My first week as a studio photographer

redhawk · December 15, 2006

Disclaimer: Please review the thread title when you read something that makes you wince.:twitch

I picked up my first DSLR last summer to supplement my web design business. I used a film SLR for several years back in the 80s, but had gotten away from it and then abandoned it altogether once we got our first point-and-shoot. I've thoroughly enjoyed the Rebel since I picked it up.

My wife runs a dance studio and I offered to do her pictures provided she let me buy some gear. I took the advice of the local camera shop guy and picked up an RPS Studio strobe set, which consisted of two 300ws monoblocs, light stands, a reflective umbrella, and a shoot-through umbrella. Instead of a colored backdrop, I used seamless paper on a frame. I used my onboard flash to trigger the strobes. My lens was the standard 18-55mm EFS.

In preparation for shooting individual and groups of up to 14 dance students, I enlisted some guinea pigs so I could have some experience with the lights. (I had done a good deal of reading, but had no experience.) On Sunday I shot a family of three, then a family of nine. I took over 100 shots with different family member combinations.

I found the 300s did not provide adequate light when shooting at 400 ISO (at least for someone with almost no experience). I had in my head that I needed to shoot at f/11 for portraits, but had to abandon that and found myself at 1/50 and f/5.6 for individuals (A-DEP for groups). For the larger family, I shot at 800 and 1600 ISO. Almost all of the shots required an exposure increase in Lightroom, which introduced more grain.

A friend let me borrow his 500W hot lights. With these added to the mix I had a lot more freedom and shot at 400 ISO.

My first individual and group shots were on Tuesday. I also had shoots on Wednesday and tonight.

Tuesday night's shots weren't great, but I was able to make them more acceptable in Lightroom by changing exposure and white balance. Last night I made some noticeable improvements, and tonight's shots were almost acceptable.

As you may have guessed, I've learned a ton about light positioning. I had very little time to make adjustments during the past three nights, but I showed up early enough beforehand to do some model-less work and that helped. I look forward to doing some less-hectic shoots that allow me to make more adjustments.

Other lessons learned:

hot lights are hot (and subjects don't appear to like them)
hot lights can prevent your strobes from being triggered by your onboard flash
if left unchecked, a speedy toddler may do a drive-by light stand kick that detaches a dish, causing said dish to drop onto the bulb and put it out
again, hot lights are hot (I had to use a number of napkins to remove the spent bulb)
prepare as much as possible beforehand
you have to start somewhere, and that somewhere may be "bad"
confidence builds with experience
most of all - studio photography is not easy

Stuff I did right:

visited these forums (thanks so much to everyone here)
did a lot of other reading (including Christopher Grey's Master Lighting Guide)
let my wife pose the kids while I made adjustments
used a sturdy tripod and ballhead
kept my camera at subject eye level
pored over my photos each night

I still have a ton to learn, but I think as I gain experience and participate here I can make a go of this.

If you're still reading, I'd like some input on next steps (as far as gear is concerned).

The hot lights are borrowed, so my studio setup consists of the two 300ws RPS strobes. I'd like to supplement them. At this point I'm considering the following:

580 EX Speedlite
AlienBees B1600
48-inch brolly box (AlienBees)

I'd use the 580 as an off-camera (or pivoted) master. (It would also be used in non-studio settings.) The B1600 would give me a lot of light for taking those large groups shots, and then the 300s I currently have could be used as fill or accent lighting.

Am I overlooking anything, or does this sound like a good investment at this point?

Thank you for your time.

Shima · December 15, 2006

Hey referral buddy

Looks like you had quite the lighting learning adventure... please post some samples on here when you get a chance. I don't have any experience with studio lighting unfortunately.

claudermilk · December 15, 2006

if left unchecked, a speedy toddler may do a drive-by light stand kick that detaches a dish, causing said dish to drop onto the bulb and put it out

:lol4

Sounds like you had an adventure.

I wonder, how far away did you have the lights? A pair of 300ws should be plenty for small groups--the lights only need to be out of the frame, otherwise put them as close as possible. Remember, double the distance, 1/4 the light strength. I currently use a pair of borrowed Calumet 750s & the main light is usually at 1/4 strength--they are too powerful.

Also--while you don't want to run that lens wide-open for best results--with portraits, f11 is probably a little too closed down--you want the background OOF. The 50/1.8 would be a good investment here.

BTW, slightly OT. Did you do the shoot at the dance studio? How'd that work out? I'm moving into a bigger place in about a month & one room is slated to be a dance studio/photo studio (whee, tax write-offs! :ivar

). Still researching the specifics of building the floor.

