Come on now, I'm dead serious in my reply above, where you think it's sugar sweet, I'm telling you, the rest of the posters that we're seeing this.
Would you prefer I say nothing, and not acknowledge the postings?
Thank you Andy for responding, I may not always agree with answers but at least when one takes the time to write out suggestions I for one appreciate a response. Since we will agree to disagree I more than likely as a "pro" user will move my business site in the next few months to another site that better fits my requirements. It is nothing personal, or emotional because I am not happy, its just plain business. Any good business owner should do what is right for their business, leaving emotional issues out of the fray.
As a personal user I will continue to use SM as I have over the past 2 1/2 years. It really is a great service for that purpose. I appreciate you at least considering the request to look at your policies on implementation of upcoming features.
another comment from the 'other side of the fence'
SM is as it is and when we sign up we haven't done so expecting such and such features to be additional parts of the package within any given time frame
Agreed - I think this is an important point. If Smugmug doesn't currently meet your needs then MOVE ON instead of constantly demanding that they tell you when, if, or how they'll add the features you require.
I've been here for over 2 years and MANY of the features that people take for granted now were popular requests from users in years past. SM has a great track record of listening to its customers and implementing features that they want. However, I think this has bred a bit of an attitude of entitlement. They don't owe us anything other than what is advertised and the feature list isn't decided by a majority (or vocal minority) vote. Last I checked, Canon wasn't publishing a list of 40D specs -- even though people might head to Nikon if they weren't reassured that their feature requests were high on the list.
Some of the features people want so badly are tricky to implement as well. One example: people have repeatedly asked for branding in the shopping cart. This poses some problems as presently I can add photos from 5 different galleries (from differerent pro photographers) and check out with all of them in my cart at the same time. So which branding should be displayed?? There are also some security issues with allowing user definable custom code in a secure checkout environment.. Anyway, there are often more far-reaching issues that make clean implementation of some of our requests problematic.
I don't want to stir things up, but I thought I'd add another point of view...
If you folks think I'm complaining, you're wrong...I'm a new guy in these parts...These suggestions are suggestions, not criticisms...those of us making them are trying to make Smugmug a better place to be...in particular, a better place to host a business.
If Smugmug doesn't currently meet your needs then MOVE ON instead of constantly demanding that they tell you when, if, or how they'll add the features you require.
I don't think Smugmug (or anyone who is in business) would take that approach. There is a loud enough ground-swell in the forums that these are clearly not a one-off requests...and SM is listening, as they should.
When I "Move On", I hope to leave the place in better shape than when I arrived.
Some of the features people want so badly are tricky to implement as well.
Yes? How does that play into this discussion? What's wrong with, "That's a tricky request for several reasons, such as...but we like the idea and will try to implement it as soon as we work out the details...more to come!"...or..."We've looked at that and determined that for several reasons we will not be able to deliver that feature in the near term...sorry". Either response suffices.
Business people weigh cost and benefits - that's what determines priorities...if something is too tricky (read expensive) and doesn't deliver enough benefit it falls off the list. But being complicated is not reason alone to not do something.
Sorry Gary I do think you are wrong, I think it is unreasonable and niave to expect Smugmug to provide the level of information you and some others appear to be insisting upon [...] Producing a prioritised and categorized list of forthcoming developments seems to me like opening the door to any competitiors to jump in first.
I've been in the software business for a (too) long time! I've dealt with literally hundreds of software vendors, ALL of whom provide pipeline information to their customers (some have gone further to established advisory counsels with their best customers to discuss the pipeline) (including IBM, Apple, and Microsoft - I've been on them).
What opens up the door to competitors is an open forum wherein requests are made and a lack of formal disposition is returned. That spells opportunity to a competitor.
I also was not looking to stir up this place...in fact, it wasn't even my fight to fight...but I noticed, even in the short time I've been here, I was continuously frustrated by the lack of concrete response to ideas and suggestions and the original post rang true for me.
I see this as an issue which, if resolved, will improve Smugmug's reputation and make it an even more advantageous alternative for someone who needs a site to host their business. They will attract more "Pro" users and realize a smaller attrition rate...why fight that?
