Shadow not highlight correction. I learned it from Edgework.
My bad. Uninverted would be for midtones and highlights. And I suppose you could play with the black ink and total ink amounts to pour more black into the CMYK correction, and then have an uninverted mask deal just with the highlights. Like I said, very clever. And its the sort of thing Margulis typically avoids, with his general disdain for local corrections (although I suspect that this move might be an example. It reminds me of some of his "Blend if" moves).
My bad. Uninverted would be for midtones and highlights. And I suppose you could play with the black ink and total ink amounts to pour more black into the CMYK correction, and then have an uninverted mask deal just with the highlights. Like I said, very clever. And its the sort of thing Margulis typically avoids, with his general disdain for local corrections (although I suspect that this move might be an example. It reminds me of some of his "Blend if" moves).
Duffy
Dan isn't shy about using channels or inverted channels as selections or layer masks, believe me. The terminology is mine not his, but these are "natural selections" and I've seen him use them a lot and we'll see him write about them too. He also isn't above making crude selections in layer masks, for example to exclude the entire bottom of a shot for safety after using blend-if sliders to target the sky.
OK, Ginger, open the book and read it. Look, I just did the basics I've learned form Dan and taught here for a couple of years.
3. OK, so we ended up with a blue cast in the shadows. But that's really easy, as it turns out. Duplicate. Convert to CMYK. Now use the inverted K (black) channel as a layer mask for another set of curves and neutralize that hat. While we're at it, steepen the dark side of that L curve to bring out the shadow detail:
Here are the curves. Remember, the layer mask for this curve layer contained the inverted K channel from a duplicate converted to CMYK, so they only impact the very darkest parts of the image:
Hey Rutt,
Since we're in lab mode, and we're just trying to neutralize the shadows, a quick fix is to use Hue/Saturation/Lightness and pull the saturation slider to the left.
Always looking for the lazy way, so long as it works.
There are two ways to slide through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything; both save us from thinking.
—Korzybski
Rutt, I just have to say that so far I like none of those Fiddlers, not mine, not yours, none of them.
And on my "better" fiddler, the noise in the face drives me nuts and everyone likes it.
It is late, I had to do something on dgrin, checked things out, looked at this thread to see what Andy was "up" to, and kept seeing the darn fiddler.
You know what color is off: the background thing behind him. Drives me nuts!!! I wish I could find that guy again.
ginger (sorry, but this is not really a hijack, as it is a response.)
Maybe by the time "we" finish the book I might find a fiddler work up that I like.
Nik has Chapter 6 finished and is chomping at the bit to post it. Last I heard Edgework was real close with Chapter 5, but that was a week ago.
I don't think there really is any reason not to post these as they become ready instead of in order. Anybody disagree?
On another subject, Duffy, you have to pick a chapter to summarize. You're just too active and know too much and you'll be letting yourself down as well as the rest of us if you don't. How about the Chapter about ACR? I know you have an opinion.
Nik has Chapter 6 finished and is chomping at the bit to post it. Last I heard Edgework was real close with Chapter 5, but that was a week ago.
I don't think there really is any reason not to post these as they become ready instead of in order. Anybody disagree?
On another subject, Duffy, you have to pick a chapter to summarize. You're just too active and know too much and you'll be letting yourself down as well as the rest of us if you don't. How about the Chapter about ACR? I know you have an opinion.
I think Nik can simmer down and wait his turn. Just my opinion.
OK we've made some real progress and now we need some new volunteers for future chapters. Chapter 9 is great for someone who is sort of new to Dan's work. People have ofen oversimplified his approach and asked what to do when there is no known black, white, or even neutral point. Well, here's the answer (this time without the bridge hands of the previous edition.)
Chapter 10 is a tour de force and if someone doesn't take it soon, I will. It's a real blast to follow his steps with the images in this chapter.
11-14 are fun and we can have a flame fest.
The remaining chapters are another tour de force and we'll want to be careful to do them in order as they really build on one another. This material can separate a master from a journeyman. If you thought you knew how to get good flowers, well, we'll see.
