A hypothetical you've all heard before......
........goes like this. You have zero, zilch, nada dSLR equipment. You're ready for the leap to said dSLR area. You're also capping your initial expenditure to a random sum of $1,500. Now, you can buy a Canon D40 with a 28-135mm IS for that sum or you can go as low as a Canon Rebel XT with 18-55mm kit lens for $400. The latter leaves a lot left over for the other amenities that go along with a dSLR. i.e. more lenses, external flash etc. You know the routine. The same route can be applied to Nikons with the D80 in consideration down to the D40/40X. Not exactly ruling out Pentax, Olympus etal. either. 
Big question, which route to take considering that no more money will be expended for at least a year after the initial dSLR purchase.
Photographing grandkids and sometimes their related sports. Small birds especially hummingbirds. Racing photography including stock cars on a quarter mile dirt track and go karts on a one tenth mile dirt track. All these are very important.
Of course this is me and I have no clue which way to go. Looking for a few of you to push me over the edge or push me back so I don't fall accidentally.
Hope this is enough information.
BTW, I know on the high end that there's barely enough money left to buy a memory card and a case to protect your investment. Oh, and I'd like about 20,000 replies to this thread.
Bud
Big question, which route to take considering that no more money will be expended for at least a year after the initial dSLR purchase.
Photographing grandkids and sometimes their related sports. Small birds especially hummingbirds. Racing photography including stock cars on a quarter mile dirt track and go karts on a one tenth mile dirt track. All these are very important.
Of course this is me and I have no clue which way to go. Looking for a few of you to push me over the edge or push me back so I don't fall accidentally.
Hope this is enough information.
BTW, I know on the high end that there's barely enough money left to buy a memory card and a case to protect your investment. Oh, and I'd like about 20,000 replies to this thread.
Bud
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Most of my shooting of my Grandkids has been indoors and my “kit” lens, a 18-55mm F/3.5-5.6, is in no way fast enough so a good flash is an absolute necessity. I also realized within days of bring my camera home that was going to need a good case to carry my camera and gear around; also comes in handy for storing my gear on those days when I don’t do any shooting. My monopod is also used frequently, and I would like to add a good tripod but the tripod and head I want costs $450, and I have higher priorities, so the monopod will have to do for now. Don’t forget software, you need software to edit (Post Processing [PP]) your pictures and you will probably need software to catalog and store your photos. Have you thought about a Website to host your pictures, like SmugMug?
While this is mostly true, lenses do hold their value quite well, so selling the old lens and buying a better one isn't such a bad idea.
I will say, however, that the expectations of the OP are too high. As noted re: hummingbirds, and true of this endeavor in general, to expect to spend $1500 and no more for a year and to be able to shoot all those different types of subjects... it just ain't gonna happen without some major compromises, if at all.
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Thank you. Just the kind of information/comments I'm looking for. Makes perfect sense and appreciated.
Bud
My vote is for buying a less expensive model camera. A decent lens. Plenty of memory and a case for it. (extra battery and other small goodies like micro fiber for glass can sneak in under the radar as well).
This way you can take your gear around and have fun with it. It will get real old, real fast if you don't have a case. You'll find yourself leaving it at home and your investment (and potential passion) may fall to the wayside.
I don't know jack about Canon, but I have recommendations for days if you want to go the Nikon route and stay under (or around) 1500.00. Not that Nikon has better deals. I just know Nikon better.
The proper way to purchase anything photographic is to start with a list of needs.
Since you mention sports as important, it would make sense to use that as a determinant because it is probably more photographically challenging than the other things you mention (unless you want to stop motion on hummingbirds, which is pretty challenging.
I suggest that an entry level camera body is probably not my first recommenadtion for sports, although I did some HS football with a Canon XT.
Of recent Canon heritage the 30D/40D are often used for sports due to an improved responsiveness over the entry level cameras.
Likewise the Nikon D200/D300 are often used for the same purpose and for pretty much the same reasons.
Unfortunately, lenses will pretty much destroy your budget because good sports lenses are fairly pricey.
