Help! Lulu calendar disaster
DJ-S1
Registered Users Posts: 2,303 Major grins
Well, I finally got my s**t together and made up a calendar just for my family, maybe 5 families. I just got the proof copy and I'm really disappointed in it. Everything is fine except for the photos...I can't send them out to people this way, they look awful!
Basically, most of the shots are washed out. Some of them look like they were lightened a lot. I am comparing the calendar to the proof PDF file. There is no comparison, the colors are muted, peoples faces look grey, almost dirty.
I don't know if they alter the images before printing like a digital photo lab might, but I find that hard to believe. Or maybe my photos really are that bad? My monitor is uncalibrated? :dunno I had to bump them up from 180dpi tp 300dpi. But they look pretty decent on my monitor.
Here's a few that suck on the printed calendar - are they okay? Be honest, if they suck and it's my fault, I want to know!
In this one of the stadium, there are purple-ish vertical bands in the sky, and the print is so light that I can see the details on the face of the curved bridge supports. I can only see those on my monitor if I max out the brightness control.
In this one, the buildings and sun reflections are red, not orange and the sky is gray, not light blue. It may not be a great photo, but in the print it is a terrible photo.
Anyway, if you guys could take a look and see if these look okay to you then I can go yell at Lulu. Could their presses be out of whack?
Basically, most of the shots are washed out. Some of them look like they were lightened a lot. I am comparing the calendar to the proof PDF file. There is no comparison, the colors are muted, peoples faces look grey, almost dirty.
I don't know if they alter the images before printing like a digital photo lab might, but I find that hard to believe. Or maybe my photos really are that bad? My monitor is uncalibrated? :dunno I had to bump them up from 180dpi tp 300dpi. But they look pretty decent on my monitor.
Here's a few that suck on the printed calendar - are they okay? Be honest, if they suck and it's my fault, I want to know!
In this one of the stadium, there are purple-ish vertical bands in the sky, and the print is so light that I can see the details on the face of the curved bridge supports. I can only see those on my monitor if I max out the brightness control.
In this one, the buildings and sun reflections are red, not orange and the sky is gray, not light blue. It may not be a great photo, but in the print it is a terrible photo.
Anyway, if you guys could take a look and see if these look okay to you then I can go yell at Lulu. Could their presses be out of whack?
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I will say this, and I don't think I will do anything about it, just too much hassle.
I previewed every calendar I sent for, then I got a copy, everything was as I
expected, including color intensity. I sent in an order for 15 calendars which I got yesterday. I looked at them, but got them out just now and looked more carefully. The color intensity is still accurate, but there is a streak that probably happened during printing on all photos where the color is plain, by that I mean there is not a lot of business to interrupt noticing the streak. It does make me sick on some of the photos, one in particular is one my youngest daughter loved. Since this is the only present I am giving, it is particularly upsetting.
But to get it corrected would probably take until the end of January. Lots of these need to be mailed. So I will probably mail them. I don't know what I wish, I just wish it hadn't happened. The proof copy is fine. So that way I know it is not my fault.
The color is how I would have expected it, but I would not have expected a line 2/3s of the way over on the photos, it is not a glaring line, just a heavier amount of ink that forms a line.
If anyone talks to LULU, tell her I need these replaced without sending the originals back that there isn't time for that. I will send the others back later.
No, no one needs to tell her that for me, but I do have the proof if someone else wants to use me as an example.
Anyone else can take heed and do what they think best.
ginger
I ordered 10 calendars for presents of one style, they are the favored, one for everyone, including my husband's relatives. Then I ordered 5 extra of a style I liked, too. Those are only extras for my family.
I just looked at the five, they are worse than those ten, with the offending line in the same place. So those are 15 offending calendars.
The proofs are fine. I have two of the favored style in the proofs, and one of the other style. My daughters will get those as the bird one daughter likes, the little sandpiper, it is nicely done in the proof, she loves that picture. The other calendar is one where the covered was messed up, we had already agreed that would go to my other daughter as I ended up not using that cover, so it is the only one.
Now what are all the other people going to think? My two sons.........one of whom, well, we just started speaking again for the first time in years, this Christmas is important. Bill's relatives??? Others.........my best friend is extremely picky. How are they going to KNOW it is the printer's fault not mine.
Ok, I have ranted. I will show my husband when he gets home, but I can't see resolving this in time to send things across country.
ginger:cry
I got my proof copy of my calendar. It looks terrible.