Peace.
- Gary.
0
Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
I think you'll be pleased with some things we've got in the works. I won't be letting on, no no no, but trust me we hear you!
Thanks for taking the time to let us know how important this stuff is to you guys
Am I the ONLY pro who saw this reply and just about burst with glee?
I don't know how long the other posters in this thread have been around, but I've had a pro account since almost the beginning and honestly, it is the greatest feeling to see Andy post a reply like that. Why? Becuase I KNOW they're on it, and I know it will be SOON. I DO understand that it can be annoying to always get a "we're on it" reply if you don't actually KNOW how good they are at being "on it". But *I* know, so as soon as I see Andy say that I sit back and don't worry about it. It may take a month or two or three, but bottom line- SmugMug has had an amazing track record for enhancing the pro experience over the years, and they are above and beyond any other service out there...
Yes, I understand that it takes months to decide on a new feature and implement it. But SmugMug is by far the best gallery host out there, even for myself as a wedding photographer. Especially for the price. (And with the referral system, I end up paying $20-40 less EVERY year!)
Okay okay, if you want, go try Pictage. Yes, they offer proof books, albums, collections, discounts, etc. But you will come running back to SmugMug so fast I won't even have time to blink. Their actual gallery interface, for both the pro behind the scenes AND for the bride and the public, is truly nightmare-ish. And trust me, I'm a REALLY nice guy and I HATE to bash other productcs / companies.
Right now what works for me is to simply use SmugMug for what it can be used, and use WHCC for anything else. WHCC offers shipped-flat (and pre-mounted, which I always get) prints, and shipping is free 2nd-day too!
(Sorry SM gang, no more tubed prints for me. Even if EZprints can get them into the tube un-creased, MOUNTING a curly print is a whole different story...)
I Do however LOVE the new canvas prints offered by SmugMug!!!! Thank you guys!!!!
WHCC ALSO gives you candy if you place an extra-huge order, now how can you say no to that?!
So anyway, I hope this puts a LITTLE peace of mind into my fellow pro's heads. They're on it, worry not!
Sincerely,
Matthew Saville, long-time SmugMug pro user...
PS: I refer fellow wedding photographers to SM all the time. They are always smitten when I show them what SmugMug can do!
I've side-stepped the lack of "package / discount" sales in my own tricky way so I don't really need that feature to come pronto, but making CD / DVD's available directly to the customers is one thing I'm READY for. And Andy, make sure they offer different Resolution CD's, too! I don't want to sell my high-res originals of course, not because I'm greedy but just because I hate to see customers forced to print / mount / frame their own wedding photos, it strikes me as very un-professional. I want to only offer low / medium resolution CD's, and let couples come directly to me for large prints...
Bye bye SmugMug
My first year is almost up. I joined after being told that holiday cards were "in the works" which never happened. I had to use Kinkos. I currently have to make and sell my own CDs of galleries. I am a wedding photographer and have to use a third party for albums. I have never been able to perfect my slide show and being forced to know/write css and java is a pain. I am being killed by my competitor's elegant websites. I really HATE to go to Pictage. They are so expensive. But, your lack of progess on things is frustrating. I guess you are going the stock photography route and leaving us portfolio, event, and wedding photographers behind. Wish you success, but I gotta go. Maybe you guys will finally "get it" when people stop complaining and just plain leave, like me.
Right now what works for me is to simply use SmugMug for what it can be used, and use WHCC for anything else. WHCC offers shipped-flat (and pre-mounted, which I always get) prints, and shipping is free 2nd-day too!
....
(Sorry SM gang, no more tubed prints for me. Even if EZprints can get them into the tube un-creased, MOUNTING a curly print is a whole different story...)
So....what do you actually use smugmug for? 4x6es and 5x7s? and those customers that prefer uncut wallets?
WHCC ALSO gives you candy if you place an extra-huge order, now how can you say no to that?!
