Yours was not a loser at all. I voted you number 2.
Yes, don't get discouraged. I thought it was technically the best fireworks photo + heart rendering.
Yours was not a loser at all. I voted you number 2.
Yes, don't get discouraged. I thought it was technically the best fireworks photo + heart rendering.
Hey Netgarden,
Thanks for revealing your vote and thanks for the high praise for the shot. It keeps the streak alive - great praise from one judge but I'm just not resonating with enough of you.....yet....
E
I feel your pain, I've been there myself, one thing intrigues me however, I really liked your entry but reading this thread it has occurred to me that maybe there's a message in there that's specific to Americans?
Don't forget this is an international competition and not all the judges are American. I'm aware what the statue is through general knowledge but I have no emotional attachment to it and therefore I'm looking for the theme explosive but it seems to be a secondary element to the shot, is that a fair assessment?
Hadn't even thought of that aspect. I guess the emotional attachment is for Americans. I was still hoping that seeing the explosion at the site of planting the flag would hit the explosive theme more than showing fireworks exploding in the sky.
I'll have to keep the international angle in mind in the future.
Thanks for pointing it out.
E
Hadn't even thought of that aspect. I guess the emotional attachment is for Americans. I was still hoping that seeing the explosion at the site of planting the flag would hit the explosive theme more than showing fireworks exploding in the sky.
I'll have to keep the international angle in mind in the future.
Thanks for pointing it out.
E
The often used imagery of the American Flag often causes bewilderment and bemusement to those outside of the US, I for one wish we remained as patriotic in this country, we're almost ashamed of our flag it would seem.
Don't forget however, there's a whole wide world out here (a similar debate is underway here )
Hey E, for what its worth...I LOVED YOUR SHOT...and it mean't a lot to me because of the military personnel that are in my family, also because there was a Native American (IRA HAYES) that carried that flag up (not many know that). Besides all that, I thought your composition was great. It represented EXPLOSIVE to me in many ways. NOT only due to the fireworks, but to the moment in history that the statue represents, I also liked the coloring in your photo...RED is usually associated with explosive.
AGAIN, AWESOME shot.
Here are the names of the men that raised that flag...and for BIGSKY I am leaving a link that will give you the FULL details of the men that raised that flag for FREEDOM not only for Americans but for the entire world. I guess the flag is to the USA like the Queen or the Prime Minister is to England.
There are six Flag Raisers on the photo. Four in the front line and two in back.
The front four are (left to right) Ira Hayes, Franklin Sousley, John Bradley and Harlon Block.
The back two are Michael Strank (behind Sousley) and Rene Gagnon (behind Bradley). Strank, Block and Sousley would die shortly afterwards. Bradley, Hayes and Gagnon became national heroes within weeks.
One day, I started writing, not knowing that I had chained myself for life to a noble but merciless master. When God hands you a gift, he also hands you a whip; and the whip is intended solely for self-flagellation...I'm here alone in my dark madness, all by myself with my deck of cards --- and, of course, the whip God gave me." Truman Capote
Here are the names of the men that raised that flag...and for BIGSKY I am leaving a link that will give you the FULL details of the men that raised that flag for FREEDOM not only for Americans but for the entire world. I guess the flag is to the USA like the Queen or the Prime Minister is to England.
Hi Linda. Thanks for the nice words. Good luck on the exhibit - is it in Boston? Do you have a thread going for what you plan to show? E
Nope not Boston.
I have two entered into an Art Festival that takes place this weekend in Tinicum, PA and will be submitting 5 for a show in Trenton, NJ. I just have to get those last ones onto CD and mail them in for the 17th! (that's really sneaking up fast one me! :eek1) Then I have to wait and see which one(s) they want.
I do have a page on my site where I've posted all my exhibit entries.
feel your pain, I've been there myself, one thing intrigues me however, I really liked your entry but reading this thread it has occurred to me that maybe there's a message in there that's specific to Americans?