JimW · December 15, 2006

I'm not familiar with the equipment in your question, so can't comment on that, but here's a few studio suggestions. Everyone has their own methods. These things have helped me.

You might consider renting a color light meter and taking color temperature readings of your lights, with and without any diffusion you might use. Then, if your camera allows, set the camera white balance to the closest Kelvin temp to your lighting setup. Doing this saved me postprocessing hassles. If you're just setting the camera's white balance to "flash" now, and your diffused lights are actually closer to 4500 K, this could help.

As you start positioning lights and turning them on, take test shots and keep an eye on the histogram, and watch how it changes when you add another light source.

If possible after you're all set up to shoot, take a few shots and put them into your computer and work with them in color managed PS for a few minutes. Then you'll know better where the problems are. I can't always see those areas in the camera's lcd.

Good luck,

Jim

redhawk · December 15, 2006

claudermilk wrote:

I wonder, how far away did you have the lights? A pair of 300ws should be plenty for small groups--the lights only need to be out of the frame, otherwise put them as close as possible.

The lights weren't close enough in most cases. The situation was too hectic and I was too slow to do proper positioning. I began to get a better feel for it over time, though.

claudermilk wrote:

Also--while you don't want to run that lens wide-open for best results--with portraits, f11 is probably a little too closed down--you want the background OOF. The 50/1.8 would be a good investment here.

That's the next lens I want to get.

claudermilk wrote:

Did you do the shoot at the dance studio? How'd that work out?

It was at the dance studio, and the shots were done in between mini recital numbers while the room was full of dancers and their families. It sounds like your situation will be different in that you'll be splitting time.

Small dancers typically mean smaller siblings waiting (and looking for stuff to get into) during lessons. Who will be watching your gear? I was there this week while my stuff was set up, but I'll take down the backdrop and lighting once it's back to regular lessons.

Thank you for your feedback, and thanks to Jim W as well for his comments.

ziggy53 · December 15, 2006

Redhawk,

I suspect your monolights were firing on the pre-flash of the on-board flash. I have to use an external flash in manual mode to properly sync my XT to my monolights.

Those monolights should have been plenty at full pop to give you f11, especially at ISO 1600.

You could try partially covering the slaves on the monolights to make them less sensitive, but you would be better using a small external hot shoe flash in manual mode as master/trigger.

ziggy53

redhawk · December 15, 2006

ziggy53 wrote:

Redhawk,

I suspect your monolights were firing on the pre-flash of the on-board flash. I have to use an external flash in manual mode to properly sync my XT to my monolights.

Those monolights should have been plenty at full pop to give you f11, especially at ISO 1600.

You could try partially covering the slaves on the monolights to make them less sensitive, but you would be better using a small external hot shoe flash in manual mode as master/trigger.

ziggy53

ziggy53,

Thank you so much for your input. I believe what you've suggested is exactly what happened. It's somewhat embarrassing to learn, but I'm incredibly grateful for the information.

I'm going to try covering the preflash until I'm able to acquire an external flash.

Thank you again.

claudermilk · December 18, 2006

Well, I *was* going to suggest just getting a PC cord, but it appears the Rebel does not have the proper connector for that. I guess one of the things I paid extra for with the 20D.

So plan B would be to take a look at some of those IR units on ebay--cheaper than a full-blown flash & should trigger the strobes.

I'd also look to see if there is a way to turn off the preflash.

Check prices on the 50mm--new is $70 & one of the best deals in photo gear to be found.

pathfinder · December 18, 2006

Triggering your studio strobe with a flash on the camera is appealing at first. Seems easy and inexpensive. Until you find yourself missing shots because your lights don't trigger when needed, or only trigger part of the time. BTDT

I suggest you look into a radio powered flash trigger like Pocket Wizards or others. You will quickly find that you won't want to shoot without them. Gus found some inexpensive ones on Ebay.

300ws strobes should let you shoot at f5.6 or f8 at 1/125th at ISO 200 or thereabouts depending on the distance between the flash and the subjects, and how much diffusion you use. I use a pair of FlashPoint 620s I purchased from Adorama and find them adequate for small groups.

I agree that adjusting the white balance of your camera to the light you are shooting with will save you unimagineable time in post processing. Shoot a frame at the beginning of the session and use it to adjust your white balance to a custom white balance setting. You will find this is the cat's meow! This is one of the secrets of digital that is still not fully appreciated by most shooters. It really pays dividends.

claudermilk · December 19, 2006

pathfinder wrote:

I agree that adjusting the white balance of your camera to the light you are shooting with will save you unimagineable time in post processing. Shoot a frame at the beginning of the session and use it to adjust your white balance to a custom white balance setting. You will find this is the cat's meow! This is one of the secrets of digital that is still not fully appreciated by most shooters. It really pays dividends.

