This competition vs original ideas and such

intentional_noise

Hi - complete newb and I expect to be slaughtered when I wake up in the morning, so that's ok - but part of me just had to type this.

In real life competition, with the big bucks, and yes I do know as I have submitted to them before, you don't have a clue what anyone else is submitting above and beyond your own imagination. Sure, on opening night, your ego could be annoyed at the judges that a similar entry made it through and yours did not - but you get over it and move onto the next challenge.

I love watching this competition unfold and am disappointed that I missed the first few, only finding it on the last day of LPS 2, but you know, watching it every day from afar as I have - I felt for people as this is becoming like a 'forum' competition and not a true competition.

Yes, ideas are always the same and yes, ten people will have the same flash bulb inspiration but it isn't before you in real life and should it be?

I had one idea for this comp and someone else did it better - I am thankful that they did as their version of my 'perhaps beeswax candles - elecrtrical something' was interpretted in a sensational way.

Sure - the other person that had the same idea should have every freedom to explore their creativity - this is not a slam - just a division between the fact that in a real life competition - you never see your competition so suffer no influence nor ill will

I have no emotional input into this at all but I DID feel for others this week

2 bobs worth - slam me away - I expect it

DoctorIt

intentional_noise wrote:

...I felt for people as this is becoming like a 'forum' competition and not a true competition.

Not quite sure I follow you.

The one comment above however, our forum has grown immensely thanks to this contest. Number of entries is growing steadily rather than a big explosion with a trickle down, which is very good.

As to similar ideas, well, that's life. In the end, all the similar ideas will lose, and the truly original one will win. Remember, the semifinal and final rounds of the LPS contest have no theme at all, it will be up to the best of the best to imagine a great photo and execute on it.

intentional_noise

No I agree with you on the growth side of things and what I meant by 'forum' competition was that people can view your entry!

This is a fantastic competition, and yes, all creative minds will think alike at some time or another, but in a real life competition, you don't have your adversaries in your face. You just allow your creativity to flow and that's that.

Yes it IS life, but the in your face bit can create the above worry about an entry as mentioned by another,and other things too.

Confidence in yourself? You don't only have to question your art, but your integrity as well.

Perhaps it is simply the way of the future with the internet, I don't know

JimW

If you’re saying what I think you’re saying, that the submissions should be anonymous, then I agree. I feel that all submissions in any contest should be anonymous. If I were a judge, which I’m not, I would want it that way. Because, then no one could have any question about a judge favoring someone they know, a buddy, over another submission.

Great forum, great contest, and I’m not complaining.

Just my two cents, or bobs. What’s a bob?

intentional_noise

Yes, JimW, as much as I love viewing them - for all things sake - I do wonder if this is the best option. --> bob is an aussie way of saying cents

DoctorIt

intentional_noise wrote:

...but in a real life competition, you don't have your adversaries in your face.

of course you do!

football players face each other face to face, coaches overhear each other. motorsports riders/drivers watch their opponents, tailing them like a hawk, waiting to pounce. marathoners draft each other forcing each other to keep pace. advertising companies sift through every previous advert ever submitted to a company for a shot at a new campaign. politicians dissect each other's public lives for that little edge to show they are better.

come on! competition is precisely face to face, and it ain't always pretty. those that get weak in the knees and need "safety" or "help" and "friendly" this or that, will perish. the best of the best is the same as the fittest to survive.

grrrrrrr, chew on that.

wildviper

While I see your point, I look at from another point of view. Being able to see what others are doing is pushing me harder to come up with something even better(if I can do that?? thats another question).

For better or worse, I am thinking more outside the box because I am able to see other's entries.

That's my 2cents!

intentional_noise

Where did I mention 'safety' 'help me' 'boohoo I am useless'??? and pass on the chewing on anything to be honest.

Yes competition is competition and of course you are competitive

but there are lines- and competitions, are not personal above and beyond being at the taste of the judges

Tentacion

Everyone's photo has a different view, perspective, and composition, you could enter 20 photos of eyeballs, glasses, etc., and not one of them will be the same, as we all perceive things differently.

