Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I agree but disagree. I think the patriot act is lacking one GIANT thing..."common sense."
Orwell was off by 22 years.
You ain't justa whistlin' Dixie :uhoh
The sad part of the whole thing is that it's all just smoke and mirrors. Just milling about smartly and hoping that the American people believe HS is actually doing something about security. We are just as vunerable today as we were on Sept 10, 2001. HS has done zero, squat, nada. They still aren't even checking all baggage for explosives on planes. But, they have the resources to check out a potential school bus terrorist? Gimme a break. There's a difference between working hard and working smart.
What's really sad is that very few people are challenging our loss of rights. As much as I have hated the ACLU all these years, I am tempted to donate some money to them. At least they see through this cr@p.
Being the crusty old fart that I am, I would have been nose to nose with Mr Homeland Insecurity (thanks Harry for that term....lol) and called the cops on him. Give me a warrant or get the heck off my property afore I turn the dogs loose on ya
How can people be so gullible. Does anyone really think the Big Brother concept can work? IMHO, all it can do is slowly erode away the rights we have fought so long and so hard to protect. For the last few years and for the first time in my life, I am no longer proud of my government or with how the country is being run. Maybe I'll just hang it up and retire to the great white North or Oz :cry
Or, maybe I'll just mosey down to the school bus yard, first thing Monday morning to take some photos.... I just loves a good fight
The initial discussion had value on a photography forum because it dealt with something many of us have dealt with and/or possibly will be dealing with in the future as photographers.
I think it will be sooner rather than later my friend.
Perhaps they will issue credentials to photographers willing to pony up a
few bux for the "pre-screen"
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
I think it will be sooner rather than later my friend.
Perhaps they will issue credentials to photographers willing to pony up a
few bux for the "pre-screen"
Ian that's the beauty of wildlife photography. I ain't never had an egret file a complaint yet. When I shot in NYC I got hassled daily. I've been hassled on the subway and every commuter train system; I've been kicked out of Bryant Park because I looked like a pro; I was accused of being a peeping Tom while taking macro shots of flowers; I've been run off and/or questioned by more cops and security guards than I can recall.
I'm sticking to wildlife, its much more relaxed. Since I moved to Florida I've only been hassled once. I was taking pictures at a rally where John Edwards spoke. I took a picture of a secret service agent and he got upset because he felt I was blowing his cover. Take a look at the pic. Can you possibly guess who's the agent here? He's cleverly disguised so that he fits right in so its a tough call. :lol4
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Ian that's the beauty of wildlife photography. I ain't never had an egret file a complaint yet. When I shot in NYC I got hassled daily. I've been hassled on the subway and every commuter train system; I've been kicked out of Bryant Park because I looked like a pro; I was accused of being a peeping Tom while taking macro shots of flowers; I've been run off and/or questioned by more cops and security guards than I can recall.
I'm sticking to wildlife, its much more relaxed. Since I moved to Florida I've only been hassled once. I was taking pictures at a rally where John Edwards spoke. I took a picture of a secret service agent and he got upset because he felt I was blowing his cover. Take a look at the pic. Can you possibly guess who's the agent here? He's cleverly disguised so that he fits right in so its a tough call. :lol4
That's easy. It's the guy in the red t-shirt :lol4
Having had the pleasure of working with them once, I know they are deadly
serious about what they do. Otherwise, they're pretty nice guys when the
party's over.
You're absolutely correct about the wildlife. They hardly ever complain and
that's a good thing.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
I was taking pictures at a rally where John Edwards spoke. I took a picture of a secret service agent and he got upset because he felt I was blowing his cover. Take a look at the pic. Can you possibly guess who's the agent here? He's cleverly disguised so that he fits right in so its a tough call. :lol4
Haha, that reminds me of the undercover cops in Serpico before he gets them to let undercover cops dress like they're undercover.
Thanks for sharing this. I'm sorry this happened to you. The actual picture gave me a good chuckle I am sitting here wondering what you look like? Do you fit the "mid eastern" mould (dark hair, skin, eyes). I'm wondering if a blonde woman had been behind the camera, would anyone have bothered to think it was suspicious? The mind boggles indeed. And, BTW, the shot is fantastic!
As someone who _does_ basically fit that mold (half pakistani/half white) I've been very conscious of my photographing in public, esp w/pro slr gear.
As someone who also votes conservative & happens to be concerned with natl' security, I understand and try to be graceful (:): , etc.) when I get the "glare". What I don't understand is, when I'm checking through airport security with a backpack full of camera gear/NiMH batteries/ipod/etc, why does it get passed right on through without inspection, yet the dear old (white) grandma in front of me gets pulled aside & her bag inspected (she had scissors or something). I would prefer that they inspect my bag, and the bag of anyone else that looks like me and looks packed full of who knows what. That's not discrimination. That's common sense. (Plus I imagine it would probably be a slight relief to the other passengers in line behind me.)
