LPS#7 Feedback Thread

Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in ResidencePosts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
edited July 1, 2007 in The Dgrin Challenges
This came in a PM today from urbanaries
  • In Hindsight. #63 Xia_Ke. The first time I looked at this image, I clutched my mouth. I have looked at it several times now and it haunts me more each time, brings me to tears. In fact I’m crying openly about it now as I write about it. I feel so much pain in this image, I find it difficult to move on and talk about my other selections. It definitely taps into my own pain for people close to me. The black marks on the wall represent an essential mystery in this shot. Does the man have a head wound and that’s his blood smeared along the side of the wall and he’s quietly dying...alone? Is that the devil himself escaping this man’s soul? First this image made me openly weep; and then it leaves me with unanswered questions. Brilliant.
  • Miss Wu Ling’s Flight #15 Hoofclix. A colorful, subtle yet exuberant image. The motion blur is perfectly executed, almost ethereal. Makes me feel light and hopeful. An abstract, Zen-like interpretation of joy; it resonates.
  • There Never Were Such Devoted Sisters #35 Indiegirl. What an intense dose of emotion here. I’m instantly hooked. Beautiful and heart wrenching. Hard to forget. I think the shrouded anonymity of the girls helps set this image apart.
  • The Joy of Victory #49 vt122. Can’t deny the joy here, its infectious. Those girls are stoked! Nice capture.
  • This Bird Has Flown #48 Nikolai. The contrast and lighting serve this poignant moment well. I felt the bittersweet sentiment here, for sure.
  • Just One Tear #42 Strikeslip. The abstract approach really works with this shot. Nice balance of blur and detail. Less is more….I love it.
  • Unfair #54 Nikos. The child is deeply feeling the pain rather than outwardly expressing it. The hand over the face underscores the internalization. There are no obvious tears, but the welling and the redness show its either brimming on the surface, or the storm has just passed. That question makes the shot. Nicely done.
  • Mom brought a Bug! #66 DrDane. What an amazing capture. All three mouths wide open, and that poor little bug….he’s definitely outta luck!
  • Alone #32 Flybynight. Had trouble with the staged-ness of this one but in the end it won me over. The neon sign really makes this shot. It’s very tastefully done, and I definitely feel the sorrow. The conversion is perfect, love the slight preservation of detail in the woman’s arm and hair.
  • The Umbrella Maker #13 Pemmett. How can you not reflect the joy in this man’s eyes? He’s clearly had a tough life but his outlook is apparent in his nature. I don’t think the heavy processing is necessary, but the man’s joy shines through nonetheless. Wonderful portrait.
She also added this very interesting note:
Thoughts on this round:

When I was a freshman in high school, I competed in a speech competition. Poetry was an event I thought I could pull off fairly easily. But after hearing my competition I was deathly afraid. All were incredibly polished, had these nifty little binders they opened and shut matter-of-factly, and had transitions and gestures memorized word for word, like robots. In comparison, I was just going to wing it, with my trite little poems I'd chosen on the topic of loss. I did a decent job of interpreting the works, but stumbled through my transitions, and was pretty sure I was dead last. I actually won first prize in that round, and advanced to the next. When I thought about it, I remembered a moment in a poem about a stillborn, where the judge put her forehead in her hand. I didn't think much of it at the time, but after I won that round (and was subsequently annihilated in the next) I knew that I had touched that judge, even though I wasn't the most polished or prepared competitor.

Sometimes folks around here pay a lot of attention to getting the exact dictionary connotation of the theme, or the exact millimeter of a crop, or the exact amount of contrast. Emotion isn't a formula. I wasn't sure I would actually BE MOVED in this round, but I was, and it was unforgettable, and cathartic.
Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
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Comments

  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    And some very nice feedback came in from schmooo

    1) Nikolai - This Bird Has Flown
    This was #1 for me because it was the only photo that, as soon as I looked at it (and even before I fully understood what was going on), I had tears in my eyes. The pose, the lighting, his expression, the empty window, and the outstretched hand say it all to me. I didn't even see the shape of the cap and gown at first, but when I did there was a second round of heartstrings pulled. I absolutely love photos that come around a few extra times to punch you, and this one is it. The title is also absolutely perfectly poetic and descriptive without giving too much away in the first hand.

