Thanks for soliciting and listening to feedback. Here is some more thinking to consider.
...
One of the first approaches I try take is to find a way to make simple things simple while still offering more advanced paths for doing the more advanced things.
...
Find a well matched size print (largely based on whether it's a 3:2, 4:3 or custom crop image)
See prices before you hit any button labeled "buy".
Not have to see the entire giant matrix of products/sizes/finishes just to select a print size and see approx prices.
Not have to see or understand true color vs. auto color.
One button for "adjust crop"
Duplicate is a funny option to have in the cart.
It should be hard to accidentally leave the cart.
In my opinion, the "quick copy" stuff at the top of the cart is generic and powerful, yet beyond the comprehension of many buyers. Buyers are task oriented, not tool oriented and you make them have to learn some tools in order to figure out how to complete their tasks.
...
Thanks for listening.
Any further info on our comments/suggestions in this thread? Any further ideas or iterations to discuss?
I appreciate Baldy's post that says you're listening, but I guess what I was expecting in a feedback thread was a bunch of customer responses, some questions from developers or product managers about the feedback, some debate about the relative importance of some of the feedback and then perhaps some iterations on the design that we could then supply further feedback on.
Any further info on our comments/suggestions in this thread? Any further ideas or iterations to discuss?
I appreciate Baldy's post that says you're listening, but I guess what I was expecting in a feedback thread was a bunch of customer responses, some questions from developers or product managers about the feedback, some debate about the relative importance of some of the feedback and then perhaps some iterations on the design that we could then supply further feedback on.
Hi John, and everyone - please be assured that it's all been absorbed and relished. This is great feedback and we think it's like gold.
Some of the feedback in this thread is related to the AddToCart interface, and some is related to our shopping cart itself - which, right now, are still two separate items.
We've been sorta quiet because we've got tons going on. I've made sure the team has seen your post John, thanks.
OK, I've got to ask the question. We now have iPhone sightings in Smugmug Virginia (bigwebguy) and Smugmug New York (Andy) and you just know there has to be at least one (probably several) at Smugmug HQ.
So ... at the risk of contributing to the hijaacking of this thread, is there going to be an iPhone-optimized display style for Smugmug that is optimized for the screen size on the iPhone, is automatically served on that user agent and is fully tested and certified with iPhone's Safari?
I am playing with printing site that you can integrate into your website, and the packages and coupons have me seriously considering switching or having both (like events.rifoto.com on smugmug for the masses that only want 4x6's and www.rifoto.com on my server for the featured fotos).
CUSTOMIZE THE CART
CUSTOMIZE THE CART
CUSTOMIZE THE CART
I'll add that to the mix. Most websites have a logo at the top, that when clicked on goes to your homepage. However, since the shopping cart page goes to smugmug.com/cart/ rather than rifoto.com/cart/, it show's smugmug's header and not mine, and so the navigation I want there is no longer available. It *does* have a link to continue browsing, so the script knows which site it's "on", and so throwing up the header shouldn't be a problem.
The key is consistency and simplisity. I'm constantly asked by people if I can get them prints because they can't figure out how to get them on their own. I can understand if it was a wedding and they are going to be buying lots of expensive photos, I'd just do it.. but it's generally friends or family who want 4x6s that have issues.
I've had customers not even notice the "product" choice... they will want to buy a square print and can't figure out how to do that. I also think the choice of true/auto color confuses people.
I'm sure you Smugmug staffers have gotten accounts at other print vendors so you can analyze how they do it, but I have noticed that since I switched from Shutterfly Pro to Smugmug Pro, my customers seem to get a bit more confused in the cart. They love the way the site displays the photos, but the cart set-up here confuses them.
0
Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
edited July 30, 2007
I'm definitely all in favor of upgrading the shopping cart interface. I just recently cranked up my print sales promotions and have been getting exponentially more orders, and have consequently been forced to deal with the problems of cropping, auto / true color, etc. etc...
I know that HERE is not exactly the right place, but what I would LOVE to see are the following:
You give customers the option to crop and color correct, why not add the B&W / Sepia options?
Then, since I think "Negative" and "Tanning Salon" are totally useless or at least un-professional, allow us to RESTRICT what customers can order for a gallery. All I can do right now is manually restrict a print surface, I can't FORCE true / auto color, I can't FORCE no crop, etc. etc. No bueno.
