas and then just stayed here after their visas expired. Currently, almost 5 years after 9/11, we still have nothing in place to track these folks with expired visas down. Now that would be a tad more productive than going after a photographer.

The reason we have incidents like Scott's is because the folks "protecting" us really don't know what to do but they want to look busy until they can figure it out.

Dee

If you weren't male
but female, I wonder if the response would have been the same?

Can you imagine the woman's response? (now, this is for illustrative purposes only [my daughter scrapbooks!])

But I was taking pictures for my child's scrapbook. Riding that bus is a huge part of his/her life, all his/her friends ride the bus. S/he just loves the bus driver of bus 475. And his/her best friend in school rides bus 495. The picture is going to make a great background element for my page.....

Or, I'm a member of a photography forum and the subject is nostalgia. What is more nostalgic than a school bus?

Or me, Are you crazy? Since when is it against the law to take a picture of three nice clean pretty school buses all lined up in a row? My tax money helped pay for those school buses you know! I just thought they made a nice photo, would you like to see my other 50,000 photos that I've taken?

There could be a million reasons why you took that photo (after cloning out the numbers) you were going to submit it to a stock agency. You took it for part of a transportation report related to the PTA. You just like school buses and are going around all the schools to start a collection of school bus photos. You're a school bus salesman and want to use the photo in your company brochure.

You like yellow! :

But you have to remember, in this day and age, anything to do with schools and children is considered suspect, especially if you are male.

It shouldn't be this way and me personally, I'd probably just be speechless!

Richard

Harryb wrote:

The reason we have incidents like Scott's is because the folks "protecting" us really don't know what to do but they want to look busy until they can figure it out.

Well put, Harry. It's really too bad that we let them get away with it. Incidents like Scott's should be a wake up call to everyone that the cure can become more threatening than the threat itself.

Regards,

sthig

here was my whole intent for taking the picture...I thought it'd look cool like this

Bodley

sthig wrote:

here was my whole intent for taking the picture...I thought it'd look cool like this

No doubt it was a legitimate venture on your part.

Lets look at it from the non-photog point of view. Image you portrayed: A stranger in a school bus yard with a fancy camera squatting down taking photos of the underside of school buses. I can see why someone would think "red flag".

Before I got interested in general photography I was deer hunting in an area which was close to a city and saw a man with a telephoto lens shooting photos. I was convinced he was some animal rights activist trying to shut down our activity. When he was just me a few years later. Paranoia with a dash of non-understanding can stoke the imagination.

Stan

sthig wrote:

here was my whole intent for taking the picture...I thought it'd look cool like this

But you only blew the sky
Stan

sthig

and I'm sure all my politically charged bumper stickers don't help my case (I have one that says "oh well, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway").

I can see the argument on both sides, but I think you said something in your last statement, Merc that rings true

"Paranoia with a dash of non-understanding"

Instead of spending billions of our taxes on a thing that doesn't even work ::cough:: fema ::cough:: why not spend it on educating our law enforcement to understand and not be so paranoid.

Or

Maybe instead of changing our 20's into orange bills...we could take those monies and put it to making educational commercials about who NOT to be concerned with...

for example:

"If you see an American taking a picture, he or she is probably not a terrorist but someone that wants to document and record history."

And maybe have Tony Danza do the talking for the public service announcment? (everyone loves Tony Danza...he has hypnotic alien abilities).

Or even better...

"Cameras don't kill people, unless they are Nikon users"

Harryb

sthig wrote:

and I'm sure all my politically charged bumper stickers don't help my case (I have one that says "oh well, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway").

I can see the argument on both sides, but I think you said something in your last statement, Merc that rings true

"Paranoia with a dash of non-understanding"

Instead of spending billions of our taxes on a thing that doesn't even work ::cough:: fema ::cough:: why not spend it on educating our law enforcement to understand and not be so paranoid.

Or

Maybe instead of changing our 20's into orange bills...we could take those monies and put it to making educational commercials about who NOT to be concerned with...

for example:

"If you see an American taking a picture, he or she is probably not a terrorist but someone that wants to document and record history."

And maybe have Tony Danza do the talking for the public service announcment? (everyone loves Tony Danza...he has hypnotic alien abilities).

Or even better...

"Cameras don't kill people, unless they are Nikon users"

Now it makes sense to me. You weren't shooting with a Nikon. No wonder they didn't think you were a legitimate photographer.

sthig

mercphoto

Harryb wrote:

If a terrorist bomb blows up a school bus it won't be because someone took a picture of it.

But, pictures are often taken to aid in the planning of the event. Its called a piece of the puzzle that law enforcement can use to help in identifying the big picture. You build cases and build leads small pieces at a time. You aren't going to simply run across two guys talking in a diner in public about blowing up the Sears Tower.

A number of the 911 terrorists entered this country on visas and then just stayed here after their visas expired. Currently, almost 5 years after 9/11, we still have nothing in place to track these folks with expired visas down. Now that would be a tad more productive than going after a photographer.

