alternative to iPhoto? just for viewing

DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
edited January 23, 2005 in Finishing School
So I thought iPhoto was the answer to my dreams, but now I'm not sure. I was anti iPhoto for a while, because I didn't want it organizing my files differently. I'm anal, and good at using photoshop to batch rename my files and directories - they're all perfect.

With my move to the mac, as much as I hate to admit it, I missed windows explorer, it made looking through folders of photos easy. I tried iPhoto today, and for a while, it seemed like it was my fix to windows explorer... until I looked in the iPhoto directory - there they were, on top of aliases to all the photos I had imported were duplicates of the photos themselves! I don't need or want that.

Is there a way to disable this (I looked, unsuccessfully)? If not, is there an alternative browser or viewer for photo files? The thumbnails in mac OS just don't appear fast enough in the folders to be useful. the main motivation for this is uploading to smugmug btw.

I can't believe I miss something about my PC :cry :wxwax
Erik
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Comments

  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 17, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    So I thought iPhoto was the answer to my dreams, but now I'm not sure. I was anti iPhoto for a while, because I didn't want it organizing my files differently. I'm anal, and good at using photoshop to batch rename my files and directories - they're all perfect.

    With my move to the mac, as much as I hate to admit it, I missed windows explorer, it made looking through folders of photos easy. I tried iPhoto today, and for a while, it seemed like it was my fix to windows explorer... until I looked in the iPhoto directory - there they were, on top of aliases to all the photos I had imported were duplicates of the photos themselves! I don't need or want that.

    Is there a way to disable this (I looked, unsuccessfully)? If not, is there an alternative browser or viewer for photo files? The thumbnails in mac OS just don't appear fast enough in the folders to be useful. the main motivation for this is uploading to smugmug btw.

    I can't believe I miss something about my PC :cry umph.gif

    iPhoto should only make dupes of images that you've edited. As far as I know.

    I use iView Media Pro. It's not cheap, and does more than you want, I suspect. iView Media is a cheaper solution, but doesn't support RAW.

    You could try PhotoMechanic, also.

    Both available at versiontracker.com where you could probably drum up some other ideas.

    Also, have you tried just using column view? you can expand the column with your image in it to a fairly large size and just enable preview, boom, you can see your images in the finder.
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  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited December 17, 2004
    DavidTO wrote:
    iPhoto should only make dupes of images that you've edited. As far as I know.

    I use iView Media Pro. It's not cheap, and does more than you want, I suspect. iView Media is a cheaper solution, but doesn't support RAW.

    You could try PhotoMechanic, also.

    Both available at versiontracker.com where you could probably drum up some other ideas.

    Also, have you tried just using column view? you can expand the column with your image in it to a fairly large size and just enable preview, boom, you can see your images in the finder.
    iphoto definitely dupes evertything - i just imported images in a couple hours ago, and they were immediately duped.

    i gave column view a try - not bad, but painfully slow - same problem as just viewing the folders in thmubnail view. I would prfer to just do it that way, but its so slow! takes a second or so per image at least.

    surfing over to versiontracker now.
    Erik
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  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited December 17, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    iphoto definitely dupes evertything - i just imported images in a couple hours ago, and they were immediately duped.

    i gave column view a try - not bad, but painfully slow - same problem as just viewing the folders in thmubnail view. I would prfer to just do it that way, but its so slow! takes a second or so per image at least.

    surfing over to versiontracker now.
    yeah, so...you import images into iphoto, so it creates a new image in the library. You have the option of deleting the original, rather than keeping it on the card or in the folder. That works really well for me on jpeg snaps, but since iphoto doesn't do RAW, I still need to file the RAW images in a folder.

    I feel your pain, but I actually LOVE iphoto for what it is...a filing system...and it makes uploading albums to smuggy really braindead.

    ymmv. ne_nau.gif
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited December 17, 2004
    fish wrote:
    yeah, so...you import images into iphoto, so it creates a new image in the library. You have the option of deleting the original, rather than keeping it on the card or in the folder. That works really well for me on jpeg snaps, but since iphoto doesn't do RAW, I still need to file the RAW images in a folder.

