Andy/Baldy - feed me

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  • patch29patch29 C|34N3R Atlanta, GARegistered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2007
    Skippy wrote:
    If your going to go Vegetarian you have to do it properly.


    What are some of the risks or pitfalls of being vegan?
  • DJ-S1DJ-S1 Life is good! Registered Users Posts: 2,303 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2007
    patch29 wrote:
    What are some of the risks or pitfalls of being vegan?

    From Brown University

    Brings up another question - do you take vitamin supplements?
  • greenpeagreenpea Major grins Registered Users Posts: 880 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2007
    Andy wrote:
    ...I totally stay away from all fast foods, and anything processed.

    What about beer Andy? beer.giffreaky

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    I tried (as an experiment) to go 100% vegan for 1 month. I almost made it a month then someone offered me a big plate of prime rib. I haven't looked back since.
    Andrew
    initialphotography.smugmug.com

    "The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera" - Dorothea Lange
  • stirfrystirfry I'm here for the articles Registered Users Posts: 242 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2007
    patch29 wrote:
    What are some of the risks or pitfalls of being vegan?

    Same as with any other eating pattern, I reckon:

    ~ the pitfall of eliminating one subset of food without replacing it with a (healthy) alternative. Closely related would be the idea that you can or need to replace x and y with a pill (vitamin/mineral/shake/supplement - it's all unregulated and pretty much a crapshoot anyhow IMO/E). I think if it makes you feel good to think the supplements are helping, they're worth taking for peace of mind if nothing else ... but I don't think they do much good, either. And certainly they're not something to take in the long-term, perhaps just in the interim as you transition from one diet to another.

    ~ improper nutritional intake. There are definitely junk food veg*ns just as there are junk food carnivores ... but IME that is more a personality trait/philosophy type of thing that it is necessarily a veg*n thing (YMMV).

    ~ yearning for foods not on The List. As addressed earlier in the thread, tastes change but it can and does sometimes take time ... a few weeks, maybe even months to adapt to a new and different palatte. Not unlike a smoker who gives up the habit, there is oftentimes a physical withdrawal period ... but that is all it is: a period. And even sometimes an emotional withdrawal if much of your eating is/has been centered on a specific type of food. Most notably an issue during holidays I'd imagine.

    I just realized that I'm really new to this forum, and y'all other posters to this thread ... aren't Laughing.gif. I don't mean to butt into a cozy corner, and I'm sorry if I have. It's just an issue near and dear to my heart iloveyou.gif a lifetime of fighting misinformations and half truths about veg*nism. That said, while the pictures of food posted above were disgusting to me ... I knew where you were going with the last picture (the "vegan"), and it still made me laugh aloud. :D Y'all seem like a fun group of folks, I feel like I'm looking in through the window at a dysfunctional family christmas around the table!



    As you were! :ivar
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkRegistered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2007
    DJ-S1 wrote:
    From Brown University

    Brings up another question - do you take vitamin supplements?
    Yes. Multivitamin w/ B-12 (b-12 is the only thing you can't get from all plant based diet).
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkRegistered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2007
    DJ-S1 wrote:
    Here's a few dumb questions to start with until I can start reading -

    1. What do you drink? I imagine my staple (Diet Coke) is pretty much out. I'm not big on teas, and plain water gets old fast. Alcohol would be no biggie for me to skip, though.
    I drink water. A lot. Herbal sun tea. And I have not given up my espresso. Fruit Smoothies.

    I don't drink alcohol.

    2. What salad dressings are decent? Oil and vinegar only would be a tough one for me. (But I'll do it if I have to.)
    It's no biggie to make your own dressings, you learn to create cool stuff. But there are plenty of very low fat dressings that taste good, too.
    3. All lettuce's are not created equal, right? I eat romaine and iceburg mainly, but I assume iceburg is worthless and romaine is decent, no?
    Romain is soooo good for you.
    4. How about a big bowl of Wheaties or shredded wheat or something? Too processed?
    Shredded wheat, fine - I prefer Granola :)
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkRegistered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2007
    stirfry wrote:
    There are definitely junk food veg*ns just as there are junk food carnivores

    Yeah - I've seen and know plenty of "pasta-tarians" lol3.gif
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkRegistered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2007
    stirfry wrote:

    I just realized that I'm really new to this forum, and y'all other posters to this thread ... aren't Laughing.gif. I don't mean to butt into a cozy corner, and I'm sorry if I have.