The colors are light in most of them. All of the plain skys have vertical grey streaks in them. It looks like something with their printer.
In the more saturated pictures, the blacks are so thick with ink that they shine. It all looks like a thick glob and the picture has lost all the detail. One of these is my "Foggy Mountaintop" picture with my dog on the top of the hill. This picture looks fine on the monitor. In the print the bushes are all dull globs and the road is completely lost.
I would have to reprocess each picture to either increase or decrease the saturation. Can't do anything about streaks in blue skys. The shots with lots of trees in the sky area are fine except for shiny blacks in the shadows on the ground.
I'd have to say I'm not satisfied at all. I didn't order from Shutterfly because Lulu was a couple dollars cheaper. I guess you get what you pay for. They just look cheap.
This is the one that looks the worst. Streaky sky and dull dark bushes with no detail.
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sorry for your troubles. as i reported earlier, i am really pleased with the results of my calendar. remember, these aren't going to be as good as prints you get made up by smugmug/ezprints, or a professional photo printer of choice. they are offset - pretty darn good imo, and a good deal at about $11 bucks a calendar. i suspect that image preparation is the key to success here, as well as really good color management.
wishing you better luck next time around,
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You guys have just scared the beejeebezz out of me!
I'm still waiting on my LULU calenders that I ordered mid November. Spent a lot of money on x-mas prezzies and i'm running out of time for them to arrive!
My fingers are well and truly crossed that they 1) arrive before x-mas 2) look ok to give away!
Hopefully US Mail and Australia Post will be kind and deliver my goods safe and sound! (i can't track the package either 'cause US and AU don't talk to each other very well).
FIngers crossed, .... everything will be ok...... everything will be ok...... they'll arrive on time ....... it'll be fine........
Kate
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I think you have a point about 11.00 or 10.00 in my case it is a good deal. I think it may be, and I am just guessing, but as we get closer to the holidays, etc. But if it were image preparation, it would have shown up in the proof version, which it didn't.
By the way, my hearing aid dealer was just here, he saw the calendar and wouldn't give it back. It was one of the perfect ones, so I traded with him, same calendar, just that little streak. I had to show him where it was, and he is quite happy to have it. Said the printing thing was nothing. I guess much worse happened to his Jaguar club. I am now concerned I didn't order enough. I certainly didn't expect people to be walking out my door with them.
It made me feel quite good. He kept saying how surprised he was that I could take those photos and when did I start and on and on...... He loved the calendar. Now my color was not off at all, just that little tad of a thing, but the intensity was good. There was one photo that did not print well, and I caught it in a proof. I did not use it.
So, I have mixed feelings. I am quite high right now at how surprised my hearing aid dealer was that I could take such good photos. But having had a "perfect" proof of each style, I wish the others had come that way.
ginger:D
i'm just sayin'
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Personally, I think the printer screwed up. Those vertical streaks in the sky can't be in my files. I think...
This is such a bummer.
Oh, by the way, I wasn't expecting 8x10 glossies or anything. In fact, I was surprised at how clearly they printed; if the colors had been anywhere near what I expected, I'd be singing their praises right now.
lulu has a forum site, it's right here i would ask your questions directly to them, they'd be best to answer.
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Don't bogart that joint my friend
Pass it over to me
Don't bogart that joint my friend
Pass it over to me
Roll another one
Just like the other one
You've been holding on to it
And I sure will like a hit
(Elliot Ingber)
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
Hi,
I have been reading quite a bit on here and also on LuLu about issues. I am awaiting my calendar order..should arrive tomorrow. I had difficulty using the system, finally got it down, ordered a preview and rec'd it in a fairly timely manner. I was satisfied enough with the preview product to make changes and place a substantial order. The only problem in doing that was that somehow,...still don't know...the original calendar got ordered instead of the new updated one. I was in an absolute panic over this because I found there was no way to get in touch with anyone immeadiately to cancel the order. In the help area it said it could take 24-48 hours for a response...well I figured by that time the order would already be into "fullfilling" and I would not be able to cancel and order the correct one. I went to their site and posted all over the place in Panic mode. After about 2 hours I did rec. an email from a staffer. She was able to refund and cancel. She made sure to let me know this is not usually the case. Whew....So I very carefully placed an order for the correct version.
I am keeping my fingers crossed because I did not take the time to order a preview copy of the updated version and I could never get the pdf preview to completely upload.
