hasta la vista.... "vista"

windoze · February 1, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Zg_8&mode=related&search=

The Mac OS is so cool IMHO. Vista is such a copy!

troy

marlinspike · February 1, 2007

Now I know why I don't like Vista and why even though I can get Vista Business for free I don't.

Speaking of copy cats...iPhone, meet LG KE-850.

LuckyBob · February 1, 2007

Now I'll grant that basically nothing is original anymore, but one thing that kind of bugs me about that was the remark about widgets; Microsoft has been experimenting with them (or a variant thereof, at the OS level) since at least November 2002. Longhorn's sidebar was the same basic mentality as the dashboard, except it was stuck on one side of the screen (which REALLY irritated me when I used it); XML based components to accomplish basic tasks. Yes, I do know about the old Desk Accessories, but still - it's not like Microsoft is directly copying 10.4 here...

That being said, I'm still not a huge fan of Vista

Edit: I spotted the dynamic photo thumb resizing feature in Longhorn 4008 also.

photodoug · February 1, 2007

but the world will become a HUGE fan of Vista shortly....we all know that. The market share is there and won't go away in ANY of our lifetimes. Hard to believe. A monopoly we don't want to stop.

LiquidAir · February 1, 2007

photodoug wrote:

but the world will become a HUGE fan of Vista shortly....we all know that. The market share is there and won't go away in ANY of our lifetimes. Hard to believe. A monopoly we don't want to stop.

That is not how I would characterize it at all. I suspect the vast majority of Windows users think of the OS is nothing more than tool to launch their applications. Few of them care about the differences between 2K, XP, Vista or MacOS X. My impression of the group reaction of Windows users is "Oh, no. We will have to upgrade again." I was a stick in the mud about the transition from 2K to XP and only upgraded when I bought new hardware. My transition to Vista will likely be similar: only when I have to.

cabbey · February 1, 2007

photodoug wrote:

A monopoly we don't want to stop.

Speak for yourself.

photodoug · February 2, 2007

LiquidAir wrote:

That is not how I would characterize it at all. I suspect the vast majority of Windows users think of the OS is nothing more than tool to launch their applications. Few of them care about the differences between 2K, XP, Vista or MacOS X. My impression of the group reaction of Windows users is "Oh, no. We will have to upgrade again." I was a stick in the mud about the transition from 2K to XP and only upgraded when I bought new hardware. My transition to Vista will likely be similar: only when I have to.

ya, but it WILL happen. Always does. And everyone gripes when the new one is thrust upon them. Same ol same ol. Waaaa. Get over it and learn the new OS. Folks do know it's the OS that let's them plug in all sort of stuff and load just about any software...with very reasonable results usually. OS does matter and everyone knows it. Ultimately it's the apps....but if you can't get 'em to install....friggin piece o crap.

Anyway, Vista on the right equip is so friggin cool and smooth. Time to embrace it.

photodoug · February 2, 2007

cabbey wrote:

Speak for yourself.

Only ever is my opinion. But the "we" I represented was the greater public that overwhelmingly chooses Microsoft operating systems...they made computers easy to use, plentiful in applications and relatively inexpensive.

NickSimcheck · February 2, 2007

LuckyBob wrote:

Now I'll grant that basically nothing is original anymore, but one thing that kind of bugs me about that was the remark about widgets; Microsoft has been experimenting with them (or a variant thereof, at the OS level) since at least November 2002.

I read somewhere that Widgets have been on Apples back burner since the late 1980's, and then after some other company re-introduced the idea as an add-on then finally apple pounced.

What I'm getting at is Windows copied the idea from some defunct company that came up with the same idea Apple had a long time ago.

BUT I feel that it's simply a upgrade, not unique feature of an OS. I mean, should we expect Windows not to use a mouse or have a desktop because Apple did it first?