    2) drdane - Mom Brought a Bug!
    I love this shot because it made me laugh out loud! Capturing expressions in animals makes the value of that emotion so much better, and the sheer instinctual joy of finally having food when you're a helpless baby bird is infectious. I can't help but humanize the ugly little things. Post-processing works well here: punchy colors that accentuate the sharpness of their open beaks. I even think the composition of the shot leads us up from the bottom corner to swoop right into their mouths.

    3) PaulThomasMcKee- The Exuberance of Flight
    A great shot of a great moment. I wondered how such a stunt was pulled off until I read the thread describing it, and it brought even more life to the picture. As a kid I remember loving being thrown around like this, too, so at the same time I feel joy in the boy's grin while being a bit sorrowful that I'm long past that stage in my life where I can experience something similar. The perspective of this photo is perfect, and packs a much better punch than a third party could have captured standing off to the side.

    4) saurora - Bee dazzling
    Another happy nature shot that made me smile right away! The clean background and the backlighting really accentuate the crazy-happy-yellow of the sunflowers. IMO you can't look at sunflowers and not smile, but to have a little bee fanning his wings into a blur in front makes me feel its excitement. The size discrepancy between the bees and the flower makes me think "happy gluttony!" I think all the negative space on the right works very well here, in the same vein.

    5) f00sion - Joy or Sorrow?
    This one is special to me because when I first heard the theme of this challenge, this concept of pregnancy was the first thing that came to mind. Such an important event can mean two completely different things to a person, and therein lies the mystery. Although I think the photo could have been executed a bit better (underexposed a touch? A fairly busy background), her pose and the placement of the mirror are perfect. I love the fact that she has no face and is wearing simple clothes. It does not look too "staged" to me, which is aesthetically and conceptually pleasing.

    6) leaforte - Fare Thee Well
    I remember seeing this shot in black and white in the People section and I really do prefer it in color. Graduation is such a momentous time, mixing joy and sorrow all together. I have a particular resonance with such mixed feelings myself and I think this candid shot of two friends in one of their final moments really hits home for me. I know that even though they may promise to keep in touch after this day it will never be the same. And it makes me wonder if they were roommates? Classmates? Acquaintances that were maybe just too busy during the semester to become better friends? Either way the photo is making me want to know more about them, which is a wonderful thing for a photo to do. The fountain and the clear blue behind them is also a nice backdrop, and the other graduates even farther in the distance. It is difficult to get a clean, well-composed candid street shot and this is very well done.

    7) Elaine - Sand Angel
    I think this is a lovely photo. Great post-processing, nice and clean and it shows the innocent joy of being on the beach. I think this is a great photo to look at but I also think that it lacks a storytelling aspect that would give it that extra "wow" factor.

    8) lynnsite - Sand Bath Bliss
    I find the lighting in this photo fantastic, and knowing how happy horses can get in a stretch of dirt this makes me smile. I can almost hear the grunting of satisfaction that comes right before this moment when the horse sits up and pretends that nothing has happened. The teeny foal looking at mom is probably wondering what's so great, which I find pretty darned funny! Overall the tones of the shot makes me feel relaxed and warm, which is the definition of happiness.

    9) StrikeSlip - Just One Tear
    A very abstract shot that I find pleasing and mystical. The muted tones and the darkness around the tear really bring the subject into the spotlight, literally. Part of me wants to know why she is crying, but the other part of me just doesn't really care because the focus is in the shape and tones themselves.