Unfortunately, I just posted a picture which I considered my "Backup" pic as a last resort, for a just in case scenario for my original post , I was going to change it, as I noticed that someone else had posted something similiar, but if you really look at the techs of the photos they are not similiar, perspective, lighting, composition, framing, blah blah are all different, so I decided to leave it.

So I say, if you are pleased with your photo, then post it, and let the judges do their job!

I tend to agree with anonymous and maybe the photos should all be made visible precisely when the qualifying round ends, that way no squawks about copy cat compostions (that to me is catty anyways...sort of like..Nana Nanna Boo Boo, I posted my idea first)...That to me is total Crap...although sometimes it is true that the Student can outdo the Master, so if you have a better idea upon an idea that you may want to improve upon, then go for broke, where would the world be without more creativity...No airplanes, No Skyscrappers, NO BETTER CAMERAS or EQUIPMENT (now that would be a tragedy).......

but,

When you enter a contest you must read the rules, and if you are not in agreement, then you don't enter, that is the bottom line.

Hope this helps
DP

seastack

DoctorIt wrote:

Remember, the semifinal and final rounds of the LPS contest have no theme at all, it will be up to the best of the best to imagine a great photo and execute on it.

Doctor Doctor, didn't realize this and was actually wondering about it. Might be nice to clarify in rules thread for others wondering as well.

saurora

I have been quite amazed at the quality and inventiveness the entries have shown. I agree that baring your entry for all to see is unnerving, and can squash or shake your confidence if someone comes along and enters a superior image along the same lines as your idea (happened to me)....makes you want to take yours down, especially if you are unable time-wise to improve upon yours. But........it is obvious that the displaying of entries is a great learning tool. Viewing the quality has truly brought out the competitor in subsequent challenges. I believe the competition is beginning to meet the expectations of the organizers. I for one like the originality of this competition because it is so "out there" for all to see and view and discuss. Most of our lives are involved in one kind of competition or another and eventually (hopefully) a lesson learned. This new kind of photo competition is now offering us the "lesson learned" even if we don't win, which has not been available in contests of old. So in essence, even if we lose we still win.

intentional_noise

This is the thing though, you learn regardless. Every entry you make, you peruse the winners and see what the organisers like - do your own original twist next year as you know they will twist too.

That is an emotional journey and a positive learning curve because you submit and have 'no idea'.

I dont know, this theme and last one, I was a creative wasteland so was truly just revelling in others creativity, but watching this unfold - I had truly wished that all entries had been secret until the final day - so there was no influence or that oh &&%% that was what I did

I do appreciate the learning curve, just don't like the emotional trip for others - I do my own with chardonnay

intentional_noise

and get real on being an arsehole to make it in photography - sorry - you have to be prepared to produce what the customer wants/desires/tells you to do

but you don't have to be ruthless or lose your intergrity

sheesh

hardly politicians - pics are what exposes them - pics make footballers look great - advertising is lost without them

human - not machines - competitive for sure but get real

Tentacion

I agree that baring your entry for all to see is unnerving, and can squash or shake your confidence

Trust me I so totally understand what your talking about i.e., my original entry in lps4 that was posted !!! But trust me, my confidence is not shaken, a bit stirred, but I say ..."I'll worry about it tomorrow, for tomorrow is another day", cuz frankly..as per Rhett Butler..."Scarlett I don't give a damn"...

When I post a photo, I DON'T ask for help from the competitors, I go outside of the box, I seek a dis-attached party to review and discuss it...When I post my picture it was in my minds eye a good job and I am satisfied, no matter what the outcome, whether other's agree is irrelevant, cuz everyone has "opinions" and some may like and some may not...and that is just life, although I am not deaf to good advice and Constructive Critique !

Have a great day everyone, and thanks for the banter!