I can't figure out who's side I'm on here

(mac

)

DavidTO · February 2, 2007

NickSimcheck wrote:

I read somewhere that Widgets have been on Apples back burner since the late 1980's, and then after some other company re-introduced the idea as an add-on then finally apple pounced.

What I'm getting at is Windows copied the idea from some defunct company that came up with the same idea Apple had a long time ago.

BUT I feel that it's simply a upgrade, not unique feature of an OS. I mean, should we expect Windows not to use a mouse or have a desktop because Apple did it first?

I can't figure out who's side I'm on here (mac )

No one used a keyboard and a screen before the Apple I. It was switches and lights. At least according to Wozniak, who claims he invented the use of the keyboard and screen.

DavidTO · February 2, 2007

photodoug wrote:

they made computers easy to use

Hah!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I deeply despise Windows dialog boxes. They're long-winded and end with Yes/No buttons, so I have to read a paragraph to decide what I want to do. Just one example, IMO, of how MS makes computers difficult to use.

On a Mac, the text is short, to the point, and the buttons tell you what you're about to do. Instead of Yes/No, you're offered choices like Save/Discard. Smarterer.

Richard · February 3, 2007

DavidTO wrote:

No one used a keyboard and a screen before the Apple I. It was switches and lights. At least according to Wozniak, who claims he invented the use of the keyboard and screen.

Please tell me you're kidding.

Edit: It might be true that no hobbyist toy had a video display before the Apple I. However, an obscure company named IBM introduced the 3270 video display terminal in 1972.

marlinspike · February 3, 2007

DavidTO wrote:

No one used a keyboard and a screen before the Apple I. It was switches and lights. At least according to Wozniak, who claims he invented the use of the keyboard and screen.

Well, the use of the keyboard on a computer started in 1948 with the Binac computer. Though I guess it wasn't a keyboard in the modern sense.

For that we have to go to December 1968 where a member of the Stanford Research Institute demonstrated a computer using a keyboard, mouse, and windows. Oh, and a word processor with copy and paste...the ability to save files (did even that damn IIe I used in elementary school have that?)
http://sloan.stanford.edu/mousesite/1968Demo.html Look at Clip 5. It even has some features in it's word processor that to the best of my knowledge Office 2003 doesn't have (drag and drop words with the mouse, the ability to recognize categories and sort previously written text by those categories).

So...Wozniak is as bogus as gaming on OS X

DavidTO · February 3, 2007

I wasn't kidding, Richard. That's what Woz said in his book. At least that's how I read it.

He must have been talking about home computers. That he found a way to make it cheap enough for home use. But I don't really know.

BigAl · February 3, 2007

photodoug wrote:

they made computers easy to use, plentiful in applications and relatively inexpensive.

They did? Most of the easy to use stuff was developed by people who couldn't stand how MS operating systems worked. MS then incorporated those things into the OS.

BigAl · February 3, 2007

DavidTO wrote:

No one used a keyboard and a screen before the Apple I. It was switches and lights. At least according to Wozniak, who claims he invented the use of the keyboard and screen.

I hope you aren't quoting from his book...

That has to be the most appalling bit of English literature in hard copy. If you can't follow the sentence construction, how can you believe the content?

[edit]Sorry, I missed your last post. The way the book is written is like sms-speak. I couldn't get past the first 10 pages.[/edit]

S_Leeper · February 3, 2007

photodoug wrote:

Only ever is my opinion. But the "we" I represented was the greater public that overwhelmingly chooses Microsoft operating systems...they made computers easy to use, plentiful in applications and relatively inexpensive.

Most don't choose... they go to buy a new computer & the only option they have, short of getting an Apple, is to get a Microsoft OS installed.... Two primary reasons.
1. MS & the sellers make it easy to get MS... it's there, it can be preinstalled, etc.
2. They are so afraid that if they get something else it their programs won't work right...