    10) tsk1979 - Will You Marry Me?
    Although I am not a big fan of selective coloring, this shot is clear and clean and the expression on her face is priceless. I am left wishing that there was something in the photo that I had to work harder to get, something a little bit less obvious, but nonetheless the emotion is there and the scene is clear and straightforward.
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • Xia_KeXia_Ke Big grins Posts: 90Registered Users Big grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    This came in a PM today from urbanaries
    • In Hindsight. #63 Xia_Ke. The first time I looked at this image, I clutched my mouth. I have looked at it several times now and it haunts me more each time, brings me to tears. In fact I’m crying openly about it now as I write about it. I feel so much pain in this image, I find it difficult to move on and talk about my other selections. It definitely taps into my own pain for people close to me. The black marks on the wall represent an essential mystery in this shot. Does the man have a head wound and that’s his blood smeared along the side of the wall and he’s quietly dying...alone? Is that the devil himself escaping this man’s soul? First this image made me openly weep; and then it leaves me with unanswered questions. Brilliant.

    And that was a self portait but, we'll touch on that another time :uhoh Thank you for the feedback and I'm glad it touched you as much as it did.
    Aaron Lehoux

    My Gallery

    "Challenge yourself! You will have days of discouragement and days of success, but the only way to fail, is to quit!" - Emily (Greensquared)
  • thebigskythebigsky Cloudbusting Posts: 1,050Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    (From Urbanaries)Sometimes folks around here pay a lot of attention to getting the exact dictionary connotation of the theme, or the exact millimeter of a crop, or the exact amount of contrast. Emotion isn't a formula. I wasn't sure I would actually BE MOVED in this round, but I was, and it was unforgettable, and cathartic.

    Fair point all though the flip side of that argument might be, what's the point in having themes if they're so loosely interpretted pretty much anything goes.

    Sorrow is a specific word used to define sadness at loss or bereavement not simply being unhappy or distressed, I singularly fail to see how closely cropped images of children crying emote sorrow.

    Given the simplistic approach it would have been better to have used the theme 'happy or unhappy.'

    Arrrgghh, I'm so angry with myself for entering again, I sometimes think I speak a different version of English to many others.

    Charlie
  • schmooschmoo word nerd Posts: 8,468Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    thebigsky wrote:
    Fair point all though the flip side of that argument might be, what's the point in having themes if they're so loosely interpretted pretty much anything goes.
    Charlie, I understand your thought but I think the most difficult part of artistic competition is to create something in a fresh way without losing the message in the execution. "Loose" is not necessarily the word I would use. "Innovative," maybe!

    It's true that children cry for a lot of reasons. The way I approach photos is looking inside myself and thinking about how viewing that image touches me.
  • TentacionTentacion Click On ! Posts: 940Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Sometimes folks around here pay a lot of attention to getting the exact dictionary connotation of the theme, or the exact millimeter of a crop, or the exact amount of contrast. Emotion isn't a formula. I wasn't sure I would actually BE MOVED in this round, but I was, and it was unforgettable, and cathartic.

    Hmmm kind of contradictory this thought, I wonder if Ansel thought the same way, when he would process 8 different frames to come up with one GREAT photo??

    Then why have a "Contest", why have "Themes"? You must understand the "Exact" connotation of the theme and make it excel...!!

    I thought this contest was to bring out the juices of the photographer in Creativity, Composition, and Techs, all that is involved in being a great photographer?

    Ok I'm a bit confused now with all of this after taking classes for all the technical aspects of photography, so I could understand the rules and break them artiscally, so that my photos would not be just considered "snapshots for the family album".

    Just my opinion...

    PS: Haven't some of the best photos posted here been badly critiqued due to Crop, Contrast, Not enough color too muted, Not enough or No focal point such as in panning images, No or wrong interpretation of the theme..so it is being said now that pictures were critiqued wrongly and now pictures are only being judged by what the judges "like"???
    You're only as good as your next photo....
    One day, I started writing, not knowing that I had chained myself for life to a noble but merciless master. When God hands you a gift, he also hands you a whip; and the whip is intended solely for self-flagellation...I'm here alone in my dark madness, all by myself with my deck of cards --- and, of course, the whip God gave me." Truman Capote
  • thebigskythebigsky Cloudbusting Posts: 1,050Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    schmooo wrote:
    Charlie, I understand your thought but I think the most difficult part of artistic competition is to create something in a fresh way without losing the message in the execution. "Loose" is not necessarily the word I would use. "Innovative," maybe!

