Messed up at prom pictures and need help!

erikadorie

I took some pictures for prom. The dad was continually wanting them to stand in the sunlight causing shadows across their faces. I kept trying to graciously put them in the shade but after awhile I gave up on trying to be polite. I'm now stuck with several terrible exposures that I haven't learned how to fix. Can some people please take a look and edit these and teach me what I can do to fix the rest of them? Thanks so much. The pictures are located in my smugmug website. Here's the link.

http://erikadorie.smugmug.com/gallery/2760010

dragon300zx

"I'm sorry sir but remember when I told you we shouldn't have the kids in the sun, but instead should have been shooting them in the shade? Well this is why......"

Where you using a fill flash at all? Did you shoot in raw? What software do you have?

erikadorie

I have elements but I also have a plug in for curves (and don't yet know how exactly to use it). I have a canon 30D and I'm pretty sure but not 100% that I shot in JPEGs? There's a few shots I didn't download I can use that I was closer and used fill flash, but I need help with these if anyone can.

hesaias

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/2302389

This is a good tutorial you can use to help. If I were you, I would remind the father he requested the shots against your advice if he complained or balked at them, that or charge him for the excessive retouching you will have to do to fix them.

Always shoot RAW when you are doing shots for a job. It gives you much more leeway in postprocessing.

As far as fill flash, ETTL will really blast the highlites, so you probably wanna go manual and start at the lowest setting and ease it up until you get a good balance.

If you would like, I can see if I can bring the shadows up some in CS2, just let me know. I am by no means a PS expert, but I can give you a hand.
I think the shots are fixable, it may just take a bit of work.

erikadorie

How do I shoot in RAW? I'm sorry I just got my digital camera in September and I'm learning everyday still. Can you also tell me why it's better and gives more leeway? I am curious to the reasons. It would be great if you did some touch ups! Thanks

Thank you for the link, it's great!!!

hesaias wrote:

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/2302389

This is a good tutorial you can use to help. If I were you, I would remind the father he requested the shots against your advice if he complained or balked at them, that or charge him for the excessive retouching you will have to do to fix them.

Always shoot RAW when you are doing shots for a job. It gives you much more leeway in postprocessing.

As far as fill flash, ETTL will really blast the highlites, so you probably wanna go manual and start at the lowest setting and ease it up until you get a good balance.

If you would like, I can see if I can bring the shadows up some in CS2, just let me know. I am by no means a PS expert, but I can give you a hand.
I think the shots are fixable, it may just take a bit of work.

gmonkeh

Why don't you post a couple of higher res images without the watermarks and I'll give it a go.

erikadorie

How do I make them higher res? I think I've taken the watermark off but I'll double check. Thanks

gmonkeh wrote:

Why don't you post a couple of higher res images without the watermarks and I'll give it a go.

SitterS

One of the biggest advantages for me shooting RAW instead of JPEG is it allows me to adjust my exposure and white balance if I am off. WB is something I still struggle with sometimes. Much better with it when I take the time to set my custom WB using a grey card but that does not happen often. My exposure is much better than it use to be as I have learned to watch my histogram but it is still nice to be able to adjust if you are off.

I was a little reluctant to go from JPEG to RAW but really it is not a big deal. Give it a try

Shane

saurora

This is one of my all-time photographic pet peeves having someone else attempting to be in charge of directing how people pose or telling them to "smile" when I am hoping for a more natural expression. Hopefully you will give some thought as to how to respond the next time this happens because it will happen over and over. I had an instructor who once said "Never take a photograph that looks bad through the lens and hope that miraculously it will somehow turn out better..........it isn't going to happen." I would have politely told him the sun creates ugly shadows requiring costly post-processing and let it go at that . Turn a deaf ear if necessary. You can always let him know your equipment (lens and flash) are designed to overcome and enhance shots taken in the shade. Better luck next time, because you don't want to be spending this much time processing and the client will probably blame you for not knowing what you are doing.

brandofamily

erikadorie wrote:

I took some pictures for prom. The dad was continually wanting them to stand in the sunlight causing shadows across their faces. I kept trying to graciously put them in the shade but after awhile I gave up on trying to be polite. I'm now stuck with several terrible exposures that I haven't learned how to fix. Can some people please take a look and edit these and teach me what I can do to fix the rest of them? Thanks so much. The pictures are located in my smugmug website. Here's the link.

http://erikadorie.smugmug.com/gallery/2760010

I use NIkon gear, not sure what you are using, but I process my RAW files using Nikon Capture 4 and it does a real nice job bringing up the shadows w/ a feature called d-lighting. If you save your files as TIFF, assuming your shooting Canon, you can download a trail version from Nikon USA and give it a try...