...An extra-huge order NOT placed with smugmug. Maybe instead of scaring us away from pictage, you're convincing us to ditch smugmug and do everything thru WHCC, and collect/fulfill on our own. At least then it would be seamless. good idea!
I hate to see customers forced to print / mount / frame their own wedding photos, it strikes me as very un-professional. I want to only offer low / medium resolution CD's, and let couples come directly to me for large prints...
But collecting funds different ways for four different products doesn't look unprofessional?
My first year is almost up. I joined after being told that holiday cards were "in the works" which never happened. I had to use Kinkos. I currently have to make and sell my own CDs of galleries. I am a wedding photographer and have to use a third party for albums. I have never been able to perfect my slide show and being forced to know/write css and java is a pain. I am being killed by my competitor's elegant websites. I really HATE to go to Pictage. They are so expensive. But, your lack of progess on things is frustrating. I guess you are going the stock photography route and leaving us portfolio, event, and wedding photographers behind. Wish you success, but I gotta go. Maybe you guys will finally "get it" when people stop complaining and just plain leave, like me.
Hi, Ouch - so sorry you are upset. I can't fix everything but I can tell you this: We do not force anyone to learn CSS or Javascript. 1000s of pros have gotten customized by us and Dgrin. If you simply ask for help on your slideshow, or customizing, we have a team of experts on Staff here, as well as dozens of volunteer helpers here on Dgrin, that LOVE to help. But we can't know you need help if you don't ask. AFAIK, anyone who has ever raised their hand and said "help" has always always gotten the help.
Would you like me to assign a specialist to you to get your site going the way you want? Just email me at the help desk, ATTN: Andy, and I'll make it so.
We have no intentions whatsoever of leaving portrait, event, wedding, photographers behind.
Thanks so much for all the information here.... I'm glad to see I'm not the only one banging my head against the walls because of some of the limitations.
Andy, thanks for putting up the "what's going on" thread so that we know what you're working on now - that's very helpful!
As for what I'm going to be doing... For portrait sessions, I'll stick with SmugMug and if I do books for them, I'll figure out a good way to do them. It's not so hard for that.
But with my weddings, well... for now, I'm going to look around at options. With my level of frustration and the work I've had to do (that I don't feel I should have to), I'm just not happy with the crazy flow. It's frustrating to me and confusing and clunky for my clients.
Now, if another wedding photographer that has done MANY weddings through SM would care to share his/her workflow, maybe I'll decide on something different. But I'd defintely going to be exploring options.
And if SM starts to put out the things I need to keep my work flow sleek for me and my customers, I'll reconsider it.....
I've been in the software business for a (too) long time! I've dealt with literally hundreds of software vendors, ALL of whom provide pipeline information to their customers (some have gone further to established advisory counsels with their best customers to discuss the pipeline) (including IBM, Apple, and Microsoft - I've been on them).
Really? Please post a link to the public bulletin board/forum where the Apple/IBM/MS brass discusses specifics of upcoming features or products, I'd really like to read that. Thanks!
Okay, sorry for the snide remark - it wasn't really called for. But unless I'm missing your point, that is exactly what you folks are asking Andy to do here, on a public forum. Every vendor I've ever gotten a roadmap from (Intel, Sharp, etc) only do so in person with a signed NDA.
We did send out notices to all our customers, and especially pros, with notes into your control panel messaging system.
Did you miss these?
Andy, I haven't received any e-mail notifications. I usually don't check my "Control Panel" unless I need to change something, so having the messages there doesn't help. I usually find those messages after their effectiveness (ie. after the outage or upgrade).
Is there a way to get an e-mail notification? If yes, is there a way for me to get a "test" message so that I am sure our SPAM filtering system doesn't block messages from SM. Thanks.
Johnny J. Chin ~ J. Chin Photography Facebook ♦ Flickr ♦ SmugMug
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0
Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
...An extra-huge order NOT placed with smugmug. Maybe instead of scaring us away from pictage, you're convincing us to ditch smugmug and do everything thru WHCC, and collect/fulfill on our own. At least then it would be seamless. good idea!