Very similar to Intel vs AMD... you have to look around to get a pc with AMD... (I prefer amd, but my current is intel)

#1 is my reason... If ANYBODY made it easy to get their os on a new machine I would consider them... I've been using pc's from the osborne days (early 70's) & suffered through ms's abuse with dos & early windows, but at least now it is at a point where I turn on the computer & use the program & (generally) don't have to jerk around with the os system... & that's all I ever really wanted :-)

marlinspike · February 3, 2007

S_Leeper wrote:

Very similar to Intel vs AMD... you have to look around to get a pc with AMD... (I prefer amd, but my current is intel)

There is one area where intel is clearly better though - mobile laptops (as opposed to always plugged in laptops). Same goes for ATI video cards instead of nVidia.

Harryb · February 3, 2007

DavidTO wrote:

I deeply despise Windows dialog boxes. They're long-winded and end with Yes/No buttons, so I have to read a paragraph to decide what I want to do. Just one example,

I understand David, maybe this will be of some help to you. :ivar

marlinspike · February 3, 2007

Harryb wrote:

I understand David, maybe this will be of some help to you. :ivar

BWAHAHAHAHA! If only we could get you to use Canon.

photodoug · February 3, 2007

S_Leeper wrote:

Most don't choose... they go to buy a new computer & the only option they have, short of getting an Apple, is to get a Microsoft OS installed.... Two primary reasons.
1. MS & the sellers make it easy to get MS... it's there, it can be preinstalled, etc.
2. They are so afraid that if they get something else it their programs won't work right...

Very similar to Intel vs AMD... you have to look around to get a pc with AMD... (I prefer amd, but my current is intel)

#1 is my reason... If ANYBODY made it easy to get their os on a new machine I would consider them... I've been using pc's from the osborne days (early 70's) & suffered through ms's abuse with dos & early windows, but at least now it is at a point where I turn on the computer & use the program & (generally) don't have to jerk around with the os system... & that's all I ever really wanted :-)

what OS did you choose?

xris · February 3, 2007

BigAl wrote:

They did? Most of the easy to use stuff was developed by people who couldn't stand how MS operating systems worked. MS then incorporated those things into the OS.

For what it's worth: First version of the Mac OS was licensed from Xerox. It's PARC research campus pioneered the mouse/icon UI. Long before Gates/Allen introduced MS DOS.

The Apple 1 was the first to 'popularize' the MICROprocessor with a CRT and a keyboard -- but is has nada to do with the Mac. Apples first version of that was called the Lisa. A beautiful piece of work! (With -- get this -- an optional 5 MB hard disk!!!) The Mac, for the record, was probably the last watershed development in PCs. It was truely Earth shattering in its day!

But many college students and industry types were using a CRT/keyboard interface on various mainframes at least 15 years before that.

And let's not forget the Commador Vic 20, 64 and Amiga which gave Apple a real run for the money in those days -- before the IBM PC buried them alive.

Anyway. No matter how you slice it, the OSes are now all basically the same these days - various renditions of Unix, tweaked and twisted for propritary reasons. The difference is in the user. Pepsi vs Coke. Mac users see their box as an extension of themselves. Computing is FAR more personal to them. Windows users are do-as-yer-told mainstreamers. Unix users are hard-core industry types with very specialised apps. And the Linux users are the geeks.

Every one of them is right. Because it's really all just a matter of perspective.

In the end, though, (and not in the too-far-distant future) the OS will get stashed behind the scenes and we'll all just choose the UI we feel comfortable with for the device at hand.

But for the record, I think you'll find the MS is the only player that owns its OS kernel lock, stock, and barrel. An that could become a major business advantage.

cabbey · February 5, 2007

marlinspike wrote:

So...Wozniak is as bogus as gaming on OS X

I may not have the time to game much anymore, but I still have, and enjoy playing, a pile of games for my mac. Lego Starwars, Halo, Never Winter Nights (and all of it's expansions), several starwars games are all on my shelf... plus there is (World of) Warcraft, myst, civ, and a pile of bubblegum titles that drive me insane, but are some people's choice... the list goes on and on. They may not be the easiest to find in Best Buy or Walmart, but it's not impossible to find some.

xris wrote:

But for the record, I think you'll find the MS is the only player that owns its OS kernel lock, stock, and barrel.