That is a huge timesaver in PP. I ALWAYS shoot a WhiBal frame at the beginning of a session and set my camera to custom WB. Done. It's so nice to know a) WB is perfect for every shot and b) you won't have to touch it on the computer. It makes whatever you spend for your target card well worth it.

redhawk · December 19, 2006

It turns out the preflash wasn't firing the strobes. I now write it off to poor light positioning. I was part of another shoot on Sunday night and things looked a lot better.

I ordered the 580EX and the overpriced Canon transmitter. I'll be glad to use the Speedlite with its many options rather than the onboard flash.

You folks have convinced me to do a custom white balance before each shoot. Actually, it was all the post-production work that convinced me, but I still appreciate the advice.

Thank you again for your help.

SloYerRoll · December 19, 2006

claudermilk wrote:

Well, I *was* going to suggest just getting a PC cord, but it appears the Rebel does not have the proper connector for that. I guess one of the things I paid extra for with the 20D.

You can get hotshoe to PC adapters here since most lower end DSLR's don't have the PC connection.

claudermilk wrote:

So plan B would be to take a look at some of those IR units on ebay--cheaper than a full-blown flash & should trigger the strobes.

Since it seems your shooting Canon. Be careful w/ these generic radio/ir flash trigger remotes. There are infamous for misfiring on Canon flashes.
Here is the thread that presents some of the known issues and at least gets you started on the right path to correcting this.

Since you are at the point of really needing remote triggers. I HIGHLY recommend Pocket Wizards. They are well worth the money if you are at the stage I think you are in your photog career.

Good luck on future endeavors!

-Jon

SloYerRoll · December 19, 2006

redhawk wrote:

It turns out the preflash wasn't firing the strobes. I now write it off to poor light positioning. I was part of another shoot on Sunday night and things looked a lot better.

It might be tough using peanuts when you are in a pseudo studio situation though. I would think parents would be bringing their cameras and firing off your stobes when they take a snapshot of their kids. This would really get on my nerves if I couldn't take a shot cus my flash was cycling..
Just rambling at this point though.....

photobug · December 19, 2006

Forget triggering with on-camera flash -- go PC or wireless
Redhawk,

THANK YOU for posting your experiences! I'm just a couple of steps ahead of you, so this is all sooooo familiar. (you'll probably shoot more and pass me up quickly)

redhawk wrote:

I believe what you've suggested is exactly what happened. It's somewhat embarrassing to learn, but I'm incredibly grateful for the information.

I'm going to try covering the preflash until I'm able to acquire an external flash.

Let me offer a shocking suggestion

-- do not try to trigger your studio stobes with a flash at all. As in, don't bother paying nearly $400 for a 580EX (certainly not just for triggering studio strobes). Trigger (at least one of) your strobes with either:

a wired PC cord plugged into your camera (which won't work in your case because I don't think the Rebel has a PC socket), or
a wireless remote trigger. I bought some of these from seller "photogearOK" on eBay and they've worked great (but as I found out, they are not durable if dropped 3' onto a concrete sidewalk :cry) I'm sure that Pocket Wizards are ten times more durable, but they're also ten times most costly.

If you do that, then you don't have to worry about mis-fires.

Also, I learned the hard way that studio strobes will slave (trigger from seeing another flash) OK only when:

they're indoors (low ambient light)
the slaves are being shot into reflective umbrellas (so the slave sensor on the back end of the monolight is pointing toward the subject)
the master flash is fairly bright (an on-camera flash may or may not be bright enough)

If any of those 3 factors is missing, some or all of your slaves may fail to fire. (I found that out on an outdoor shoot at dusk -- had to wire them all via PC cords, before I got my wireless transmitters/receivers).

If you get the wireless setup, I advise you to get at least two transmitters -- one for your camera hot-shoe and one (a) to keep on you for manual firing (e.g. when metering your strobes) and (b) as a backup unit. I also recommend getting at least one more receiver than you plan on using, as a backup. (they aren't very expensive and when one breaks, you'll be soooo glad you have a spare, 'cause you can't run down to 7-11 to grab a replacement, y'know what I mean?)

JimW · December 19, 2006

<<< hotshoe to PC adapters >>>

May I respectfully suggest using radio slaves instead. I'm no expert on electricity, but I've been told that sometimes the energy built up in a power supply needs to get out, and if it is hardwired to your camera through the hotshoe, well, bad things can happen to your camera if a surge comes into the hotshoe. Maybe someone who knows for sure will chime in.

