I have been hemming and hawing about Travis' entry "Ariel" myself because as an image it is my personal favorite of this round. Beautful, evocative, different. What more can you ask for?
Well, I can see someone saying that it doesn't satisfy the theme. Sin and Virtue are arugably human traits and applied to us mortals who were granted the choice between good and evil.
None of this takes away from the fact that "Ariel" is a fantastic image.
Ken, thanks for the compliment however I'm going to have to disagree on sin and virtue being human traits. The following is taken from Merriam-Websters Dictionary:
" Main Entry: vir·tue
Pronunciation: 'v&r-(")chü
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English vertu, virtu, from Anglo-French, from Latin virtut-, virtus strength, manliness, virtue, from vir man -- more at [SIZE=-1]VIRILE[/SIZE] 1 a: conformity to a standard of right : [SIZE=-1]MORALITY[/SIZE]b: a particular moral excellence 2plural: an order of angels -- see [SIZE=-1]CELESTIAL HIERARCHY[/SIZE] 3: a beneficial quality or power of a thing 4: manly strength or courage : [SIZE=-1]VALOR[/SIZE] 5: a commendable quality or trait : [SIZE=-1]MERIT[/SIZE] 6: a capacity to act : [SIZE=-1]POTENCY[/SIZE] 7: chastity especially in a woman "
In addition, the following was taken from Wikipedia:
"Virtue can also be meant in another way. Virtue can either have normative or moral value; i.e. the virtue of a knife is to cut, the virtue of an excellent knife is to cut well (this is its normative value) vs. the virtues of reason, prudence, chastity, etc. (which have moral value)."
So that begs the question that if a KNIFE can be virtuous than why not an angel? And if you take into account the multiple posts referencing Dante's Inferno, were angels not understood to be in a battle of good and evil which can be construed as sin and virtue?
Furthermore, it is not okay to create a symbolic image as opposed to a literal and have it fit a theme? Obviously it is only a question that the judges can make for themselves. This is the more important question facing this competition because it directly impacts how many of us will choose to depict future themes. Do we squash creativity in our interpretation and approach to perform straightforward depictions of the theme at hand?
Something that I noticed from many of the entries is that they specifically identified the sin or virtue that they were depicting in the title of the photo. Either a more creative title couldn't be determined or they lacked the confidence in the judges to correctly interpret what they were trying to convey.
I didn't plan on carrying this conversation out even further so please forgive me for those of you who are getting bored with it. It just so happens that my dog got me up at 3:30 am and being an insomniac, I have nothing better to do. LPS12 is over and it is not my intention to lobby for my image (if you read my previous posts, I never did that in the first place).
What I'm trying to do is reconcile in my mind what approach to take in the future. Unlike some here, I'm not tied to either school of composite verse non-composite. I've entered both depending on the theme and I don't really think it is an issue as long as it is done well. I'm more concerned with whether I should shoot the theme straightforward or find something that I consider more expressive.
Take for instance the latest theme, is light and shadow to only be taken as dark and light areas or does a lighthouse suffice where the "light" is really only a secondary subject? How about unlit bulb or flashlight where the light is implied?
Most of this rambling mess is rhetorical and is not directed at Ken - he just happened to post a very good illustration of how the interpretation of theme can be different amongst individuals.
Okay, I'm either going back to bed or heading out to find something shadowy or light to shoot. Have a great morning y'all!
Personal opinions? Sure. I would hope that these would be opinions that are informed opinions based on familiarity with the craft, and I know that in at least one case, they are or ought to be. I don't know who the temporary judges are.
Personal relationships to a lesser extent? I disagree. Personal relationships should have exactly zero influence on this. To the extent that they do, the process is corrupt. I am not certain if they do or not.
Even personal subjectivity ought not be entirely subjective.
I agree and what I was stating isn't that it is right, only that it is. Although personal relationships and subjectivity should not have an impact in the judging process, it is human nature and we would be remissed not to recognize that fact. It is especially true in a forum where many cut-to-the-bone critiques are delivered - although each of us knows that the critique process is important for personal growth, it still stings when someone's vision is criticized. It is only natural that it carries over to a predisposition in judging.