So what makes a good sports lens? Autofocus speed and accuracy, which are partly dependant on the camera body, is very important, as is the working focal length. 70-200mm, f2.8 telephoto zooms are commonly used because almost every manufacturer has a very nice lens in this general range and the focal length is suitable for many sports if you can get reasonably close.
Alternately, Canon has a 70-200mm, f4 "L" lens that would work nicely in good light and is not so pricey. It is not as valuable at night or even cloudy conditions.
These same lenses, coupled with a close-focus adapter lens (diopter), can be used for humming birds but you need to use flash photography techniques to really stop the wings.
So for daytime sports, a Canon 30D with a Canon 70-200mm, f4L is about as inexpensive as I recommend. (A Sigma 70-200mm, f2.8 might also work, but focus speeds are a bit slower.) Couple this with something in a standard zoom:
Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 XR DI-II LD Aspherical (IF)
Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC Macro
... and you have a pretty good basic system. A decent flash is still required for much interior work, including events like birthday parties, wedding receptions, graduations, and the like.
A similar system can be built in Nikon using the D200 (getting hard to find), but almost certainly using third-party glass to stay close to budget.
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A good body is a good body.....once you start using better glass, then the IQ of an entry level body will beg for faster and more accurate focus, less noise, and the like. Also, a 40D is writing at 14 bit instead of 12..colors and saturation are superb.
Now, maybe I got lucky.....I bought the 40D with the 28-135 and will tell you after numerous tests that my 28-135 is sharper hands down than the 24-105 "L". Tested this against 2 separate lenses. Sure, its not built as heavy and I was intending on selling it immediately but I'm keeping it now.
That being said, shooting the kids and pretty much anything else (including landscapes) the focal length of the 28-135 is versatile. When you decide to get into birding, you won't be messing around with sub-standard lenses..you'll need long focal length and you'll have to spend money...period.
In all honesty, there is a difference in image quality from the XT to a 40D...no contest. The XTI is a nice camera....it's noisy at high ISO's but have galleries full of wonderful images with that camera. The 40D is superior to the XTI.
By having the 40D.....you'll have that body for many years if you take care of it and as you upgrade in glass notice the differences right away. Eventually, you'll buy a newer better body as they come out.....the 40D can always be a backup or a 2nd without changing lenses.
You will need a nice flash though and for the price of a 430EX a year ago a 580EXII can be had for the same. That is an excellent flash and you'll use it constantly...even for outdoor portraits.
$1500.00 isn't a whole bunch for what you'll need (including cards). So, first option I would suggest is the XTI but you could also pick up a very clean 30D for a song...another great camera. Less noise on the 30D.
Now that I've completely confused the issue..I'll stop.
Spend your money on a good body....you'll find you'll keep it as you continue buying and selling glass.
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Weddings/Portraits and anything else that catches my eye.
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Thank you. Comments duly noted and very helpful. I do have software although not Photoshop and probably never will due to price on that dude. Anyway, I have Elements 4, Paintshop Pro XI, ACDSee 10 and Picasa for quick edits. Also I am at Smugmug here so you can see what I do with my Fuji S6000 in regards to what I specified above.
Bud
Bud
Your budget.
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Hopefully we are in agreement about the Nikon D200 as a good sports camera, so you are probably questioning the "third-party glass" statement.
Assuming a new purchase, versus used (which I am not discouraging), the 80-200mm f/2.8D ED AF Nikkor sells for around $900+ which, in combination with the D200, probably chews up too much budget to allow a standard lens purchase as well.
A compatible Sigma 70-200mm , f2.8 would be, ...
Rats, it would be about the same money. I was thinking they were about $200 less. My bad. (Unless you can find a model I version of the Sigma. Sigma4Less has them for $750.)
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
So, you're telling me I can't improve on my pictures with $1500? That will make my dear wife the happiest person on earth and I hate that.