It would be suicide for me to leave SmugMug. I simply do not have the time to take tons of different orders, keep track of who has paid me and who has not, keep track of which prints have been send to the lab and what goes to who, etc. etc. Collecting & fulfilling on my own is a sure fire way to get behind on work and get upset customers. In fact with my nearly-perfected SmugMug workflow, I've "replaced" a number of other photographers for children's theater photography. (Theater previously used the good 'ol "turnaround un-edited proofs in 24-48 and have an order-taking frenzy during a 20-30 min. intermission" business model, yuck!)
Yes, right now SmugMug is geared more towards that kind of event photography and mass print sales style pros... (And some of my galleries are public, if you really want to figure out how I crank up sales without having "package prices") And yes, right now my wedding business requires a couple outside orders.
But I guess I just don't know now to convince everyone of my afore-mentioned satisfaction-
They've got a BEAUTIFUL business workflow / model for some of the work I do, (theater / events) ...and Andy just stated that they're working on expanding their offerings to wedding etc. pros.
Now, if another wedding photographer that has done MANY weddings through SM would care to share his/her workflow, maybe I'll decide on something different. But I'd defintely going to be exploring options.
I'm sorry that my weddings aren't all viewable to the public so you'll never know how "many" SM weddings I've done, but here's my workflow:
Get paid pre-determined price that includes things like proofs / prints etc...
Shoot -> Bridge organize -> Bridge process / Photoshop retouch... (LR = blah, BR CS3 = yay!)
Effortlessly upload to SM bit by bit, notify couple when mostly online... (Pictage: FTP upload, then go online and follow a bunch of confusing steps to tell them you've uploaded and what the upload ID# is, then wait for them to "find" your upload, then wait for them to process and publish your upload. And if you don't follow the steps correctly, your photos never show up online... ARE YOU SERIOUS?)
But I digress,
Order proofs effortlessly through ROES, (WHCC) get sweet black borders w/ white stroke, very professional looking... (oh did I mention free 2nd day shipping?)
Show wedding album design, deliver proofs in person or via mail w/ CD...
Order album, (collect payment) deliver in person or at least look it over and then mail it myself...
All I'm saying is, I know of no other one-stop-shop that offers what SmugMug offers, and they're working as hard as they can to keep up with all the different industries.
Maybe SmugMug needs to offer a totally different variety of pro account, for ~$250 a year, that integrates all the stuff that wedding pros need? Pictage (the galleries and interface of which don't stand a chance against SmugMug) charges $1,200 a year, for comparison...
Maybe SmugMug needs to offer a totally different variety of pro account, for ~$250 a year, that integrates all the stuff that wedding pros need? Pictage (the galleries and interface of which don't stand a chance against SmugMug) charges $1,200 a year, for comparison...
Have you looked at Exposure Manager? They seem to offer most, if not all, of the often requested features here. Packages, discounts, coupons, branded cart, etc.
All I'm saying is, I know of no other one-stop-shop that offers what SmugMug offers, and they're working as hard as they can to keep up with all the different industries.
Other than vague responses about coming features, I'm curious why you think "they are working as hard as they can to keep up with all the different industries." If you read the CEO's blog it appears that the iPhone is getting all the attention right now. There are about 6 posts about the iPhone over the last few weeks, meanwhile the release notes are coming up on being 6 months behind. There have been new features added that I think directly affect the pros, specifically the meta tag being taken from your bio, but it goes undocumented after several months. In my opinion, this is simply not acceptable.
Really? Please post a link to the public bulletin board/forum where the Apple/IBM/MS brass discusses specifics of upcoming features or products, I'd really like to read that. Thanks!
Okay, sorry for the snide remark - it wasn't really called for. But unless I'm missing your point, that is exactly what you folks are asking Andy to do here, on a public forum. Every vendor I've ever gotten a roadmap from (Intel, Sharp, etc) only do so in person with a signed NDA.
Andy has recognized the point and has led me to believe SM will do something about it over time...which is the entire point of this - now too long - argument.
