I took a quick look at the ISO 3200 sample and the ISO 6400 sample. Thanks for sharing... I must say that these look very good. Of course considering the cost of the camera, I would hope so.
Just to remember, the 1DsMarkII costs two thousand dollars more and I doubt you'll get this kind of low light performance from it. I wonder about the 1Ds Mark III? And let us not forget that the new Nikon D3 has ISO settings up to 25,600. We're entering a new world here and it appears for the moment at least that Nikon is leading the way, rather than Canon. I have no intention to switch systems, but the D3 really appears to be a dream camera with full-frame, incredible low-light performance, speed to burn coupled with Nikon's exceptional ergonomics. I recently shot with a friend's D200 and it is much easier to handle than my 5D. Despite the fact it costs less than half what the 5D cost me, it has better build as well. Nikon appears to be offering some strong alternatives to camera buyers at the moment. The competition will be good for all of us.
I took a quick look at the ISO 3200 sample and the ISO 6400 sample. Thanks for sharing... I must say that these look very good. Of course considering the cost of the camera, I would hope so.
Just to remember, the 1DsMarkII costs two thousand dollars more and I doubt you'll get this kind of low light performance from it. I wonder about the 1Ds Mark III? And let us not forget that the new Nikon D3 has ISO settings up to 25,600. We're entering a new world here and it appears for the moment at least that Nikon is leading the way, rather than Canon. I have no intention to switch systems, but the D3 really appears to be a dream camera with full-frame, incredible low-light performance, speed to burn coupled with Nikon's exceptional ergonomics. I recently shot with a friend's D200 and it is much easier to handle than my 5D. Despite the fact it costs less than half what the 5D cost me, it has better build as well. Nikon appears to be offering some strong alternatives to camera buyers at the moment. The competition will be good for all of us.
I tried both the d3 and the d300 at a local Nikon thing yesterday. The ergonomics of both cameras are great! I also got to look at some A3 prints from iso 25600.. amazing! If I didn't have lots of canon gear and if I didn't plan to wait till 2010 before a new cam, I would be set..
First D3 and D300 sample images
Nikon has released its first sampel images for the D3 and the D300. The D3 samples include and a ISO 3200 and 6400 shot while the D300 samples were both done at ISO200.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Really nice samples and was impressed that they had links for the much larger photos to be scrutinized by the local scrutinizer.....oops slipped into a Zappa moment ther for a second....
Nikon has released its first sampel images for the D3 and the D300. The D3 samples include and a ISO 3200 and 6400 shot while the D300 samples were both done at ISO200.
ISO 6400 image is truly impressive. Not even a hint of color noise. Awesome!
ISO 6400 image is truly impressive. Not even a hint of color noise. Awesome!
One thing I noticed is that in the darker parts of the image and even some of the middle tones there is a "hint" of color noise, but very close to black the noise is completely quenched. It is a type of DSP I haven't seen before, although you can do it with manual processing.
One thing I noticed is that in the darker parts of the image and even some of the middle tones there is a "hint" of color noise, but very close to black the noise is completely quenched. It is a type of DSP I haven't seen before, although you can do it with manual processing.
Extremely encouraging!
I wonder is this is JPEG-based "style" feature, or is it what you get in RAW already.
The ISO 6400 images show clear evidence of luminance noise reduction, but are still plenty usable. I do wonder what the RAW files are going to look like in ACR which presumably won't benefit Nikon's fancy noise reduction algorithm.
Overall I don't see a big difference between those images and noise reduced ISO 1600 RAW files from a Canon 5D (which I spend a lot of time looking at). I wouldn't be too surprised if, when all the pixel peeping is said and done, that the D3 will judged to have a small advantage over Canon's latest 1 series offerings in high ISO response. It does make you wonder if this will put pressure on Canon to bring out an upgrade to the 5D.
The Canon 5D was announced over 2 years ago. Isn't it about time for a 5Ds or something?
16 MegaPixels, 5 frames per second, ISO (really big number here) ...
The 5D is essentially a 30D with a full frame sensor in it so I wouldn't be too surprised to see Canon do the same thing with the 40D. I am betting on more like 14MP than 16MP so they have more than the D3 but don't eat into 1Ds sales. Also keeping the pixel pitch low will help them match the D3 noise performance.