    I feel your pain, but I actually LOVE iphoto for what it is...a filing system...and it makes uploading albums to smuggy really braindead.

    ymmv. ne_nau.gif
    yeah, i could adapt, but i just don't like it. i want be able to get to the original file, in the right folder, at any time. currently my folders are organized nicely - iphoto puts them in all those extra 12, 7, 8 folders. whats up with that? I don't get it.
    Erik
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  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited December 17, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    yeah, i could adapt, but i just don't like it. i want be able to get to the original file, in the right folder, at any time. currently my folders are organized nicely - iphoto puts them in all those extra 12, 7, 8 folders. whats up with that? I don't get it.
    The iphoto library organizes by "roll"...that probably has something to do with the naming conventions.

    There's really nothing preventing you from using a standard folder/directory structure and using Finder to navigate through them.
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 17, 2004
    iPhoto is an exceptional app for someone who is struggling with computers and just wants to shoot pictures. Dupes your images so you can always revert to the original.

    It's pretty good for an intermediate photographer, allowing you to open it in PS Elements, edit it and not have to worry about media management. And it's integration with .Mac, iMovie, iDVD, etc. is great.

    But for an advanced user, it's not much use.
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  • DeeDee Registered Users Posts: 2,981 Major grins
    edited December 17, 2004
    iPhoto not easy to use
    But for an advanced user, it's not much use.[/QUOTE]

    I gave up on iPhoto, it just doesn't think the way I do. I use iView Media (not Pro) and use it to catalog and offload my photos. I specify the folder I want the photos to be filed in, and store the catalog with the photos.

    Then I have a "master" catalog of catalogs, so to speak. As soon as I get a CDs worth, the photos and catalogs get backed up. I use CD finder to catalog the CDs.

    I've been using it for years.

    I didn't like iPhoto duplicating my images (small internal hard drive) and I couldn't easily figure out how to use the darn thing! I use photoshop everyday in work, so I guess like a simple point and shoot camera, iPhoto is just "too simple" for me to figure out I guess. I lost patience with it instantly and gladly paid for iViewMedia.
    http://www.deegolden.smugmug.com
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  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited December 17, 2004
    so unfortunately, iView is probably what I'm looking for - but it doesn't solve my smugmug issue. doubt I can drag files over to the smuggy box right from iView, can I?

    back to my finder issues - is finder slow for everyone, or just me? for example, for all the thumbnails (set at 60x60) to load in a folder of say 40 images, takes well over a minute.

    I'm still new to Mac, is there any sort of caches or temp stuff that should be periodically cleaned? PC maintenance always made it run faster.
    Erik
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  • NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited December 18, 2004
    I'm really sorry to hear this, buddy
    If it were wintel system, I'd be able to suggest you quite a few alternatives, including even custom programming.. But with Mac - sorry, it seems like you have to stick with what's on the menu.

    Hope you will either find a solution, or be able conform yourself to whatever Mac has to offer. Come think of it, only 10-15 years ago the very thought of storing dozens of thousands of hi-res pictures in the computer seemed to be a pure sci-fi, so the life has definitely improved:-)

    Cheers!1drink.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited December 18, 2004
    Anybody know how Qpict compares to iView? There's no mention of iPhoto in the iView manual, but Qpict is pretty explicit about its ability to import from iPhoto. With over 6k images in iPhoto, not being able to import them into a new cataloging program is unacceptable.

    It also seems that Qpict was written for Mac, but iView seems like a port from Windows. All of the images in the manual are of XP screens eek7.gif
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited December 18, 2004
    fish wrote:
    Anybody know how Qpict compares to iView? There's no mention of iPhoto in the iView manual, but Qpict is pretty explicit about its ability to import from iPhoto. With over 6k images in iPhoto, not being able to import them into a new cataloging program is unacceptable.

    It also seems that Qpict was written for Mac, but iView seems like a port from Windows. All of the images in the manual are of XP screens eek7.gif
    I'll check out Qpict - anyone here using it?