Directly to your comment - and it's not snide - my comments were about disclosing to customers, not to the general public...perhaps you've hit on something else? A section in the Wiki for customers only...perhaps, login protected? I don't know...that sounds like more work to me. Still, if it were my software, I'd make the level of info we're talking about available. I don't think it's giving away trade secrets, it's just giving a greater level of disposition to customer requests.
Have you looked at Exposure Manager? They seem to offer most, if not all, of the often requested features here. Packages, discounts, coupons, branded cart, etc.
All for only $99 a year with a $50 coupon for customers of other services.
Other than vague responses about coming features, I'm curious why you think "they are working as hard as they can to keep up with all the different industries." If you read the CEO's blog it appears that the iPhone is getting all the attention right now. There are about 6 posts about the iPhone over the last few weeks, meanwhile the release notes are coming up on being 6 months behind. There have been new features added that I think directly affect the pros, specifically the meta tag being taken from your bio, but it goes undocumented after several months. In my opinion, this is simply not acceptable.
-Scott
As they told me in an email....."We are NOT a gallery HOSTING company"...WE (Exposure Manager) are a Sales tool for professional photographers.
Otherwise they look pretty dang competative here..........................
As they told me in an email....."We are NOT a gallery HOSTING company"...WE (Exposure Manager) are a Sales tool for professional photographers.
Otherwise they look pretty dang competative here..........................
Hmm, if they're not a gallery hosting company, but yet their chart states they offer unlimited storage and galleries etc. etc ...then what are they lol? I'd be intersted, if it didn't turn out to be similarly horribly designed like Pictage.
Although upon close scrutiny, it doesn't look like they offer the things I'd like SmugMug to offer anyways, such as proof books, or just proof prints with borders / stroke, and album services. So no reason for me to switch.
And besides, having 10 gigs of photos on Smugmug, I'm not really just going to pick up camp and move even if the grass does get a little greener, I must admit. Smugmug meets my needs and I'm already acustomed to the interface. Now I know that doesn't mean anything to new users and they might just all flock to other hosts and SM's growth might just level off, but again, that's not what I'm seeing happening, yet...
And, in response to scwalter-
I am happy because I've been around for long enough to watch Smugmug evolve from where it started to where it is today, and I know that the kind of people living in Mountain View, CA are not dumb enough to kick up their feet at any time and just consider themselves to have a monopoly on the business. The debut of Zenfolio has surely proven that Smugmug must stay on top even in an industry that they helped pioneer. Now of course people living in the silicon valley in general are prone to obsess over Apple products every now and then and that's just something we'll have to learn to accept, but, okay okay I'm kidding, Don put down your dang iPhone and get back to work! Sheesh!
Comments
Thank you Andy for responding, I may not always agree with answers but at least when one takes the time to write out suggestions I for one appreciate a response. Since we will agree to disagree I more than likely as a "pro" user will move my business site in the next few months to another site that better fits my requirements. It is nothing personal, or emotional because I am not happy, its just plain business. Any good business owner should do what is right for their business, leaving emotional issues out of the fray.
As a personal user I will continue to use SM as I have over the past 2 1/2 years. It really is a great service for that purpose. I appreciate you at least considering the request to look at your policies on implementation of upcoming features.
Dan
Canon Gear
Agreed - I think this is an important point. If Smugmug doesn't currently meet your needs then MOVE ON instead of constantly demanding that they tell you when, if, or how they'll add the features you require.
I've been here for over 2 years and MANY of the features that people take for granted now were popular requests from users in years past. SM has a great track record of listening to its customers and implementing features that they want. However, I think this has bred a bit of an attitude of entitlement. They don't owe us anything other than what is advertised and the feature list isn't decided by a majority (or vocal minority) vote. Last I checked, Canon wasn't publishing a list of 40D specs -- even though people might head to Nikon if they weren't reassured that their feature requests were high on the list.
Some of the features people want so badly are tricky to implement as well. One example: people have repeatedly asked for branding in the shopping cart. This poses some problems as presently I can add photos from 5 different galleries (from differerent pro photographers) and check out with all of them in my cart at the same time. So which branding should be displayed?? There are also some security issues with allowing user definable custom code in a secure checkout environment.. Anyway, there are often more far-reaching issues that make clean implementation of some of our requests problematic.