What I'd really like is something more akin to my old EOS-3 with a 1 series AF system and shutter in a smaller lightwight body; albeit weather sealing would be nice. I am not likely to upgrade just to get a better sensor; the 5D sensor is good enough for my needs. I would, however, consider upgrading to get those 19 high sensitivity cross-type AF points and a faster flash sync speed as long as I don't have to pay the 1 series size and weight penalty to get it.
Nikon has released its first sampel images for the D3 and the D300. The D3 samples include and a ISO 3200 and 6400 shot while the D300 samples were both done at ISO200.
Wow.. extremely nice. The D3 is on my wish list for next year.
This is a huge step for Nikon. The 3200 & 6400 images are amazingly clear. OK, so they look a bit noise-reduced & are equal to or a hair cleaner than 5D images. That's huge considering where Nikon's high ISO noise used to be. This certainly puts pressure on Canon for their next generation.
Oh, and having seen the high ISO output from a 1DsMkII, it's about on par with these, IIRC. I'll comment further after I use one for a weekend shoot later this month & have a sizable batch of my own RAWs to play with.
Someone that was at the launch event posted on another forum saying that all the samples thus far are in-camera JPG's since they had not finalized the RAW yet so the pre-production cameras were only doing JPG's. I'll have to take them at their word, but other than someone saying that, I can verify that is correct. I do know that all the EXIF info I've seen from samples and leaked Osaka games photos seem to be shot in JPG, not RAW. So if that's the case, one can assume the RAW files will be even a little bit better?
Someone that was at the launch event posted on another forum saying that all the samples thus far are in-camera JPG's since they had not finalized the RAW yet so the pre-production cameras were only doing JPG's. I'll have to take them at their word, but other than someone saying that, I can verify that is correct. I do know that all the EXIF info I've seen from samples and leaked Osaka games photos seem to be shot in JPG, not RAW. So if that's the case, one can assume the RAW files will be even a little bit better?
Until we get independant reviews based on "production" cameras, I would not recommend drawing too many conclusions. We just don't know the conditions these images were shot under or any post-processing that might have been done.
I would say that these are astonishingly good images if they are in fact representative. I just don't know for sure if they are representative.
This is a huge step for Nikon. The 3200 & 6400 images are amazingly clear. OK, so they look a bit noise-reduced & are equal to or a hair cleaner than 5D images. That's huge considering where Nikon's high ISO noise used to be. This certainly puts pressure on Canon for their next generation.
Oh, and having seen the high ISO output from a 1DsMkII, it's about on par with these, IIRC. I'll comment further after I use one for a weekend shoot later this month & have a sizable batch of my own RAWs to play with.
Chris,
We probably should not hijack this thread and talk too much about Canon. If you want to start another thread and do a comparison that would be fine.
Wow...its shocking how clear the ISO6400 photo is at the focal point...to me, its a game changer - taking pics that weren't possible before now...
- Mike
It's UNBELIEVABLE! Seriously, it's like magic. I'm totally floored. Now I'm depressed, My D200 bums me out now. I'll have to wait another 5 years until the D3 is some pro photographers cheap cast-off that he is pawning to get the new D5 which, by the way, will take noiseless pictures of dark matter.:cry :cry :cry
We probably should not hijack this thread and talk too much about Canon. If you want to start another thread and do a comparison that would be fine.
This is Nikon's time to celebrate!
No intention of hijacking. If the thread is still alive once I've gotten my grubby paws all over that camera, I'll limit to what I intended: are the files I get similar to these samples.
I would think the Nikon samples are probably the best representation of the potential we've seen was they show the complete settings for the image: shutter, aperture, ISO being the most important, but they also include what lens (their 24-70/2.8 on most all IIRC). That gives a fairly good idea of the conditions & you can go replicate those settings on a competing camera to compare--at least as well as can be done on cross-system comparisons.
Anyway, it certainly appears Nikon has delivered on the promise of the specs. It also should give Canon a big kick in the pants to go innovate again.
THat is some impressive work! The D3 goes up to 25600? With ISOs getting up that high pretty soon we won't have to spend as much money on fast glass!! Serosuly, how long before the super high (and noise free) ISOs starts to diminish the need for fast glass. Obviously there will always be situations where faster is better, but for the hobbyist it's possible that f/3.5 could soon be as fast as you would need! That is if 25600 is actually useable.
If this should go somewhere else by all means I don't want to hijack anything!
THat is some impressive work! The D3 goes up to 25600? With ISOs getting up that high pretty soon we won't have to spend as much money on fast glass!! Serosuly, how long before the super high (and noise free) ISOs starts to diminish the need for fast glass. Obviously there will always be situations where faster is better, but for the hobbyist it's possible that f/3.5 could soon be as fast as you would need! That is if 25600 is actually useable.