    I'd be pissed if you didn't join in! Now kwitcher worrying and start contributing even more. Now deal.gif
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkRegistered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2007
    Dee wrote:
    What about nuts -- aren't they too fatty?
    Yeah, can be. I use them in moderation.
    What do you drink? I don't mind green tea, and a tea/lemonade mixture, and since I don't eat fruit -- fruit smoothies would be great... I do like melons..
    mmmm sounds perfect. And water deal.gif
    And I have to give up sushi???? No, not sushi!
    No, you don't. Even Dr. Furhman says it's okay. Have your Sushi if you want, just in moderation.

    Does a vegan diet help with acid reflux?
    Well... erem... there are definite digestive changes! Your body will have an ......adjustment period :D lasts about 2-4weeks. Ed will understand.
    Will giving up chicken (the only meat I eat regularly) really cause me to lose weight?

    What about bread? (I do like wraps and pita bread).

    No cake? No sweets?
    No processed sugar sweets. No white bread. Whole wheat pitas!
  • DeeDee Major grins Registered Users Posts: 2,981 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    Thanks Andy
    Did you just stop suddenly.... if so, how long did it take your cravings (if any) to subside?

    I did find that after 2 years of eating low fat, I just stopped craving a lot of stuff...
  • TerrenceTerrence Works too much to shoot Registered Users Posts: 477 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    Baldy and Andy: Bravo on eating so healthily. Did you like veggies and fruit before you started the China Study or did they grow on you as you got into this change in habits?

    My biggest problem is I really loathe the texture and taste of most vegetables...especially raw. Even fruit beyond strawberries and pineapple isn't appealing. My pallette is very limited. My best effort to date is replacing bad carbs with good and eating chicken and turkey almost exclusively.

    This way of eating makes perfect sense and the vision of snacking on a carrot rather than a candy bar is dreamy. I can't stomach the carrot, so I just dropped the candy bar.
    Terrence

    My photos

    "The future is an illusion, but a damned handy one." - David Allen
  • SkippySkippy Forensic Wannabe Registered Users Posts: 12,075 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    patch29 wrote:
    What are some of the risks or pitfalls of being vegan?

    Iron Deficiency and Anemia, just to name a few things.
    If you do not eat the right mixtures of foods that give you the right vitamins such things can occur.

    This is what I mean about doing it properly, you can't take protein out of your diet and not replace it.

    I'm no expect I'm also not a vegetarian or a vegan, I choose not to eat meat 95% of the time myself.

    If your going to choose to be a Vegetarian or Vegan you have to do it properly.

    Get into the habit of reading labels.
    The hidden fats and sugars in processed foods is just crazy.

    Most packaged foods are over processed, a lot of the good stuff has been removed during the processing stage, and other things often added.

    I rarely ever eat take away food, probably the worst I'd be at doing that is when I am in USA or Canada :D

    I prefer to prepare my meals myself, and that way I know what's in them.

    It's really not that hard to make Healthy Choices.
    Be aware of what your putting in your mouth.

    Now having said all that, I am no stick figure in build either rolleyes1.gif

    ..... Skippy :D
    .
    .
    Skippy (Australia) - Moderator of "HOLY MACRO" and "OTHER COOL SHOTS"

    ALBUM http://ozzieskip.smugmug.com/

    :skippy Everyone has the right to be stupid, but some people just abuse the privilege :dgrin
  • wholenewlightwholenewlight Press Any Key Registered Users Posts: 1,529 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    This discussion is very interesting to me. I'm intrigued and might be up for a go with a stricter plan for health.

    Going out? Not a problem. Salads are everywhere. Then, I can also do fine at most any ethnic restaurant: Mexican, Indian, Italian, Mediterranean, etc.

    I eat mexican all the time and veggie would be fine for me but what about refried beans. I'm sure my local eatery make them with lard. I'd ask them but communication is tricky - even ordering is always an amusing adventure; wondering what food will actually be delivered to me.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by patch29
    Andy is your family on your diet? ear.gif

    Wife yes, though she didn't need to lose an ounce.

    And there lies one challenge for me. My daughter-of-a-butcher wife, would rather volunteer for medical experiements than to give up her beloved red meat. :D But I travel a lot on business and fend for myself - salads are frequently my choice anyway.
    Chile! We make 4 or 5 different kinds of vegetarian Chile. One pot bean dishes that are amazing. Italian! Whole grain pastas, with garlic, basil, olive oil.