Donna P. :ivar

intentional_noise

In the real life outside of typing competition world Tentacion - your confidence would not even have a whisper - nor should it

You are not my point - nor is any individual shot

To enter into anything - people have thought, dug deep, or just got lucky and flipped it in - regardless of the 'prizes' most photographers compete for the challenge alone

Nobody should feel like crap is my point - until the end vote

LiquidAir

Each photographer gets to decide when they post their entry. I guess I see that as part of the game. If everyone decided to wait to 11pm Sunday to enter, we'd have a traditional competition and in a truely cut-throat competition that is likely what everyone would do.

Most of us, however, are I think really more interested in improving our photography than in winning. Because of that and the fact that many people are extremely generous with their comments it makes sense to post early. Personally, I don't really expect to win any of the major prizes. For me the reward is that process, peoples comments and the judging make me a better photographer. If someone copies one of my ideas and does it better than I did, I am going to learn quite a lot from the better image. From that standpoint, I think I win even if I lost.

Tentacion

intentional_noise wrote:

In the real life outside of typing competition world Tentacion - your confidence would not even have a whisper - nor should it

You are not my point - nor is any individual shot

To enter into anything - people have thought, dug deep, or just got lucky and flipped it in - regardless of the 'prizes' most photographers compete for the challenge alone

Nobody should feel like crap is my point - until the end vote

Not taking any offense to anything, I understand I am not your point, just expressing my thoughts, sometimes people relate to anothers thought process to better comprehend a situation, or maybe just so they don't feel alone...such as I relate to yours....it is quite true no one should ever feel like crap, but as well we all know, rejection of any sort can make you feel a bit miserable, we are of course of the human species eh?

I myself was very "thinned" skinned and many times wanted to just give up, but as you say, my confidence just makes me want to push that much harder forward bound, I have learned in the photography business to become a little "hard arsed" (for lack of better teminology..lol) because I cannot and will not crumble every time I get rejected. If someone comes up with a better photo of an idea, then it only means that I must strive next time to make my work better...which I think is what is happening here with this contest...the creative juices, the competiveness to shine is coming thru, well at least from my standpoint.

I agree, maybe better to have the photo entries visible on the last day of
of the qualifying round, this would avoid many "hurt" feelings and perhaps a lot of "drama". But as stated before, you read the rules before entering, so you take a chance and keep your fingers crossed for the best outcome.

Ok, I really must git, I probably sound like a babbling idiot now..

fashiznitsngrins

seastack wrote:

Doctor Doctor, didn't realize this and was actually wondering about it. Might be nice to clarify in rules thread for others wondering as well.

It was somewhere, as I remember having read it, but couldn't find it again when I wanted to...

Nikolai

Dear iNoise,

RE: Other entries:
if you feel that other entries may affect your capability to invent/execute, the cure is *very* simple - stay away from the Contests and Challenges branch until your own idea is rock solid and chizeled in stone.

RE: Anonymity, IRL, etc.
Make no mistakes, this is real life. And just like IRL, if there was a tender for a landscape print for a big corporate HQ and you and Marc Muench were competing, do you honestly believe you'd be judged on the same terms?
Life's not fair, never was and never will be. If you want to succeed, you gotta make your name working for you, too, it's gotta be a part of the package.

Bottom line (which has been said sooooo many times in this branch alone): stop compaining, go out and shoot!

Swartzy

Yea, what Dark Helmet said....

Nikolai wrote:

Dear iNoise,


RE: Anonymity, IRL, etc.
Make no mistakes, this is real life. And just like IRL, if there was a tender for a landscape print for a big corporate HQ and you and Marc Muench were competing, do you honestly believe you'd be judged on the same terms?
Life's not fair, never was and never will be. If you want to succeed, you gotta make your name working for you, too, it's gotta be a part of the package.

Bottom line (which has been said sooooo many times in this branch alone): stop compaining, go out and shoot!