In the desktop space, yes. In the enterprise space... not hardly.

An that could become a major business advantage.

Or a HUGE liability.

cabbey · February 5, 2007

(is it just me, or does this entire thread feel like WHBT, HTH, HAND is in order?)

Nikolai · February 5, 2007

Translation

cabbey wrote:

(is it just me, or does this entire thread feel like WHBT, HTH, HAND is in order?)

For non-English speakers and non-geeks:

WHBT: We Have Been Trolled
HTH: Hope This Helps
HAND: Have A Nice Day

HTH:-)

S_Leeper · February 5, 2007

photodoug wrote:

what OS did you choose?

I got what was on the shelf & ready to roll came preloaded, XP home.

This machine was a quick replacement... my old computer died suddenly & I was leaving town for several weeks, part of which was for vacation. I like to bring my laptop to download pics & look them over at the end of the day with my wife...

Ironically, last week I stripped out the hard drives (80 & 40) from a box that I had "upgraded" several times from a 386, to early amd pentitum equivalent. Always had to use dos or windows to be compatable with work, except for one year where my job used the IBM os... needed to upgrade memory or get a new machine... I spang for the bucks & got the cheapest computer I could find for the wife & kids... no dbf's, large spreadsheets, or even pics get processed on it, only the ocassional letter & internet.

For the last 10 years I've been into the "easy" part... if things don't work then I generally don't use... too many other things to do.

LuckyBob · February 5, 2007

marlinspike wrote:

There is one area where intel is clearly better though - mobile laptops (as opposed to always plugged in laptops). Same goes for ATI video cards instead of nVidia.

ATI/nVidia's debatable...

nVidia's currently got the only DX10 cards, and the fastest cards to boot. There are certain price points where ATI's king, but I wouldn't say anybody's a clear winner at this point, unlike with laptop processors (Intel Core series).

windoze · February 6, 2007

windoze wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Zg_8&mode=related&search=

The Mac OS is so cool IMHO. Vista is such a copy!

troy

anybody who knows me knows that i have no sense of humor. i dont laugh at comedies coz i dont find them funny. but the new get-a-mac ad makes me bust out laughing....
the new security one about Vista is so funny IMHO
check out the Security ad.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/

troy

Pupator · February 6, 2007

windoze wrote:

the new get-a-mac ad makes me bust out laughing....
the new security one about Vista is so funny IMHO
check out the Security ad.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/

troy

I laughed at the first one or two of these - but since then almost all of them have grossly and purposely misrepresented the truth (lied) and I'm not sure I can find misleading advertising targeted at an audience that doesn't know any better funny.

marlinspike · February 6, 2007

windoze wrote:

anybody who knows me knows that i have no sense of humor. i dont laugh at comedies coz i dont find them funny. but the new get-a-mac ad makes me bust out laughing....
the new security one about Vista is so funny IMHO
check out the Security ad.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/

troy

I got a chuckle from the last line of the security guy. However, that's the best response one of those ads has ever gotten out of me. What kind of company actually chooses to be represented by some grungy long hair who needs a shave? They're both dorks, but at least the PC guy is a dork who knows how to keep his shirt tails tucked in.

marlinspike · February 6, 2007

Pupator wrote:

I laughed at the first one or two of these - but since then almost all of them have grossly and purposely misrepresented the truth (lied) and I'm not sure I can find misleading advertising targeted at an audience that doesn't know any better funny.

Well, if the Vista security is like Windows AV (or whatever it was called) Beta 1, then the commercial is kinda true....if it's more like Windows Defender Beta 2 as every review says, yes the security ad is bogus.

hasta la vista.... "vista"

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