    And the Andy/Baldy Smugmug cookbook is released when?? mwink.gif
    john w

    I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
    Edward Steichen

  • dragon300zxdragon300zx What God Complex? Registered Users Posts: 2,575 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    And the Andy/Baldy Smugmug cookbook is released when?? mwink.gif

    Exactly what I have been wondering.
    Everyone Has A Photographic Memory. Some Just Do Not Have Film.
    www.zxstudios.com
    http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    Good thread.

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    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaSuper Moderators Posts: 14,581 moderator
    edited July 12, 2007
    Vegatarians will not be constipated either, Sid.

    The China Study is a fascinating book, with excellent advice.

    I gather that Andy does not eat any yogurt either?
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • wholenewlightwholenewlight Press Any Key Registered Users Posts: 1,529 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    Maybe there's a good "co-branding" opportunity here:

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    eek7.gifne_nau.gif
    john w

    I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
    Edward Steichen

  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    pathfinder wrote:
    Vegatarians will not be constipated either, Sid.

    The China Study is a fascinating book, with excellent advice.

    I gather that Andy does not eat any yogurt either?
    I wondered about that. Non-fat yoghurt with pistachio nuts and a packet of Splenda is a favorite snack.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • patch29patch29 C|34N3R Atlanta, GARegistered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    Honey, permitted or not? :D
  • DJ-S1DJ-S1 Life is good! Registered Users Posts: 2,303 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    patch29 wrote:
    Honey, permitted or not? :D
    Well, maple syrup was permitted so I don't see why honey wouldn't be. But I could be wrong!

    So today I had a huge salad, a Jazz apple (never had one, yummy) and a white peach (also yummy). Dinner will be a breeze, so my only issue it seems in the short term will be breakfast. I bought some Kashi cereal but I don't want to overdo the milk - maybe I'll just skip it and snack on fruit until lunch. ne_nau.gif
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkRegistered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    patch29 wrote:
    Honey, permitted or not? :D
    100% Strict vegans would say "no."

    Personally I'm okay w/ Honey. And a bit of cream in my coffee ;)
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkRegistered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    DJ-S1 wrote:
    Well, maple syrup was permitted so I don't see why honey wouldn't be. But I could be wrong!
    Maple Syrup though comes from a plant.
    Honey, comes from an animal deal.gif
    So today I had a huge salad, a Jazz apple (never had one, yummy) and a white peach (also yummy). Dinner will be a breeze, so my only issue it seems in the short term will be breakfast. I bought some Kashi cereal but I don't want to overdo the milk - maybe I'll just skip it and snack on fruit until lunch. ne_nau.gif
    Lose the Milk if you can. I gave a ton of breakfast sugg's above!
  • Lee MasseyLee Massey Major grins Registered Users Posts: 274 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    Andy wrote:
    I eat all day long and I'm never hungry. I have lost 50lbs since January 1st 2007. I feel better than I have in 20 years.

    Wow Andy... I had no idea. A sincere congratulations is in order. thumb.gif

    Lee
  • dragon300zxdragon300zx What God Complex? Registered Users Posts: 2,575 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    :( if this keeps up you guys are going to peer pressure me into eating healthier and cutting back on my meat intake to almost none.
    Everyone Has A Photographic Memory. Some Just Do Not Have Film.
    www.zxstudios.com
    http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
  • Ann McRaeAnn McRae SmugMug BizDev|Educator Registered Users Posts: 4,584 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    :( if this keeps up you guys are going to peer pressure me into eating healthier and cutting back on my meat intake to almost none.


    Yeah, me too. I could really stand to loose the same weight Andy has. My total calories per day is not large - maybe even under average. But my opportunity for exercise now that I have a desk job is slim to nil and consequently I am not.

    So I think I will start with increasing fruits and veggies many fold and decreasing meat. I worry about osteoporosis and so am reluctant to give up the tiny bit of dairy that I force myself to consume.

    I am at the age where I have ill parents/aunts/uncles and a few friends are starting to be affected by disease as well. Since I want to see the world when I retire, and I cannot afford to retire yet, I guess I need to do whatever is necessary to live that long AND feel good too.

    ann
  • patch29patch29 C|34N3R Atlanta, GARegistered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    DJ-S1 wrote:
    My only issue it seems in the short term will be breakfast. I bought some Kashi cereal but I don't want to overdo the milk - maybe I'll just skip it and snack on fruit until lunch. ne_nau.gif


    Breakfast I am doing well with. I have Kashi or similar organic whole grain cereal, fresh blueberries and soy milk.

