digg on dgrin POY and thoughts for next year

SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
edited January 21, 2007 in The Big Picture
did a quick look at digg on our poty contest-

one comment, in my mind, stood out-

'There were a few good pictures, but the one of the kid could have been taken at Sears.'

I really don't think so-

it's one of the prettiest little portraits I've seen-


and yeah, I really don't think we're the best in the world; a little hyperbole there, but there are some pretty doggone good photos on this sight-

and compared to other forums that I've looked at, some of the most informed, helpful and decent folks you could find (well, I do try to be helpful-I might get around to the other two someday)-


I also want to thank all who voted for my photo; I hope that next year more participate for there were many really great shots that were not entered-



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Comments

  • DeeDee Registered Users Posts: 2,981 Major grins
    edited January 18, 2007
    I loved your photo
    of the foggy trees! But I'm a "tree" person anyway. I rarely go to digg or those sites, probably waste enough time with the ones I do go to. Laughing.gif!

    It was really difficult for me to choose one to vote on in POTY, really difficult and so many deserving photos...
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 18, 2007
    gefillmore wrote:
    I hope that next year more participate for there were many really great shots that were not entered-
    me too, and that more people take the time to vote. that one is still a headscratch.gif
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]


  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited January 18, 2007
    erik-

    any thought as to whether categories would generate more interest (also with a general poty)?

    also, just a thought, let the moderators pick out the photos from the past year (with consent from the photographer)-
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 18, 2007
    gefillmore wrote:
    also, just a thought, let the moderators pick out the photos from the past year (with consent from the photographer)-
    (finger on nose) not it! eek7.gif
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]


  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited January 18, 2007
    DoctorIt wrote:
    (finger on nose) not it! eek7.gif


    You mean IN nose, don'tcha?
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,962 moderator
    edited January 19, 2007
    gefillmore wrote:
    erik-

    also, just a thought, let the moderators pick out the photos from the past year (with consent from the photographer)-
    Interesting idea. While there was certainly no shortage of great pics, I did notice that some of my favorite photographers did not submit anything at all. Maybe we could allow members to nominate other people's pics instead of submitting their own. I can think of a few problems that would create, but nothing that couldn't be solved.

    Cheers,
  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    rsinmadrid wrote:
    Interesting idea. While there was certainly no shortage of great pics, I did notice that some of my favorite photographers did not submit anything at all. Maybe we could allow members to nominate other people's pics instead of submitting their own. I can think of a few problems that would create, but nothing that couldn't be solved.

    Cheers,

    why not?-

    you're trying to get more to vote-

    do something different besides cajoling for votes?-
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    so now that we're talking about votes, I'd love to hear from you dgrinners:

    why did the POY get so overlooked? was it because there's no cash-value prize? (I hope not) over in the challenges, I run the poll for 3 days, and rarely bump it for votes - it still gets over 200 votes, easy. In the POY, we dugg it, had a sitewide announcement, I put up a PSA in the challenge forum, I bumped it at least everyday, and it was open for 7 days! It got less than 200 votes. headscratch.gif

    As user-observers, was there something different? or is there just a more focused voting group that only hangs out in the challenge forum?
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]


  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    You bumped it every day? I don't remember it showing up everyday in my "New Stuff" search. ne_nau.gif
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    wxwax wrote:
    You bumped it every day? I don't remember it showing up everyday in my "New Stuff" search. ne_nau.gif
    pretty sure I did, and if not me, andy or someone else did for sure. strange
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]


  • HiSPLHiSPL Registered Users Posts: 251 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    I also do not remember it showing up in the "new stuff" search everyday. That is the only way I search a forum, because I surf so many different forums. I think possibly the there wer too many images to choose from. I know I had a hard time narrowing down.

    Maybe a POTY quarter final could be had every quarter, and the winners moved on to the yearly vote. ne_nau.gif

    Anyway, congrats DaveV, I knew I was voting for a winner!:ivar
  • FlyingginaFlyinggina Registered Users Posts: 2,639 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    Just a Thought
    I voted in both rounds, basically because I really wanted to support the one I liked best. It didn't win but it made the finals and, in the end, got a respectable tally. :ivar That said, I was disappointed at the small number of entries in the first round. I remember some spectacular shots (and photographers) over the year that didn't appear (or weren't represented) and that made it less interesting to me as a voter. Don't get me wrong. The entries were great and any one of them would have been a worthy winner. It's just that we didn't start with a really good sampling of the work posted on dgrin in 2006.

    The few people I cajole to vote on the bi-weekly challenges (even if I am not entered and even if they don't vote for me!), weren't terribly interested. Only one voted and that was in the finals only. Why? I'm not sure. Possibly because they aren't regular participants in any of the specific photo forums.ne_nau.gif Also, there was some impatience with having to look at the pictures in one place and vote in another. I suspect that there is nothing you can do about that in the first round given the large numbers of entries (even this year). I would be amazed if the absence of prizes had a thing to do with the vote turnout.