In reading the LuLu forums it seems many people are complaining about the "lines". My biggest issue is that the company doesn't seem to have any sort of quality control for the products they print. They also do not have any sort of immeadiate help line or customer service. They keep costs down. I can appreciate that, but it is a business that IMO requires the ability to have contact. It is a SELF SERVE company. Use it carefully.
I will let you know how my calendars look when I get them. I am already anticipating that they will have these vertical lines and have accpted it because I was committed to doing this project for my mother.
To be con't...........
Anyway, if there were a few thin vertical lines here and there that you could see if you looked for 'em, I'd still be happy. But weird colors, major lightening, and wide purple stripes are too much.
Good luck with yours!
ginger
We'll see what they have to say. Sorry to vent on y'all like this. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just perturbed. I'll get over it. :slurp
I have to agree with Andy. Honestly, what do you expect for thirteen double-sided pages, spiral bound for $12? I'm happy with mine for the price I paid. Do the photos look great? No. The color gamut of the paper isn't very high. Shadows go to black fast. Colors aren't vibrant. But hey, its cheap.
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This lost nothing in the printing. Actually there were no lines on it, either. Not in the proof and not in the finished product, but that is due to the composition.
This below, as a cover in the full sized, like an 8 X 10, it did not print well, the background trees were messed up. I thought maybe they were too saturated, I did not know, and I did not think I had the time or the inclination to work it out, so I did not use it. I knew it did not print well because of the proof. The foreground was fine, but the trees had like a film over them, and I had done work on the trees, they were dark, required more ink than other things. They had been underexposed, but I am not sure that is the problem, the birds had been underexposed, but they printed fine. I think it might have something to do with color intensity. (That first photo of the boats, it printed like a beauty, and the fence I won the challenge with, great job.)
This one below printed with a slight streak, not even that, I notice it, it was not present in the two different proofs I happen to have, one will go to my daughter who loves this shot.
I will say one thing about the slight color shift, or the "streak", and it is not visible enough to really call it a streak, whatever it is, it obeys the rule of thirds. It is 2/3s across the pictures it is in. Smile.
Anyone want to shoot Jaguars? I am scared to call. But this might give you all an idea of what printed how. The colors were were represented very well, except for that slight line, not noticeable to most people. And only in some photos.
ginger
(the few jpegs had a bit of noise. More than a bit to some, probably. Except that fence for the dunes had no noise, it was a jpeg.) Any questionable photo (I did three calendars), any photo where the focus, color, anything, was a bit questionable, it was exaggerated, it seemed in the printing of the calendar. Some I kept anyway, I liked them enough to live with the imperfections. The one calendar, the one everyone wants, I did not put any questionable shots in it. Oh, that shot of the dogs I am using for my holliday wishes, it is in the "good" calendar for december, without wreath, I did not have it then. It is the same as you see on the monitor. Great color.
Basically the shots that printed well were easy shots to print in the first place.
Whew,...she breathes a sigh of relief. I couldn't get the very well boxed calendars open fast enough. They came out Soooo much better than I had anticipated. I made sure to brighten up my photos for this calendar because in the preview they looked washed out.
I am so very pleased! They must have fixed their printer problem because their are NO vertical lines. Photos that didn't print the best are photos that have a light sky or blank all one color area. But I am relieved and pleased and I will be sure to let them know.
On a scale of 1-10...I give them a 9...only because they neglected to punch a hole for hanging in all of the calendars.
In looking over their site last night it appears that they are trying hard to get things right...Kudos LuLU!
I really don't think my expectations were too high, I think in this one case the printing screwed up. I doubt if you saw this print you would think it was acceptable, for $12 or any amount. One mistake doesn't make a bad company or product, it just messes my plans up a bit.
As a graphic designer I must tell all of you there is a huge difference in how you handle your files in Photoshop.
First convert to CMYK immediately. It's usually backwards from what designers or pre-press people will recommend, but certain colors do not convert well from RGB to CMYK, and why be disappointed at the end of all that hard work.
I searched long and hard but could not find any "press setting" recommendations on the web site.
Press settings will tell you how to set up your dot gain, minimum gray tone needed and maximum black needed. Other settings such as web or sheetfeed and which swop settings to use should be supplied.
If your blacks look shinny or have no detail there's too much black in the image.
How can you tell what's going on? You have to use the eyedropper on your image and your numbers should range from 5 to 95 or 10 to 90 depending on the press and the stock (paper) used.
What you see on your screen as a pale blue when eye droppered probably is only a 2 percent Cyan and a 1 percent Black -- this will drop out (as the expression goes) on the press.