I use Pocket Wizards that have never failed yet, and I trust them more than I trust that little $15 hot shoe adapter, mainly because they're not hardwired to anything.

redhawk · December 19, 2006

JimW wrote:

I use Pocket Wizards that have never failed yet, and I trust them more than I trust that little $15 hot shoe adapter, mainly because they're not hardwired to anything.

The Pocket Wizards seem to have a great reputation. That's probably the route I'll take when I decide to modify my current setup.

I'm still hoping that using the 580 (since I already ordered it) will improve my experience significantly over using the Rebel's onboard flash.

photobug · December 19, 2006

SloYerRoll wrote:

Since it seems your shooting Canon. Be careful w/ these generic radio/ir flash trigger remotes. There are infamous for misfiring on Canon flashes.

Whoa, there -- Redhawk did not say that he was using it to trigger his Canon flash (new 580EX) -- he is using it to trigger remote studio strobes, with which no one has cited a problem. (I certainly haven't had any problems, other than dropping a receiver and having to pick up a bunch of pieces)

I did have intermittent firing when I used a Canon 420EX as a remote, mounted on a hotshoe adaptor, connected to the RF receiver. So beware of that combination. (maybe Gus's Faraday-cage fix addresses it)

Another note -- someone mentioned "IR remotes" a few postings ago in this thread. The remotes triggers I'm referring to are NOT infrared (IR) remotes -- they are RF (radio frequency) remotes, and there is a big difference. That's one of the reasons I don't use Canon's remote capability between my 580EX and my 420EX very often -- it's purely IR, which limits it to line-of-sight and doesn't work well in daylight situations. RF remotes don't require line-of-sight and couldn't care less about ambient light conditions.

I HIGHLY recommend Pocket Wizards. They are well worth the money

From everything I've heard, if Redhawk keeps shooting a lot with monolights, he and I will both end up eventually with the pro-grade Pocket Wizards. For now, the cheap radio remotes are doing the job for me, for occasional work with the monoligthts.

redhawk · December 19, 2006

photobug wrote:

Whoa, there -- Redhawk did not say that he was using it to trigger his Canon flash (new 580EX) -- he is using it to trigger remote studio strobes, with which no one has cited a problem.

I'm glad you clarified that - it is my intention to use the 580 to trigger the remote strobes.

photobug wrote:

That's one of the reasons I don't use Canon's remote capability between my 580EX and my 420EX very often -- it's purely IR, which limits it to line-of-sight and doesn't work well in daylight situations.

When B&H called to confirm my order (which included the 580EX), I asked whether the Impact LiteAid 1 Channel Hot Shoe Radio Slave Transmitter ($50) was the right thing to buy to trigger the Speedlite. As he explained the other components I would need to make that work, I asked about Canon's ST-E2 transmitter ($210 :oogle ) vs. using the 430EX ($230). I didn't like the thought of spending $210 for a transmitter when for $20 more I could have another flash. But when he mentioned the IR (which, as you mentioned, =line-of-sight issues) I bit the went ahead and got the ST-E2. Your mention of those limitations reassures me.

Thank you.

photobug · December 19, 2006

redhawk wrote:

I'm glad you clarified that - it is my intention to use the 580 to trigger the remote strobes.

That is exactly what I was recommending that you not rely on. Using a 580ex to trigger 420ex, 430ex, or 550ex is one thing -- despite the limitations of its infrared (IR) transmisssion, you get full auto (ETTL) control over the slave flashes. But when you're triggering studio strobes, all the auto features get thrown away and you're far better off using an RF (or PC cable) trigger -- for all the reasons previously cited.

When B&H called to confirm my order (which included the 580EX), I asked whether the Impact LiteAid 1 Channel Hot Shoe Radio Slave Transmitter ($50) was the right thing to buy to trigger the Speedlite. As he explained the other components I would need to make that work, I asked about Canon's ST-E2 transmitter ($210 :oogle ) vs. using the 430EX ($230). I didn't like the thought of spending $210 for a transmitter when for $20 more I could have another flash. But when he mentioned the IR (which, as you mentioned, =line-of-sight issues) I bit the went ahead and got the ST-E2. Your mention of those limitations reassures me.

Whew, I am totally confused here. The ST-E2 is still an Canon IR transmitter -- it's essentially a 580ex (actually, I think a 550ex) without a flash head on it. None of the Canon flash equipment uses a radio (RF) trigger; it's all IR.