    Lunch I am ok, usually a sandwich with whole grain bread, organic peanut butter and fruit spread, or turkey and cheese. :yikes My problem there has always been potato chips. I eat way too many, at the moment I have substituted pretzels. I eat less of them and they are probably a little better than chips.

    Dinner is my big miss. I need more salads and veggies. I have been doing better.

    I cut out fast food almost entirely, now it is very occasional and usually when I am traveling.

    One step at a time. :D I don't think I can go cold turkey from cheese, yogurt, fish, chicken, meat............ NO PIZZA!! :yikes not sure I can or want to do that.
  • dlscott56dlscott56 Major grins Registered Users Posts: 1,321 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    Had McDonalds for breakfast on the way to work, pizza for lunch in between meetings, couple of cookies after that, coffee and coke all day!! Now I'm sitting here, belly hanging over the belt, reading this and thinking ... I GOTTA CHANGE!!!

    So I just ordered Eat To Live.

    I'll keep ya posted.
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkRegistered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    dlscott56 wrote:
    Had McDonalds for breakfast on the way to work, pizza for lunch in between meetings, couple of cookies after that, coffee and coke all day!! Now I'm sitting here, belly hanging over the belt, reading this and thinking ... I GOTTA CHANGE!!!

    So I just ordered Eat To Live.

    I'll keep ya posted.
    Dave, it's the best thing you could ever do. Trust me on this.

    Good luck! Holler for help.
  • wxwaxwxwax Immoderator Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2007
    Frankly, one my biggest problems is a reluctance to cook for myself. I'm a decent cook, I know my way around a kitchen, have worked in restaurants.

    But cooking and cleaning-up dinner everyday is a massive amount of time, for 10 minutes of chew time. So guess which is my hands-down worst meal of the day?

    Oh yeah, and I hate shopping.

    Apparently, I'd rather have a vegetable on my sofa than on my dinner table.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • BaldyBaldy SmugMug co-founder Mountain View, CaRegistered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited July 12, 2007
    Truth be told, I've been okay with fruits most of my life but not with veggies. It was an adaptation for me and I picked them off one by one until I got used to them and eventually, strange as it seems, learned to love them. Beets and brussel sprouts were the last two. I used to detest them. Now I'm okay with them, in moderation.

    The only nutritional deficiency I worry about is B-12. It used to be generated by bacteria in soils but isn't much anymore, so you have to supplement. Protein isn't a concern because leafy greens are so much higher in protein per calorie than beef is.

    Food marketers are very clever and the junk, dairy, beef, and drug industries have unbelievable budgets. They love to give percentages in weight, not by calorie. So 2% milk is 2% fat by weight (lots of water in it). It's 35% fat by calorie, most of it saturated. Doesn't matter; they have the budget to put Alondra in a full-page ad with a milk mustache in Newsweek. Anyone can see milk does a body good.

    gotmilk.jpg

    The brocolli growers can't afford Alondra.

    Beef marketers do the same to mask how much higher protein brocolli, leafy greens and legumes are than meat. And they'll do anything to spread FUD, like claiming they have incomplete proteins (they do, but if you eat much variety it's impossible not to get complete proteins).

    The really dangerous one is iron. It's an oxidant, not an anti-oxidant, that is strongly linked to aging. The form in animals is called heme iron and the body absorbs much more of it than the plant form of iron. The body absorbs just what it needs with the plant form.

    If you eat refined foods and no meat, you can become iron deficient, but it's hard to do if you eat healthy whole plants. For example, my wife can tell you I've suffered restless legs syndrome all my life, keeping both her and I from sleeping. I had to supplement iron in an attempt to alleviate them (it didn't work). They are thought to be linked to iron deficiency.

    it was a big concern for me to drop meat because I was afraid of iron anemia. But it didn't happen and somehow my restless leg syndrome went away a few months after dropping meat from my diet.

    There is a big re-thinking going on with iron and what constitutes iron deficiency. You'll notice it's being dropped from vitamins and fortified foods in recent years. And the thinking is that what was considered normal was based on population studies of people who ate a lot of meat. It's very clear that people who have lower iron levels, people who donate blood, people who menstruate, live considerably longer and it's thought to be related to lower iron levels in the blood. It's not water soluble, so the body has a tough time disposing of iron if you don't bleed. Eating a lot of heme iron that doesn't allow the body to regulate absorption is thought by many experts to be dangerous.
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