Well stated oh, Dark One! rofl

DoctorIt

intentional_noise wrote:

Where did I mention 'safety' 'help me' 'boohoo I am useless'??? and pass on the chewing on anything to be honest.

Hey Noise, apparently I've touched on a nerve. I don't know where our misunderstanding was, I was just debating a point, a light one, I thought, but I guess I was wrong. I'll butt out now, and apologize for stirring things up.

sunione

MY 2 CENTS.....

I would prefer that all entries be kept from public viewing until after each contest ends and judging is complete. Then all entries could be displayed. I don't want to be annonymous but if anyone wanted to be I can see why they might and don't see a problem with that.

Those of us who are familiar with non-internet competition are used to getting to see the other's work only after all entries are in. I think it is a better method for many reasons. But the rules for LPS are what they are and I don't suggest that they should be changed. After all they were clear to start off.

Nikolai

sunione wrote:

I would prefer that all entries be kept from public viewing until after each contest ends and judging is complete.

Pray tell, what stops you from:

1. Posting your own work just a few hours prior to the deadline (seriously, no one is capable of duplicating some serious project under such a timeframe), and
2. Turning your head away from other's posts in this section?

This way you get what you want and those with different opinions get what they want, everyone's happy

padu

sunione wrote:

MY 2 CENTS.....

I would prefer that all entries be kept from public viewing until after each contest ends and judging is complete. Then all entries could be displayed. I don't want to be annonymous but if anyone wanted to be I can see why they might and don't see a problem with that.

Those of us who are familiar with non-internet competition are used to getting to see the other's work only after all entries are in. I think it is a better method for many reasons. But the rules for LPS are what they are and I don't suggest that they should be changed. After all they were clear to start off.

I agree with your point, and I made that point before LPS started, but it is what it is. The day I get annoyed with it, I'll just turn my back on it. So far I'm enjoying the competition.

Watching the first few rounds, I had to change my style though. Instead of working on my candidates on my own until the last minute, I decided to create a thread and have other members help me on my creation process. I guess I could see other members as if they were clients (except they are not the judges).

This change of style paid off on LPS4. I posted my first candidates early this week, and then yesterday someone posted an entry with a very similar idea as mine, we even PM each other and laugh about it. I looked at the exif and amazingly it was shot even before mine, and in this case it was pretty easy to realize that both of us made the shot without prior knowledge of the other's work.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that sharing your idea or posting your entry early on is cheap insurance against others stealing your idea. If they do, it is like what DoctorIt said, the judges will know (hopefully).
If the idea was better executed by the one copying it, kudos to him. I can understand the frustration of the original creator, but that should be an incentive to better execute the idea next time...

thebigsky

Well I have to say I'm pretty fed up, it seems I'm being accused of copying someone else's idea, which is so far from the truth it's almost amusing, however it's also insulting and quite irritating so perhaps there's some merit in the idea of entries being kept from public view until the deadline has passed.

Charlie

sunione

padu wrote:

Watching the first few rounds, I had to change my style though. Instead of working on my candidates on my own until the last minute, I decided to create a thread and have other members help me on my creation process. I guess I could see other members as if they were clients (except they are not the judges).

Not trying to burst your bubble but.....UMMM....can you be sure that others who are in competition with you are going to express an opinion that might mean you would beat their entry? Also, if others 'help you on your creative process', then whose work is it?

If this were just a "learning" competition I would agree with the concept of asking for comments prior to entering (there are plenty of those on the internet) but there is money and status involved here so it is a bit different. Yes? No?

tlee

thebigsky wrote:

Well I have to say I'm pretty fed up, it seems I'm being accused of copying someone else's idea, which is so far from the truth it's almost amusing, however it's also insulting and quite irritating so perhaps there's some merit in the idea of entries being kept from public view until the deadline has passed.