OK we've made some real progress and now we need some new volunteers for future chapters. Chapter 9 is great for someone who is sort of new to Dan's work.
That would be me. I'll take this one if people can wait a bit, I'm going to be tied up for the next two weeks, so I should be able to get it done in about 4 weeks' time. If that's too long I might take a later one, but I have to read them first to make sure I understand them!
Constructive criticism always welcome!
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
I've been catching up on this thread, and while I won't even pretend to understand one tenth of what is being said I have a couple of questions. I'm going to start shooting in RAW soon, and I've never really thought much about this level of color manipulation. Would it be better for me to get this book, and learn this one thoroughly, or Dan's LAB book? I had heard such great things about the LAB book that I was pretty much set on that. And if I learn the LAB setup do I then need to learn this book as well?
I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get the best quality of the images I shoot. Thanks everyone!!
That would be me. I'll take this one if people can wait a bit, I'm going to be tied up for the next two weeks, so I should be able to get it done in about 4 weeks' time. If that's too long I might take a later one, but I have to read them first to make sure I understand them!
I just finished the chapter 8 summary. Let me tell you, I thought the hardest thing was finding images to illustrate some of the points Dan made. For one of them the only image I could find was an unflattering picture of my wife.
The LAB book is the best for beginners. That was a very controversial opinion a year and a half ago, but not today. Dan didn't think so when he wrote that book; he thought it was super advanced. Andy and the other dgrin people didn't think so, and in fact we had sort of a fight about it. But just look at the number of dgrinners who are good at LAB corrections but are struggling with this book!
BTW, I'm going to get subthread moved to the master thread soon.
I've been catching up on this thread, and while I won't even pretend to understand one tenth of what is being said I have a couple of questions. I'm going to start shooting in RAW soon, and I've never really thought much about this level of color manipulation. Would it be better for me to get this book, and learn this one thoroughly, or Dan's LAB book? I had heard such great things about the LAB book that I was pretty much set on that. And if I learn the LAB setup do I then need to learn this book as well?
I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get the best quality of the images I shoot. Thanks everyone!!
I just finished the chapter 8 summary. Let me tell you, I thought the hardest thing was finding images to illustrate some of the points Dan made. For one of them the only image I could find was an unflattering picture of my wife.
Haha, right, I was thinking that this would be difficult. If I do the chapter I'll revise it and see if I can come up with some representative images. If not, I guess a lot of the more advanced guys here use the techniques from Chapter 9, it might be interesting to use one of theirs if they'll let me and see how my conclusions differ from theirs.
Looking forward to the summary!
Constructive criticism always welcome!
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
I'm thinking we should skip chapters 11-14 for now and pick up with 15. The information in 11-14 is entertaining enough, but specialized and also not particularly rich in actual photoshop techniques for photographers.
Of course if anyone wants to take one of these chapters, that would be great. Any one of them can provoke an impressive flamefest.
So, chapter 15 teaches a good trick that can save over/under exposed images easily. Anyone want it?
I'm thinking we should skip chapters 11-14 for now and pick up with 15. The information in 11-14 is entertaining enough, but specialized and also not particularly rich in actual photoshop techniques for photographers.
Of course if anyone wants to take one of these chapters, that would be great. Any one of them can provoke an impressive flamefest.
So, chapter 15 teaches a good trick that can save over/under exposed images easily. Anyone want it?
I think that is a good idea. I have been avoiding the 11-14 chapters myself for now. That's the area I'm worst at so that may have something to do with it. I'd consider taking 15 if I didn't find it the most frustrating chapter in the entire book.
...but i think it's a good example for this technique.
Wow! What an impressive transformation. I'd be grateful for details of how you proceeded.
Dan Dill
"It is a magical time. I am reluctant to leave. Yet the shooting becomes more difficult, the path back grows black as it is without this last light. I don't do it anymore unless my husband is with me, as I am still afraid of the dark, smile.