Don't forget this is an international competition and not all the judges are American. I'm aware what the statue is through general knowledge but I have noemotional attachment to it and therefore I'm looking for the theme explosive but it seems to be a secondary element to the shot, is that a fair assessment?
Thanks, but no history lessons required here
Bites tongue,
Charlie
No offense was intended to you, but the link was provided to give you more than "general" knowledge, as I always enjoy learning more. My apology, no need to keep "biting your tongue" it is going to get swollen.
IMO, I may not have an "emotional" attachment to a photo submitted of lets say of the Queen to England, or the Kangaroo or the Koala Bear is to Australia, the Geisha is to Japan, but I would understand (or try) along with the technical aspects to see the picture and what the photographerr was representing...Isn't that what a good judge does?....
So my next thought, if the judges are "international" and someone posts a composition of an Eagle, one of the many symbols that represents Freedom in the USA to many Americans, does that mean the judge is not going to rate it accordingly because he/she has no emotional attachment to it?? This is good to know...Thank You
@ and everyone has one....so I'll Bite My Tongue now, Got a Bandaid...
As the famous Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce once said..."I Will Fight No More Forever".
Have a great day.
You're only as good as your next photo....
One day, I started writing, not knowing that I had chained myself for life to a noble but merciless master. When God hands you a gift, he also hands you a whip; and the whip is intended solely for self-flagellation...I'm here alone in my dark madness, all by myself with my deck of cards --- and, of course, the whip God gave me." Truman Capote
I think a judges job is to go with their gut instinct and not try to second guess what the photographer was trying to represent, it should be clear, isn't the beauty of a great image that it has a universally emotional impact?
I think I'd best continue to bite my tongue, a swollen tongue is better than an international incident right?
I think a judges job is to go with their gut instinct and not try to second guess what the photographer was trying to represent, it should be clear, isn't the beauty of a great image that it has a universally emotional impact?
I think I'd best continue to bite my tongue, a swollen tongue is better than an international incident right?
Charlie
there is a fine line here, and I am also treading lightly
but while in college studying art, we were judged/critiqued on how well we communicated *our interpretation* or take on the theme
NOT
how well our interpretation matched the instructors' or peers' *own* take on the theme.
this difference is subtle, and I am not saying one way is right or wrong, its just my own personal experience.
PEACE LOVE AND RIP JOHN LENNON (100% serious about that!),
lynne
That's a fair point Lynne, although if the message were not communicated well it would require a judge to be aware of every nuance of disparate cultures and history which might be considered a tall order. I guess to a certain extent you have to play to your audience but not be restricted by them, if you could create an image that universally moved everyone on the same level that would be some achievement.
Ultimately Eoren's image failed to communicate its theme related message to me, other than the explosiveness of a firework, and still does.
That's a fair point Lynne, although if the message were not communicated well it would require a judge to be aware of every nuance of disparate cultures and history which might be considered a tall order.
I am glad we're able to intelligently debate the point, and my statment was in general about judging and interpretation, not eoren's shot specifically
Ultimately Eoren's image failed to communicate its theme related message to me, other than the explosiveness of a firework, and still does.
In this instance, I think there were just so many fireworks shots entered, one *really* had to drive a universal perspective (on top of a technically stellar shot, which I think eoren did) home to the judges, so I agree with you.
I give credit to people that can shoot subject specific shots on queue once, let alone week after week. Planning of this level takes not only skill, but time and discipline likely, maybe neither of which I have much of, or maybe it takes a lot of luck and skill. But I'll personally resist judging myself to harshly based on a few photo attemps that may or may not even cater to my style of art. Art is so subjective anyway, just because one person doesn't like something, doesn't make it bad art, it's just different. In fact, sometimes, some of the greatest artists, arent' even recognized as great until they are dead and gone.