Here's my quick and dirty edit...

Seneca

I always shoot RAW. You will never have to worry about controling your WB again.

I can try and work on a couple for you...but I need a better link than what you have provided.

Remember as a photographer you are in command. I realize the dad suggested you shoot those picture the way he wanted...but ultimately, you are the one with the camera...and just tell him you believe that to not be a good ideal.

I hate people who are so bossy and I realize you were just trying to be polite...but just next time tell them..."Ummm can we talk...listen....I really don't think this is a good idea...let me take a couple and show you why"...

Scott_Quier

saurora wrote:

This is one of my all-time photographic pet peeves having someone else attempting to be in charge of directing how people pose or telling them to "smile" when I am hoping for a more natural expression.

No fooling. This is something that I am starting to have to deal with.

saurora wrote:

I would have politely told him the sun creates ugly shadows requiring costly post-processing and let it go at that . Turn a deaf ear if necessary.

I been thinking of using something very similar to this. In addition, how about, "I'm going to finish up here, doing the photos the way I was taught and know will work and then we will do them your way as well. Extra exposures don't cost me anything so we'll do it both ways. OK?"

Of course, Dad is going to come back with something about time running short.... You just can't win!

brandofamily

Just go to the gallery, view original, right click and save as....

erikadorie

How do I give you a better link?

So for everyone else's comments I should just take charge because I really do know what I"m doing. Funny to hear when I got to work that the girl in the yellow said her dad developed some of the pictures that he took. First thing she mentioned was how they were squinty eyed in those same shots!!! Next time I'll just listen to myself! Thanks for the polite suggestions.

Seneca wrote:

I always shoot RAW. You will never have to worry about controling your WB again.

I can try and work on a couple for you...but I need a better link than what you have provided.

Remember as a photographer you are in command. I realize the dad suggested you shoot those picture the way he wanted...but ultimately, you are the one with the camera...and just tell him you believe that to not be a good ideal.

I hate people who are so bossy and I realize you were just trying to be polite...but just next time tell them..."Ummm can we talk...listen....I really don't think this is a good idea...let me take a couple and show you why"...

Swartzy

Yea, those nasty shadows
I did a few quick things here but with the originals I'd spend a bit more time. I'd lower the overall exposure on the background than done here (on my version) for a better all around look.

Here's the two..first being your original:

Scott_Quier

Swartzy,

Nice job. You've supplied fish for a day. How about teaching us how to fish?

Mike02

Answer; Never listen to the dad! Especially when he's not a photographer! lol.

Swartzy

Thanks Scott

Scott_Quier wrote:

Swartzy,

Nice job. You've supplied fish for a day. How about teaching us how to fish?

Ok....here is the quick and dirty...I'll explain below the screen shot



Since I wanted the background a bit richer I did a couple layer masks and painted those back in. Now for the explanation:

There are numerous ways around underexposed areas of photos as I'm sure you all know. One simple way is to duplicate the original layer and change the mode to screen...adjust the opacity or create a layer mask, focusing on the areas you want lighter and paint those in. You can use a 100% opacity on the brush and then lessen the opacity of the layer or change the opacity of the brush or...do both. I typically will do both as the look reveals itself as it progresses.

On this particular shot, because of the uneveness of highlights/shadows/background, I ran an action called Sheri's classic highlight/shadow. You can find this on Action Central (the website). Many times this action will give an overall pinkish hue to the photo but there are things that can be done for that. What we want is the pop without the shot looking superficial.

Here, I ran the action, then adjusted the opacity of those individual layers (highlight/shadow). Then I added a curves layer and changed the mode to Luminocity. Adjusting the opacity on the curves layer along with pushing the curve up just a tad. I then added a mask to the curves layer and painted in the background....when you add a mask, it by default is white..so I chose the letter "D" (to make my foreground and background black & white respectively) then made sure the foreground color was black (hitting "X" will toggle these). Choose "B" for brush then start painting all the areas you don't want the curves layer to affect.

Then as you see above, the same method was applied to the shadows layer. On this layer's mask, I used a 45% opacity brush strength so it wouldn't be over done. You can go over areas again to repeat the process which will allow the incremental adjustment to your liking.