If this should go somewhere else by all means I don't want to hijack anything!
Good question. The thing to remember is that you get the best results on the lower ISOs. Its cool to be able to shoot at high ISOs but I've seen folks shoot at ISO 1000 on a sunny day just because they could.
The "fast" glass usually is the highest quality glass and will usually get you the best results if used properly. The good thing about the ability to shoot at higher ISOs is that you don't need to get the "fastest" glass.
Unless you are a lunatic like myself you really don't need the "fast" glass. Of course if you can afford it, why not get the best.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Good question. The thing to remember is that you get the best results on the lower ISOs. Its cool to be able to shoot at high ISOs but I've seen folks shoot at ISO 1000 on a sunny day just because they could.
The "fast" glass usually is the highest quality glass and will usually get you the best results if used properly. The good thing about the ability to shoot at higher ISOs is that you don't need to get the "fastest" glass.
Unless you are a lunatic like myself you really don't need the "fast" glass. Of course if you can afford it, why not get the best.
I know I would have been wiser to wait, but for a few reasons I have just bit the bullet and ordered the d300 My d70 has some busted pixels and is producing vertical lines from a bright spot all the way to the bottom of the pic in two different areas of ALL my shots. Looking forward to getting the d300. Just hoping there is no delay on the expetced November release.
Rhuarc, there's a few other things fast glass gives you that the ever-higher clean ISO settings don't change. 1) a brighter viewfinder, 2) improved AF (remember, Canon's prosumer cameras only go into high-accuracy mode with f2.8 or faster glass), 3) subject separation via shallow DOF.
For what I do, if I could afford a 1D Mk III & it's ISO6400, that would allow me to stop the lens down one stop for the shot (thus getting me closer to the sharpness sweet spot), but I'd still want at least f2.8 to give the AF a better view, and to help me compose.
Well the iso6400 is impressive, but its a dark photo which does a good job at hiding the noise that is there. Check out the white shirt in the background thats slightly blurred out. You'll see the noise there. Still, its really great results but its not like its a iso100 shot either.
No more unwanted or unwarranted comments or comparisons to try and detract from the Nikon celebration of these rather fantastic new cameras in this thread or the " New Nikon Info Finally Released". Violators will get a couple of days off.
If you want to compare cameras, start a new thread and keep it civil.
Comments
- Mike
IR Modified Sony F717
http://2H2OPhoto.smugmug.com
Very nice indeed...
Lee
Marin Country, California
Canon EOS 5D, 17-40 f/4L, 20-35 f/2.8L, 28-70 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/4L, 70-200 f/2.8L
24 f/1.4L, 35 f/1.4L, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8, 85 f/1.2L, 135 f/2L, 300 f/4L IS
OSX Addict
I tried both the d3 and the d300 at a local Nikon thing yesterday. The ergonomics of both cameras are great! I also got to look at some A3 prints from iso 25600.. amazing! If I didn't have lots of canon gear and if I didn't plan to wait till 2010 before a new cam, I would be set..
Canon EOS 30D, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 70-200 f/2.8, Sigma 18-50 f/2.8, Tokina 12-24 f/4. Sigma 1.4 TC, Feisol 3401 Tripod + Feisol ballhead, Metz 58 AF-1 C, ebay triggers.
Nikon has released its first sampel images for the D3 and the D300. The D3 samples include and a ISO 3200 and 6400 shot while the D300 samples were both done at ISO200.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Thanx for the linx HArry.
ISO 6400 image is truly impressive. Not even a hint of color noise. Awesome!
Carry on with the discussion.
Thanks,
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
One thing I noticed is that in the darker parts of the image and even some of the middle tones there is a "hint" of color noise, but very close to black the noise is completely quenched. It is a type of DSP I haven't seen before, although you can do it with manual processing.
Extremely encouraging!
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
I wonder is this is JPEG-based "style" feature, or is it what you get in RAW already.
Overall I don't see a big difference between those images and noise reduced ISO 1600 RAW files from a Canon 5D (which I spend a lot of time looking at). I wouldn't be too surprised if, when all the pixel peeping is said and done, that the D3 will judged to have a small advantage over Canon's latest 1 series offerings in high ISO response. It does make you wonder if this will put pressure on Canon to bring out an upgrade to the 5D.