    So, FWIW, here are some suggestions.

    1. Have a POTY for each of the five subject catagories under Shots.

    2. Have a grand final runoff to chose the grand winner out of the 5 winners. The Smithsonian's annual photo contest works like that, although they don't put it to a vote of subscribers!)

    3. Remind members every month or two during the year that photos they post on dgrin will be elegible for the POTY at the end of the year. This might encourage more postings and participation in the forums throughout the year, which would be a good thing.

    4. This may be counterintuitive, but it might help to shorten the voting time. Human nature being what it is, people decide that since they have time they'll do it tomorrow. Then tomorrow turns out to be one day too late.

    Virginia
    _______________________________________________
    "A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus

    Email
  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    DoctorIt wrote:
    pretty sure I did, and if not me, andy or someone else did for sure. strange

    easy to check; look at the thread-

    but I would think that anyone who had been on dgrin for just a little bit during that time period would have known about it-
  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    Flyinggina wrote:
    I voted in both rounds, basically because I really wanted to support the one I liked best. It didn't win but it made the finals and, in the end, got a respectable tally. :ivar That said, I was disappointed at the small number of entries in the first round. I remember some spectacular shots (and photographers) over the year that didn't appear (or weren't represented) and that made it less interesting to me as a voter. Don't get me wrong. The entries were great and any one of them would have been a worthy winner. It's just that we didn't start with a really good sampling of the work posted on dgrin in 2006.

    The few people I cajole to vote on the bi-weekly challenges (even if I am not entered and even if they don't vote for me!), weren't terribly interested. Only one voted and that was in the finals only. Why? I'm not sure. Possibly because they aren't regular participants in any of the specific photo forums.ne_nau.gif Also, there was some impatience with having to look at the pictures in one place and vote in another. I suspect that there is nothing you can do about that in the first round given the large numbers of entries (even this year). I would be amazed if the absence of prizes had a thing to do with the vote turnout.

    So, FWIW, here are some suggestions.

    1. Have a POTY for each of the five subject catagories under Shots.

    2. Have a grand final runoff to chose the grand winner out of the 5 winners. The Smithsonian's annual photo contest works like that, although they don't put it to a vote of subscribers!)

    3. Remind members every month or two during the year that photos they post on dgrin will be elegible for the POTY at the end of the year. This might encourage more postings and participation in the forums throughout the year, which would be a good thing.

    4. This may be counterintuitive, but it might help to shorten the voting time. Human nature being what it is, people decide that since they have time they'll do it tomorrow. Then tomorrow turns out to be one day too late.

    Virginia

    some good suggestions-
  • saurorasaurora Registered Users Posts: 4,320 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    Flyinggina wrote:
    I voted in both rounds, basically because I really wanted to support the one I liked best. It didn't win but it made the finals and, in the end, got a respectable tally. :ivar That said, I was disappointed at the small number of entries in the first round. I remember some spectacular shots (and photographers) over the year that didn't appear (or weren't represented) and that made it less interesting to me as a voter. Don't get me wrong. The entries were great and any one of them would have been a worthy winner. It's just that we didn't start with a really good sampling of the work posted on dgrin in 2006.

    The few people I cajole to vote on the bi-weekly challenges (even if I am not entered and even if they don't vote for me!), weren't terribly interested. Only one voted and that was in the finals only. Why? I'm not sure. Possibly because they aren't regular participants in any of the specific photo forums.ne_nau.gif Also, there was some impatience with having to look at the pictures in one place and vote in another. I suspect that there is nothing you can do about that in the first round given the large numbers of entries (even this year). I would be amazed if the absence of prizes had a thing to do with the vote turnout.

    So, FWIW, here are some suggestions.

    1. Have a POTY for each of the five subject catagories under Shots.

    2. Have a grand final runoff to chose the grand winner out of the 5 winners. The Smithsonian's annual photo contest works like that, although they don't put it to a vote of subscribers!)

    3. Remind members every month or two during the year that photos they post on dgrin will be elegible for the POTY at the end of the year. This might encourage more postings and participation in the forums throughout the year, which would be a good thing.

    4. This may be counterintuitive, but it might help to shorten the voting time. Human nature being what it is, people decide that since they have time they'll do it tomorrow. Then tomorrow turns out to be one day too late.