Lastly, allow the public to purchase CD's / DVD's of images, PLEASE! This is yet another thing that is already available to ME, I just want to make it available to customers. It is way annoying to have my print sales so nice and sleek and automated while my CD sales are via personal check, paypal, and take way too much time out of my day, especially if the event has been off-loaded from my primary HD already... Of course SM charges $12 or something per CD, and I only charge $25 for a CD, so unless the base cost of CD's can drop to $3-5 or something I guess I'm better off burning / printing / mailing them myself. But then again, I'm probably wasting $12 of my TIME anyway...
I can't FORCE true / auto color, I can't FORCE no crop, etc. etc.
Hi Matt,
We very highly recommend our Pros make use of our Proof Delay feature.
Proof Delay allows you to review the order before it's sent to print,
make corrections and changes to the cropping as well as auto versus true
color. Best of all, you have the opportunity to totally replace any
image that is ordered, with your choice of a replacement, still allowing
you to adjust the crop and color setting after replacing it. For more
info on this, please see the links below:
Hi Matt,
We very highly recommend our Pros make use of our Proof Delay feature.
Proof Delay allows you to review the order before it's sent to print,
make corrections and changes to the cropping as well as auto versus true
color. Best of all, you have the opportunity to totally replace any
image that is ordered, with your choice of a replacement, still allowing
you to adjust the crop and color setting after replacing it. For more
info on this, please see the links below:
I just did that, and the icing on the cake was that I can finish the order and send it off to the lab as soon as I'm ready, so the order doesn't HAVE to sit around for ALL 1-7 days! Oh my gosh what would I do without you, SmugMug?!? This feature is so cutting-edge it boggles my mind. Thank you all for letting me do business in a revolutionary way! I cringe now when I bump into "the competition" and chat about their workflow... There's a better way, people!!! (Some customers of a previous photog still haven't got their prints from like 2-3 months ago. OUCH!)
Now get on that B&W / Sepia and CD ordering for me lol!
BigWebGuy has been working hard on a better interface for adding to the cart. The goals are:
- To beautify. :tuesday
- To simplify buying more products per item (upsell).
- To provide product descriptions and prices up front.
- To pave the way for providing coupons, packages, and customizable products like books & calendars.
(Don't get too excited about #4 yet! They aren't part of this release. Paving the way are the watchwords.)
- Will eventually enable the cart to handle thousands of items quickly.
- Pros will be able to see their prices and base prices together.
- You can see file numbers (not shown in this screenshot).
This is step #1, and the cart itself will be step #2. The interface for buying multiple photos at once is a later step.
Why are we showing this to you now? Because we don't want to blind-side you with changes so critical as these. Our hope is to release this piece soon, but if there are gotchas we can delay.
Gotcha: we're still working on the lower left (this photo, all photos, the size of buttons, etc.)
New Interface problem
Is the interface already in effect? Seems li9ke it is. A customer called me today and she could not complete the purchase process. It prompted he to select standard or compact format but she could not select actual picture size. Finally I had to tell he to order it from me directly and send me a check. Woulkd prefer not to do that. Is there a problem with the interface?
Is the interface already in effect? Seems li9ke it is. A customer called me today and she could not complete the purchase process. It prompted he to select standard or compact format but she could not select actual picture size. Finally I had to tell he to order it from me directly and send me a check. Woulkd prefer not to do that. Is there a problem with the interface?
Laslo
Hi Laslo, we'll surely investigate - yes, the new add to cart is live.
Can you give a direct link to the photo in question please? Thanks!
I would first recommend that you try it yourself so you can get a feel for your customers' experience.
I'm not sure why he/she had difficulty putting in quantity "1" or using those arrow buttons to increase a quantity on a certain print size. There are no issues with this that I'm aware of.
Of course, the "buy mulitple photos" interface has not changed at all, and neither has the cart itself, so your customer is welcome to go that route if the "add-to-cart" interface isn't making sense to him/her at the moment.
The interface seems to work for me. I saw the imge size dialog come up where the photo size/quantity is selected. She was having a problem at this point. I did get multiple orders yesterday from anothe customer and no problems>
Hi Laslo, we'll surely investigate - yes, the new add to cart is live.
Can you give a direct link to the photo in question please? Thanks!