I'll use myself as an example... In my one failed attempt at judging, I internally struggled with an image because it just so happened that I didn't agree with the photographer's assessment of my photo in a previous round, one that also had high non-official vote. The image, though, was great. It took a lot to admit to myself of the reason for my initial predaliction not to vote for it and I ended up placing it in my top-10. I have to believe that others struggle the same way in voting and not all of them overcome the bias.
So yea, these things should not have an impact, but they do and we need to recognize it as a factor in the judging - good, bad, or indifferent.
All right, now I'm really going to bed. I never was one for debates other than "the less filling, tastes great kind".
Active you've been at this late hour! Hey, the only reason I'm up is that I've got 160 galleries to create for this weekend's event. I use Nik's Star uploader, but the only time Smugmug's servers seem to accept the huge transaction is after the west coast goes to bed... There're about 5 hours here when bandwidth usage world-wide is at it's daily low, I suspect!
I must say about your Ariel, after looking at is for several days now, what makes it so special is that almost indescribable smile on the girl's face. It's as unique as Mona Lisa's. How you caugt that one is the mystery.
Ever developed film to see something there that wasn't there when you pressed the shutter release?
I must say about your Ariel, after looking at is for several days now, what makes it so special is that almost indescribable smile on the girl's face. It's as unique as Mona Lisa's. How you caugt that one is the mystery.
Ever developed film to see something there that wasn't there when you pressed the shutter release?
Gald to see I'm not the only one up. If those west coasters only knew about all of the activity while they slept soundly.
That was Savannah's attempt to look distressed. It was more impatience with the photographer.
The first time I developed an image had a "stranger" in it, it scared the bejesus out of me. I thought it was some spirit. Turns out some guy had "ran" through the left side of the photo. Very strange looking!
Well, the batch transaction took, so I'm back again...
I was taking sorority group photos for the yearbook, it was the Chi-O's, and when we developed the film and took a print, there was an old man standing behind the group on the porch... No one remembers the fellow being there, and no one recognized him...
Spooooky....
So I suppose the smile wasn't a smile afterall... just a "would ya hurry up..."
So yea, these things should not have an impact, but they do and we need to recognize it as a factor in the judging - good, bad, or indifferent.
Has anyone ever suggested that the photos should be submitted to the judges sans name and title and let them stand on their own merit? It would seem that a greater degree of impartiality would be achieved in this manner.
Has anyone ever suggested that the photos should be submitted to the judges sans name and title and let them stand on their own merit? It would seem that a greater degree of impartiality would be achieved in this manner.
Yes, this has been mentioned in many previous threads/discussions. The way LPS works is what sets it apart and makes it a unique experience and learning opportunity PRIOR to judging.
Has anyone ever suggested that the photos should be submitted to the judges sans name and title and let them stand on their own merit? It would seem that a greater degree of impartiality would be achieved in this manner.
It was discussed at length about 6 months ago. There are a whole lot of reasons why it doesn't work in a small community like ours.
My personal taken is that Last Photographer Standing is a completition between photographers, not a competition between photos. The elimination format is more like American Idol or Survivor than it is like a traditional photo competition. As such, it is not entirely out of place that your reputation counts for something. Shay has said many times that his view of the competition is to prepare us for the cutthroat world of commercial photography where, no matter how good your porfolio, you aren't going to take a lot of jobs away from Annie Liebowitz.
It was discussed at length about 6 months ago. There are a whole lot of reasons why it doesn't work in a small community like ours.
My personal taken is that Last Photographer Standing is a completition between photographers, not a competition between photos. The elimination format is more like American Idol or Survivor than it is like a traditional photo competition. As such, it is not entirely out of place that your reputation counts for something. Shay has said many times that his view of the competition is to prepare us for the cutthroat world of commercial photography where, no matter how good your porfolio, you aren't going to take a lot of jobs away from Annie Liebowitz.
Well that certainly puts it into perspective! My assumption was that a photo would stand on it's own. Now I gotta include a sales pitch and a little payola!
Well that certainly puts it into perspective! My assumption was that a photo would stand on it's own. Now I gotta include a sales pitch and a little payola!