Charlie

Charlie,

Again, I am soooooo sorry. I want it well known that I did not (and still do not) think that you copied my idea. My concern was that someone might think I had done that to you. Next time I have a concern, I will be much smarter in my approach. I am sincerely sorry.

sunione

thebigsky wrote:

Well I have to say I'm pretty fed up, it seems I'm being accused of copying someone else's idea, which is so far from the truth it's almost amusing, however it's also insulting and quite irritating so perhaps there's some merit in the idea of entries being kept from public view until the deadline has passed.

Charlie

Charlie
If anyone thinks that you stole an idea that's quite petty. The theme is bound to trigger similar ideas. Try to let it "roll off". In any case anyone who fears being copied ought to hold there entry until Sunday evening.

I was pretty surprised when the entries started to come online for LPS#4, as my idea was similar to others already posted. However I did not change my plan. I get my ideas after I see what the themes are and before I look at any other entries so as not to be influenced.

Hopefully next year the rule will be changed to keep entries private until judging ends.

ChuckWC

sunione wrote:

Not trying to burst your bubble but.....UMMM....can you be sure that others who are in competition with you are going to express an opinion that might mean you would beat their entry? Also, if others 'help you on your creative process', then whose work is it?

If this were just a "learning" competition I would agree with the concept of asking for comments prior to entering (there are plenty of those on the internet) but there is money and status involved here so it is a bit different. Yes? No?

I have to say I agree with you on this.

I think there are two groups of people in this competition: those who see it more as a learning experience and less as a competition. So, they're open to helping others out in perfecting their photos and are just enjoying the fun of taking pictures.

On the other hand, those who care more about winning I suspect would be less inclined to share helpful tips. Even without hints/tips, I'm sure people would learn to improve their photography anyway, just by seeing which pictures are picked as the finalists and which are not.

I do find it rather curious when I read people giving very detailed advice on how to vastly improve a photo (crop it this way, lighten the left half, show more DOF, etc.) In giving such specific advice, I can't help but wonder who then is really creating the winning shot? The original poster or the one with all the expertise?

Again, there's nothing wrong in giving expert advice, I'm just surprised to see so much of it in a competition.

Anyway, I'll continue enjoying these threads... my comments shouldn't be construed as asking that anything be officially changed!

seastack

ChuckWC wrote:

I think there are two groups of people in this competition: those who see it more as a learning experience and less as a competition. So, they're open to helping others out in perfecting their photos and are just enjoying the fun of taking pictures.

On the other hand, those who care more about winning I suspect would be less inclined to share helpful tips. Even without hints/tips, I'm sure people would learn to improve their photography anyway, just by seeing which pictures are picked as the finalists and which are not.

You may be correct but I don't think it necessarily has to be either one or the other. For myself, I enjoy the competition, I'd like to win, and if I see a great image someone else has taken, I'll tell them; if they ask for comment and I have something to offer, I'll give it. I've done this in the real world with other photographers in other competitions as well, even going so far as to have pre-slide shows among a whole group of pros with critiques months before the submission deadline.

This all reminds me of the old joke:

Q: How many photographers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: 100. One to screw in the lightbulb and 99 to tell him how they could have done it better and cheaper.

Hey, if you can do it better, go for it.

padu

sunione wrote:

Not trying to burst your bubble but.....

No need for concerns, I don't live in one...

UMMM....can you be sure that others who are in competition with you are going to express an opinion that might mean you would beat their entry?

beg your pardon? the only thing I can be sure is that I am alive and I will die someday... but honestly, I don't understand what you trying to say here.

Also, if others 'help you on your creative process', then whose work is it?

Mine... I am in control of what suggestions to take or not, and I am ultimately pressing the shutter...

Do you make a commercial photographer the same question? He has assistants, he has an art director telling how the scene should look like and he has clients that also give input on his work. But who's creation is that photo?

If this were just a "learning" competition I would agree with the concept of asking for comments prior to entering (there are plenty of those on the internet) but there is money and status involved here so it is a bit different. Yes? No?

Again, I agree that entries should not be revealed until past the deadline, but that's not how it works. Instead of complain about it, I just use the system as it works.