    And how bout my Mac OS maintenance quiestion? Someone out there must have an answer for that... where the heck is Patch?!
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited December 18, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    And how bout my Mac OS maintenance quiestion? Someone out there must have an answer for that... where the heck is Patch?!
    Assuming you're running OS X, there really isn't any maintenance required (UNIX). If you leave your mac on 24/7, there are daily, weekly, and monthly scripts that clean up logfiles and whatnot, but nothing critical that would slow down your system. If you don't keep it on 24/7, go get macjanitor and run it once in a while.
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • DeeDee Registered Users Posts: 2,981 Major grins
    edited December 18, 2004
    iView was Mac only
    It also seems that Qpict was written for Mac, but iView seems like a port from Windows. All of the images in the manual are of XP screens eek7.gif[/QUOTE]

    They recently made a Windows version!
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  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 18, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    so unfortunately, iView is probably what I'm looking for - but it doesn't solve my smugmug issue. doubt I can drag files over to the smuggy box right from iView, can I?

    back to my finder issues - is finder slow for everyone, or just me? for example, for all the thumbnails (set at 60x60) to load in a folder of say 40 images, takes well over a minute.

    I'm still new to Mac, is there any sort of caches or temp stuff that should be periodically cleaned? PC maintenance always made it run faster.

    I always drag directly from iView to smugmug uploader, if that's what you're talking about. Works great. In fact I have a set called "Upload" where I collect images I want to upload. Then I clear it out the next time and it's ready to upload a new batch. Is there any other reason why you said that it's unfortunate that iView is what you're looking for?

    iView is a great app. One time I had my catalog get corrupted, so always make sure you have a recent back up available.

    Also, there's a great whitepaper on workflow and iView that goes beyond the manual. I highly suggest that you read it: Workflow PDF

    The other alternative for you is Extensis Portfolio. But unless you need a networked media manager used by a large group of people, iView is a much better alternative. I tried Portfolio, and hate it.

    One last: there's an app that's based on Filemaker that Lynnesite turned me onto called MediaMaid. Not the most intuitive product, but it is another alternative that might work for you. Having said that, Lynnesite uses iView Media Pro as well. In fact, she's the reason I use it.
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  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 18, 2004
    fish wrote:
    Anybody know how Qpict compares to iView? There's no mention of iPhoto in the iView manual, but Qpict is pretty explicit about its ability to import from iPhoto. With over 6k images in iPhoto, not being able to import them into a new cataloging program is unacceptable.

    It also seems that Qpict was written for Mac, but iView seems like a port from Windows. All of the images in the manual are of XP screens eek7.gif

    It's the other way around, iView was a long-time Mac only product that was recently ported to Windoze. They just wrote their manual for the masses, i.e. computing majority.
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  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 18, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    I'll check out Qpict - anyone here using it?

    And how bout my Mac OS maintenance quiestion? Someone out there must have an answer for that... where the heck is Patch?!

    I disagree with Fish. There is some maintenance that every mac user should run, and here's my $.02:

    1) Unix crons: they do run if you keep your system on 24/7, but who does? Macjanitor is great, i used to use it, but I now recommend Macaroni. It's a system pref that will run the daily, weekly, monthly crons and also REPAIR PERMISSIONS (very important) and remove localized files (not really maintenance, but something you may or may not want to do). The UNIX stuff is important to keep your machine running smoothly, and is scheduled for the middle of the night, based on the theory that a UNIX machine will be on 24/7. But since yours most likely isn't, you need to invoke those commands in another way. You can do in the terminal or use one of many GUI apps to do it. Macaroni is customizable, but basically, once it's installed, you don't need to worry about it, since it runs in the background during idle time. Permissions need to be repaired periodically because like everything else in this world, they become corrupted over time. You can do that in Disk Utility, but why bother when Macaroni will take care of it for you? Localized files are for all the language support for things like Azerbaijan (sp?), simplified Chinese, etc. You don't need any of them if you are an american english speaker. Otherwise, you can basically delete every one of them that doesn't apply to you. Can save you 500mb of disk space and unburden you from unecessary files. I set Macaroni to remove localized monthly, figuring that system updates will put all those things back on my system, and I don't want them.