Well that certainly puts it into perspective! My assumption was that a photo would stand on it's own. Now I gotta include a sales pitch and a little payola!
I my experience with this competition your image does have to stand on its own and strong entries do well no matter where they come from. I believe Greensquared's entry Soil Sample was her first ever post in these forums and that shot didn't break a sweat as it cruised into first place. It was only later that, much to all of our benefit, she became something of a regular in this forum.
I don't think there is much real favoritism in the judging. Most of the judges are not active participants and the judging pool changes from week to week.
I my experience with this competition your image does have to stand on its own and strong entries do well no matter where they come from. I believe Greensquared's entry Soil Sample was her first ever post in these forums and that shot didn't break a sweat as it cruised into first place. It was only later that, much to all of our benefit, she became something of a regular in this forum.
I don't think there is much real favoritism in the judging. Most of the judges are not active participants and the judging pool changes from week to week.
Thank you very much for the compliment. Yes, Soil Sample was my first ever post, and actually had absolutely no pp other than a slight crop. I try to remember that myself whenever I'm feeling that a simple shot just won't make it.
I my experience with this competition your image does have to stand on its own and strong entries do well no matter where they come from. I believe Greensquared's entry Soil Sample was her first ever post in these forums and that shot didn't break a sweat as it cruised into first place. It was only later that, much to all of our benefit, she became something of a regular in this forum.
I don't think there is much real favoritism in the judging. Most of the judges are not active participants and the judging pool changes from week to week.
My entry was my first post as well. While I did not win, I did get passed through to the next level.
Comments
It made me laugh.
Peace, gail
I could be grossly mistaken - but other than LPS#3, I do not recall you choosing any of my entries since, for your top 10.
I am quite excited that I was finally able to move you to such an extent that resulted in being included in your list again.
Thank you!
" Main Entry: vir·tue
Pronunciation: 'v&r-(")chü
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English vertu, virtu, from Anglo-French, from Latin virtut-, virtus strength, manliness, virtue, from vir man -- more at [SIZE=-1]VIRILE[/SIZE]
1 a : conformity to a standard of right : [SIZE=-1]MORALITY[/SIZE] b : a particular moral excellence
2 plural : an order of angels -- see [SIZE=-1]CELESTIAL HIERARCHY[/SIZE]
3 : a beneficial quality or power of a thing
4 : manly strength or courage : [SIZE=-1]VALOR[/SIZE]
5 : a commendable quality or trait : [SIZE=-1]MERIT[/SIZE]
6 : a capacity to act : [SIZE=-1]POTENCY[/SIZE]
7 : chastity especially in a woman "
In addition, the following was taken from Wikipedia:
"Virtue can also be meant in another way. Virtue can either have normative or moral value; i.e. the virtue of a knife is to cut, the virtue of an excellent knife is to cut well (this is its normative value) vs. the virtues of reason, prudence, chastity, etc. (which have moral value)."
So that begs the question that if a KNIFE can be virtuous than why not an angel? And if you take into account the multiple posts referencing Dante's Inferno, were angels not understood to be in a battle of good and evil which can be construed as sin and virtue?
Furthermore, it is not okay to create a symbolic image as opposed to a literal and have it fit a theme? Obviously it is only a question that the judges can make for themselves. This is the more important question facing this competition because it directly impacts how many of us will choose to depict future themes. Do we squash creativity in our interpretation and approach to perform straightforward depictions of the theme at hand?
Something that I noticed from many of the entries is that they specifically identified the sin or virtue that they were depicting in the title of the photo. Either a more creative title couldn't be determined or they lacked the confidence in the judges to correctly interpret what they were trying to convey.
I didn't plan on carrying this conversation out even further so please forgive me for those of you who are getting bored with it. It just so happens that my dog got me up at 3:30 am and being an insomniac, I have nothing better to do. LPS12 is over and it is not my intention to lobby for my image (if you read my previous posts, I never did that in the first place).
What I'm trying to do is reconcile in my mind what approach to take in the future. Unlike some here, I'm not tied to either school of composite verse non-composite. I've entered both depending on the theme and I don't really think it is an issue as long as it is done well. I'm more concerned with whether I should shoot the theme straightforward or find something that I consider more expressive.