    It's true that children cry for a lot of reasons. The way I approach photos is looking inside myself and thinking about how viewing that image touches me.
    There are either themes, or they are not themes, or there are themes that use language that is purposely non specific and open to interpretation.

    Interpretation however should not allow the bastardisation of language, sorrow is a specific form of unhappiness, if the judges were not looking for images portraying sorrow, then the theme should not have been sorrow.

    If you were to feel a sense of loss or bereavment viewing those images then fair enough, sympathy, empathy, sadness maybe, but not sorrow.

    Charlie
  • sherstonesherstone ½ here Vancouver Island, BC., CanadaPosts: 2,356Registered Users, Retired Mod Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    thebigsky wrote:
    Arrrgghh, I'm so angry with myself for entering again, I sometimes think I speak a different version of English to many others.

    Charlie

    Would you be angry if a judge had been moved enough by your wonderful smile to give you enough points to place in the top 10?

    It may be English but we all have a different perspective on what makes us feel happy or sad, joyful or sorrowful. That very fact is very evident in the few people that showed their top 10 picks before the official judges. Even the judges themselves had a wide spread of different likes and dislikes.


    A big thank you again to all the judges, I learn a great deal every time I read the feedback on all the images.
  • flybynightflybynight Big grins Posts: 11Registered Users Big grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    newbie question
    Newbie here with a question. Is the objective in these challenges too evoke say (sorrow or joy) in the judges, or is it to depict it in your entry?
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Well I don't know why you are angry at yourself for entering, I love your photo. It's awesome, and it was in my top ten. Would you have taken that photo had it not been for the contest? The photo is really very very good.
    thebigsky wrote:
    Arrrgghh, I'm so angry with myself for entering again, I sometimes think I speak a different version of English to many others.

    Charlie
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • thebigskythebigsky Cloudbusting Posts: 1,050Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    sherstone wrote:
    Would you be angry if a judge had been moved enough by your wonderful smile to give you enough points to place in the top 10?

    It may be English but we all have a different perspective on what makes us feel happy or sad, joyful or sorrowful. That very fact is very evident in the few people that showed their top 10 picks before the official judges. Even the judges themselves had a wide spread of different likes and dislikes.


    A big thank you again to all the judges, I learn a great deal every time I read the feedback on all the images.

    I don't want to fall out with you, but you've singularly failed to understand the point I'm making.

    Furthermore, part of the reason I'm angry, is because once you've entered a competition and lost, it's difficult to criticise that competition without accusations of sour grapes.

    I don't appreciate the ludicrous way in which the word 'interpretation' is bandied around in this competition and used as an excuse for entering images not related to the theme.

    Charlie
  • thebigskythebigsky Cloudbusting Posts: 1,050Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Well I don't know why you are angry at yourself for entering, I love your photo. It's awesome, and it was in my top ten. Would you have taken that photo had it not been for the contest? The photo is really very very good.

    I'm mostly angry because I've exposed myself emotionally to be judged in a contest where the rules or guidelines are regularly ignored or misinterpreted, I feel a sense of injustice.

    However I'm also angry because if I could put on my neutral hat I might read my own posts are 'interpret' them as sour grapes and they really aren't.

    Charlie
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    thebigsky wrote:
    There are either themes, or they are not themes, or there are themes that use language that is purposely non specific and open to interpretation.

    Interpretation however should not allow the bastardisation of language, sorrow is a specific form of unhappiness, if the judges were not looking for images portraying sorrow, then the theme should not have been sorrow.

    If you were to feel a sense of loss or bereavment viewing those images then fair enough, sympathy, empathy, sadness maybe, but not sorrow.

    Charlie

    Almost every word has many meanings and or nuances...

    Sorrow (Sor"row) (?), n.
    [OE. sorwe, sorewe, sor¿e, AS. sorg, sorh; akin to D. zorg care, anxiety, OS. sorga, OHG. sorga, soraga, suorga, G. sorge, Icel., Sw., & Dan. sorg, Goth. sa\'a3rga; of unknown origin.]

    The uneasiness or pain of mind which is produced by the loss of any good, real or supposed, or by disappointment in the expectation of good; grief at having suffered or occasioned evil; regret; unhappiness; sadness. Milton. "How great a sorrow suffereth now Arcite!" Chaucer. "The safe and general antidote against sorrow is employment." Rambler.