Art sometimes comes to me when I least expect it. But I can't force it any more than I can force a great golf shot. While I may enter an entry for grins, my expectations will always be tempered by the fact it is just one photo, and it is just a 2 week period of time. Maybe my greatness won't happen until a month from now, a year from now, or maybe it was 3 weeks ago-
For some people the orchestrated shot is their specialty. For others of us, we depend on mother nature to orchestrate what we get, we are just there to capture the moment what we see as correctly.
For some people the orchestrated shot is their specialty. For others of us, we depend on mother nature to orchestrate what we get, we are just there to capture the moment what we see as correctly.
Lex, your point is an important one, and i think what is what makes an ongoing tournament like this so great. I for one am TERRIBLE at orchestration, I do much better nailing moments of something already in progress. I am seriously deficient at giving direction to subjects, setting up meticulous studio lighting, etc. I lack the knowledge as well as the natural inclination. But LPS has forced me to push myself in those arenas, and I am thankful for that!
I think what drew me to this thread initially was that from reading between the lines of some of the posts I got the impression that I was missing a message that had been picked up more by posters from the US.
It would be interesting to juxtapose the image with one where the statue was replaced with one of Nelson and see if they elicited the same response.
Who Is Nelson???
Just kidding, Charlie, but this brings home your point that this is a very, and growing more-so, international forum and tournament. I know who Nelson is, but have to admit that I wouldn't have known from a picture of him! Really, if we take a look at the percentage of entrants who are not actually American in the USA, I'd guess that it's the case that percentage has gone up as the LPS has been progressing. Charlie is a judge who is neither American nor living here. How is Eoren's photo supposed to have even registered as just another fireworks photo when first viewed by Charlie?
Now take a look at all of the fireworks photos. Therre were 3 out of the 25 that made it into the top 10, and only two of those are shots of the explosion itself, each of those having something else of substance to bring it into the 10. Fireworks mean different things almost everywhere. Diwali in India and the New Year in China..... So it was logical to me to stay away from fireworks in LPS8, though I was then guilty of just another water shot!
Donna actually shows that someone in her life has done a good job filling her in on her heritage, and she should be proud. As a former Marine (no such thing as an ex!) I got the meaning of Eoren's photo immediately, but I wouldn't have expected others to feel as I do. Most Marines also know that the original flag was put up by others long forgotten, but the crew in the Rosenthal photo came along after the enemy had been pushed aside to put a larger flag up.
So my point? Still the same, shoot your shot as best you can, but be midful of culture when you're putting your message up there.
Hi Tenacion,
I think I'd best continue to bite my tongue, a swollen tongue is better than an international incident right?
Charlie
Hey Charlie, what's a little swollen tongue between friends/acquaintances, well unless your married...(Ooo Did I say that? :smooch )....
You're only as good as your next photo....
One day, I started writing, not knowing that I had chained myself for life to a noble but merciless master. When God hands you a gift, he also hands you a whip; and the whip is intended solely for self-flagellation...I'm here alone in my dark madness, all by myself with my deck of cards --- and, of course, the whip God gave me." Truman Capote
Donna actually shows that someone in her life has done a good job filling her in on her heritage, and she should be proud.
As a former Marine (no such thing as an ex!)
So my point? Still the same, shoot your shot as best you can, but be midful of culture when you're putting your message up there.
:s85 Some cultures can be so alien to us
You're only as good as your next photo....
One day, I started writing, not knowing that I had chained myself for life to a noble but merciless master. When God hands you a gift, he also hands you a whip; and the whip is intended solely for self-flagellation...I'm here alone in my dark madness, all by myself with my deck of cards --- and, of course, the whip God gave me." Truman Capote
I suppose there could be some anti-American judges, so there may be a risk, as you said. But two other USA celebrations made it to the top 10, so not sure it's true in this case. But it sure is something to think about in the future. (I don't go around hating countries, so kind of naive to whats really out there, ;~) Especially in photography. But this sort of theory could go either way, I guess.
Like I said, I voted for it as #2, but what might have made it drop down was [rather than political] more likely that it was slightly too dark on the statue part. But I agree, it was the best fireworks shot, in clarity and statement.