I think all this discourse about rights, and security, and photography is healthy. Many of those who responded gave clear tell tale to their political opinions without stating them outright. But I think everyone is missing the point here. The terrorists learned well from the cold war how to bring down a superpower. Did we (the US) bomb the Soviet Union? no. Infiltrate them on a large scale? nope. Effectively isolate them from the rest of the world? not really. What we did effectively was run the gas out of the Soviet economic engine, by continually engaging them in an arms and technology race they could not win. So what did we get? A nuclear armed fledgling democracy, new rogue states, and the honor of being the only kid on the block with the 'superpower' target on their back. So what does this have to do with HS people knocking on the doors of innocent Americans taking pictures of buses? How long do you think the fuel in our economic motor can keep running at this level of security? Does this mean I don't think terrorists are planning to attack us again? heck no. But I'm sure they are more than happy to allow the sand and our resources to run through the glass. If this is happening in suburban Georgia, imagine the BILLIONS of dollars sunk into securing DC. I photograph weddings in DC and it can be a bit surreal. While shooting a wedding in the Ronald Reagan building last year, we were thoroughly check upon entering, licenses, cases searched, everything xrayed, metal detected. When we went outside to take pictures 15 yards away in the middle of the street with the bride and groom with us upon returning we went through an even more thorough search, with the xray and the detector. They even wanded down the bride (who had no pockets and no purse). It was utter insanity. Our new hyper vigilance on a larger scale is just as insane as it may prove to be effective only in our own economic demise.
As someone who _does_ basically fit that mold (half pakistani/half white) I've been very conscious of my photographing in public, esp w/pro slr gear. ... What I don't understand is, when I'm checking through airport security with a backpack full of camera gear/NiMH batteries/ipod/etc, why does it get passed right on through without inspection, yet the dear old (white) grandma in front of me gets pulled aside & her bag inspected (she had scissors or something). I would prefer that they inspect my bag, and the bag of anyone else that looks like me and looks packed full of who knows what. That's not discrimination. That's common sense.
You are absolutely correct that is not discrimination and it is common sense. However, a certain portion of the population who politically leans a certain way considers that "profiling", and profiling is supposedly bad. Its not bad, but try to tell them that... sigh.
Blurmore, you have the lesson wrong, however. What we are going through now is not the same as what brought down the Soviet Union. You are correct that the arms race bankrupted them, with Reagan up'ing the ante beyond what they could afford and breaking the camel's back. What the terrorists are doing now is different. They are using the lessons learned from Vietnam, which was that you cannot beat the US military, but you can beat our citizen's will to fight, and that will cause the military to be brought home. Every North Vietnamese general interview will tell you they knew they could not beat the military, but all they needed to do was inflict just enough pain that the American people would give up.
Same thing happened in Somalia (ever read or see Black Hawk Down?). Inflict a little bit of pain and America ducks their tail and runs. That particular battle is one of many things that emboldened Bin Laden.
It's happening again. Inflict some pain in Iraq and the people will lose their will and bring the troops home.
You are absolutely correct that is not discrimination and it is common sense. However, a certain portion of the population who politically leans a certain way considers that "profiling", and profiling is supposedly bad. Its not bad, but try to tell them that... sigh.
Merc, isn't that a hispanic last name you have? If it is, I'll be surprised if my next statement is right, but I'm going to guess you've never been the victim of racism. Only a person who has had to deal with racism can then understand why profiling is really just as bad.
Either way, how is it common sense to not check an old lady? Old ladies can't carry weapons? Ever heard about how the Algerians won their independance? Often they used women because the French have no qualms about profiling, so women, either very old or young and good looking, would get right on through security checks.
And as an American who's parents came here from Iran, I say that the only saving grace throughout all the actions the US has taken lately is that racial profiling was shunned by the people. That and the fact that people didn't fall for that $100 gasoline tax rebate.
You are correct that the arms race bankrupted them, with Reagan up'ing the ante beyond what they could afford and breaking the camel's back.
Yeah, turns out that was largely a misperception based on false intel gathered on the Russians. The CIA study Watching the Bear (it's on cia.gov) is an informative, albeit boring, read. Turns out their military spending was independant from ours.
Gofigger: it's alright, though, for GoogleEarth to have images of the Palmdale-Lancaster-Edwards AFB areas--complete with B-2 bombers! I haven't seen anyone pulled aside for THAT yet!
I'm pretty Iranian looking (what with being born to Iranian parents), and I'm 20. I work in downtown DC and bring my camera with me every day. Today I decided to go down to the white house. There were some protesters being written up by the cops for protesting, took their picture, basically took pictures of anything. I've done this before, but consider that there were gunshots reported at Rayburn today. Capitol hill police were their usual selves: not bothering anybody. The capitol hill police are good people, shown by the time I saw one say to a family "I can't pose for you, but I could just happen to stand here facing you for a few moments." I think the problem is when small potato cops feel they have large duties. Capitol hill cops know whats what, the regular DC police for instance don't. I once had one tell me that I wasn't allowed to take picture of him. Whatever.
So basically the point of this post is to say not all people are safety crazy, only people who don't know how to deal with higher than average risk.
The reason we have incidents like Scott's is because the folks "protecting" us really don't know what to do but they want to look busy until they can figure it out.
My hope is that your assumption is off, but I'm inclinding to believe that you're correct...