    Virginia


    I like Virginia's idea a lot. I think it would draw in a lot more entries and/or voters. I was amazed at how many really great photographers did not enter. I encouraged one of my favorite entries...don't know if that person would have entered without encouragement or not. I am wondering why the entries had to be e-mailed in instead of direct posting them the way we have in the challenges? I'm sure there's a reason, but in viewing the original thread, it seemed a lot of people had problems with their entries arriving, or arriving fully intact as Andy was quite often trying to match up photos with owners. I know I mailed my entry in late and it never arrived. I wasn't too concerned as I only entered to participate and had no expectactions of winning. Perhaps the timing had an effect. January is a slow month and I know lots of people who take off and go on vacation. Maybe it's just the "after Holiday let-down"!!!! rolleyes1.gif
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    good suggestions everyone, we're taking notes nod.gif
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]


  • davevdavev Registered Users Posts: 3,118 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    I'll throw in 2 cents worth.

    I agree that I thought there should have been more entrees. Throughout the year, I've seen hundreds of photos on this site that would have put my shot at the bottom of the list. Why these people didn't enter, I don't know. Hopefully some of them will join in this thread to answer that question.

    I think one of the mistakes was to have it in the "The Big Picture" forum. The regulars that vote in the challenges either didn't find it in the sticky, (which I hardly ever look at after I've already read them) or they don't check out the forum by looking at the "New Stuff" menu. In over a year here, I've clicked new stuff twice.

    Thinking that categories will bring in more folks may or may not work. It may just divide the vote more so there's only 50 votes in a category. But that said, it may be worth a try.

    My proposal would be to suspend the regular challenge while this is going on. Make it the only game in town, and run it in the challenge area. The total time would be 2 weeks. The first week for entering shots, 4 days to narrow it down, 3 days for the final vote. This way there wouldn't be any over lap with any of the challenges. And like the regular challenges, just put the shots into a thread. That way there's no trouble with emails, and the participants can change their mind and change the photo that they entered.

    Even if it was a down year for entries and voting, It's still good to be king. :D
    A big thanks again to everyone involved.
    dave.

    Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    I think the winner from the previous year should not be allowed to enter in the next one-






    hah!-

    just kiddin', dave!-
  • photocatphotocat Registered Users Posts: 1,334 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    I had no idea of the POTY with digital grin. I only browse the site if I have loads of free time, because I always learn, and it is interesting to read the different threads. Of course, if you don't read for a couple of weeks, it is easy to miss the bumped threads.
    I always or mostly browse via New Stuff... And then mostly get to the second or third page, not much further then this...
    I don't know if I would enter that one, as I so far never won a weekly challenge, so what would make me a winner in the yearly one?
    Maybe it should be between the weekly challenge winners??? headscratch.gifheadscratch.gifheadscratch.gif
  • davevdavev Registered Users Posts: 3,118 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    photocat wrote:
    I had no idea of the POTY with digital grin. I only browse the site if I have loads of free time, because I always learn, and it is interesting to read the different threads. Of course, if you don't read for a couple of weeks, it is easy to miss the bumped threads.
    I always or mostly browse via New Stuff... And then mostly get to the second or third page, not much further then this...
    I don't know if I would enter that one, as I so far never won a weekly challenge, so what would make me a winner in the yearly one?
    Maybe it should be between the weekly challenge winners??? headscratch.gifheadscratch.gifheadscratch.gif

    P.S. The shot of mine didn't win a challenge either. Came in second.
    dave.

    Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
  • lynnesitelynnesite Registered Users Posts: 747 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    I also was surprised by the "missing" entries from frequent flyers here. Some reported trouble with the e-mail system. I much prefer the current challenge method of having them in a thread here. I don't think the number of entries was about prizes, shoot, over at dpchallenge, we compete super-hard for a virtual ribbon! Their "best of 2006" has 700+ entries! There have been 250+ votes on my image there so far.

    Do favor the idea of categories as a 1st round and no other challenges occuring. That might help get the missing folks out of the woodwork.

    Very stunned by the few voter-turnout. But wasn't about to "stuff the ballot box" by contacting friends to vote, as that's unfair. Sad to say the prize idea for voting must be a powerful motivator.
  • ElaineElaine Registered Users Posts: 3,532 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    I check out DGrin every day, and I must say I was a bit confused at first where to go for the POTY entries and voting. As it is not technically related to the challenges, I can understand why it wasn't in there, yet maybe it would have had more visibility there?

    I agree that having POTY take a two-week challenge spot at the beginning of the year (unapposed by other challenges) sounds like a good idea. I also like the idea of categories and then an overall winner. Many people lamented the fact that we could choose only ONE picture, even in the early rounds. Having categories would at least allow you to choose more than one picture at the beginning. How do you compare a stunning landscape to a moving portrait?!