Like I mentioned.....if I were to work on these for clients, I'd have the original and try a couple techniques comparing side by side. I do this for B&W conversions as well. This way the eye has a comparison to work with. Since I'm using PS7 (yea, I know) those wonderful features of CS2 (shadow/highlight filter) aren't available for my post work..so, went to plan "B" and run actions as necessary. Some I create..some someone else has made readily available.

This is just one example that may or may not work for another shot..but this approach is typically my first attempt at those pesky underexposed portraits.

brandofamily

Never heard back, how'd I do w/ my attempt using NC4? (Post #10)

erikadorie

You did a really good job thank you. I guess I didn't realize that I was supposed to respond (Sorry I'm still pretty new at all this!) I'd like to give it a try myself. Where can I download that trial at?

brandofamily wrote:

I use NIkon gear, not sure what you are using, but I process my RAW files using Nikon Capture 4 and it does a real nice job bringing up the shadows w/ a feature called d-lighting. If you save your files as TIFF, assuming your shooting Canon, you can download a trail version from Nikon USA and give it a try...

Here's my quick and dirty edit...

dragon300zx

Erika,

Please understand that although what I am about to say may come off rude, I have no intention of being rude. I say what I say out of hoping it will help you fly and not fail like many others have.

I think you really need to take a step back and study photography, and this industry as well before telling people you're a pro, and trying to start a photography business. Your comments alone in this thread tell us you don't know what you need to, to be trying to do what you are doing.

"You must learn to walk before you can run"

Please don't doom yourself to failure, and put a smudge on "photography" in general by charging to do something you aren't qualified for. If this is what you love and want to do, great. But learn about it and get qualified to do it first. Just having a camera doesn't mean you are a pro. Especially if you don't know how to put the camera into raw, properly use fill flash, do your own photo processing, tell the customer the right way to setup a photo, etc.

You say you really do know what you're doing but from what you have said you really don't sound like you know your equipment, your software, or your business.

I'm sorry to be harsh but if you don't go into this knowing the basics, knowing your gear, knowing what you need to do, then you will most likely fail, and if you don't you will struggle and hurt your reputation along the way. That isn't the right way to build a business, career, or life.

The good news is that you're in the right place to learn more about photography and we're all glad to help. Really.


:dragon

mdaugher1811

Erika,

I thought I would give it a quick try using PS CS3. Recovering shadows and hightlights is always interesting....it's an tradeoff between time and value.:D

Andy

I am correcting all of these shots for you, standby, I'll have a gallery uploaded soon.

Some great advice in this thread - take all of it....

brandofamily

erikadorie wrote:

You did a really good job thank you. I guess I didn't realize that I was supposed to respond (Sorry I'm still pretty new at all this!) I'd like to give it a try myself. Where can I download that trial at?

You can find NIkon Capture at
http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=61

30 day trial...

Andy

erikadorie wrote:

The dad was continually wanting them to stand in the sunlight causing shadows across their faces. I kept trying to

Rule #1 - YOU are the photogapher. YOU make the decisions.

Andy

Andy wrote:

I am correcting all of these shots for you, standby, I'll have a gallery uploaded soon.

Some great advice in this thread - take all of it....

I ran them through I2E, they're better but still not great
http://erikadorie.smugmug.com/gallery/2765544#147155293

Remember, photography is about light. Quality of light. If nature's not giving it to you, you have to control it. There's really no postprocessing that can make these photos "good," only less "bad" and I hope you'll take this constructively...

Holler with questions! We will all be here for you.

erikadorie

I understand what you are saying. I do need to learn my equipment better, but I am on the internet reading forums everyday, taking my camera as often as I can. I have not told anyone that I'm a pro. I simply say I am a freelancer. I am not going to go to school for something like this, I'm sorry. I do realize that people that do big into this field have all kinds of training and schooling, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking to progress. I like to take pictures. I enjoy it alot. Most of the work I have done has been for family and friends and for my practice. I think you are judging me a little under what I should be judged. I'm one of those kids that jumps into a sport knowing little about it, but wins the coaches heart because of his effort and strife to improve. I'm not walking around saying I know it all. Hence as you said I'm here searching, reading, asking, doing. To me that's the most important part.....doing. I'm not sitting back and looking at other websites hoping to be set up like that one day I'm out there getting set up! I know my reply is going to sound like a fight back, but I'm defending myself and what I believe. I'm trying hard and I appreciate your comment, beause it's only going to make me better. And I'm sorry I won't take a step back only steps forward. What progress would I be making with backwards steps?

dragon300zx wrote:

Erika,

Please understand that although what I am about to say may come off rude, I have no intention of being rude. I say what I say out of hoping it will help you fly and not fail like many others have.