I would first recommend that you try it yourself so you can get a feel for your customers' experience.
I'm not sure why he/she had difficulty putting in quantity "1" or using those arrow buttons to increase a quantity on a certain print size. There are no issues with this that I'm aware of.
Of course, the "buy mulitple photos" interface has not changed at all, and neither has the cart itself, so your customer is welcome to go that route if the "add-to-cart" interface isn't making sense to him/her at the moment.
The interface seems to work for me. I saw the imge size dialog come up where the photo size/quantity is selected. She was having a problem at this point. I did get multiple orders yesterday from anothe customer and no problems>
Laslo
Yes, I find no errors in IE6, IE7 or Firefox or Safari.
Thanks for soliciting and listening to feedback. Here is some more thinking to consider.
.
.
.
Also, for pros, if you combined some real user interface simplicity innovation with packages, coupons and specials, you'd have a pro package that would be hard for any of the competitors to measure up to and would likely drive even more pro sales.
Thanks for listening.
And thanks for writing extraordinary feedback. From the time we opened this for a peek to the time we shipped (last night), it was a war. We were able to change usability and incorporate what I hope were some of your most important suggestions for the few weeks after posting. We also tried to incorporate what we were finding from usability tests. But then it became a death march to debug and get performance where we needed so we could ship.
Until we got it out we couldn't focus on the actual cart and the extra features everyone wants so badly.
I'm getting the feeling from the silence on the help desk and in the forums that the add to cart piece has been working pretty well today. No?
I just tried it for the first time and it certainly looks nice. I think it is difficult to make something with so many options and variables easy to use too. It did seem very slow, but that could just be my connection - Smugmug itself seemed a bit slow too and my Speedtest to San Jose (that hosted by SM, right?) was only 750K down when it's usually 2M+...
One thing that confused me was the fiunctionality of the vertical scroll bar. In every app I have ever used, clicking once in an open area of the scroll bar causes a "page up" or "page down" depending on if you click above or below the current position of the slider. In your case it jumps as far as you click; if you click at the very bottom of the bar, it jumps to the end of the list.
IMO, you should stick with the normal functionality for universal items like that.
I was logged in at the time and I really liked the part that shows what your customer's price would be for the highlighted item. Also the part that explains that you can't order a certain size print because the file isn't hi-res enough. Very nice, and it even tells you what Mpix is required for that item.
I also think it makes merchandise and downloads more noticeable, which is a good thing.
I like the new interface, but one thing I noticed is that it was saying that 'this requires cropping at checkout' under each print, even when the photo matched the aspect ratio of the print. In checkout, no cropping was needed, to verify.
Edit: I can't reproduce the error, so I'll just chalk it up to me doing something wrong at the moment. It's working fine now!
I like the new interface, but one thing I noticed is that it was saying that 'this requires cropping at checkout' under each print, even when the photo matched the aspect ratio of the print. In checkout, no cropping was needed, to verify.
Edit: I can't reproduce the error, so I'll just chalk it up to me doing something wrong at the moment. It's working fine now!
I like the new interface, but one thing I noticed is that it was saying that 'this requires cropping at checkout' under each print, even when the photo matched the aspect ratio of the print. In checkout, no cropping was needed, to verify.
Edit: I can't reproduce the error, so I'll just chalk it up to me doing something wrong at the moment. It's working fine now!
Matt
Matt - I saw the same thing in my galleries, although it appears to be working for me now, too.
Something else I see is when I view the new Buy This Photo page while I'm logged in, for most of the prints it shows my customer's price. For my 4x6's, which should have a price assigned, it says "Your customer's price: not for sale". When I view the page while logged out it shows the correct price.
Matt - I saw the same thing in my galleries, although it appears to be working for me now, too.
Something else I see is when I view the new Buy This Photo page while I'm logged in, for most of the prints it shows my customer's price. For my 4x6's, which should have a price assigned, it says "Your customer's price: not for sale". When I view the page while logged out it shows the correct price.
mike, can you provide a link to your gallery where you're seeing 'not for sale'?
mike, can you provide a link to your gallery where you're seeing 'not for sale'?
thanks.
and yeah, the cropping thing has been fixed.