I don't want to stir things up, but I thought I'd add another point of view...
I don't think Smugmug (or anyone who is in business) would take that approach. There is a loud enough ground-swell in the forums that these are clearly not a one-off requests...and SM is listening, as they should.
When I "Move On", I hope to leave the place in better shape than when I arrived.
Yes? How does that play into this discussion? What's wrong with, "That's a tricky request for several reasons, such as...but we like the idea and will try to implement it as soon as we work out the details...more to come!"...or..."We've looked at that and determined that for several reasons we will not be able to deliver that feature in the near term...sorry". Either response suffices.
Business people weigh cost and benefits - that's what determines priorities...if something is too tricky (read expensive) and doesn't deliver enough benefit it falls off the list. But being complicated is not reason alone to not do something.
I've been in the software business for a (too) long time! I've dealt with literally hundreds of software vendors, ALL of whom provide pipeline information to their customers (some have gone further to established advisory counsels with their best customers to discuss the pipeline) (including IBM, Apple, and Microsoft - I've been on them).
What opens up the door to competitors is an open forum wherein requests are made and a lack of formal disposition is returned. That spells opportunity to a competitor.
I also was not looking to stir up this place...in fact, it wasn't even my fight to fight...but I noticed, even in the short time I've been here, I was continuously frustrated by the lack of concrete response to ideas and suggestions and the original post rang true for me.
I see this as an issue which, if resolved, will improve Smugmug's reputation and make it an even more advantageous alternative for someone who needs a site to host their business. They will attract more "Pro" users and realize a smaller attrition rate...why fight that?
Peace.
- Gary.
Am I the ONLY pro who saw this reply and just about burst with glee?
I don't know how long the other posters in this thread have been around, but I've had a pro account since almost the beginning and honestly, it is the greatest feeling to see Andy post a reply like that. Why? Becuase I KNOW they're on it, and I know it will be SOON. I DO understand that it can be annoying to always get a "we're on it" reply if you don't actually KNOW how good they are at being "on it". But *I* know, so as soon as I see Andy say that I sit back and don't worry about it. It may take a month or two or three, but bottom line- SmugMug has had an amazing track record for enhancing the pro experience over the years, and they are above and beyond any other service out there...
Yes, I understand that it takes months to decide on a new feature and implement it. But SmugMug is by far the best gallery host out there, even for myself as a wedding photographer. Especially for the price. (And with the referral system, I end up paying $20-40 less EVERY year!)
Okay okay, if you want, go try Pictage. Yes, they offer proof books, albums, collections, discounts, etc. But you will come running back to SmugMug so fast I won't even have time to blink. Their actual gallery interface, for both the pro behind the scenes AND for the bride and the public, is truly nightmare-ish. And trust me, I'm a REALLY nice guy and I HATE to bash other productcs / companies.
Right now what works for me is to simply use SmugMug for what it can be used, and use WHCC for anything else. WHCC offers shipped-flat (and pre-mounted, which I always get) prints, and shipping is free 2nd-day too!
(Sorry SM gang, no more tubed prints for me. Even if EZprints can get them into the tube un-creased, MOUNTING a curly print is a whole different story...)
I Do however LOVE the new canvas prints offered by SmugMug!!!! Thank you guys!!!!
WHCC ALSO gives you candy if you place an extra-huge order, now how can you say no to that?!
So anyway, I hope this puts a LITTLE peace of mind into my fellow pro's heads. They're on it, worry not!
Sincerely,
Matthew Saville, long-time SmugMug pro user...
PS: I refer fellow wedding photographers to SM all the time. They are always smitten when I show them what SmugMug can do!
I've side-stepped the lack of "package / discount" sales in my own tricky way so I don't really need that feature to come pronto, but making CD / DVD's available directly to the customers is one thing I'm READY for. And Andy, make sure they offer different Resolution CD's, too! I don't want to sell my high-res originals of course, not because I'm greedy but just because I hate to see customers forced to print / mount / frame their own wedding photos, it strikes me as very un-professional. I want to only offer low / medium resolution CD's, and let couples come directly to me for large prints...