This was truly last light, my legs were tired, my husband could no longer read and was anxious to leave, but the magic and I, we lingered........" Ginger Jones
What do I gain from reading Professional Photoshop - 4th Edition
Hi All,
I'm new to this forum; found out about it recently through a friend. I must say that this forum is a jewel among the many on photograhy and photoshop. How nice if I could have come to it much earlier, can't image the amount of time and effort I could have saved on my photography journey if I had known about this forum earlier.
I started my photography journey when my precious girl came into my live, since then I have been working toward making photogrpahy and photo-editing my life-long passion. To bring myself up to speed on photography and photo-editing, other than experimenting with my DSLR and Photoshop CS2, I read extensively on photography as much as time and energy permit. For Photoshop, I started with Scott Kelby's "The Photoshop CS2 Book for Digital Photographers" and moved on to books by Katrin Eismann and Tim Grey. I thought it is time for me to take the utimate challenge by reading Dan Mangulis' "Professional Photoshop (5th edition)".
When I skimmed through the "Introduction" section of Dan's book at a local bookstore, it mentions that the book has "90 percent new content" as compared to its previous edition. So, I am wondering, does reading the 4th edition help me in understanding the 5th edtion better? Or should I plunge straight into the 5th edtion?
I would just start on the fifth edition. It doesn't assume familiarity with any of the prior editions. In some ways, Margulis' approach is simpler than Kelby or Eisman. For the most part, he only uses somewhere between 5-10 commands in PS. It's what he does with that limited toolset that is mind boggling.
I volunteered for #10 but I've been flat out recently. I'll re-read the chapter again this weekend and make sure I'm still confident I can do it. It's been some time since I even opened PS.
Constructive criticism always welcome!
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
I struggled for a long time with understanding curves. Not the lines and curves, but really how RGB worked. How to manipulate it. For me, when I read the LAB book, a light went on, and suddenly I understood.
I don't think I'll ever make it through PP5E. Ever. That book frustrates me to no end. Far too much work for the return on investment. If you're a darkroom rat, like rutt, well, then, enjoy. But for me....NO. That book actually pisssed me off. I'm done with it.
This is too bad, David. There is lots of great stuff in PP5E, but the on ramp's not so great. In particular, there is so much good stuff about sharpening and out of gamut colors. We need to get that train back on track.
I struggled for a long time with understanding curves. Not the lines and curves, but really how RGB worked. How to manipulate it. For me, when I read the LAB book, a light went on, and suddenly I understood.
I don't think I'll ever make it through PP5E. Ever. That book frustrates me to no end. Far too much work for the return on investment. If you're a darkroom rat, like rutt, well, then, enjoy. But for me....NO. That book actually pisssed me off. I'm done with it.
This is too bad, David. There is lots of great stuff in PP5E, but the on ramp's not so great. In particular, there is so much good stuff about sharpening and out of gamut colors. We need to get that train back on track.
I struggled for a long time with understanding curves. Not the lines and curves, but really how RGB worked. How to manipulate it. For me, when I read the LAB book, a light went on, and suddenly I understood.
I don't think I'll ever make it through PP5E. Ever. That book frustrates me to no end. Far too much work for the return on investment. If you're a darkroom rat, like rutt, well, then, enjoy. But for me....NO. That book actually pisssed me off. I'm done with it.
I tend to agree with most of what you say David. The LAB book is just soooo much easier to get good, core usable stuff from. From that book, I learned the basics of LAB color adjustments, separating color from contrast, 10 channels to an image, making masks from channels, using blend-if settings to isolate a change to certain color ranges without masking, etc...
I actually believe there's some good stuff in the PP5E book, but it's way harder to get at those jewels and I find myself dreading the work required to try to get something out of it. And, some of what he preaches in PP5E, I just don't agree with. Separating color from contrast (learned in the LAB book) just makes intuitive sense to me, is easy to use and works way, way better for me than separate R, G and B or separate C, M, Y and K curves. I just can't make the separate curves work for me without constantly fighting color changes that I don't want. I think this is a really, really advanced concept that requires you to implicitly know how to move all three curves so that you get what you are looking for without undesirable color changes and that's way beyond me.