I also loved the canon shot and gun shot. Those were very nice. Geesh there were so many to mention! Like 30 well deserving!
Just to clarify that my meaning wasn't at all that I thought non-US citizens would be anti-American as judges, only in sorting through 100 photos, a judge is likely to miss the meaning of photos that are based on one culture or another....
Comments
Yes, don't get discouraged. I thought it was technically the best fireworks photo + heart rendering.
Hey Netgarden,
Thanks for revealing your vote and thanks for the high praise for the shot. It keeps the streak alive - great praise from one judge but I'm just not resonating with enough of you.....yet....
E
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
I feel your pain, I've been there myself, one thing intrigues me however, I really liked your entry but reading this thread it has occurred to me that maybe there's a message in there that's specific to Americans?
Don't forget this is an international competition and not all the judges are American. I'm aware what the statue is through general knowledge but I have no emotional attachment to it and therefore I'm looking for the theme explosive but it seems to be a secondary element to the shot, is that a fair assessment?
Charlie
Hadn't even thought of that aspect. I guess the emotional attachment is for Americans. I was still hoping that seeing the explosion at the site of planting the flag would hit the explosive theme more than showing fireworks exploding in the sky.
I'll have to keep the international angle in mind in the future.
Thanks for pointing it out.
E
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
The often used imagery of the American Flag often causes bewilderment and bemusement to those outside of the US, I for one wish we remained as patriotic in this country, we're almost ashamed of our flag it would seem.
Don't forget however, there's a whole wide world out here (a similar debate is underway here )
Charlie
AGAIN, AWESOME shot.
Here are the names of the men that raised that flag...and for BIGSKY I am leaving a link that will give you the FULL details of the men that raised that flag for FREEDOM not only for Americans but for the entire world. I guess the flag is to the USA like the Queen or the Prime Minister is to England.
There are six Flag Raisers on the photo. Four in the front line and two in back.
The front four are (left to right) Ira Hayes, Franklin Sousley, John Bradley and Harlon Block.
The back two are Michael Strank (behind Sousley) and Rene Gagnon (behind Bradley). Strank, Block and Sousley would die shortly afterwards. Bradley, Hayes and Gagnon became national heroes within weeks.
http://www.iwojima.com/raising/raisingc.htm
Thanks, but no history lessons required here
Bites tongue,
Charlie
Nope not Boston.
I have two entered into an Art Festival that takes place this weekend in Tinicum, PA and will be submitting 5 for a show in Trenton, NJ. I just have to get those last ones onto CD and mail them in for the 17th! (that's really sneaking up fast one me! :eek1) Then I have to wait and see which one(s) they want.
I do have a page on my site where I've posted all my exhibit entries.
http://lrichters.smugmug.com
No offense was intended to you, but the link was provided to give you more than "general" knowledge, as I always enjoy learning more. My apology, no need to keep "biting your tongue" it is going to get swollen.
IMO, I may not have an "emotional" attachment to a photo submitted of lets say of the Queen to England, or the Kangaroo or the Koala Bear is to Australia, the Geisha is to Japan, but I would understand (or try) along with the technical aspects to see the picture and what the photographerr was representing...Isn't that what a good judge does?....
So my next thought, if the judges are "international" and someone posts a composition of an Eagle, one of the many symbols that represents Freedom in the USA to many Americans, does that mean the judge is not going to rate it accordingly because he/she has no emotional attachment to it?? This is good to know...Thank You
@ and everyone has one....so I'll Bite My Tongue now, Got a Bandaid...
As the famous Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce once said..."I Will Fight No More Forever".
Have a great day.
I think a judges job is to go with their gut instinct and not try to second guess what the photographer was trying to represent, it should be clear, isn't the beauty of a great image that it has a universally emotional impact?
I think I'd best continue to bite my tongue, a swollen tongue is better than an international incident right?
