Margulis "Professional Photoshop, Fifth Edition"

ruttrutt Cave canem!Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
edited March 5, 2010 in Finishing School
I have my copy of this, direct from Dan Margulis and complete with inscription. I've read it once as a beta-reader and am ready for a second reading. In the meantime I've attended Dan's advanced class for a second time. I've also taken a new job, sadly one that has nothing to do with photography.

So let's read this monster together, just as we read Photoshop LAB Color together. Lots of people have asked me to lead this group, including Dan himself. I'm willing to try. My new job will prevent me from being as active this time around as I was last time, so I'll need some more help from my friends. I won't be shy about asking for this help, so if you participate be prepared to help out in ways you might not have expected. For starters, I'm sure I won't be able to write as many chapter summaries as I did for the LAB book.

Here is a list of chapter titles. As the summaries are written and posted to start threads, I'll link the chapters to those threads.

Please let me know if you want to write a summary (and lead the resulting discussion.) I will be available for consultation when you prepare summaries (ask the people who did this for the LAB book), but things will be a little different this time around. More people on dgrin know and understand Dan's work now than a year ago, so you may get referred. People who are willing to fill the role of summary editors and consultants should let me know. I'll edit this list as I get volunteers for chapter summary writers and also consultants.
  1. Color, Contrast, and Channels. By Rutt.
  2. The Steeper the Curve, the More the Contrast. By Andy.
  3. Color by the Numbers By DavidTO.
  4. Color, Contrast, Canyons, and LAB
    By gefillmore
  5. The Key is K By Edgework.
  6. Sharpening with a Stiletto
    By Nikolai
  7. Keeping the Color in Black and White by Pathfinder
    This is about B&W conversions. People who are interested in making better B&Ws should be all over this.
  8. Keeping the Black and White in Color by MWGrice
    The technique of this chapter separates the grownups from the children in image enhancement.
  9. Inferences, Illusions, and When to Bet the Image
  10. Every File has Ten Channels
  11. Making Things Look Alike
  12. Managing Color Settings
  13. Politics, Printing, and the Science of the Skosh
    Think you are a real pro? Ever sleep in the press room to make sure the run of your book came out the way you think it should? This chapter is for people who want to make real books on real presses for real money.
  14. Resolution for the Multimegapixel Era
  15. The Art of the False Profile
  16. What Comes Around, Goes Around
    Summary promised: Duffy Pratt
  17. Blurs, Masks, and Safety in Sharpening
  18. Overlays, Hiraloam, and Shadow/Highlight by JBong
  19. Color, Contrast, and Safety in Masking
  20. There are no Bad Originals

Some of these chapter titles are not very informative. Once you have your books, you'll be able to find out more which will probably help you decide which ones you are most interested in. If you have particular topics, ask, and I'll try to answer whch chapters are most relevant.

Some guidelines for people writing summaries:
  1. You MAY NOT USE IMAGES FROM THE BOOK, in particular from the CD that comes with it. I know of a very few exceptions to this and if they are relevant to you, I will let you know. But in general, it's really better to use your own images. This is a great chance to show them off and use them as learning examples. Why would you miss out on that?
  2. About quoting from the book, Dan wrote me this a few years ago and I've used it as a guideline ever since:
    Short of directly quoting more than four or five paragraphs from the book (which the publisher would have to authorize, and probably wouldn't), or using one of the pictures from the book's CD, you're pretty well free to do what you want.
    Again, though, try to use your own words as much as possible instead of Dan's. Our goal is to help learn the ideas, not just to reproduce Dan's words. In fact, be critical. See if you can find better approaches than the ones Dan offers. Explain the things that don't work as well as the things that do work.
  3. Hosting your images Smugmug has graciously contributed a pro account colortheory.smugmug.com to this (and other Margulis related) efforts. Contact me and I'll give you a password so you can upload images. Use this account, please, so that the images and their links will outlast any particular account you may have. In theory you can also send your images to this account via email. See this help page. The nickname is colortheory and the password is bythenumbers
If not now, when?
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Comments

  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkRegistered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited November 27, 2006
    Here is where we will put deals/info on how to get the book.
    rutt wrote:
    Buy direct from the publisher, Peachpit Press. It shows 24 hour shipping.

    You can get either the actual book or a PDF version. I beta read the PDF and now have the book. I'd strongly recommend forking out the extra $10 for the book. Dan actually lived in the press room during the run and it shows.
    Andy wrote:
    Good deal. And if you join (free) Peachpit, you get 20% off, so the book is only $47.99.
    kwalsh wrote:
    There is a new Barnes & Noble code for 25% off until 12/10: B3U6E4V

    Their starting price (for non-members) is $48, take off 25% and you're at $36!

    Much cheaper than amazon.

    Ken
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Crazy Creek Babe Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    Barnes and Noble e-mailed me yesterday that they are shipping my book on Dec 6 (next Monday). For what I paid, I am happy/thrilled!

    ginger (note, I have not offered to do a chapter, I am just hoping I can follow along, do the language, etc. I can do the title page if you all need that, smile!)