I agree completely with the above. And why do people stay here on expired visas? Simply because we let them. For whatever reason, this country refuses to enforce the laws of our borders. We're seeing it right now with Mexican immigration. We're seeing it in the media where illegal aliens are called "undocumented" so that we don't "criminalize" them (hey, they're only breaking the law, after all) or hurt their feelings or lose the votes of the Latin community or whatever. What makes you think we'll deport Arabs on expired visas? The ACLU will just claim discrimination because we are "profiling".

mercphoto

sthig wrote:

Instead of spending billions of our taxes on a thing that doesn't even work ::cough:: fema ::cough:: why not spend it on educating our law enforcement to understand and not be so paranoid.

Because I believe that funamentally the problem is society and what they tell our officials to do, not the officials themselves per se. Not that they are rocket scientists, but they don't bear the full grunt of the blame either.

Maybe instead of changing our 20's into orange bills...we could take those monies and put it to making educational commercials about who NOT to be concerned with...

for example:

"If you see an American taking a picture, he or she is probably not a terrorist but someone that wants to document and record history."

I'm not fundamentally opposed to that idea, but a certain segment of the population would call that "profiling", and that is supposedly a bad idea. This is why Grandma gets searched for a knife or gun at the Airport...

USAIR

Bodley wrote:

No doubt it was a legitimate venture on your part.

Lets look at it from the non-photog point of view. Image you portrayed: A stranger in a school bus yard with a fancy camera squatting down taking photos of the underside of school buses. I can see why someone would think "red flag".

Before I got interested in general photography I was deer hunting in an area which was close to a city and saw a man with a telephoto lens shooting photos. I was convinced he was some animal rights activist trying to shut down our activity. When he was just me a few years later. Paranoia with a dash of non-understanding can stoke the imagination.

Been harrassed like this many times.
And understand how strange it looks to some people when you do the "photog squat"
But all it takes is just go over and talk to the photographer and all could be cleared up.
Look here

Fred

raian

Thanks for sharing this. I'm sorry this happened to you. The actual picture gave me a good chuckle I am sitting here wondering what you look like? Do you fit the "mid eastern" mould (dark hair, skin, eyes). I'm wondering if a blonde woman had been behind the camera, would anyone have bothered to think it was suspicious? The mind boggles indeed. And, BTW, the shot is fantastic!

sthig

i look like Bull from nightcourt.....

only i'm much stupiderer

colourbox

raian wrote:

Do you fit the "mid eastern" mould (dark hair, skin, eyes). I'm wondering if a blonde woman had been behind the camera, would anyone have bothered to think it was suspicious?!

Interesting you should mention that. The group "Improv Everywhere" did a stunt where the entire group streamed into a Best Buy all wearing Best Buy-type clothes, harmlessly saturating the store with impostor employees and freaking out the actual employees, and they carried several cameras to record the stunt. Several cameras were spotted and asked to leave, but who did they not bother at all? The blonde woman in the group, who had the largest and most obvious video camera.
http://www.improveverywhere.com/mission_view.php?mission_id=57

"While the cops were questioning Agents Shafer and EMartin, we had two other cameramen filming the interaction. Agent Carlson remained undetected filming from a Best Buy demo camera, and despite the fact that her camera was the least hidden, Agent Reeves was never discovered. Perhaps being tall, blonde, and female had something to do with her camera not being noticed."

evil eggplant

Consider the NSA domestic spying program. Now consider that the NSA illegally gathers information on every call made by every American.

My advice to you, consider this a wake up call, the result of 6 years of the United States operating under single-party rule. Come November, vote to restore the system of checks and balances our Founding Fathers intended.

sthig wrote:

Hey,

I'm a mild mannered freelance photographer that makes about .00002 cents profit off of it. I know my (f)rights and where to take pictures. Yesterday I was taking pictures of buses all lined up in a row (it was a nice symmetrical look of school buses...I've still not finished processing the pix or I'd post it).

A few minutes ago I get a knock on the door from a representative of Homeland Security asking me what I was doing taking picturs of school buses yesterday. How he got my street address and where I lived is beyond me (I guess someone wrote down my tag number.

He was nice enough but inquired a lot about what I did and wanted to see my pictures. This really shook me up as I've never broken the law or have done anything that would be considered a terrorist act.

I just thought I'd share that with you guys. This is not a made up "spam your friend's email boxes with this story" type email. I live on the outskirts of Atlanta in a small quiet suburb and always abide by the law. I just wish the laws were a little more forgiving for people who have lived here their whole #@$@# life.

-scott

Seefutlung

sthig wrote:

I agree but disagree. I think the patriot act is lacking one GIANT thing..."common sense."

Orwell was off by 22 years.

^5 ... I had a similar experience. I do construction management consulting. I photographed the construction progess of a Post Office ... when two days later I was ambushed by a couple of federal agents at my home. I provided the names and phone numbers of a dozen postal managers that would have verified who I am. I mentioned a waste of taxpayers money and they gave me the ol' 9-11 pitch. My retort was a simple call to any of those postal manager at the site in question would have cleared up the matter and saved taxpayers money and your time in devising and executing this ambush. (the agents knew I was right and walked away). I believe that the fereral government has way too much power ... and I believe that enforcement agencies priorities are focused on the attainment of their personal goals with little or no regard and concern to safeguard our personal freedoms (what little are left). I didn't let them see the pixs.

-Gary-