My site is 1amphotos. I only see this when I'm logged on, and all my galleries are private, so I can't really provide a link. If you look at a gallery in the Slammers07 or Dragons07 categories, you should be able to see this. It only seems to show on the 4x6s. Let me know if you need more info.
btw - this is not an issue for me, I just wanted to point it out.
My site is 1amphotos. I only see this when I'm logged on, and all my galleries are private, so I can't really provide a link. If you look at a gallery in the Slammers07 or Dragons07 categories, you should be able to see this. It only seems to show on the 4x6s. Let me know if you need more info.
btw - this is not an issue for me, I just wanted to point it out.
btw2 - the page looks great!!
Hey mike, this has been fixed. Thanks for pointing it out.
Comments
PACKAGES
PACKAGES
PACKAGES
COUPONS
COUPONS
COUPONS
Plus I'll add - web sized downloads available
Michael
I can't WAIT to see these things implemented! I understand "paving the way", but at least it's looking sooner! This will be HUGE for me!
Thanks! Can't wait to see what's next....[/quote]
I do not even make glossy or matte available for sale as well - not a fan of either and lessens the customers confusion
Packages packages packages
Coupons
Web Sized Downloads
Michael
I appreciate Baldy's post that says you're listening, but I guess what I was expecting in a feedback thread was a bunch of customer responses, some questions from developers or product managers about the feedback, some debate about the relative importance of some of the feedback and then perhaps some iterations on the design that we could then supply further feedback on.
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Always include a link to your site when posting a question
Some of the feedback in this thread is related to the AddToCart interface, and some is related to our shopping cart itself - which, right now, are still two separate items.
We've been sorta quiet because we've got tons going on. I've made sure the team has seen your post John, thanks.
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http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2007/07/13/smugmug-on-our-iphones/
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It works great here on the Sprint PocketPC 6700.
My Website index | My Blog
....step away from the iPhone.......
50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 24-70 2.8L, 35mm 1.4L, 135mm f2L
ST-E2 Transmitter + (3) 580 EXII + radio poppers
PACKAGES
PACKAGES
COUPONS
COUPONS
COUPONS
I am playing with printing site that you can integrate into your website, and the packages and coupons have me seriously considering switching or having both (like events.rifoto.com on smugmug for the masses that only want 4x6's and www.rifoto.com on my server for the featured fotos).
CUSTOMIZE THE CART
CUSTOMIZE THE CART
CUSTOMIZE THE CART
I'll add that to the mix. Most websites have a logo at the top, that when clicked on goes to your homepage. However, since the shopping cart page goes to smugmug.com/cart/ rather than rifoto.com/cart/, it show's smugmug's header and not mine, and so the navigation I want there is no longer available. It *does* have a link to continue browsing, so the script knows which site it's "on", and so throwing up the header shouldn't be a problem.
The key is consistency and simplisity. I'm constantly asked by people if I can get them prints because they can't figure out how to get them on their own. I can understand if it was a wedding and they are going to be buying lots of expensive photos, I'd just do it.. but it's generally friends or family who want 4x6s that have issues.
http://www.riphoto.com/
Please Vote - External Shopping Cart Links:
http://uservoice.com/a/mL8RD
I'm sure you Smugmug staffers have gotten accounts at other print vendors so you can analyze how they do it, but I have noticed that since I switched from Shutterfly Pro to Smugmug Pro, my customers seem to get a bit more confused in the cart. They love the way the site displays the photos, but the cart set-up here confuses them.
I know that HERE is not exactly the right place, but what I would LOVE to see are the following:
You give customers the option to crop and color correct, why not add the B&W / Sepia options?
Then, since I think "Negative" and "Tanning Salon" are totally useless or at least un-professional, allow us to RESTRICT what customers can order for a gallery. All I can do right now is manually restrict a print surface, I can't FORCE true / auto color, I can't FORCE no crop, etc. etc. No bueno.
Lastly, allow the public to purchase CD's / DVD's of images, PLEASE! This is yet another thing that is already available to ME, I just want to make it available to customers. It is way annoying to have my print sales so nice and sleek and automated while my CD sales are via personal check, paypal, and take way too much time out of my day, especially if the event has been off-loaded from my primary HD already... Of course SM charges $12 or something per CD, and I only charge $25 for a CD, so unless the base cost of CD's can drop to $3-5 or something I guess I'm better off burning / printing / mailing them myself. But then again, I'm probably wasting $12 of my TIME anyway...