    Update: It is packed and ready to ship, just got that notice, so maybe it is going out sooner than previously said.
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    ginger_55 wrote:

    ginger (note, I have not offered to do a chapter, I am just hoping I can follow along, do the language, etc. I can do the title page if you all need that, smile!)

    OK, you have an assignment: summarize the cover.
    If not now, when?
  • edgeworkedgework Major grins Registered Users Posts: 257 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    I'll put my order in today. Let me know what you need.
    There are two ways to slide through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything; both save us from thinking.
    —Korzybski
  • DavidTODavidTO Mod Emeritus Thousand Oaks, CARegistered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    edgework wrote:
    I'll put my order in today. Let me know what you need.


    Part III? mwink.gif
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    Ordered from PeachPit!
    I checked my long-time standing order with Amazon.. They not gonna ship it until mid-December. So I canceled that order and reordered from the publisher - cheaper, too :-) wings.gif

    John, I definitely wanna help and play in every way possible. Once I get the book I'll probably be able to make my own choice, but if you think you can place me in advance - please let me know (you know how to reach me:-) deal.gif

    Cheers! 1drink.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • aporiaaporia Major grins Registered Users Posts: 145 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    I'm still reeling from the last edition but I'll give one of the earlier chapters a go. My book is on order with B&N.
    Tom in Niagara (CAN/US)
    Real Body Integrated Arts
    GMT -5
  • TrentTrent Brisbane Property Photos Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    Should I get this book?
    Hi, I'm trying to decide whether to buy this book or not. I eventually want to buy this book, but can't decide whether or not to get it as an "intro" book. I'm only a beginner/intermediate at photoshop, but I don't mind starting on an advanced book. I'm just conerned that this book (just being on colour correction) will miss a lot of other important areas that I will need as a photographer.

    I have been comparing it to Scott Kelby's "The Photoshop CS2 Book for Digital Photographers". This book has had a lot of good reviews, so therefore should fulfil my need for a comprehensive look at photoshop for photographers. One concern about this book is Scotts approach of "cuts through the bull and shows you exactly "how to do it." It's not a bunch of theory". I don't like this style, and would much rather the theory so I can think for myself.

    So I guess my question is, if I get Dans book will I miss out on too much other stuff in Scotts book? or does Dans book cover a lot of Scotts book material, therefore wasting my money getting both?

    Cheers,
    Trent.
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Crazy Creek Babe Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    Trent, IMO, you need a library of CS2 books. Kelby is an essential, iMO. I have about five different books minimum on CS2. Came with the territory of having PSCS2.

    I have found Dan Marguilis books entertaining, but difficult. I have his others. I have even used them. And I use LAB more now. Unless you are terribly broke, IMO, it would be good to get Kelby for the easier stuff and get Dan's book to follow along with this group. It seems that people who learn LAB, etc early on do better with it.

    Just my so humble opinion. (I didn't get all my books at once, it has been a slow buildup)

    I use Kelby, but I make my own choices as to what to use in Kelby. I like recipes, he gives them to me. I understand more as I use things. I don't read Kelby, I use him.

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • DavidTODavidTO Mod Emeritus Thousand Oaks, CARegistered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    If you know your way around PS, as in you understand how the mechanics of layers and tools, even if you're not sure what they all do...then I say jump into Margulis. You'll be learning things right the first time out, and much better off for it, IMO.

    Think of books like Kelby's as quickstarts, not the information that will last you a lifetime, as Margulis' will. Things like knowing what the 10 channels will look like: being able to envision them is really hard, but once you get it down (and I'm still working on it), it will make you better faster than any other technique. Basic knowledge and how to use it. It'll be a slower start for you, though, I would think. But a better foundation.
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,195 moderator
    edited November 30, 2006
    wow- peachpit's not bad-my book is here-total invoice was 42.69-

    I have to agree with davidto-

    I love kelby's stuff, but if you really want to do something right, you not only need the how, you need the why-
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2006
    edgework wrote:
    I'll put my order in today. Let me know what you need.

    How about Ch. 5, The Key is the K. I think you might actually know as much about this as anyone.
    If not now, when?
  • TrentTrent Brisbane Property Photos Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    ginger_55 wrote:
    Unless you are terribly broke, IMO, it would be good to get Kelby for the easier stuff and get Dan's book to follow along with this group.

    I'm traveling, so two books are two too many :). If I could I would take my whole book collection with me. I know I can buy these books in pdf, but eventually I want the hard cover, and I don't want to pay twice for the one book. You may have convinced me to get dans book.
  • gusgus Major grins Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    DavidTO wrote:
    If you know your way around PS, as in you understand how the mechanics of layers and tools, even if you're not sure what they all do...then I say jump into Margulis. You'll be learning things right the first time out, and much better off for it, IMO.

    Think of books like Kelby's as quickstarts, not the information that will last you a lifetime, as Margulis' will. Things like knowing what the 10 channels will look like: being able to envision them is really hard, but once you get it down (and I'm still working on it), it will make you better faster than any other technique. Basic knowledge and how to use it. It'll be a slower start for you, though, I would think. But a better foundation.