    Synonyms -- Grief; unhappiness; regret; sadness; heaviness; mourning; affliction. See Affliction, and Grief.Sorrow (Sor"row), v. i.
    [imp. & p. p. Sorrowed (?); p. pr. & vb. n. Sorrowing.]
    [OE. sorowen, sorwen, sorhen, AS. sorgian; akin to Goth. sa\'a3rgan. See Sorrow, n.]

    To feel pain of mind in consequence of evil experienced, feared, or done; to grieve; to be sad; to be sorry. "Sorrowing most of all . . . that they should see his face no more." Acts xx. 38. "I desire no man to sorrow for me." Sir J. Hayward.
    Free your mind :D
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • thebigskythebigsky Cloudbusting Posts: 1,050Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    No, I don't buy it Shay, and can I just point out before anyone gets the wrong idea, two of the images of unhappy children, by I think Nikos and Indiegirl are both considerably better photographs than mine and both also evoke greater emotion than mine, but that emotion for me is not sorrow.

    I strive to take pictures as good and emotive as those and maybe once I can, I'll expose myself again to being judged.

    Charlie
  • HoofClixHoofClix HoofSational! Posts: 1,156Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    It is a wide range of opinions on how to express the theme in a single photo as well as a wide range of interpretations on how folks are interpreting the entries. I only got in on this thing starting in Round 6, and I can say difinitively that I would not have taken either of my entries had I not been trying to shoot to the theme. But that's the point. For me, having shot over the past year some 120,000 photos at 40 horse shows of animals jumping over wooden poles, it was refreshing to have something to get me focused on the more artistic side. I am excited and appreciative to have been included in the 10 finalists in Round 7, but more importantly, in getting that photo, I spent a great Sunday in a park taking lots of photos of a lot of things, some of which are better photos than my entry, but now I have some things to work with! Should I be upset that mine wasn't more unanimously approved? No way. Should I now go try to tailor make my entry for Round 8 to fit what I think the judges will approve of. No Way...

    So I say that we should just take these contests in perspective, go out there and create something, and don't worry about how it get's judged. Won't we all be better for it in the end? Way!

    :duel .
    Mark
    www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
    and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Here are some quotes dealing with sorrow I found:

    To the old, sorrow is sorrow; to the young, it is despair.
    - George Eliot (pseudonym of Mary Ann Evans Cross)

    We pick our own sorrows out of the joys of other men, and from their sorrows likewise we derive our joys.
    - Owen Felltham (Feltham)

    The sorrowful dislike the gay, and the gay the sorrowful.
    [Lat., Oderunt hilarem tristes tristemque jocosi.]
    - Horace (Quintus Horatius Flaccus),
    Epistles (I, 18, 89)

    Sorrows humanize our race;
    Tears are the showers that fertilize this world.
    - Jean Ingelow

    Sorrow is properly that state of the mind in which our desires are fixed upon the past without looking forward to the future.
    - Samuel Johnson (a/k/a Dr. Johnson) ("The Great Cham of Literature")

    Every heart has its secret sorrows which the world knows not, and oftentimes we call a man cold, when he is only sad.
    - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

    Sorrow is tranquility remembered in emotion.
    - Dorothy Rothchild Parker (Mrs. Alan Campbell)
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    thebigsky wrote:
    No, I don't buy it Shay, and can I just point out before anyone gets the wrong idea, two of the images of unhappy children, by I think Nikos and Indiegirl are both considerably better photographs than mine and both also evoke greater emotion than mine, but that emotion for me is not sorrow.

    I strive to take pictures as good and emotive as those and maybe once I can, I'll expose myself again to being judged.