The Canon 5D was announced over 2 years ago. Isn't it about time for a 5Ds or something?
16 MegaPixels, 5 frames per second, ISO (really big number here) ...
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
The 5D is essentially a 30D with a full frame sensor in it so I wouldn't be too surprised to see Canon do the same thing with the 40D. I am betting on more like 14MP than 16MP so they have more than the D3 but don't eat into 1Ds sales. Also keeping the pixel pitch low will help them match the D3 noise performance.
What I'd really like is something more akin to my old EOS-3 with a 1 series AF system and shutter in a smaller lightwight body; albeit weather sealing would be nice. I am not likely to upgrade just to get a better sensor; the 5D sensor is good enough for my needs. I would, however, consider upgrading to get those 19 high sensitivity cross-type AF points and a faster flash sync speed as long as I don't have to pay the 1 series size and weight penalty to get it.
Wow.. extremely nice. The D3 is on my wish list for next year.
Thanks for the link!
This is a huge step for Nikon. The 3200 & 6400 images are amazingly clear. OK, so they look a bit noise-reduced & are equal to or a hair cleaner than 5D images. That's huge considering where Nikon's high ISO noise used to be. This certainly puts pressure on Canon for their next generation.
Oh, and having seen the high ISO output from a 1DsMkII, it's about on par with these, IIRC. I'll comment further after I use one for a weekend shoot later this month & have a sizable batch of my own RAWs to play with.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
Until we get independant reviews based on "production" cameras, I would not recommend drawing too many conclusions. We just don't know the conditions these images were shot under or any post-processing that might have been done.
I would say that these are astonishingly good images if they are in fact representative. I just don't know for sure if they are representative.
I have my fingers crossed and I am very hopeful.
Looking good Nikon!
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Chris,
We probably should not hijack this thread and talk too much about Canon. If you want to start another thread and do a comparison that would be fine.
This is Nikon's time to celebrate!
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Anyone remember i said "Nikon may produce something that will blow all canons"
My Gallery
It's UNBELIEVABLE! Seriously, it's like magic. I'm totally floored. Now I'm depressed, My D200 bums me out now. I'll have to wait another 5 years until the D3 is some pro photographers cheap cast-off that he is pawning to get the new D5 which, by the way, will take noiseless pictures of dark matter.:cry :cry :cry
hoping this message finds you well -Ian
No intention of hijacking. If the thread is still alive once I've gotten my grubby paws all over that camera, I'll limit to what I intended: are the files I get similar to these samples.
I would think the Nikon samples are probably the best representation of the potential we've seen was they show the complete settings for the image: shutter, aperture, ISO being the most important, but they also include what lens (their 24-70/2.8 on most all IIRC). That gives a fairly good idea of the conditions & you can go replicate those settings on a competing camera to compare--at least as well as can be done on cross-system comparisons.
Anyway, it certainly appears Nikon has delivered on the promise of the specs. It also should give Canon a big kick in the pants to go innovate again.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
If this should go somewhere else by all means I don't want to hijack anything!
Good question. The thing to remember is that you get the best results on the lower ISOs. Its cool to be able to shoot at high ISOs but I've seen folks shoot at ISO 1000 on a sunny day just because they could.
The "fast" glass usually is the highest quality glass and will usually get you the best results if used properly. The good thing about the ability to shoot at higher ISOs is that you don't need to get the "fastest" glass.
Unless you are a lunatic like myself you really don't need the "fast" glass. Of course if you can afford it, why not get the best.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I love shooting at F1.4 or 1.8 depending on whether Im wearing the 50 or the 85 today...
Have to say the noise looks good so far - I rarely shoot my D2x at more than 320 - makes weddings a real pain in the ass
Do we know if the D300 will offer similar performance - Im very tempted to get one and skip a Nikon generation, rent a D3 when I need to...
chris
http://www.michaelhelbigphotography.com
http://www.thewildpig.blogspot.com
For what I do, if I could afford a 1D Mk III & it's ISO6400, that would allow me to stop the lens down one stop for the shot (thus getting me closer to the sharpness sweet spot), but I'd still want at least f2.8 to give the AF a better view, and to help me compose.
But then I'm a lunatic, too.:crazy
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
If you want to compare cameras, start a new thread and keep it civil.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Haven't see anyone mention this yet, some amazing "real world" shots from a D3: http://cliffmautner.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/09/ok-its-after-1a.html
http://wall-art.smugmug.com/