    Its perception really...one can sit & study & perfect something to a degree so far removed from the average user only to discover at a later date that they have missed the entire point of photography.

    My 2 bobs worth.
  • TrentTrent Brisbane Property Photos Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    Thanks for the advice David, I think I will buy this book. I have browsed a few photoshop books and haven't liked reading something which the PS help menues could have told me. I want to read a book where I can actually learn something, and not just memorize a formula.

    Trent.
  • TrentTrent Brisbane Property Photos Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    gus wrote:
    Its perception really...one can sit & study & perfect something to a degree so far removed from the average user only to discover at a later date that they have missed the entire point of photography.

    My 2 bobs worth.

    Gus, I'm not too sure what your point is. Is it your peception that Dans approach to photography is overly complicated, and that he has missed the point?

    Trent.
  • gusgus Major grins Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    Trent wrote:
    Gus, I'm not too sure what your point is. Is it your peception that Dans approach to photography is overly complicated, and that he has missed the point?

    Trent.

    Im not saying dans approach is right or wrong but i do always like to point out to the average punter here in D/grin that its very easy to over complicate digital photography.
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    Trent,
    I hope you are already really comfortable with PS, 'cause Dan's books are anything but "PS 101".

    It took me personally about 16 months and 4-5 simpler books (Kelby and such) to be able to comprehend about 50% of his Professional Photoshop 4th edition. Call me stupid, but that was my experience. I actually tried it earlier... I got lost on 2d or 3d chapter...

    HTH
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • DavidTODavidTO Mod Emeritus Thousand Oaks, CARegistered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    Gus and Nik have good points. It's hard to say how you think, and how much you already know about PS and photography. But Dan's books can be very difficult for the newcomer, and just difficult for everyone else. Kelby will most likely be more immediately satisfying.

    And yes, you can overthink PS, that's for sure.

    Choose your poison.
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
  • TrentTrent Brisbane Property Photos Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    Hey thanks for the quick replys. Like I said earlier, the fact that it is advanced does not worry me. I come from an engineering background, so I usually apprieciate the nuts and bolts explaination of things. It usually stops me from asking too many questions :). My approach to photography is to replicate what my minds eye sees; Dans approach seems to satisfy that goal, where Scotts book just provides the formulas to make most people happy, with no reason behind it (e.g. lets just make your pictures look good). My concern was that Scotts book covers other important ground that this one doesn't.

    Trent.
  • RichardRichard Mildly bemused Madrid, SpainAdministrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,209 moderator
    edited December 1, 2006
    I ordered today from Amazon, but delivery to Spain is likely to take several weeks. I will probably be able to lend a hand with a summary but I think I had better wait to see whether I understand any of it first. headscratch.gif His LAB book took me quite a while to figure out, though it was certainly more than worth the effort. Anyway, I'll check back in January to see whether there's something I can contribute.

    Regards,
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    I have added some guidelines for summary writers to the first post. Really they apply to everyone who contributes to this reading group. Please take a look if you plan to post. Thanks.
    If not now, when?
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaSuper Moderators Posts: 14,542 moderator
    edited December 1, 2006
    I am willing to review chapter 5 or 6, which ever is needed.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    John,
    I'll take #6: Sharpening with a Stiletto if it's available
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • StanStan Major grins Registered Users Posts: 1,077 Major grins
    edited December 1, 2006
    rsinmadrid wrote:
    I ordered today from Amazon, but delivery to Spain is likely to take several weeks. I will probably be able to lend a hand with a summary but I think I had better wait to see whether I understand any of it first. headscratch.gif His LAB book took me quite a while to figure out, though it was certainly more than worth the effort. Anyway, I'll check back in January to see whether there's something I can contribute.

    Regards,

    Amazon US dispatched mine today, estimated delivery 5th-11th Dec. with UPS. It should not take too long to Portugal unless they are getting delayed with the christmas rush.

    Since it is not published in Europe yet it is still probably quicker to order from the US and cheaper with the favourable dollar rate

    Stan
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited December 2, 2006
    Edited first post to reflect additional chapter assignments.
    If not now, when?
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited December 2, 2006
    Nikolai wrote:
    I'll take #6: Sharpening with a Stiletto if it's available

    Done.
    If not now, when?
  • ruttrutt Cave canem! Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited December 2, 2006
    pathfinder wrote:
    I am willing to review chapter 5 or 6, which ever is needed.

    Both taken at this point. How about 7?
    If not now, when?
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaSuper Moderators Posts: 14,542 moderator
    edited December 2, 2006
    Fine - 7 it is!thumb.gif
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • AZsnapperAZsnapper Big grins Registered Users Posts: 99 Big grins
    edited December 2, 2006
    Book
    Ordered mine today. God, I love Photoshop. Been using is since, live, v5, but I feel like a beginner again now that I'm using it for photo post processing instead of just web graphics!

    pathfinder wrote:
    Fine - 7 it is!thumb.gif
    Visit my web site
    www.shadowlakes.com
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