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Yes...a definite plus. Not really what I'm hoping for...but definitely ok.
Thanks for listening.
- Gary.
My first year is almost up. I joined after being told that holiday cards were "in the works" which never happened. I had to use Kinkos. I currently have to make and sell my own CDs of galleries. I am a wedding photographer and have to use a third party for albums. I have never been able to perfect my slide show and being forced to know/write css and java is a pain. I am being killed by my competitor's elegant websites. I really HATE to go to Pictage. They are so expensive. But, your lack of progess on things is frustrating. I guess you are going the stock photography route and leaving us portfolio, event, and wedding photographers behind. Wish you success, but I gotta go. Maybe you guys will finally "get it" when people stop complaining and just plain leave, like me.
So....what do you actually use smugmug for? 4x6es and 5x7s? and those customers that prefer uncut wallets?
...An extra-huge order NOT placed with smugmug. Maybe instead of scaring us away from pictage, you're convincing us to ditch smugmug and do everything thru WHCC, and collect/fulfill on our own. At least then it would be seamless. good idea!
Maybe let Andy in on your workaround so he can share it with us and we'd leave him alone!
But collecting funds different ways for four different products doesn't look unprofessional?
50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 24-70 2.8L, 35mm 1.4L, 135mm f2L
ST-E2 Transmitter + (3) 580 EXII + radio poppers
Would you like me to assign a specialist to you to get your site going the way you want? Just email me at the help desk, ATTN: Andy, and I'll make it so.
We have no intentions whatsoever of leaving portrait, event, wedding, photographers behind.
Thanks, and if you do leave, best of luck to you.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Andy, thanks for putting up the "what's going on" thread so that we know what you're working on now - that's very helpful!
As for what I'm going to be doing... For portrait sessions, I'll stick with SmugMug and if I do books for them, I'll figure out a good way to do them. It's not so hard for that.
But with my weddings, well... for now, I'm going to look around at options. With my level of frustration and the work I've had to do (that I don't feel I should have to), I'm just not happy with the crazy flow. It's frustrating to me and confusing and clunky for my clients.
Now, if another wedding photographer that has done MANY weddings through SM would care to share his/her workflow, maybe I'll decide on something different. But I'd defintely going to be exploring options.
And if SM starts to put out the things I need to keep my work flow sleek for me and my customers, I'll reconsider it.....
Thanks.
www.tippiepics.com
Okay, sorry for the snide remark - it wasn't really called for. But unless I'm missing your point, that is exactly what you folks are asking Andy to do here, on a public forum. Every vendor I've ever gotten a roadmap from (Intel, Sharp, etc) only do so in person with a signed NDA.
Andy, I haven't received any e-mail notifications. I usually don't check my "Control Panel" unless I need to change something, so having the messages there doesn't help. I usually find those messages after their effectiveness (ie. after the outage or upgrade).
Is there a way to get an e-mail notification? If yes, is there a way for me to get a "test" message so that I am sure our SPAM filtering system doesn't block messages from SM. Thanks.
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It would be suicide for me to leave SmugMug. I simply do not have the time to take tons of different orders, keep track of who has paid me and who has not, keep track of which prints have been send to the lab and what goes to who, etc. etc. Collecting & fulfilling on my own is a sure fire way to get behind on work and get upset customers. In fact with my nearly-perfected SmugMug workflow, I've "replaced" a number of other photographers for children's theater photography. (Theater previously used the good 'ol "turnaround un-edited proofs in 24-48 and have an order-taking frenzy during a 20-30 min. intermission" business model, yuck!)
Yes, right now SmugMug is geared more towards that kind of event photography and mass print sales style pros... (And some of my galleries are public, if you really want to figure out how I crank up sales without having "package prices") And yes, right now my wedding business requires a couple outside orders.
But I guess I just don't know now to convince everyone of my afore-mentioned satisfaction-
They've got a BEAUTIFUL business workflow / model for some of the work I do, (theater / events) ...and Andy just stated that they're working on expanding their offerings to wedding etc. pros.