    Charlie

    Well don't be a stranger for too long, I am going to miss your photos!!!
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • flybynightflybynight Big grins Posts: 11Registered Users Big grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Just My Opinion
    Like I said I’m new here and don’t know the ropes but, on other sites I grade photos upwards of 100 wkly. I find I vote on a scale of 1-5. Normally I judge if a photo meets the challenge, technicals and originality not whether it made me feel a certain way upon first seeing it. just MHO……..
  • saurorasaurora Major grins Posts: 4,320Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    sherstone wrote:
    It may be English but we all have a different perspective on what makes us feel happy or sad, joyful or sorrowful. That very fact is very evident in the few people that showed their top 10 picks before the official judges. Even the judges themselves had a wide spread of different likes and dislikes.
    Our life experiences flavor our interpretations of the themes. I think it is unreasonable to expect judges to view every piece of art by dictionary definition alone. How boring would that be? One can look at (for instance) "Unfair" and see varying reasons as to why that child is crying. Could be just unhappy to many, could come across as a spoilt brat to others, but to a person whose parents divorced at an early age (and yes, children at that age are aware of missing parents) it would be a sorrowful situation indeed....is not divorce a loss to a child? So of course our experiences make my choice for the top ten different than yours!

    Schmoo.....thank you so much for your kind words on my entry. I felt I was taking a risk by thinking outside the box, so to speak, with my entry. I had several ideas that did not come to fruition, and this was not one of them! But it grew and grew on me. I do experience great joy (especially as a photographer) with beautiful light and that also played into this selection. I did not expect to make the top ten, so I am pleased that my entry effected some in some way. It's a tough job being a judge and your feedback is much appreciated. I learn alot reading these feedbacks even on other people's entries. Feedback is what it is. It is valuable information if not taken personally. Sometimes the feedback may not be entirely accurate, but even that can be valuable to the photographer. The photographer gains by knowing how others interpret their work. If something comes across inaccurately, we need to know this as well. Thanks again!
  • thebigskythebigsky Cloudbusting Posts: 1,050Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

    That's the sound of my frustration at not being able to clearly express the point I'm trying to make, which is clearly a fault on my part.

    As much as I hate the phrase, we'll just have to 'agree to disagree,' without context, the image of a child crying will never emote sorrow to me, not in the way that I understand sorrow.

    Charlie
  • schmooschmoo word nerd Posts: 8,468Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    saurora,

    15524779-Ti.gif

    I think the constantly-changing panel of judges really is the most powerful component of the LPS challenge. We all bring different things to the table and I think that alone is more valuable than any other part of the equation.

    I really enjoyed writing up my impressions of these photos and I love receiving feedback about my work, too. It makes me very happy to know that many of you feel the same way. I think there is no better way to develop as an artist. After all this is an art, art is about subjectivity and feeling and interpretation. It doesn't always work in our favor, but what else are ya gonna do?

    .... keep shooting! :D
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    thebigsky wrote:
    the image of a child crying will never emote sorrow to me, not in the way that I understand sorrow.

    Good thing there are two theme elements to choose from then hehehe
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • thebigskythebigsky Cloudbusting Posts: 1,050Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    If there's one thing I've noticed Shay, you do like a good debate, even if you do at times seem disingenuous mwink.gif

    I wonder if the images had not been seen in the context of the competition if the majority of viewers would have thought, those are some upset kids, or those are some kids experiencing some real sorrow?

    Each to their own.

    Charlie
  • TentacionTentacion Click On ! Posts: 940Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Hmmm sometimes, I wonder how a child feels sorrow.

    When a child is still to young to experience and/or know the concept that entails such a broad view of "Sorrow".

    Most children visually and and behaviorally express their emotions as they have no concept of "definitions"

    So in reality it comes down to what "knowing" adults perceive when viewing the moment, and how we interpret it.
    You're only as good as your next photo....
    One day, I started writing, not knowing that I had chained myself for life to a noble but merciless master. When God hands you a gift, he also hands you a whip; and the whip is intended solely for self-flagellation...I'm here alone in my dark madness, all by myself with my deck of cards --- and, of course, the whip God gave me." Truman Capote
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    thebigsky wrote:
    If there's one thing I've noticed Shay, you do like a good debate, even if you do at times seem disingenuous mwink.gif

    Think of me as the pesky art teacher who likes to keep people asking questions and thinking about their notions of what art is and isn't, what can and can't be done. At the end of this contest, I hope people will have broadened their horizons :D

    Discussions, disagreements, and debates are all a part of it. I do hope to keep them at least constructive (as we have here) and not like the typical flame war seen elsewhere :D

    We certainly don't all have to agree. And gaining practical experience that we can disagree and yet be productive and friendly is a valuable thing to learn, because such learning never ends. Collectively, we need to learn how to accept disagreement and not let productive disagreement degenerate to destructive war.