I think you really need to take a step back and study photography, and this industry as well before telling people you're a pro, and trying to start a photography business. Your comments alone in this thread tell us you don't know what you need to, to be trying to do what you are doing.

"You must learn to walk before you can run"

Please don't doom yourself to failure, and put a smudge on "photography" in general by charging to do something you aren't qualified for. If this is what you love and want to do, great. But learn about it and get qualified to do it first. Just having a camera doesn't mean you are a pro. Especially if you don't know how to put the camera into raw, properly use fill flash, do your own photo processing, tell the customer the right way to setup a photo, etc.

You say you really do know what you're doing but from what you have said you really don't sound like you know your equipment, your software, or your business.

I'm sorry to be harsh but if you don't go into this knowing the basics, knowing your gear, knowing what you need to do, then you will most likely fail, and if you don't you will struggle and hurt your reputation along the way. That isn't the right way to build a business, career, or life.

The good news is that you're in the right place to learn more about photography and we're all glad to help. Really.


:dragon

hesaias

Erika
I will do some work on your shots following the steps on that tutorial and upload them for you. I have found using layers is an incredible help, as well as an easy one once you understand the concept. Plug-ins are nice, but you can do just about any retouching without them. There is a good one by extensis for good midlevel photo fixing.

As far as the "business", you cannot win either way by trying to please everyone, so please yourself. Every word in this thread is true, but the more you shoot, the better you get. Shoot every type of photo, sports (little league is always fun) nature, people, places etc, and experiment. See what works and what does not work.

A good step I am going to take is a community college class in digital photography. Less the $200 and not very long. If I learn one good tip, its worth it.

As far as selling your work, if you are not happy with the shot, do not sell it, no matter how they beg. That shot is associated with your name, and thus your work. You know what looks good and what does not. I do not even show the shots I don't like to anyone. I edit them and experiment with them, but if I am not happy with the shot, nobody ever sees it. I save it for my own benefit though.

take a gander through your booklet that came with your camera and play around with the settings. You will learn it pretty fast. Shoot on Apperature priority or manual. That can be daunting, but if you understand that the smaller the apperature NUMBER is, the more light you get AND the shallower the depth of feild is, and thus you can shoot with a faster shutter speed, it won't take long until you are comfortable shooting excluisively like that.

Don't forget, take pictures for the joy of doing it.

dogwood

saurora wrote:

This is one of my all-time photographic pet peeves having someone else attempting to be in charge of directing how people pose or telling them to "smile" when I am hoping for a more natural expression. Hopefully you will give some thought as to how to respond the next time this happens because it will happen over and over. I had an instructor who once said "Never take a photograph that looks bad through the lens and hope that miraculously it will somehow turn out better..........it isn't going to happen." I would have politely told him the sun creates ugly shadows requiring costly post-processing and let it go at that . Turn a deaf ear if necessary. You can always let him know your equipment (lens and flash) are designed to overcome and enhance shots taken in the shade. Better luck next time, because you don't want to be spending this much time processing and the client will probably blame you for not knowing what you are doing.

This is something you'll deal with over and over and over with clients. The strategy I use is to shoot it the way they want, but I also make sure to shoot it the way I know will look best. Nine times out of ten, when they see your proofs, they'll choose the one you knew would work best. And they won't realize the crappy shots were their suggestions either-- as the late Kurt Vonnegutt wrote-- "so it goes".

dragon300zx

erikadorie wrote:

I understand what you are saying. And I'm sorry I won't take a step back only steps forward. What progress would I be making with backwards steps?

I'm not saying stop, I'm not saying retreat. I'm saying slow it down, stop trying to market it as a business, start shooting as much as you can to learn until you can be a business and a real freelancer. You may not understand it now but if you don't it will make your life harder. Believe me I know I have had my own company before and I did it your way and it was nothing but a problem. I have my own company now, doing it the other way (slowly, following the right steps, and others advice) and I promise you I am doing way better with this method than I was when I tried the brute force method.

BeachBill

erikadorie wrote:

I have not told anyone that I'm a pro. I simply say I am a freelancer.

I can't speak for others, but when I hear "freelancer" that pretty much means you are in the business and are therefore assumed to be a pro.