Recommendations for Good Portable Strobes?

kathynmeg · January 6, 2007

I am in need of some strobes. I need them to be fairly portable. Any recommendations?? Also if I were to use lighting in studio wanting to get a "natural light" photo, what would you all recommend? I can use light from an incoming window and reflectors but what could I use as an extra catch light or something to bring in more light natural spectrum on a cloud day?

Thanks!!

Scott_Quier · January 6, 2007

The Alien Bees are soooo close to natural light that it's not funny. I've got three AB800 strobes and am quite happy with them.

Alien Bee also does the portable thing with batteries.

The AB800 stobe is not very large, so it might do what you are looking for.

Check them out at http://www.alienbees.com/flash.html

Hope this helps some.

kathynmeg · January 6, 2007

Scott,

Yes I have been looking at the Bees. I am thinking of the Digibee kit actually. Have you used a brollybox?? Are they as good as a softbox?

Scott_Quier · January 6, 2007

kathynmeg wrote:

Scott,

Yes I have been looking at the Bees. I am thinking of the Digibee kit actually. Have you used a brollybox?? Are they as good as a softbox?

I've not used a brollybox. I have a couple of umbies and a couple of softboxes. That's all.

O BTW, I have found that when I shoot a WhiBal card under my ABs, that the lights are off only 50 degrees K and the tint not at all (FWIW).

kathynmeg · January 6, 2007

Scott_Quier wrote:

I've not used a brollybox. I have a couple of umbies and a couple of softboxes. That's all.

O BTW, I have found that when I shoot a WhiBal card under my ABs, that the lights are off only 50 degrees K and the tint not at all (FWIW).

Thanks so much Scott!! You have been so helpful. I am actually thinking of the B800's now ...hmmm. Not sure if I can dish out the cash for two lights now or not with the accessories I need to go along. I have not used a whiBal card but will going forward because I have been spending so much time in photoshop getting rid of the color casting. BTW...I am using strobes now, just not my own. One is a flat panel strobe and it is very hard to control.

Thanks again!!

Art Scott · January 7, 2007

Kathy,
I would say that even if you can only afford the AB400 that would be a good start until you can afford the 800 or better....You might want to look at the white lightening line...the parent company of the Aliens....Paul C Buff......some times he has close outs on a line and drops the cost to be almost as inexpensive as the AB's....his Cota baoxes are more expensive than the Brolly and look to be a whole lot better constructed.

BTW...neither the Bee's King Luap or Paul Buff (one and the same:D) will try and abduct you if you email questions and they answer real fast (at least that has been my experience since making my frst order around 20yrs ago and still using the same lights...had them rebuilt once for cheap...now geting ready to order 3 new lamps so I can sell and move up to some 1600 or 3200 lights)...

Good luck

LuckyBob · January 7, 2007

I've actually got two AB800's on order

, and I was looking over the Vagabond portable power systems for it and came to the conclusion it's basically an AC inverter. I've got a 350W inverter lying around which I'll try when I get the flashes, although I'm concerned since the flashes say they consume 8A max (960W). It occurs to me that this would mean that you couldn't plug two AB's into a standard 15A household circuit without tripping a breaker though, so I'm kind of skeptical about this (as I'm sure plenty of people do so).

kathynmeg wrote:

Not sure if I can dish out the cash for two lights now

From what I've read the ABs can be upgraded later with a few part changes at the factory

Side note: If the inverter route works, picking up some 12V gel batteries could be a "do it yourself" Vagabond

Example: http://www.stalkerradar.com/images/port-batteries.jpg

kathynmeg · January 7, 2007

Wow so much great information to process!!! I am sooooo thrilled I found this place! Thanks to all!!

ziggy53 · January 7, 2007

LuckyBob wrote:

I've actually got two AB800's on order , and I was looking over the Vagabond portable power systems for it and came to the conclusion it's basically an AC inverter. I've got a 350W inverter lying around which I'll try when I get the flashes, although I'm concerned since the flashes say they consume 8A max (960W). It occurs to me that this would mean that you couldn't plug two AB's into a standard 15A household circuit without tripping a breaker though, so I'm kind of skeptical about this (as I'm sure plenty of people do so).

From what I've read the ABs can be upgraded later with a few part changes at the factory

Side note: If the inverter route works, picking up some 12V gel batteries could be a "do it yourself" Vagabond
Example: http://www.stalkerradar.com/images/port-batteries.jpg

Be careful there, the AB inverter units have a much better waveform than a typical consumer inverter. You may damage or destroy the ABs by attaching to an inverter that does not have "true sine wave" output. Modified sine wave units are not good enough to provide safe power to these flashes.

Modern electronic studio flashes do have a very high initial current draw, but it is a "spike" and tapers rapidly to a more manageable draw that most circuits can handle. Two units on the same circuit are probably OK except on the most sensitive circuit breakers (breakers that have been stressed and are close to the end of their life can do this.)

ziggy53

Scott_Quier · January 7, 2007

ziggy53 wrote:

Modern electronic studio flashes do have a very high initial current draw, but it is a "spike" and tapers rapidly to a more manageable draw that most circuits can handle. Two units on the same circuit are probably OK except on the most sensitive circuit breakers (breakers that have been stressed and are close to the end of their life can do this.)

ziggy53

This is interesting. I have run three AB800 strobes on one circuit (don't know the rating of the breaker on that circuit - will have to check) and have no problems. However, as mitigation, I have never run any of them at anything about about 1/2 power, so maybe that's why I've not had a problem?

ziggy53 · January 7, 2007

Scott_Quier wrote:

This is interesting. I have run three AB800 strobes on one circuit (don't know the rating of the breaker on that circuit - will have to check) and have no problems. However, as mitigation, I have never run any of them at anything about about 1/2 power, so maybe that's why I've not had a problem?

At my previous employer, I ran 4 - 10 year-old Bowens mono-lights off one circuit without problem. When I tried to run 2 of the lights at another location, I had problems until a circuit breaker was replaced, hence my observation.

ziggy53

LuckyBob · January 7, 2007

ziggy53 wrote:

Be careful there, the AB inverter units have a much better waveform than a typical consumer inverter. You may damage or destroy the ABs by attaching to an inverter that does not have "true sine wave" output. Modified sine wave units are not good enough to provide safe power to these flashes.

ziggy53

Good point - although I'd think that if APC recommends using the inverter for things like notebooks and game consoles, the output can't be all that bad since they're fairly sensitive to bad power. Granted, the AB's use voltage multipliers on the AC so the faults in a cheap inverter would be exponentially worse; guess I'll have to track down an oscilloscope

JBurt · January 8, 2007

kathynmeg wrote:

I am in need of some strobes. I need them to be fairly portable. Any recommendations?? Also if I were to use lighting in studio wanting to get a "natural light" photo, what would you all recommend? I can use light from an incoming window and reflectors but what could I use as an extra catch light or something to bring in more light natural spectrum on a cloud day?

Thanks!!

Take a look at this How-to by Shay Stephens. In my opinion, the best truly portable system. Light weight, self-contained, and versatile.

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1166287

BTW: Thanks again for the tip Shay.

dogwood · January 8, 2007

ziggy53 wrote:

Be careful there, the AB inverter units have a much better waveform than a typical consumer inverter. You may damage or destroy the ABs by attaching to an inverter that does not have "true sine wave" output. Modified sine wave units are not good enough to provide safe power to these flashes.

Modern electronic studio flashes do have a very high initial current draw, but it is a "spike" and tapers rapidly to a more manageable draw that most circuits can handle. Two units on the same circuit are probably OK except on the most sensitive circuit breakers (breakers that have been stressed and are close to the end of their life can do this.)

ziggy53

All true. Though I'd be pretty amazed if a 20 amp circuit couldn't handle more than two AB's at full power. Plus, the AB's have a built in circuit that can trip if you fire them too fast. But that's just my experience-- I don't pretend to know much about electricity.

In terms of advice on AB gear-- their lights are fine but you'll find stands and modifiers from other companies will be much better made (and cost more). It all depends on how often and how you're going to use the gear. For example, their silver umbrellas are terrible (they loose their coating fast and they're just, well, cheap) yet their white and black umbrellas are nice.

Same with the stands-- the lightweight ones are really unstable, the heavy weight ones are better, but not as good as a quality c-stand. Avoid the AB boom arm at all costs if you EVER travel to a location with your gear. A c-stand is easier and more stable.

And I'd definitely start with the AB 800-- I have two. I also have two AB 400's and they just don't have the power I need for much of what I shoot. My AB 1600 is on it's way to be repaired :cry though-- after it popped and started smoking last weekend on a shoot. Sure wish it had thrown the circuit breaker instead

AB customer service is top-notch though. You honestly won't find (aside from dgrin and smugmug) customer service that is so helpful and useful if you need it. They actually let you talk to the techs on the phone if you have questions! And Paul Buff hangs out on the lighting forum over at dpreview.

ziggy53 · January 8, 2007

LuckyBob wrote:

Good point - although I'd think that if APC recommends using the inverter for things like notebooks and game consoles, the output can't be all that bad since they're fairly sensitive to bad power. Granted, the AB's use voltage multipliers on the AC so the faults in a cheap inverter would be exponentially worse; guess I'll have to track down an oscilloscope

A pretty good test for inverter integrity under light load is an older AC powered AM radio. A light hum means the inverter is very close to "line AC" quality. Most simple modified sine wave inverters are unusable because of the "noisy" waveform, which manifests as a loud hum on the radio.

Another problem is that modified sine waveform signals lack the RMS voltage required for safe operation. Most common volt meters won't read correct AC voltage coming from a modified sine wave for the same reason electronic flash units can have problems. Neither have appropriate filtering required to smooth the waveform.

A modern AC electronic flash does indeed have it's own inverter to raise the voltage from line level to that required by the flash. Feeding a dirty signal into the charging circuit will cause it to work harder and heat more than with a clean signal, causing premature failure.

The AlienBee Vagabond units are true sine wave inverters, and are really not too overpriced, considering that they are tested and certified to be used with the AB monolights.

More information:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2481611&postcount=8
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=21173329
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t250419-p2-portable-alienbees-wvagabond-battery.html

ziggy53

dogwood · January 8, 2007

ziggy53 wrote:

The AlienBee Vagabond units are true sine wave inverters, and are really not too overpriced, considering that they are tested and certified to be used with the AB monolights.

More information:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2481611&postcount=8
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=21173329
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t250419-p2-portable-alienbees-wvagabond-battery.html

ziggy53

And... it's possible to build your own version of the vagabond too. All the parts are available from places other than AB/Paul C. Buff. Good discussion of this on the lighting forum at dpreview.

kathynmeg · January 9, 2007

lust

Thanks again everyone for your input and expert advice!!! I am still thinking and shoppping around. Either way I go though I have some great things to think about and some fantastic options thanks to all of your assistance!!

Scott_Quier · January 9, 2007

kathynmeg wrote:

lustThanks again everyone for your input and expert advice!!! I am still thinking and shoppping around. Either way I go though I have some great things to think about and some fantastic options thanks to all of your assistance!!

Maybe from some of the others. Advice from me tends to be worth about what you paid for it. Looking forward to hearing what you decide and, even more so, on seeing some of the results. Happy Hunting!

padu · January 9, 2007

Scott_Quier wrote:

The Alien Bees are soooo close to natural light that it's not funny. I've got three AB800 strobes and am quite happy with them.

Alien Bee also does the portable thing with batteries.

The AB800 stobe is not very large, so it might do what you are looking for.

Check them out at http://www.alienbees.com/flash.html

Hope this helps some.

I got one AB800 and I couldn't be happier. I saw their vagabond system and I thought it was a bit pricey...

>>Instead, what about a car battery with a good inverter. Would that work?<<
edit: I should've read the whole thread before posting... good discussion on inverters. Now I see the dangers and I'll investigate it better with my oscope...