Canon 430ex vs. ST-E2? That's completely apples and oranges. The 430ex doesn't transmit, so could never be a substitute for the ST-E2. And the ST-E2 doesn't have a flash head, so could never substitute for a 430ex. (only the 580ex does both)

And when you say, "trigger the Speedlite" ... I thought you were putting the 580ex on the camera and using it to trigger the studio strobes; isn't that what you meant by "it is my intention to use the 580 to trigger the remote strobes"? In which case, why do you need a LiteAid (or ST-E2) at all? If you're using the LiteAid as the trigger, then you lose all the auto features so why bother buying the 580ex, just use the LiteAid/etc to trigger the remote strobes directly.

If you're worried about losing the auto features of the Canon Speedlites when you use studio strobes -- here's the important advice I got from DGrin a few months ago: if you use studio strobes, forget automation; just set your camera on "M" (manual) and it's really just as easy as going a full-auto-flash route (and more predictable). I was skeptical at first, but our DGrin colleagues were right!

Given your need to trigger studio strobes (and not even your 430ex), I can't figure out why you'd want to drop ~$600 on a 580ex and an ST-E2. (I had considered that combination earlier, but that was before I got the monolights)

....Or is it the influence of the nearby Pacifc Ocean (or the current cold wave here) that is causing me to completely misunderstand what you're trying to do?

redhawk · December 19, 2006

photobug wrote:

That is exactly what I was recommending that you not rely on. Using a 580ex to trigger 420ex, 430ex, or 550ex is one thing -- despite the limitations of its infrared (IR) transmisssion, you get full auto (ETTL) control over the slave flashes. But when you're triggering studio strobes, all the auto features get thrown away and you're far better off using an RF (or PC cable) trigger -- for all the reasons previously cited.

It sounds like I misunderstood the salesman. I had thought the ST-E2 offered some advantage (RF) over the 430EX as a trigger for the 580EX (apart from size), but it sounds like I'll have to deal with the line-of-sight issue after all. Sorry for my confusion.

My plans for the 580EX in the studio environment (I do have other plans for it as well, so all is not lost if it doesn't work out) involve mounting it on a lamp stand and using it as a fill light. It should be positioned close enough to my camera to work okay, but I understand how that's not always the case. My strobes fired in response to a number of point-and-shooting parents last week.

photobug wrote:

Whew, I am totally confused here.

My fault.

photobug wrote:

And when you say, "trigger the Speedlite" ... I thought you were putting the 580ex on the camera and using it to trigger the studio strobes; isn't that what you meant by "it is my intention to use the 580 to trigger the remote strobes"? In which case, why do you need a LiteAid (or ST-E2) at all?

I don't want the 580 on the camera (in most situations). When in the field, I'd like to have it on a separate tripod or wherever else makes sense. (I hated the thought of paying $50 for Canon's cable, too.)

photobug wrote:

If you're worried about losing the auto features of the Canon Speedlites when you use studio strobes -- here's the important advice I got from DGrin a few months ago: if you use studio strobes, forget automation; just set your camera on "M" (manual) and it's really just as easy as going a full-auto-flash route (and more predictable). I was skeptical at first, but our DGrin colleagues were right!

I haven't been on long enough to have seen that, so thanks for posting it here.

photobug wrote:

Given your need to trigger studio strobes (and not even your 430ex), I can't figure out why you'd want to drop ~$600 on a 580ex and an ST-E2.

I want the Speedlite, but I'm questioning the ST-E2 at this point. I guess maybe I should have saved the extra cash for a Pocket Wizard.

photobug wrote:

....Or is it the influence of the nearby Pacifc Ocean (or the current cold wave here) that is causing me to completely misunderstand what you're trying to do?

Nope - I think it's heat wave in the Mid-Atlantic that's causing the confusion.

Have a good night.

Jeffro · December 20, 2006

Is it too late to call and switch from the ST-E2 to the 430EX? That would have given you a two flash, wireless set up, which would come in handy in the field. You could use the 580EX on camera to trigger the 430EX off camera, and if you didn't want the flash from the 580 to hit your subject you could always point it up and away.

photobug · December 20, 2006

redhawk wrote:

I had thought the ST-E2 offered some advantage (RF) over the 430EX as a trigger for the 580EX (apart from size), but it sounds like I'll have to deal with the line-of-sight issue after all.

I hate to break it to you, but the difference is worse than that -- the 430ex cannot function at all as a master flash (to trigger slave 430ex's/580ex's). Only the 580ex (or 550EX or ST-E2) can be a "master"; the 430ex is purely a slave flash in Canon's wireless (IR) system. See Canon's web page for the 430EX; that's why it says there:

...it can be used as an affordable "slave unit."

My plans for the 580EX in the studio environment involve mounting it on a lamp stand and using it as a fill light.

That's OK, but in that case it will be a slave. How will you trigger it? Only a 580ex, 55ex, or an ST-E2 can serve as a full-auto master to it. Otherwise, you have to set the flash output level manually on it and use some type of remote hot-shoe to trigger it.

[The 580EX] should be positioned close enough to my camera to work okay, but I understand how that's not always the case.

I don't understand this one ... why is its proximity to your camera important? (unless you're concerned about IR ranges of master 580EX/ST-E2, the RF range of RF wireless triggers, or the cord length of a PC cord).

My strobes fired in response to a number of point-and-shooting parents last week.

That's what your stobes' slave-flash sensors live for

.

Solution to that one: turn off the slave-flash feature,either by flipping a switch (if present), or by taping a piece of dark paper (or black gaffer's tape) across the sensor. Then trigger them by a method that only your camera will trigger (e.g. an RF wireless remote or a PC cord).

More reasons that you might not want parent's flashes triggering your monolights:

the parents may ruin some of your shots because the strobes aren't recharged when you press your shutter release
the parents will be wearing out your expensive flash tubes
This one is a little more mercenary, but you are running a business and did lay out several C-notes for those monolights, didn't you?... if you're selling the photos you take, only you should be getting the benefit of those beautiful strobes & umbrellas ... not Sally's dad and Joey's aunt Mathilda. They may get the "best photos of their lives" with that gorgeous soft lighting you graciously donated -- and of course with such gorgeous photos, why should they spring for the ones you took?

I don't want the 580 on the camera (in most situations). When in the field, I'd like to have it on a separate tripod or wherever else makes sense.

Ditto above comment -- triggering it with "what"? An ST-E2? Or maybe in manual mode, with RF wireless triggers?

(I hated the thought of paying $50 for Canon's cable, too.)

If you're talking about the "Off-Camera Shoe Cord 2" (did I remember that right?), it's only 2' long, stretched out. You won't get the flash very far from the camera with it. That cord is essential when you use an on-camera flash bracket (like a Stroboframe), though.

I think it's the heat wave in the Mid-Atlantic that's causing the confusion.

I dunno ... it has actually gotten a few degrees below freezing the last few nights out here in the SF Bay area, which drives more than a few "over the edge". These are unheard-of temperatures out here. Me, I'm from the Midwest, so it doesn't bother me (as long as I dress for it), but so many here no clue what to do with this weather! Most think that frost on windshields, frozen door locks, frozen pipes, electric engine heaters, bringing car batteries indoors overnight, and outdoor ice in general are all things Hollywood makes up, or takes pictures of while filming in Antarctica (after all, how could anyone live where water actually freezes?!). I've travelled to cold climes on business with others and when we hop in a rental car at the destination, they can't figure out what that stick on the back seat is for (a windshield scraper/brush). No kidding. ...So maybe I've been out here long enough that it's beginning to affect me, too

.

redhawk · December 20, 2006

photobug wrote:

I hate to break it to you, but the difference is worse than that -- the 430ex cannot function at all as a master flash (to trigger slave 430ex's/580ex's).

So it is good that I got the ST-E2.

photobug wrote:

I don't understand this one ... why is its proximity to your camera important? (unless you're concerned about IR ranges of master 580EX/ST-E2, the RF range of RF wireless triggers, or the cord length of a PC cord).

I was concerned about the ST-E2 talking to the 530EX.

photobug wrote:

Solution to that one: turn off the slave-flash feature,either by flipping a switch (if present), or by taping a piece of dark paper (or black gaffer's tape) across the sensor. Then trigger them by a method that only your camera will trigger (e.g. an RF wireless remote or a PC cord).

That's the plan once I've got a Pocket Wizard setup.

photobug wrote:

More reasons that you might not want parent's flashes triggering your monolights:
the parents may ruin some of your shots because the strobes aren't recharged when you press your shutter release

the parents will be wearing out your expensive flash tubes

This one is a little more mercenary, but you are running a business and did lay out several C-notes for those monolights, didn't you?... if you're selling the photos you take, only you should be getting the benefit of those beautiful strobes & umbrellas ... not Sally's dad and Joey's aunt Mathilda. They may get the "best photos of their lives" with that gorgeous soft lighting you graciously donated -- and of course with such gorgeous photos, why should they spring for the ones you took?

You're right on all counts. Next time around I need to either arrange my setup in a manner that prevents their shooting (creative bookend positioning, maybe?) or muster the confidence to come out and say that my studio setup is available for rent, but not for free.

photobug wrote:

Ditto above comment -- triggering it with "what"? An ST-E2? Or maybe in manual mode, with RF wireless triggers?

I just checked UPS and it looks like the 580EX and ST-E2 are "out for delivery." Unfortunately, they're being delivered to someplace I won't reach until Friday night.

photobug wrote:

If you're talking about the "Off-Camera Shoe Cord 2" (did I remember that right?), it's only 2' long, stretched out. You won't get the flash very far from the camera with it. That cord is essential when you use an on-camera flash bracket (like a Stroboframe), though.

That's the one I was talking about. You can buy two feet of fiber or HDMI for much less than that. Charging $50 for that cable is just plain offensive.

Thanks, photobug.

photobug · December 20, 2006

Redhawk,

redhawk wrote:

So it is good that I got the ST-E2.

If you want to remotely trigger then 580EX as a slave (without other wireless eqpt), then yep, that should do it.

...Next time around I need to either arrange my setup in a manner that prevents their shooting (creative bookend positioning, maybe?) or muster the confidence to come out and say that my studio setup is available for rent, but not for free.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable saying the latter (but then, I'm not big on confrontation) ... I'd rather just drop $50-$100 on wirless triggers so the setup silently only works for me, then no discussion would be necessary.

Of course, if you say anything, it's all in how you phrase it. You could, for example,inform the assembled Peanuts gallery of family photographers that:

for each pose, you will take your photos first, and request that no one else interrupt (because you're directing those shots and don't want the subjects distracted ... and/or use the old-but-still-valid reason that other/multiple flashes can ruin your shots (I've had that happen!)).
after you're done shooting a pose, you will give the "OK" for anyone else who wants to take a quick shot (note nearly-subliminal use of "quick" )

Perhaps you can hook your strobes into a single power cord and put a switch in the power cord, conveniently located near your camera. Then you can turn the strobes off(!) before you give the OK sign for others to shoot. It may be a pain for you to turn them on and off all the time, but at least that's an option if you don't want to trigger with PC cords or an RF wireless setup.

[The Canon Off-Camera Shoe Cord 2] is the one I was talking about. You can buy two feet of fiber or HDMI for much less than that. Charging $50 for that cable is just plain offensive.

Yeah, I hear you... I have one (on my Stroboframe bracket) and Canon does charge dearly for it! Of course, it's not just the cord, but also the specialized connectors on either end, and it is pretty ruggedly made, but still...

For that matter, Canon charges very dearly for all its flash equipment; this cord is no exception. For example, compare the $370 Canon 580EX to the $135 Sigma EF-500 DG ST or the $200 EF-500 DG Super (which ziggy53 has oft-recommended) -- the Canon flash is 2x to 2.5x the price for similar features. The Sigma will even work within Canon's own IR master/slave system.

ExposeTheMoment · December 20, 2006

Here take a look at my pic I took

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=49688

jrollins · December 20, 2006

redhawk wrote:

So it is good that I got the ST-E2.

I bought an Alien Bees kit for my starter, and thought I could use the ST-E2 as well. I was wrong. The ST-E2 kept trying to send ETTL signals and the strobes would fire like every other time. I ended up with one of these:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=63159&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

If I had it to do over, and the money, I would definitely go with the Pocket Wizards. I've had several shoots where I got out of the line of sight and missed a shot.

On a different note. I always shoot at ISO 100 in the studio so I get the best possible quality. I can do ISO 100 with one strobe if I really tried and used a reflector. I can't believe that you would need to go to 1600 ISO...

Here's a shot using three strobes, but two of them are focused solely on the backdrop:

I have GOT to get a light meter. Does anyone have a suggestion of a good meter?

pathfinder · December 21, 2006

Photobug is giving excellent advice.

For studio strobes, PWs are defintely the way for a working pro to go. Light sensing triggers will work in your own studio fairly well, but out in the real world they are a pain as described so well.

The ST-E2 is handy as a focusing aid, sans flash, in very dark environments. I like using it for that reason alone.
It works pretty well for candids at family gatherings at Christmas, and is ok in your own CLOSED studio. It does allow ETTL which is nice when needed, but most studio shots are shot with the camera and flash in old fashioned complete manual mode.

When you have total control of the light, you do not need the camera to be making any exposure choices for you. It will be wrong, because it is a reflected metering system. When you control the light, you want no variation in f stop or shutter speed that you have not deliberately chosen.

I tried to shoot studio strobes without RF triggers too at church and other public shootings - it does not work - the strobes fail to fire or are discharged by some one else's flash and I missed shots. PWs rule!!

One mark of a real pro is that they have tools that work reliably - not necessarily the fanciest or best, but having reliability is fundamental.

redhawk · April 28, 2007

My Second Week as a Studio Photographer
I've learned a lot since last December, in part thanks to the folks who participated in this thread.