Charlie
there is a fine line here, and I am also treading lightly
but while in college studying art, we were judged/critiqued on how well we communicated *our interpretation* or take on the theme
NOT
how well our interpretation matched the instructors' or peers' *own* take on the theme.
this difference is subtle, and I am not saying one way is right or wrong, its just my own personal experience.
PEACE LOVE AND RIP JOHN LENNON (100% serious about that!),
lynne
50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 24-70 2.8L, 35mm 1.4L, 135mm f2L
ST-E2 Transmitter + (3) 580 EXII + radio poppers
Ultimately Eoren's image failed to communicate its theme related message to me, other than the explosiveness of a firework, and still does.
Charlie
I am glad we're able to intelligently debate the point, and my statment was in general about judging and interpretation, not eoren's shot specifically
In this instance, I think there were just so many fireworks shots entered, one *really* had to drive a universal perspective (on top of a technically stellar shot, which I think eoren did) home to the judges, so I agree with you.
50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 24-70 2.8L, 35mm 1.4L, 135mm f2L
ST-E2 Transmitter + (3) 580 EXII + radio poppers
Art sometimes comes to me when I least expect it. But I can't force it any more than I can force a great golf shot. While I may enter an entry for grins, my expectations will always be tempered by the fact it is just one photo, and it is just a 2 week period of time. Maybe my greatness won't happen until a month from now, a year from now, or maybe it was 3 weeks ago-
For some people the orchestrated shot is their specialty. For others of us, we depend on mother nature to orchestrate what we get, we are just there to capture the moment what we see as correctly.
Nice effort by your work above.
Lex, your point is an important one, and i think what is what makes an ongoing tournament like this so great. I for one am TERRIBLE at orchestration, I do much better nailing moments of something already in progress. I am seriously deficient at giving direction to subjects, setting up meticulous studio lighting, etc. I lack the knowledge as well as the natural inclination. But LPS has forced me to push myself in those arenas, and I am thankful for that!
50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 24-70 2.8L, 35mm 1.4L, 135mm f2L
ST-E2 Transmitter + (3) 580 EXII + radio poppers
It would be interesting to juxtapose the image with one where the statue was replaced with one of Nelson and see if they elicited the same response.
Charlie
Just kidding, Charlie, but this brings home your point that this is a very, and growing more-so, international forum and tournament. I know who Nelson is, but have to admit that I wouldn't have known from a picture of him! Really, if we take a look at the percentage of entrants who are not actually American in the USA, I'd guess that it's the case that percentage has gone up as the LPS has been progressing. Charlie is a judge who is neither American nor living here. How is Eoren's photo supposed to have even registered as just another fireworks photo when first viewed by Charlie?
Now take a look at all of the fireworks photos. Therre were 3 out of the 25 that made it into the top 10, and only two of those are shots of the explosion itself, each of those having something else of substance to bring it into the 10. Fireworks mean different things almost everywhere. Diwali in India and the New Year in China..... So it was logical to me to stay away from fireworks in LPS8, though I was then guilty of just another water shot!
Donna actually shows that someone in her life has done a good job filling her in on her heritage, and she should be proud. As a former Marine (no such thing as an ex!) I got the meaning of Eoren's photo immediately, but I wouldn't have expected others to feel as I do. Most Marines also know that the original flag was put up by others long forgotten, but the crew in the Rosenthal photo came along after the enemy had been pushed aside to put a larger flag up.
So my point? Still the same, shoot your shot as best you can, but be midful of culture when you're putting your message up there.
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Hey Charlie, what's a little swollen tongue between friends/acquaintances, well unless your married...(Ooo Did I say that? :smooch )....
:s85 Some cultures can be so alien to us
Steady on:whew
Like I said, I voted for it as #2, but what might have made it drop down was [rather than political] more likely that it was slightly too dark on the statue part. But I agree, it was the best fireworks shot, in clarity and statement.
I also loved the canon shot and gun shot. Those were very nice. Geesh there were so many to mention! Like 30 well deserving!
I think it's been about remembering that not all cultures will pick up on the same messages that any given image might portray.
Charlie
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..