Unlike you David, I haven't given up on the book yet (though I've taken a hiatus for the last few months). It sounds like there's some interesting stuff to learn about false gammas and I'm starting to see some useful things to do with the black channel.
Note to Rutt: One idea to kick start things in the reading group, would be for someone to put together a summary of the top 5 things that can be quickly learned and applied from the PP5E book and perhaps that would get some people reinvigorated and get the conversation going again. That's what was so great about the LAB book - you got a high return early on with things that are simple to learn and easily usable by many. I haven't found those things in PP5E yet.
Comments
My bad. Uninverted would be for midtones and highlights. And I suppose you could play with the black ink and total ink amounts to pour more black into the CMYK correction, and then have an uninverted mask deal just with the highlights. Like I said, very clever. And its the sort of thing Margulis typically avoids, with his general disdain for local corrections (although I suspect that this move might be an example. It reminds me of some of his "Blend if" moves).
Duffy
Dan isn't shy about using channels or inverted channels as selections or layer masks, believe me. The terminology is mine not his, but these are "natural selections" and I've seen him use them a lot and we'll see him write about them too. He also isn't above making crude selections in layer masks, for example to exclude the entire bottom of a shot for safety after using blend-if sliders to target the sky.
Hey Rutt,
Since we're in lab mode, and we're just trying to neutralize the shadows, a quick fix is to use Hue/Saturation/Lightness and pull the saturation slider to the left.
Always looking for the lazy way, so long as it works.
—Korzybski
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And on my "better" fiddler, the noise in the face drives me nuts and everyone likes it.
It is late, I had to do something on dgrin, checked things out, looked at this thread to see what Andy was "up" to, and kept seeing the darn fiddler.
You know what color is off: the background thing behind him. Drives me nuts!!! I wish I could find that guy again.
ginger (sorry, but this is not really a hijack, as it is a response.)
Maybe by the time "we" finish the book I might find a fiddler work up that I like.
I don't think there really is any reason not to post these as they become ready instead of in order. Anybody disagree?
On another subject, Duffy, you have to pick a chapter to summarize. You're just too active and know too much and you'll be letting yourself down as well as the rest of us if you don't. How about the Chapter about ACR? I know you have an opinion.
I think Nik can simmer down and wait his turn. Just my opinion.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Heck, I've read the whole book. Not real carefully, though. I'm going to circle back and reread everything more carefully, like I did the LAB book.
(And I volunteered to do the summary for Chapter 8. I think there's a couple more chapters before I'm up.)
Chapter 10 is a tour de force and if someone doesn't take it soon, I will. It's a real blast to follow his steps with the images in this chapter.
11-14 are fun and we can have a flame fest.
The remaining chapters are another tour de force and we'll want to be careful to do them in order as they really build on one another. This material can separate a master from a journeyman. If you thought you knew how to get good flowers, well, we'll see.
So speak up, please.
That would be me. I'll take this one if people can wait a bit, I'm going to be tied up for the next two weeks, so I should be able to get it done in about 4 weeks' time. If that's too long I might take a later one, but I have to read them first to make sure I understand them!
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get the best quality of the images I shoot. Thanks everyone!!
I just finished the chapter 8 summary. Let me tell you, I thought the hardest thing was finding images to illustrate some of the points Dan made. For one of them the only image I could find was an unflattering picture of my wife.
BTW, I'm going to get subthread moved to the master thread soon.
Haha, right, I was thinking that this would be difficult. If I do the chapter I'll revise it and see if I can come up with some representative images. If not, I guess a lot of the more advanced guys here use the techniques from Chapter 9, it might be interesting to use one of theirs if they'll let me and see how my conclusions differ from theirs.
Looking forward to the summary!
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
Of course if anyone wants to take one of these chapters, that would be great. Any one of them can provoke an impressive flamefest.
So, chapter 15 teaches a good trick that can save over/under exposed images easily. Anyone want it?