LuckyBob · January 9, 2007

I checked the APC inverter I have and sure enough, in does say in small print "non-sinusoidal output" :cry. The middle link that ziggy53 posted looks like the ticket, though! Thanks

dmcreations · January 11, 2007

With regards to cost - I recently agreed to buy a set of Alien Bees together with a friend. The lights are not something that either of us would use very frequently, so the sharing works out well. When I need them, I can use them, and vice versa. To keep it simple, he owns one light, I own the other. Pretty decent arrangement. Maybe something to consider if the initial cost is too high to buy yor own full set. I know it was for me. The Bees do a great job, by the way. We are both very happy with the results.

We've also been playing with the idea of putting together a small group of photographers who might benefit from sharing equipment in this way. You can have access to a far wider range of equipment if you pool your resources. Anyways, just a thought...

Manfr3d · January 11, 2007

kathynmeg wrote:

I am in need of some strobes. I need them to be fairly portable. Any recommendations?? Also if I were to use lighting in studio wanting to get a "natural light" photo, what would you all recommend? I can use light from an incoming window and reflectors but what could I use as an extra catch light or something to bring in more light natural spectrum on a cloud day?

Thanks!!

Did you check out the strobist blog? It shows a very
ightweight, affordable and portable setup:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

kathynmeg · January 12, 2007

Thanks Again!!
Again, thanks eveyone for the fantastic input and advice!! I really love the new friends I have found here...people of like mind!!! Anyway...I bought a set of AB's800 today and I am so excited!!! I cannot wait until they come!! I read and read and got ya'lls feedback here and talked with other photos I know and the AB's kept coming up. Being the girly girl I am got the pink!! Thanks again everyone!!

wink

My partner and I also have a new website in addition to my own personal site. I made this one myself with a template of sorts. Comments are welcome!!
http://www.studioguild.net

ziggy53 · January 12, 2007

kathynmeg wrote:

... Being the girly girl I am got the pink!! Thanks again everyone!!wink

...

A "girly girl" with her own set of monolights! (You gotta love it.

)

Best of luck but remember to share,

ziggy53

chicodawg · January 20, 2007

Hope someone is still monitoring this thread.

I have a question about tripping the circuit breakers. If you get the AB Vagabond portable power pack, can you just use that rather than connect to the A/C line?

I'm getting close to ordering 4 AB800's (items similar to the "Busy Bee" package, but not the stands or umbrellas due to everyone here saying they're "cheaply made").

With 4 800's, I should be concerned about using standard household circuits, right? Wouldn't the Vagabond power the units sufficiently?

Thanks,
Mike

ziggy53 · January 20, 2007

chicodawg wrote:

Hope someone is still monitoring this thread.

I have a question about tripping the circuit breakers. If you get the AB Vagabond portable power pack, can you just use that rather than connect to the A/C line?

I'm getting close to ordering 4 AB800's (items similar to the "Busy Bee" package, but not the stands or umbrellas due to everyone here saying they're "cheaply made").

With 4 800's, I should be concerned about using standard household circuits, right? Wouldn't the Vagabond power the units sufficiently?

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

I doubt that you will have problems with house circuits. I ran four (Bowens) monolights through a single circuit, and three of those were often full pop. I only had problems with a particular weak circuit breaker. Once it was replaced, the problems went away.

I don't have a Vagabond unit, but it's my understanding that recycling might be slower, and you probably don't want more than two flashes per Vagabond. (Paul B. says you can run up to 10 units per Vagabond, but intimates that recycle times will be "automatically" adjusted.)

http://www.white-lightning.com/manuals/(OM)vagabond.htm

If you need true battery portability, I suggest building something using battery powered flash units.

ziggy53

kathynmeg · January 21, 2007

The new AB's are fantastic!!!! I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE them!!!! Here are a couple from my very first shoot. I have some adjusting to do but I was happy with the initial results.

kathynmeg · January 21, 2007

kathynmeg · January 21, 2007

kathynmeg · January 21, 2007

jdryan3 · January 21, 2007

kathynmeg wrote:

The new AB's are fantastic!!!! I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE them!!!! Here are a couple from my very first shoot. I have some adjusting to do but I was happy with the initial results.

I see 4 different posts of the lovely red X :cry