Bud
Bud,
You can get a new Canon 30D for $800USD
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/423708-REG/Canon_1234B004_EOS_30D_Digital_Camera.html
Canon 70-200mm, f4L for $560
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/183198-GREY/Canon_2578A002_70_200mm_f_4_0L_USM_Autofocus.html
Finally the Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC Macro for $420
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/463426-REG/Sigma_581109_18_50mm_f_2_8_EX_DC.html
This is a bit over budget but not too far.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
For $1500 you can get a 40D 28-135mm kit, a case, and a memory card. That's what I started my dSLR adventure with and I love it.
At first I hated the kit lens, but once I figured out the secret (it needs light) I get consistantly sharp photos with it.
The prices I am seeing on Amazon.com (which is where I do all my shopping if possible) are under $1400 for the kit, leaving you plenty for a small case and a memory card to get you started.
You could substitute the new EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS for $175 and be even closer to budget.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/519475-USA/Canon_2042B002_18_55mm_f_3_5_5_6_EF_S_IS.html
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Of course you can improve on that budget. But you'll just have to have lower expectations and less flexibility on that budget, and you'll have to make compromises.
Besides, you DID say the budget was random. Apparently it isn't!
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I was interested in the: part.
DO you mean all the D200's are being gobbled up and no one is selling?
I think Nikon is selling from inventory at this point and I've seen dealors running out of stock, like just before the end of last year. I don't know how much longer Nikon will be offering the model for sale as new units.
I'm saying if you want a new Nikon D200, now is probably a good time to buy. (Just my opinion on this. I don't have any insider information on this trend.)
B&H and Adorama both list the D200 as in stock right now.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Bud
Thanks for your input. Taking it all in for future reference. Jon, of all the cameras I initially mentioned the D80 hasn't been brought up as a possible compromise. ???
And Ziggy, I probably should have mentioned that the 'sports' I'll be wanting to photograph are nothing but grade school events that distance won't or shouldn't be much of a problem. Baseball, softball, track and field and football. Outside at small venues and in daylight for the most part.
Thanks fellas I do appreciate the comments.
Bud
I would recommend you find out what you can afford. And go to your local camera shop and play w/ them all. Take a long time. Ask them for a memory card so you can play w/ it in the store. It's ultimately what feels "right" in your hands.
I did that and the Nikon won hands down. YMMV.
Thank you. You certainly haven't confused any more what was already a confusing situation I found myself in.
Bud
As a person on a budget, I spent a lot of time looking for a used 30d. The XT and XTi felt too small in my hands, so I didn't consider those. The used camera I found looks and works as new, minus a small amount of dust on the sensor (easy fix.) There are nice used cameras available if you do your research. Buying used would leave room in your budget for the long lens. Happy hunting!
For whatever reasons I've never been a 'used' buyer. Maybe it's time to consider it eh?
Thank you and what a great signature!!!!!
Bud
18-55 IS $175 (I read)
55-250IS (when it's available in the US for about $350)
430EX (or comprable Metz) for about $200
That puts you just over with a new 30D body and just under with a used one.
This doesn't include memory or extra batteries, neither of which are expensive. I still use a Kingston 50X 1gig card much of the time in my 40D and it holds plenty of shots for how I use it. More than enough in jpeg for an hours worth of children's sporting events.
Both lenses are good light only for moving subjects, but the very effective IS makes them very suitable for low light static subjects and the flash for those things that move indoors:D
IMO this would give you the some of the range you need for the racing and birds and a nice overall focal length coverage.
It's as good and cheap as you're going to get for the money.
Gene
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I wanted to shoot sports and do a little bit of everything else on the side. Nothing amazing, but I wanted a competent camera that would let me get the results I wanted. The D80 has done this, sure for sports I would love a faster AF and a higher FPS, but in life their are always compromises.
I'm a student with a limited budget and at the time the D80 worked. I'm able to shoot high school boys hockey, a little football, and a few other sports with success. It handles tracking well enough that when I walk away from an event, I can say that I got the shoots I wanted to get.
If the budget swings for it grab the D200 I'm sure you won't be disappointed, but at the same time the D80 is a great camera and seems to be getting cheaper and cheaper. The choice of course is yours.