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Hi Matt,
We very highly recommend our Pros make use of our Proof Delay feature.
Proof Delay allows you to review the order before it's sent to print,
make corrections and changes to the cropping as well as auto versus true
color. Best of all, you have the opportunity to totally replace any
image that is ordered, with your choice of a replacement, still allowing
you to adjust the crop and color setting after replacing it. For more
info on this, please see the links below:
http://www.smugmug.com/help/proof-retouch-replace
http://smugmug.jot.com/WikiHome/ProofDelayForHappyCustomers
http://smugmug.jot.com/WikiHome/ProofDelaySolveCroppingWoes
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Now get on that B&W / Sepia and CD ordering for me lol!
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Very nice indeed. Get it out, asap. wonderful deisgn.
JimW
Is the interface already in effect? Seems li9ke it is. A customer called me today and she could not complete the purchase process. It prompted he to select standard or compact format but she could not select actual picture size. Finally I had to tell he to order it from me directly and send me a check. Woulkd prefer not to do that. Is there a problem with the interface?
Laslo
Can you give a direct link to the photo in question please? Thanks!
I would first recommend that you try it yourself so you can get a feel for your customers' experience.
I'm not sure why he/she had difficulty putting in quantity "1" or using those arrow buttons to increase a quantity on a certain print size. There are no issues with this that I'm aware of.
Of course, the "buy mulitple photos" interface has not changed at all, and neither has the cart itself, so your customer is welcome to go that route if the "add-to-cart" interface isn't making sense to him/her at the moment.
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Andy,
Thank you for your quick response. Here is the link to the photo.
http://www.digitalexpressionsphotography.com/gallery/3250550#180042700
The interface seems to work for me. I saw the imge size dialog come up where the photo size/quantity is selected. She was having a problem at this point. I did get multiple orders yesterday from anothe customer and no problems>
Laslo
Let us know if your customer has trouble again, we're happy to help. http://www.smugmug.com/help/emailreal
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Until we got it out we couldn't focus on the actual cart and the extra features everyone wants so badly.
I'm getting the feeling from the silence on the help desk and in the forums that the add to cart piece has been working pretty well today. No?
One thing that confused me was the fiunctionality of the vertical scroll bar. In every app I have ever used, clicking once in an open area of the scroll bar causes a "page up" or "page down" depending on if you click above or below the current position of the slider. In your case it jumps as far as you click; if you click at the very bottom of the bar, it jumps to the end of the list.
IMO, you should stick with the normal functionality for universal items like that.
I was logged in at the time and I really liked the part that shows what your customer's price would be for the highlighted item. Also the part that explains that you can't order a certain size print because the file isn't hi-res enough. Very nice, and it even tells you what Mpix is required for that item.
I also think it makes merchandise and downloads more noticeable, which is a good thing.
Edit: I can't reproduce the error, so I'll just chalk it up to me doing something wrong at the moment. It's working fine now!
Matt
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
Looks like we lost the sizes of the "small" and "large" magnets in the products sections.
Oh and WAY TO GO SMUGMUG!
http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
Fixed - thanks
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OK, so the interface looks great...now, can we PLEASE see the file names in the cart???:D
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www.facebook.com/samellisweddings
Matt - I saw the same thing in my galleries, although it appears to be working for me now, too.
Something else I see is when I view the new Buy This Photo page while I'm logged in, for most of the prints it shows my customer's price. For my 4x6's, which should have a price assigned, it says "Your customer's price: not for sale". When I view the page while logged out it shows the correct price.
thanks.
and yeah, the cropping thing has been fixed.
My site is 1amphotos. I only see this when I'm logged on, and all my galleries are private, so I can't really provide a link. If you look at a gallery in the Slammers07 or Dragons07 categories, you should be able to see this. It only seems to show on the 4x6s. Let me know if you need more info.
btw - this is not an issue for me, I just wanted to point it out.
btw2 - the page looks great!!
Hm, popped up as an issue for me, still. Linky: http://blackcatphoto.smugmug.com/gallery/3266405/1/172853733#181475317
Shows everything needing cropping, though I chose 8x12, hit "checkout," and voila...no cropping needed, depsite what it tried to tell me.
(Wish the cart itself already looked as snazzy as the new feature.)