    I entered a shot that I knew had no chance of winning, but it was MY best picture of the year, so I threw it in the ring because I was able and it was fun to see my shot on the same page as so many greats! :D The idea of allowing nominations as well as self submissions may help improve the number of pictures included at the beginning, which may boost voter turnout in the end, even if that means an extra round at first to distill the group down to the primo shots.

    Elaine
    Elaine

    Comments and constructive critique always welcome!

    Elaine Heasley Photography
  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    Wow, Doc. Glad you asked that question. Lots of good feedback here.
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
  • Frog LadyFrog Lady Registered Users Posts: 1,091 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    I also really like the idea of suspending the regular challenges during the POTY voting and posting that poll in the challenge category.

    I also really like the idea of having separate polls for each of the main categories.

    But one thing I'm not sure how to address is the idea of forgetting over time. There are likely lots of good pictures early in the year that dgrinners have liked that may have kind of been forgotten by the end of the year. So what if we had a POTM (for each category?) with the winners automatically entered in the POTY. Or if there was a sticky in each category titled "favorites" that could have photos added to over time... But also encourgage submission of other photos that are self-entered/nominated.

    just my $0.02.

    C.
    Colleen
    ***********************************
    check out my (sports) pics: ColleenBonney.smugmug.com

    *Thanks to Boolsacho for the avatar photo (from the dgrin portrait project)
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    DavidTO wrote:
    Wow, Doc. Glad you asked that question. Lots of good feedback here.
    Me too!

    So far, I think the strongest suggestion is to suspend the regular photo challenge at the end/beginning of the year and have an uber-challenge. I like it - as this is one of the few suggestions that gives the mods less to worry about at once! :D But that's not entirely selfish, it allows a better focus.

    We've had some backroom discussions about more than one vote in the early rounds, and I think that will most certainly be the case next year. So let me ask a question on that:

    What's better/easier for voters:
    1) a polling thread for each "category", one vote in each thread

    or

    2) an all inclusive list (could be quite large) w/multiple votes???
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]


  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    Frog Lady wrote:
    But one thing I'm not sure how to address is the idea of forgetting over time...
    I hear you on this, for sure, a very noble thought.

    However, can you imagine if we tried to keep track of all the good shots? Nevermind there would be hundreds, but if we "stuck" favorites somehow, who gets to decide? I think the current submission format (nevermind the technicality of email entry or whatever, for the moment) which is based on each user submitting the photo they think was their best, is the way to go.

    The dgrin POY shouldn't be a contest you have to qualify for. I would like to see POY stay prize-free, but as with most other things on dgrin, be a challenge to your own photography.

    I envision it as being advertised beter, more widely known, and having submissions start at least one month before, but I maintain that submissions should remain user-generated. From there, the selection is up for debate.
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]


  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    DavidTO wrote:
    Wow, Doc. Glad you asked that question. Lots of good feedback here.


    yeah, me too
  • davevdavev Registered Users Posts: 3,118 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    DoctorIt wrote:
    Me too!

    So far, I think the strongest suggestion is to suspend the regular photo challenge at the end/beginning of the year and have an uber-challenge. I like it - as this is one of the few suggestions that gives the mods less to worry about at once! :D But that's not entirely selfish, it allows a better focus.

    We've had some backroom discussions about more than one vote in the early rounds, and I think that will most certainly be the case next year. So let me ask a question on that:

    What's better/easier for voters:
    1) a polling thread for each "category", one vote in each thread

    or

    2) an all inclusive list (could be quite large) w/multiple votes???

    I think with a polling thread for each, it would allow a person to enter a shot into each of the categories. If we throw them all into one huge thread, the lines may be blurred on what category a shot belongs in.

    For instance, someone could enter a shot of a person walking down the street. Does it belong in the street category, or the people category? And if it wins, how many people will complain that it didn't belong or represent the theme of that category. You know this is going to happen. You've seen it in the past with the regular challenges.

    If this changes into multiple categories, I think you need to run a vote for each one. Then maybe a runoff of the 5 or 6 winners to make up the King/Queen and their Court.
    dave.

    Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
  • saurorasaurora Registered Users Posts: 4,320 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2007
    I agree with the idea of suspending the current challenge during the POTY voting. I think that's the best idea yet. Also keep in mind that choosing your favorite among 30 -40 shots that carry the same Challenge theme is difficult enough. Place landscapes, portraits, sports, etc. all in one vote and it is terribly difficult. I can imagine that many viewers were unable to choose and thought they would take another look at a later time and may have never returned to vote at all.
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 20, 2007
    davev wrote:
    I think with a polling thread for each, it would allow a person to enter a shot into each of the categories...
    I don't think a person should be allowed to enter more than one photo in the POY contest. If we expect everyone to vote for a POY, you should have to think hard before you submit your own personal POY. That's the whole spirit of the thing, not some intricate, well thought out super-contest.
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]


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