Take for instance the latest theme, is light and shadow to only be taken as dark and light areas or does a lighthouse suffice where the "light" is really only a secondary subject? How about unlit bulb or flashlight where the light is implied?
Most of this rambling mess is rhetorical and is not directed at Ken - he just happened to post a very good illustration of how the interpretation of theme can be different amongst individuals.
Okay, I'm either going back to bed or heading out to find something shadowy or light to shoot.
My Images | My Lessons Learned and Other Adventures
I'll use myself as an example... In my one failed attempt at judging, I internally struggled with an image because it just so happened that I didn't agree with the photographer's assessment of my photo in a previous round, one that also had high non-official vote. The image, though, was great. It took a lot to admit to myself of the reason for my initial predaliction not to vote for it and I ended up placing it in my top-10. I have to believe that others struggle the same way in voting and not all of them overcome the bias.
So yea, these things should not have an impact, but they do and we need to recognize it as a factor in the judging - good, bad, or indifferent.
All right, now I'm really going to bed. I never was one for debates other than "the less filling, tastes great kind".
My Images | My Lessons Learned and Other Adventures
Active you've been at this late hour! Hey, the only reason I'm up is that I've got 160 galleries to create for this weekend's event. I use Nik's Star uploader, but the only time Smugmug's servers seem to accept the huge transaction is after the west coast goes to bed... There're about 5 hours here when bandwidth usage world-wide is at it's daily low, I suspect!
I must say about your Ariel, after looking at is for several days now, what makes it so special is that almost indescribable smile on the girl's face. It's as unique as Mona Lisa's. How you caugt that one is the mystery.
Ever developed film to see something there that wasn't there when you pressed the shutter release?
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Gald to see I'm not the only one up. If those west coasters only knew about all of the activity while they slept soundly.
That was Savannah's attempt to look distressed.
The first time I developed an image had a "stranger" in it, it scared the bejesus out of me. I thought it was some spirit. Turns out some guy had "ran" through the left side of the photo. Very strange looking!
Get back to work!
My Images | My Lessons Learned and Other Adventures
I was taking sorority group photos for the yearbook, it was the Chi-O's, and when we developed the film and took a print, there was an old man standing behind the group on the porch... No one remembers the fellow being there, and no one recognized him...
Spooooky....
So I suppose the smile wasn't a smile afterall... just a "would ya hurry up..."
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Has anyone ever suggested that the photos should be submitted to the judges sans name and title and let them stand on their own merit? It would seem that a greater degree of impartiality would be achieved in this manner.
Yes, this has been mentioned in many previous threads/discussions. The way LPS works is what sets it apart and makes it a unique experience and learning opportunity PRIOR to judging.
It was discussed at length about 6 months ago. There are a whole lot of reasons why it doesn't work in a small community like ours.
My personal taken is that Last Photographer Standing is a completition between photographers, not a competition between photos. The elimination format is more like American Idol or Survivor than it is like a traditional photo competition. As such, it is not entirely out of place that your reputation counts for something. Shay has said many times that his view of the competition is to prepare us for the cutthroat world of commercial photography where, no matter how good your porfolio, you aren't going to take a lot of jobs away from Annie Liebowitz.
Well that certainly puts it into perspective! My assumption was that a photo would stand on it's own. Now I gotta include a sales pitch and a little payola!
At least your LPS13 entry is green!
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
And I'm gonna call it "Annie Liebowitz". Can't leave anything to chance!
I my experience with this competition your image does have to stand on its own and strong entries do well no matter where they come from. I believe Greensquared's entry Soil Sample was her first ever post in these forums and that shot didn't break a sweat as it cruised into first place. It was only later that, much to all of our benefit, she became something of a regular in this forum.
I don't think there is much real favoritism in the judging. Most of the judges are not active participants and the judging pool changes from week to week.
Thank you very much for the compliment. Yes, Soil Sample was my first ever post, and actually had absolutely no pp other than a slight crop. I try to remember that myself whenever I'm feeling that a simple shot just won't make it.
www.feliciabphotography.com
My entry was my first post as well. While I did not win, I did get passed through to the next level.