    2) Disk maintenance: You need a good disk utiltiy, and the best is Disk Warrior. It will repair/rebuild your disk directory, which like permissions and all else in this world, will become corrupted over time. If the corruption becomes too bad, your drive will need to be completely reformatted. Regular maintenance should avoid that. Monthly, is what I recommend.

    3) Back-up: Your drive will fail. It's just a matter of when. Back up, and back up often. The solution I prefer is to have a firewire drive that's big enough to hold everything on my internal drive, and I make an exact clone using SuperDuper! so that if I do crash I am back up and running on my last back-up after a simple restart. Drives have gotten so cheap that it really makes sense. It greatly simplifies the process.

    4) Other things: You can use Panther Cache Cleaner to clean all of your system caches. Could speed things up considerably. Or, you may have a corrupt preference file, and you could run Preferential Treatment to test all your prefs. Maybe you've crammed your drive too full: leave 10% free space open at all times. Maybe you don't have enough RAM: put in as much as you can.

    That's what I can think of now. I'm sur there's more things that you could do to speed things up, though.

    EDIT: Here's another thing I thought of: make sure you are running the latest OS. If you're on Jaguar, upgrade to Panther (although Tiger will be coming out in 3-6 months, so you may want to hold off). And run Software Update, but only after repairing permissions.
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  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited December 18, 2004
    Well now...I just learned some stuff. Thanks! Downloaded macaroni and it's very cool.
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 18, 2004
    fish wrote:
    Well now...I just learned some stuff. Thanks! Downloaded macaroni and it's very cool.

    Quite welcome. I actually find myself retyping this information all the time, especially now that all my Windoze friends are upgrading to Macintosh. Well, two, anyway.

    In the interest of helping both my computing friends and my tired hands, I put this page together with all this info.

    Please take a look and let me know what you think. And if you're a Mac geek, let me know if I got anything wrong.
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  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited December 19, 2004
    David, you are my hero. Thanks for answering all my question! thumb.gif

    I think iView is still too much app for me ($$$), but perhaps I'll demo it and love it. I'm especially glad to know I can drag right in to smuggy from it (that was my only concern).
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 19, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    David, you are my hero. Thanks for answering all my question! thumb.gif

    I think iView is still too much app for me ($$$), but perhaps I'll demo it and love it. I'm especially glad to know I can drag right in to smuggy from it (that was my only concern).

    iView Media Pro is $200, but iView Media is only $50, and may work for you. Also, I took a look at Qpict, which is only $35. It's lacking a lot of features that I can't do without, but if you're really just looking to use it for viewing, it would be fine. I would just say that iView gives you more room to grow. And along with RAW support, iVMP also gives you automated folder watching, which sounds like it might appeal to you.

    There's a great whitesheet on iVMP workflow here that goes beyond the manual in explaining how iVMP can fit into your workflow. Good reading.

    Also, there's a good tutorial on Panther Troubleshooting here.
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  • patch29patch29 Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited December 19, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    where the heck is Patch?!

    I have been working to finish albums and prints for Christmas. The final batch should ship out tomorrow and when not working I have been sleeping or biking, I still have yet to get a ride in on my new mountain bike.

    I use iview for some work, it is definitely one of the fastest browsers, but for what I do the browser in C1 pro is all I usually need. I think it will do what you want. Sorry you caught me sleeping. :snore
  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 19, 2004
    patch29 wrote:
    I have been working to finish albums and prints for Christmas. The final batch should ship out tomorrow and when not working I have been sleeping or biking, I still have yet to get a ride in on my new mountain bike.

    I use iview for some work, it is definitely one of the fastest browsers, but for what I do the browser in C1 pro is all I usually need. I think it will do what you want. Sorry you caught me sleeping. :snore

    I use C1 Pro as well. The newest version, 3.6 is slow for some reason, but they're supposed to be releasing 3.6.1 soon. And talk about money...the pro version is $500. LE is $100, though, might be worth considering, but no real cataloging abilities.
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  • patch29patch29 Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited December 19, 2004
    DavidTO wrote:
    I use C1 Pro as well. The newest version, 3.6 is slow for some reason, but they're supposed to be releasing 3.6.1 soon. And talk about money...the pro version is $500. LE is $100, though, might be worth considering, but no real cataloging abilities.