I sold my old strobes and picked up a pair of AlienBees (a B800 and a B1600). I got an umbrella and brolly box to go with them.

I also purchased their radio trigger system.

Things were completely different this time around. The lights behaved as they should. I wound up borrowing the RPS Studio strobes I sold to use as accent and background lighting for the shoot, and they worked fine with the AlienBees triggers.

As ziggy53 suggested, there was something funky going on (he suggested preflash) between my camera and the slave units. I was able to shoot at ISO 200 f/11 even with the lights dialed down. Using the radio triggers is far superior to using the units as slaves; I can try out some of the techniques in Christopher Grey's excellent Master Lighting book, whereas before that wasn't feasible.

Some of my smaller expenditures have also proven effective, such as dropping $5 for an 18% grey card. When you're shooting 400 pictures, it's nice to not have to adjust the white balance in software. A $5 piece of foamboard from Staples makes an excellent bookend, too.

As for the Speedlites (I wound up with a 580 and a 430), I'm not sure I'll be able to use them in my studio setup. I'm happy to have them for non-studio shoots, but I've had trouble trying to make them work with the AlienBees receiver. I think I'll just get a third AlienBees unit. Since I set everything manually, it will be quicker to change the power level on a third strobe than it would be on a Speedlite.

Thank you again for all the feedback here.

Art Scott · April 28, 2007

Here is some advice given to me from Peter Gowland (of Rigid tool Calendar, Playboy and Hollywood star portraits fame).....when purchasing studio strobes try and do your best to keep ALL the strobes the same exact model.....you may want to rethink your AB set up and strive for 3 or 4 of the 1600's as a complete kit.....the reason is this.....I presume you are using the 1600 as your main light and the 800 as a back or fill light......okay a very simple sceanario that has happened to me more that once.....doing a shoot with studio lights and someone accidently knocks over a light and stand and the lamp blows or it just blows ( i have had brand new lamps die right out of the box and i have lamps that still work that are over 15yrs old) ....what do you do if it is the AB1600 that dies and you really need the Power of that 1600 main light and all you have left is the 800 (half the power and no back or fill light...can't cancell the shoot and defintely don't want the client to see you stress over the blown lamp........

So in reality it is impossible to get 1600ws out of a n 800ws lamp.....if all the lamps are the same it doesn't matter which light goes where in the set up....no confusion and every light is interchangable in every way......

I like Paul Buffs equipment and have used them exclusively now for over 15yrs (iuse White Lightening but may move over to AB's when purchasing new lights and it is time, mine have been off the books for several yrs now).

I made one mistake a few yrs ago.......I have a strobe that died and I mean it poped and blew smoke thru the cooling slots...well I dismantled it and took a test meter to all of the componets...yep capacitors blown and a few fried resistors...even the circuit board was a tad crispy....it became a slight science project and then I tossed it.......I was talking to Paul Buff one weekend and mentioned what happened to my strobe and he tells me to send it in and for 60 -80 bucks it will be like new again......I got sick to my stomach as it had made its way to the dump via the city trash haulers.....I knew he had great customer service but I never thought they would rebuild a light that was over 10 yrs old for only 80 bucks at the most and that incluided the shipping it back to me......

So as far as I am concerned one cannot go wrong with a Paul Buff Product.

I do not know him prsonally, but he has taken my calls to answer any question I have had .....now with email....well I just email my questions.

Good luck

redhawk · April 29, 2007

One of each --> two of each
That's great advice. Since I have a B800 and a B1600, I guess I'll make my next light another B1600 and, if I get a fourth, I'll make that another B800.

Thank you.

dcyphert · June 7, 2007

Still learning... in need of a little expert advice.
I just finished doing on-location photo sessions with two dance schools (indoors). taking individual photos with a backdrop. I used (2) Canon 430ex ETTL flash on stands shooting thru translucent white umbrellas, positioning one on each side of the subject at 6-7 ft in front of the subject, 45 degress to the side. I triggered the flashes with the Canon ST-E2 tranmitter and this setup has been working great. I do have two identical strobes that are more powerful and that I have used with those two umbrellas as well as with a softbox, but even at half-power they wash out the subject, and I couldn't backoff because of confined space....another issue is how to trigger them from my Canon 30D DSLR (without a PCconnection)

I have been reading about the radio slaves and prefer to be all wireless and be able to control when the strobes flash, not wondering if an IR transmitter is within range to do it...I have never used these and don't know where to look for the the equipment that will all work together. If anyone can give me some expert advice or tips I'd appreciate it.

My first week as a studio photographer

Comments