    I may not like photos of guns pointing at someones head, for example, but I think I can now tolerate it with some amount of class and maybe even see some value in it, even though I continue to dislike it and discourage it mwink.gif

    That would not have happened for me without this friendly little debate iloveyou.gif
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • photogmommaphotogmomma Enormous giggles Posts: 1,644Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Charlie, I have to say I agree with you that while the photos chosen were beautiful for the most part, I did not feel that they either expressed Joy or Sorrow nor did they evoke that feeling in me. ne_nau.gif

    I had a lot more typed in, but it just sounds like whining and sour grapes.... Suffice it to say that I agree with you and know exactly where you're coming from.
  • GreensquaredGreensquared Lost my lens cap Cartersville, GAPosts: 2,115Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Shay, I know it's a lot of work, but will you be providing feedback for those of us that didn't get through? It seems to me like we need it more than those who did! :D

    Emily
    Emily
    Psalm 62:5-6

  • photogmommaphotogmomma Enormous giggles Posts: 1,644Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Shay, I know it's a lot of work, but will you be providing feedback for those of us that didn't get through? It seems to me like we need it more than those who did! :D

    Emily
    rolleyes1.gif I obviously need it! I thought I had a winner this time and last time! Laughing.gif! :D Waaaay wrong.
  • HoofClixHoofClix HoofSational! Posts: 1,156Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Shay, I know it's a lot of work, but will you be providing feedback for those of us that didn't get through? It seems to me like we need it more than those who did! :D

    Emily

    Yes, Shay, it seems I remember on the previous round some more extensive critique from more judges as well as on the whole array... I suppose that all takes more time to put up, however.....
    Mark
    www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
    and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
  • ElaineElaine Major grins Posts: 3,532Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    This one has taken its emotional toll on me more than the others. I should be happier, since I actually got some votes for the first time, and when I shot the pic I didn't even know what the themes were yet because we were out of town when they were announced. I'm left wondering if I had entered something else, something that others told me was a great pic but not actually "joyful," if it would have fared better...the whole "follow your gut" thing. I do appreciate all the time and effort put in by the judges, but I am fairly confused by this one. I'm wondering if I need to stay away from soliciting feedback again...somehow it's harder on the confidence when one group of people seems to like a pic and then the group that "counts" doesn't! eek7.gif We're all reading into these pics so differently, but somehow I'm caught up in the idea that qualifying for a SF will provide some validation for me as a photographer and prove that I've actually grown. If I do ever qualify, I know that's how I'll feel, so when I don't, I guess I struggle with feeling the exact opposite! I'm not sure this is good for my mental health! Actually, I think it's good to be considering these emotions in order to get to a healthier place. I'm not giving up, but I think my approach will change just a bit.

    EDIT: I realize to some that this may sound like complaining, and that's not what I intended at all. I certainly don't expect to "win" every contest I enter!! Rather, I'm attempting to nail down my own "workflow" regarding LPS, and I took a chance that sharing a small bit of that process with others would be helpful, to me and possibly someone else.
    Elaine

    Comments and constructive critique always welcome!

    Elaine Heasley Photography
  • thebigskythebigsky Cloudbusting Posts: 1,050Registered Users Major grins
    edited June 26, 2007
    Elaine wrote:
    I'm wondering if I need to stay away from soliciting feedback again...somehow it's harder on the confidence when one group of people seems to like a pic and then the group that "counts" doesn't! eek7.gif

    I would and do now, I made the mistake of taking this approach in the past, because you get a selection of opinions, it tends to water down your own, puttings seeds of doubt in your mind where previously there were none.

    I now realise that I discounted some of the better pictures I'd taken due to feedback received from the forum.

    Charlie
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