    3.6 has been a little slower, especially the sliders and previews, but it is ok. I really need a much faster machine, one day I will have one. deal.gif My jobs are very client specific so I just leave sessions on a hard drive and go back to them in C1 if I need them, but typically they order by number for I don't have a big need for searching. One day if I have the time I might catalog my images with keywords, but right not it would not benefit me much.
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited December 20, 2004
    Well, David's maintenance suggestions helped - definite improvement in the performance. I didn't know that was how UNIX worked... with the powerbook, its mostly on for a short period of time, several times a day.

    I downloaded Qpict - pretty simple, which is what I was looking for. Saves just index files. So I can make an index of a month of pics, and save them in my directory for that month (I'm a slave to chronological order :D).

    However, I should inform you all that I'm a mental midget. I'm a happy user of the PS CS file browser, and it never occured to me that I could try dragging straight from there to smuggy. I'm embarrased to say it works. I like Qpict for being able to view lots of stuff and more sorting options (and slideshows for when I want to show friends) but to be honest, I think I'll use it sparingly.

    Great tips from all though. Thanks :D!!
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited December 20, 2004
    patch29 wrote:
    I have been working to finish albums and prints for Christmas. The final batch should ship out tomorrow and when not working I have been sleeping or biking, I still have yet to get a ride in on my new mountain bike.
    boo hoo

    :cry

    I've ridden the pedal bike once in the last two months. And today we got 6" of snow, so the plan to get some holiday riding in is out the tubes as well. umph.gif
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 20, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    Well, David's maintenance suggestions helped - definite improvement in the performance. I didn't know that was how UNIX worked... with the powerbook, its mostly on for a short period of time, several times a day.

    Ooooooohhhhhhh---you've got a Powerbook.

    Check your Energy Saver Options, you can control your processor speed there. Actually applies to all Macs, but especially with laptops where battery consumption is an issue.

    Anyway, I would set processor performance to highest, but only for the power supply settings, not the battery settings.
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  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited December 20, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    Well, David's maintenance suggestions helped - definite improvement in the performance. I didn't know that was how UNIX worked... with the powerbook, its mostly on for a short period of time, several times a day.
    If you look at what macaroni does, it's pretty much just cleaning up files and rotating log files. Shouldn't be a huge impact on performance. Sure, over time, it might bog it down, but I wouldn't expect a dramatic increase. Unix is NOT anything like winders, where a few funked up settings will hose it.
    I downloaded Qpict - pretty simple, which is what I was looking for. Saves just index files. So I can make an index of a month of pics, and save them in my directory for that month (I'm a slave to chronological order :D).
    I'll wait until you have a few more hours on it before biting deal.gif
    However, I should inform you all that I'm a mental midget.
    Tell us something we don't know, doc lol3.gif
    I'm a happy user of the PS CS file browser, and it never occured to me that I could try dragging straight from there to smuggy. I'm embarrased to say it works. I like Qpict for being able to view lots of stuff and more sorting options (and slideshows for when I want to show friends) but to be honest, I think I'll use it sparingly.
    Hmmm. dopage? have you gotten into Hummer's stash? headscratch.gif
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited December 20, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    David, you are my hero. Thanks for answering all my question! thumb.gif

    My pleasure. 1drink.gif



    lol3.gif
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited December 20, 2004
    DoctorIt wrote:
    I've ridden the pedal bike once in the last two months. And today we got 6" of snow, so the plan to get some holiday riding in is out the tubes as well. umph.gif
    What about the motorbike?
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited December 20, 2004
    DavidTO wrote:
    Ooooooohhhhhhh---you've got a Powerbook.

    Check your Energy Saver Options, you can control your processor speed there. Actually applies to all Macs, but especially with laptops where battery consumption is an issue.

    Anyway, I would set processor performance to highest, but only for the power supply settings, not the battery settings.
    Ed Zachary. Also, make sure you run out the battery completely once in a while.
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
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