Comments
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
You ain't justa whistlin' Dixie :uhoh
The sad part of the whole thing is that it's all just smoke and mirrors. Just milling about smartly and hoping that the American people believe HS is actually doing something about security. We are just as vunerable today as we were on Sept 10, 2001. HS has done zero, squat, nada. They still aren't even checking all baggage for explosives on planes. But, they have the resources to check out a potential school bus terrorist?
What's really sad is that very few people are challenging our loss of rights. As much as I have hated the ACLU all these years, I am tempted to donate some money to them. At least they see through this cr@p.
Being the crusty old fart that I am, I would have been nose to nose with Mr Homeland Insecurity (thanks Harry for that term....lol) and called the cops on him. Give me a warrant or get the heck off my property afore I turn the dogs loose on ya
How can people be so gullible. Does anyone really think the Big Brother concept can work? IMHO, all it can do is slowly erode away the rights we have fought so long and so hard to protect. For the last few years and for the first time in my life, I am no longer proud of my government or with how the country is being run. Maybe I'll just hang it up and retire to the great white North or Oz :cry
Or, maybe I'll just mosey down to the school bus yard, first thing Monday morning to take some photos....
Pardon the rant,
Steve
inconvenience=security
I think it will be sooner rather than later my friend.
Perhaps they will issue credentials to photographers willing to pony up a
few bux for the "pre-screen"
Ian that's the beauty of wildlife photography. I ain't never had an egret file a complaint yet. When I shot in NYC I got hassled daily. I've been hassled on the subway and every commuter train system; I've been kicked out of Bryant Park because I looked like a pro; I was accused of being a peeping Tom while taking macro shots of flowers; I've been run off and/or questioned by more cops and security guards than I can recall.
I'm sticking to wildlife, its much more relaxed. Since I moved to Florida I've only been hassled once. I was taking pictures at a rally where John Edwards spoke. I took a picture of a secret service agent and he got upset because he felt I was blowing his cover. Take a look at the pic. Can you possibly guess who's the agent here? He's cleverly disguised so that he fits right in so its a tough call. :lol4
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
We'll be glad to take you in steve. I'll leave a pass at immigration for you
No pop-corn shrimp but man are you going to love these little fella's !!!!!
That's easy. It's the guy in the red t-shirt :lol4
Having had the pleasure of working with them once, I know they are deadly
serious about what they do. Otherwise, they're pretty nice guys when the
party's over.
You're absolutely correct about the wildlife. They hardly ever complain and
that's a good thing.
The bloke at the back holding up the banner ??
Haha, that reminds me of the undercover cops in Serpico before he gets them to let undercover cops dress like they're undercover.
As someone who _does_ basically fit that mold (half pakistani/half white) I've been very conscious of my photographing in public, esp w/pro slr gear.
As someone who also votes conservative & happens to be concerned with natl' security, I understand and try to be graceful (:): , etc.) when I get the "glare". What I don't understand is, when I'm checking through airport security with a backpack full of camera gear/NiMH batteries/ipod/etc, why does it get passed right on through without inspection, yet the dear old (white) grandma in front of me gets pulled aside & her bag inspected (she had scissors or something).
You are absolutely correct that is not discrimination and it is common sense. However, a certain portion of the population who politically leans a certain way considers that "profiling", and profiling is supposedly bad. Its not bad, but try to tell them that... sigh.
Blurmore, you have the lesson wrong, however. What we are going through now is not the same as what brought down the Soviet Union. You are correct that the arms race bankrupted them, with Reagan up'ing the ante beyond what they could afford and breaking the camel's back. What the terrorists are doing now is different. They are using the lessons learned from Vietnam, which was that you cannot beat the US military, but you can beat our citizen's will to fight, and that will cause the military to be brought home. Every North Vietnamese general interview will tell you they knew they could not beat the military, but all they needed to do was inflict just enough pain that the American people would give up.
Same thing happened in Somalia (ever read or see Black Hawk Down?). Inflict a little bit of pain and America ducks their tail and runs. That particular battle is one of many things that emboldened Bin Laden.
It's happening again. Inflict some pain in Iraq and the people will lose their will and bring the troops home.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Merc, isn't that a hispanic last name you have? If it is, I'll be surprised if my next statement is right, but I'm going to guess you've never been the victim of racism. Only a person who has had to deal with racism can then understand why profiling is really just as bad.
Either way, how is it common sense to not check an old lady? Old ladies can't carry weapons? Ever heard about how the Algerians won their independance? Often they used women because the French have no qualms about profiling, so women, either very old or young and good looking, would get right on through security checks.
And as an American who's parents came here from Iran, I say that the only saving grace throughout all the actions the US has taken lately is that racial profiling was shunned by the people. That and the fact that people didn't fall for that $100 gasoline tax rebate.
Yeah, turns out that was largely a misperception based on false intel gathered on the Russians. The CIA study Watching the Bear (it's on cia.gov) is an informative, albeit boring, read. Turns out their military spending was independant from ours.
But it sure photographs well!
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
So basically the point of this post is to say not all people are safety crazy, only people who don't know how to deal with higher than average risk.
Russ
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots