Oklahoma City

Angelo

Judging by the lack of response to my inquiry about OKC (in an earlier thread) one would assume no one has ever visited. I'm here to say that's a mistake. What a charming town this is.
Here's a teaser to more images I'll post when I return to LA. Today's a travel day.

One from the Oklahoma City National Memorial:

Maestro

Poignant and solemn. You caught the feeling well in the photo.

Antonio Correia

It looks like modern sculpture...
I personaly don't like it at all...
I think sometimes the so called artists - because they are welknown and recognized which is essencial to be an artist - allow themselves to teese people with whatever comes to their minds ...

I could give you an example of a Portuguese sculptor known all over the world who proposes certain kind of things that I think he is teesing people.
http://www.pedrocabritareis.com/


May be I am a stupid ! and I do not understand "the artists"
Here, it looks like chairs...
What does it pretend to represent ?
Yes I saw it is most respectable memorial.
But this ??? for a memorial ? Why ? Where is the symbolism ?
Stupid Antonio ...

Red J

It's of the Oklahoma City Memorial, for the persons who perished in the largest act of domestic terrorism in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_Memorial

Each chair represents a life which was lost. The small chairs are for the children which died in the building's nursery.

Antonio Correia

Red J wrote:

It's of the Oklahoma City Memorial, for the persons who perished in the largest act of domestic terrorism in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_Memorial

Each chair represents a life which was lost. The small chairs are for the children which died in the building's nursery.

I got it now.
But ... a master piece needs explanation ?
Or is it the lack of ideias that conduce to such proposals ?
Saúde

System

Angelo wrote:

Judging by the lack of response to my inquiry about OKC (in an earlier thread) one would assume no one has ever visited. I'm here to say that's a mistake. What a charming town this is.
Here's a teaser to more images I'll post when I return to LA. Today's a travel day.

One from the Oklahoma City National Memorial:

i am terrible sorry i missed your post i would have commented sooner .. what a great pic ...i don't want to hijack your thread but i will post a link to my site ...i was up till 2:30am this morning finishing it up ... hope you come back to okc and well hook up.. i'll show you the backstreet neat stuff...
the chairs are moving...

http://AllensPhoto.smugmug.com/gallery/1689168/1/82954099

System

The Chairs

Antonio Correia wrote:

May be I am a stupid ! and I do not understand "the artists"
Here, it looks like chairs...
What does it pretend to represent ?
Yes I saw it is most respectable memorial.
But this ??? for a memorial ? Why ? Where is the symbolism ?
Stupid Antonio ...

Oklahoma City National Memorial - Chairs at Night
The chairs are constructed of a solid seat and back, mounted atop a glass base, which is inscribed with a victim's name. By day, the chairs seem to float above their translucent bases, just as memories of loved ones seem to float past at any given moment. By night, lighted glass bases accentuate the names of those we miss. The power of 168 shining lights in the darkness is there before us, filling us with hope and inspiration, suggesting that good will prevail in the wake of such tragedy. also they represent the people sprits because they were just going about there daily routine when the horrific act occured..(many were in their seats..at their desk)
if you have never come to see the memorial i will give you a guided tour .. and if a person has a heart beat it will change your life...

http://AllensPhoto.smugmug.com/gallery/1689168/1/82954099 OKC Bombing Memerial Gallery

Antonio Correia

allensphoto wrote:

Oklahoma City National Memorial - Chairs at Night
The chairs are constructed of a solid seat and back, mounted atop a glass base, which is inscribed with a victim's name. By day, the chairs seem to float above their translucent bases, just as memories of loved ones seem to float past at any given moment. By night, lighted glass bases accentuate the names of those we miss. The power of 168 shining lights in the darkness is there before us, filling us with hope and inspiration, suggesting that good will prevail in the wake of such tragedy. also they represent the people sprits because they were just going about there daily routine when the horrific act occured..(many were in their seats..at their desk)
if you have never come to see the memorial i will give you a guided tour .. and if a person has a heart beat it will change your life...

I never doubt - ever - about the feelings and simbolism involved.
As a matter of fact I have been an Architect for 28 years and I perfectly understand emotions involved in such a matter.

I have seen the photos somewhere a while ago, and at night - from a link posted here - and yes it is nice.
But during the day ...
I do not want to patronize anyone but about feelings I can tell you I have been in Dahau and it freezes my spine.
Of course it is a different situation.

But my point is: an object of art is only so when it is socialy recognized and in these days many works are called art and I do not understand them.
Most people don't.
May be that's the point: its only designed to a few ...

As I told before it looks the artist is teasing the public. Pulling their legs.
The artist present a work and - because he is welkown and considered in the millieu - the critics accept and say it is good.


Let me tell you an extreme example which actually happened.
In the Town Hall where I work the power is from the communists.
Poor them. Once - the elected polititians - have choosen an artist for a statue with on thing in mind: the artist must be communist.

I must add that the poor were without any notion of aesthetic principles or whatsoever and they are - the ones involved were - very low garduated. I mean little schoolarity.

Sometimes I like to go and fetch examples from the extremes. These allow us to understand better the middle. The so called Democracy. The best system ever invented by man. So far.

Well enought.
What do you think about my statement ?

Saúde e obrigado by the comment.

System

extremes
i understand about the artist and and the playing of the people that goes on .. but i don' think these are considered or looked at as an art form. they are a symbol of remembrance.. however i may be wrong. people may consider it art...i don't think Oklahomans do..i do see your point of extremes

Dani

a moment of silence

Angelo

Maestro wrote:

Poignant and solemn. You caught the feeling well in the photo.

thank you very much.

I will post more ASAP.

Angelo

Antonio Correia wrote:

It looks like modern sculpture...
I personaly don't like it at all...
I think sometimes the so called artists - because they are welknown and recognized which is essencial to be an artist - allow themselves to teese people with whatever comes to their minds ...

I could give you an example of a Portuguese scuptor know all over the world who proposes certain kind of things that I think he is teesing people.
http://www.pedrocabritareis.com/


May be I am a stupid ! and I do not understand "the artists"
Here, it looks like chairs...
What does it pretend to represent ?
Yes I saw it is most respectable memorial.
But this ??? for a memorial ? Why ? Where is the symbolism ?
Stupid Antonio ...

Antonio:

Thank you for looking and commenting. Of course, I didn't design the memorial, I just photographed it.

Angelo

allensphoto wrote:

i am terrible sorry i missed your post i would have commented sooner .. what a great pic ...i don't want to hijack your thread but i will post a link to my site ...i was up till 2:30am this morning finishing it up ... hope you come back to okc and well hook up.. i'll show you the backstreet neat stuff...
the chairs are moving...

http://AllensPhoto.smugmug.com/gallery/1689168/1/82954099

Thanks Allen. Any of your "backstreet" stuff to see? I'll have my OKC gallery up shortly.

Angelo

another view:

Angelo

one more:

Angelo

/


.

.

Antonio Correia

I must admit that it looks quite impressive and mainly at night with the lights on...

Antonio Correia

and I must admite also that under this perspective the work of art gives an very interesting impresition and transmites the ideia.

So, under these circunstances I mantain my previous words regarding the artists who propose whatever and get the ideia afterwards, and I recognize that this is very good work and - you don't care about a Portugueses thinks I understand - I consider it is very nice and a work of art.

The chairs are so symbolic that they remember those stones which used to appear in the garves. (don't know the English for that)

I am sorry you built that monument for the reason of it's cause. Do I make myself clear ?
I mean:
I am sorry you built this monument for that reason.
You, like myself, we would like the monument did not exist because there was no cause, no victims.

Thank for showing such a work of art.
It is nice to show pieces this valuable.

System

Angelo wrote:

Thanks Allen. Any of your "backstreet" stuff to see? I'll have my OKC gallery up shortly.

i really don't, we have not got there to shoot in a while...usually when i go i have to much of an agenda...looking forward to your gallery.. i was rushed when i took the pix for mine .. my wife was having a hard time being back at the site:cry ... she was there shortly after the bomb went off . she was helping the red cross and clean up efforts...so it's tough for her to go,but see did good . we were there on the 10yr .anniversity..
you pix are great .. my ideas of composure is an area i need a lot of work in..

Harryb

Marvelous shots Angelo. The shot really hits home for me. I used to be vice-president of a local that represented SSA field office workers in NYC. SSA had an office in the Murrah building and 16 of its 50 workers were killed that day. I had met one of the victims at a convention two years prior to the bombing.

Angelo

thanks again to everyone for looking and commenting.

I have other shots in my OKC gallery on my site and hope you'll take a look there also.

I have many more shots to process and post (damn digital memory cards... I'm going back to 36 exposure film!!!)

Seefutlung

I understand Antonio and his remarks pertaining to artists ... and I understand the remarks that the chairs are not art, but a memorial.

If I had a loved one killed in that tragedy ... I think I would perfer something different than a chair to be remembered by.

A memorial which requires reading instructions to fully understand and appreciate, in my book, doesn't convey the full power of what it is trying to memorialize. Be that as it may, it is still interesting and encapsulates a sad event.

As to the 1st photo, one of the strengths of the photo is the abstract quality of the chairs/art placed in an open space. If you cropped down from the top, you could eliminate the background which brings in references to the location ... thereby hightening the abstraction ... going B&W would also increase the abstraction.

saurora

Very nice work, Angelo. I especially like the abstract quality of the first shot. I'm sure it would convert to B&W nicely, but the colors of the metal in the chairs are great as is. I like the way you composed the 2 shots in post # 16, both are very moving. I imagine the chairs look amazing at dusk, like they appear in #15. They must emit an eery glow as the light dims.

THE TOUCH

Very nice Angelo!

Your images bring across the power and emotion of the scene! Love these -

[IMG][/img]http://angelo.smugmug.com/photos/83379975-s.jpg

[IMG][/img]http://angelo.smugmug.com/photos/83380163-s.jpg

THE TOUCH

Let me try that again! I love these -

Angelo

See, Saurora

I prefer the original for various reasons but here's an attempt at your recommendations. Thanks for looking and commenting.

Seefutlung

mmmhhh... yeah not as abstract as I would have hoped. But ... hey ... thanks for trying ... win a few and lose a few. I appreciate the effort ... and I like the shot both in color and B&W (I thought the B&W would have a bit more impact).

Seefutlung

Hope you don't mind .. but this is how I sorta see it ...
OKCNM_02.jpg

saurora

Wow, that's interesting! In B&W it becomes a much more solemn statement to me...almost too solemn! Thanks for trying, Angelo and Gary!:D

Antonio Correia

What stroke me in the work (I mean the sculpture not the photograph) was the repetion of the simbolic chair/lapide and the relationship with environment and scale.
(I introduced here a photo of a tumular stone because this is what I mean by lapide)

I this is not a good photo under that point of view. Too rude ?
I don't agree with what I can remember - correct me if I am wronge - Gary said somewhere: he would like the memory of a dead cherished person to be remembered as a chair...

This it's the ideia I got and remember.
I agree that I may be mistaken (most probably I am) with Gary' s opinion. Language, English, me as Portuguese, clumsy writer and understanding of me etc. etc...

I think the quality lies much in the scale and repetion .
Many interpretations can be given to a work of art.
I can see all the chairs as so, as tumular stones, as candels during the night, as marks of memory...

OK ?

Justiceiro

I'm going to have to go with Antonio on this one.

It's always difficult to criticize a memorial becuase people take it as criticizing those who are to be memorialized. People intimately involved also tend not to understand, I think, that the feelings they have at a site may be aroused more by their intimate connection to the place than by the Art of the memorial.

And yes, it is Art, and ought to be judged by artistic standards.

This reticence on the part of potential critics sometimes allows charlatans or simply bad architects to construct things that really ought not be constructed.

We are facing the same thing near me right now at Liberty State PArk in New Jersey. Take a look at this monstrosity.


I feel the same way about the OKC memorial. It's histrionic. It's blunt and awkward. Plainly speaking, its ugly, and it looks like it was designed by a committee. Apparently, that committee failed to eliminate a single idea brought before it, and mashed them all together.

A good memorial lets a place speak for itself. I think that when you feel what you feel at this place, it is the place speaking, and not the monument. A good monument calls attention to this, and then steps out of the way to let your reflect. This is why the best monuments are simple.