I think that is a good idea. I have been avoiding the 11-14 chapters myself for now. That's the area I'm worst at so that may have something to do with it. I'd consider taking 15 if I didn't find it the most frustrating chapter in the entire book.
Joining Peachpit, discount for Prof PS 5 was 30%, net $41.99, but strangely their fulfillment outfit charged me sales tax.
http://skip-dechert.smugmug.com
i'm a little shy. but i've been practising the false profiling tricks of chapter 15 with this absolutely terrible original.
this is a very old photo taken with a digicam so it's particularly nasty . here's the edited version:
i need to do it again, cos i'm not happy with it, but i think it's a good example for this technique.
so, i have something to work with and am offering to do it. even tho' it scares me to death.
"It is a magical time. I am reluctant to leave. Yet the shooting becomes more difficult, the path back grows black as it is without this last light. I don't do it anymore unless my husband is with me, as I am still afraid of the dark, smile.
This was truly last light, my legs were tired, my husband could no longer read and was anxious to leave, but the magic and I, we lingered........"
Ginger Jones
Hi All,
I'm new to this forum; found out about it recently through a friend. I must say that this forum is a jewel among the many on photograhy and photoshop. How nice if I could have come to it much earlier, can't image the amount of time and effort I could have saved on my photography journey if I had known about this forum earlier.
I started my photography journey when my precious girl came into my live, since then I have been working toward making photogrpahy and photo-editing my life-long passion. To bring myself up to speed on photography and photo-editing, other than experimenting with my DSLR and Photoshop CS2, I read extensively on photography as much as time and energy permit. For Photoshop, I started with Scott Kelby's "The Photoshop CS2 Book for Digital Photographers" and moved on to books by Katrin Eismann and Tim Grey. I thought it is time for me to take the utimate challenge by reading Dan Mangulis' "Professional Photoshop (5th edition)".
When I skimmed through the "Introduction" section of Dan's book at a local bookstore, it mentions that the book has "90 percent new content" as compared to its previous edition. So, I am wondering, does reading the 4th edition help me in understanding the 5th edtion better? Or should I plunge straight into the 5th edtion?
Thanks.
Duffy
I would describe Margulis as someone who applies left brain techniques to produce right brain images.
And that just perfectly suits me. I'm learning so much it the best money I've spent in a long time.
Regards,
Peter
Glad you found us!
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
This is too bad, David. There is lots of great stuff in PP5E, but the on ramp's not so great. In particular, there is so much good stuff about sharpening and out of gamut colors. We need to get that train back on track.
This is too bad, David. There is lots of great stuff in PP5E, but the on ramp's not so great. In particular, there is so much good stuff about sharpening and out of gamut colors. We need to get that train back on track.
I tend to agree with most of what you say David. The LAB book is just soooo much easier to get good, core usable stuff from. From that book, I learned the basics of LAB color adjustments, separating color from contrast, 10 channels to an image, making masks from channels, using blend-if settings to isolate a change to certain color ranges without masking, etc...
I actually believe there's some good stuff in the PP5E book, but it's way harder to get at those jewels and I find myself dreading the work required to try to get something out of it. And, some of what he preaches in PP5E, I just don't agree with. Separating color from contrast (learned in the LAB book) just makes intuitive sense to me, is easy to use and works way, way better for me than separate R, G and B or separate C, M, Y and K curves. I just can't make the separate curves work for me without constantly fighting color changes that I don't want. I think this is a really, really advanced concept that requires you to implicitly know how to move all three curves so that you get what you are looking for without undesirable color changes and that's way beyond me.
Unlike you David, I haven't given up on the book yet (though I've taken a hiatus for the last few months). It sounds like there's some interesting stuff to learn about false gammas and I'm starting to see some useful things to do with the black channel.
Note to Rutt: One idea to kick start things in the reading group, would be for someone to put together a summary of the top 5 things that can be quickly learned and applied from the PP5E book and perhaps that would get some people reinvigorated and get the conversation going again. That's what was so great about the LAB book - you got a high return early on with things that are simple to learn and easily usable by many. I haven't found those things in PP5E yet.
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