The first thing beginning designers "should" learn is they need a CMYK process book and to use their eyedropper and "look up" the color in the printed sample or swatch to see what it will "really" look like when it's printed. Some colors you see on your monitor will not "translate" to CMYK.
Now that you know how tricky it is you can understand that if you send RGB files to a CMYK printer, a conversion will have to be made (or you will get black and white images back) by the pre-press people.
To test this, work in RGB with hot pinks and hot magenta colors and hot green colors as well. Optimize your photo, then convert to CYMK. The change should be obvious on your monitor.
Check your blacks and if you have close to 100 on all four channels (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black) you are asking for a muddy mess.
I think it's amazing you are getting decent prints at all! (grin)
The streaks are something else again, and there shouldn't be any banding -- if there's enough "noise" in your image.
Also check your image at 100% and scroll around the image looking for banding, spots, etc. Be sure to fix these before sending them to Lulu.
If you have properly prepared your image, and then get streaks and banding, then by all means complain loudly and bitterly to keep them on their toes.
You can imagine why they don't post this information on their site -- it would scare anyone off who hasn't been working with offset printers before.
Complain for obvious problems, but remember your recipients (as long as they aren't printers or designers) won't even notice minor imperfections.
Because I'm such a pill, I haven't sent for a calendar, preferring to print my own. However, I just learned of a place in Berkeley who does this type of printing and if they allow me to view their plant and their samples, then I would know what I'm dealing with and I might try them.
So to sum up, some of the problems aren't yours or Lulus, it's part of the conversion process and lack of an easy way to explain how to set up CYMK files.
To be honest, I'm surprised so many of you are happy with the calendars. :-)
That says quite a bit for the process they've set up.
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thank you so much for sharing your expertise here, dee. this is great stuff.
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It seems I learned from Smugmug that when we send our pictures in for prints, they assume they are RGB and print accordingly.
So how are we to know when a site like Lulu, it looks semi professional, but it obviously deals with non professionals. How are we to know if they want RGB or CMYK?
I am happy with mine as all I had was slight banding, except for a black in a proof and didn't use the photo in the final, so all I had was slight banding and the price made it possible for me to give presents I wouldn't have given otherwise.
Besides, I can be unhappy, or I can be happy. My banding is not a major problem, I choose to be happy.
However.............how do we know if it is RGB or CMYK?
ginger
A graphic designer friend of mine said "welcome to the world of printing" and said she deals with inconsistent printing all the time. I guess at this point it's just the stripes that really are the issue. From what she says, if I order another print with the same file, it could come out completely different and stripe-less.
I saw Andy's post a while back ago, about the lulu calendars and decided that I would give them a shot and make my own as Christmas presents for family members. I ordered six of them and got them back today.
I'm not very pleased. They were marginally acceptable in my opinion. They all seemed to have a greenish/greyish cast to them for some reason. And I too wasn't expecting smugmug quality prints either. I knew I was going to sacrifice a little quality for price.
Ginger 55 stated, "Any questionable photo (I did three calendars), any photo where the focus, color, anything, was a bit questionable, it was exaggerated, it seemed in the printing of the calendar." And I found this absolutely true. Keep in mind that I'm relatively new to photography got hooked real bad on it about 6 months ago so I'm no where near the level of most people on this forum.
The bottom line for LuLu in my opion is : If you take pixel perfect photos like Andy and a lot of the other forum members you will probably will be happy with them. If you don't shoot pixel perfect photos (like me) those little imperfections will be greatly exaggerated and you will be disappointed.
Your designer friend is right! So much depends on the press, and even more importantly, who is running the press that day! :-)
My print broker likes this one printing plant, but refuses to work with one of their printers, who shall remain nameless.
If you don't see stripes in your image (looking carefully at 100%) and you have enough color (more than 5% in any channel that has color) you shouldn't see stripes.
Other factors, use the least amount of JPEG compression that you can, make sure you have the minimum of 150 dpi, 300 preferred. Unless you are good at upping the resolution, I'd be more likely to tell Lulu to print my image as is.
Before I'd send a calendar to Lulu I'd be asking support exactly what they need, and letting them know I'm a graphic designer used to working in CMYK for over 15 years. The minute I started asking them for their dot gain, they'd know I knew what I was talking about.
If they requested RGB, I'd ask what equipment they are using to print the calendar. And then I'd request a profile.
It goes back to the audience, I'd notice, my husband and daughters would notice, but my son-in-law and his family would be clueless! :-)
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Lynn