I'm sorry that my weddings aren't all viewable to the public so you'll never know how "many" SM weddings I've done, but here's my workflow:
Get paid pre-determined price that includes things like proofs / prints etc...
Shoot -> Bridge organize -> Bridge process / Photoshop retouch...
(LR = blah, BR CS3 = yay!)
Effortlessly upload to SM bit by bit, notify couple when mostly online...
(Pictage: FTP upload, then go online and follow a bunch of confusing steps to tell them you've uploaded and what the upload ID# is, then wait for them to "find" your upload, then wait for them to process and publish your upload. And if you don't follow the steps correctly, your photos never show up online... ARE YOU SERIOUS?)
But I digress,
Order proofs effortlessly through ROES, (WHCC) get sweet black borders w/ white stroke, very professional looking...
(oh did I mention free 2nd day shipping?)
Show wedding album design, deliver proofs in person or via mail w/ CD...
Order album, (collect payment) deliver in person or at least look it over and then mail it myself...
All I'm saying is, I know of no other one-stop-shop that offers what SmugMug offers, and they're working as hard as they can to keep up with all the different industries.
Maybe SmugMug needs to offer a totally different variety of pro account, for ~$250 a year, that integrates all the stuff that wedding pros need? Pictage (the galleries and interface of which don't stand a chance against SmugMug) charges $1,200 a year, for comparison...
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
http://www.exposuremanager.com/scripts/website.pl?rm=compare
All for only $99 a year with a $50 coupon for customers of other services.
Other than vague responses about coming features, I'm curious why you think "they are working as hard as they can to keep up with all the different industries." If you read the CEO's blog it appears that the iPhone is getting all the attention right now. There are about 6 posts about the iPhone over the last few weeks, meanwhile the release notes are coming up on being 6 months behind. There have been new features added that I think directly affect the pros, specifically the meta tag being taken from your bio, but it goes undocumented after several months. In my opinion, this is simply not acceptable.
-Scott
scwalter.smugmug.com
Andy has recognized the point and has led me to believe SM will do something about it over time...which is the entire point of this - now too long - argument.
Directly to your comment - and it's not snide - my comments were about disclosing to customers, not to the general public...perhaps you've hit on something else? A section in the Wiki for customers only...perhaps, login protected? I don't know...that sounds like more work to me. Still, if it were my software, I'd make the level of info we're talking about available. I don't think it's giving away trade secrets, it's just giving a greater level of disposition to customer requests.
- Gary.
As they told me in an email....."We are NOT a gallery HOSTING company"...WE (Exposure Manager) are a Sales tool for professional photographers.
Otherwise they look pretty dang competative here..........................
Hmm, if they're not a gallery hosting company, but yet their chart states they offer unlimited storage and galleries etc. etc ...then what are they lol? I'd be intersted, if it didn't turn out to be similarly horribly designed like Pictage.
Although upon close scrutiny, it doesn't look like they offer the things I'd like SmugMug to offer anyways, such as proof books, or just proof prints with borders / stroke, and album services. So no reason for me to switch.
And besides, having 10 gigs of photos on Smugmug, I'm not really just going to pick up camp and move even if the grass does get a little greener, I must admit. Smugmug meets my needs and I'm already acustomed to the interface. Now I know that doesn't mean anything to new users and they might just all flock to other hosts and SM's growth might just level off, but again, that's not what I'm seeing happening, yet...
And, in response to scwalter-
I am happy because I've been around for long enough to watch Smugmug evolve from where it started to where it is today, and I know that the kind of people living in Mountain View, CA are not dumb enough to kick up their feet at any time and just consider themselves to have a monopoly on the business. The debut of Zenfolio has surely proven that Smugmug must stay on top even in an industry that they helped pioneer. Now of course people living in the silicon valley in general are prone to obsess over Apple products every now and then and that's just something we'll have to learn to accept, but, okay okay I'm kidding, Don put down your dang iPhone and get back to work! Sheesh!
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum