flash question
Gerg
Registered Users Posts: 5 Beginner grinner
I'm shooting with the Canon 40D and have found serious limitations with the built in flash. Currently the favorite lens is the 10-22 and it will shade the photo when using the built in most of the time.
So now it's time for the upgrade and my question.
For playing, as I never intend to take pictures for pay, is it worth the extra money to step up to the Speedlite 580EXII or can I expect a long and happy life with the 430 EX?
So far I've errored on the side of growing into what ever I purchase so I don't limit myself.
The type of pictures I'd be trying to capture are informal groups at night and street shots of a large capture area.
What do you think?
So now it's time for the upgrade and my question.
For playing, as I never intend to take pictures for pay, is it worth the extra money to step up to the Speedlite 580EXII or can I expect a long and happy life with the 430 EX?
So far I've errored on the side of growing into what ever I purchase so I don't limit myself.
The type of pictures I'd be trying to capture are informal groups at night and street shots of a large capture area.
What do you think?
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I would say that both options count as erring on the side of caution, personally I have a 430 I'm very happy with, but am getting a 580 when money allows, because I want to try master/slave arrangements. This will probably be the only purchase in all of my photography where I don't regret spending less up front.
If you're not looking for a master, either flash will do nicely. I've yet to find a situation that needs more power than my 430 could offer (this includes at night with no ambient light, f/11-16, ISO 100, 1/200 sec, and also high speed sync for 1/500 or better in similar illumination, but with telephoto and at range) but faster recycle would always be nice. There are a few features the 430 lacks that the 580 has, and if these haven't already caught your eye, chances are they won't matter.
If you're going to be doing shooting in near pitch black with a 10-22 stopped down, the extra power might be useful at the widest end of the range where the effective GN drops considerably.
Since I'm looking for multiple flashes, neither one would have been a bad purchase initially, my only real warning, try one out on your camera, because even the 430, for myself with a rebel xt, is a pretty big thing to handle once you add the weight of the batteries, and I'm concerned that the 580 is just going to feel enormous, but then, by the time I get it I hope to have a 40D, which might handle the weight better.
I use them professionally and personally:
Master-slave:
Wedding:
Group:
Photomicrography:
Awards:
Graduation:
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I use studio monolights and large umbrellas for the wedding formals. Pretty much everything else is done with portable electronic flash, either hotshoe flashes or handle-mount.
If I start doing portraiture it will be with the monolights and softboxes.
Are you saying that you're just not using the ABs?
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I mainly wanted to add, that although I don't have the EF 15/2.8 fisheye, my manual says the 430ex is incompatible with it. The 10-22 with the crop factor gets pretty near the 15mm's of what the 430ex manual says is the limit of its coverage. You might want to ask someone who uses that combo to be sure you don't get dark edges.
The 430EX covers 24 -105 mm as well, but it has a built-in diffuser which can expand the coverage to 14 mm.
Your choice of 430EX is correct but just remember to use the built-in diffuser when you use the ultra-wide angle. Also need to aware that the intensity of flash light may be reduce as it cover wider angle. A test shoot is necessary to fine tune the setting.
flickr.com/photos/photoskipper/
http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=85339&highlight=580ex
dak.smugmug.com
I was going to actually point right back to that thread. Long story short, I was offered a trade of a 430ex plus $80 for my 580ex. I ended up keeping my 580, and I must say that I am SOOOOO glad that I did. The 430ex is a very capable flash, but for me, I happen to shoot a ton in low light situations, and the extra reach and recharge rate of the 580 have been a life saver.
Oh, and as for the extra money, I have a 580ex version 1 that I purchased for $250 Like New in Box. I see them going anywhere from $250 to $300 used. Since 430s are selling in the $200ish range used, I'd shop around for a used 580ex since the prices aren't that far apart. Keep in mind that the 580ex ver. 1 is a discontinued flash that has been replaced by 580ex II, so if you can find a good condition 580 ver. I, you'd be all set.
Canon 5DII, Canon 7D
Canon Canon 24-70 f/2.8L, Canon 35 f/1.4L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, Canon 85 f/1.2L II, Canon 500mm f/4 IS, Zeiss 21mm ZE
Speedlite 580ex II, Canon 430ex
However, buying the 580 is not the end of it. I have just added a ST-E2.
ok so ive pretty noobish when it comes to flashes. i want to get a flash that will work on my canon and also as an off camera flash for strobist stuff.
i was thinking about getting this one.
just had a couple of questions.
1. is it a decent flash for the price?(i know "you get what you pay for"...)
2. is 7 sec a good recycle time?
3. could you suggest a better flash? (one that i can FIND!!!!! unlike the sb24 and vivitar 283)!!
thanks in advance
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1. I'm not familiar with this flash, but for the price, the features look ok. It does not mention high speed sync though, which is really nice to have for fill in at greater than 1/250 shutter speed. Otherwise, the flash may not properly expose the shot.
2. I think new flash like the 430EX can recycle as fast as 2 secs.
3. I'd recommend the Canon 430EX if you can swing it.
Good luck.
Strobist recommends this flash if you cant find the SB's
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/02/return-of-classic.html
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I've surprised people at some gigs I've done because they didn't expect my lighting to look the way it did post-flash based on what it looked like in places without flash
I took this shot inside of a small karaoke box in Japan:
And this shot was done inside a large catholic church with a much more awkward ceiling but still worked great:
What's really nifty about the crowd shot above is that they were in the crowd... where it was much darker than the stage... so that nice coloring and brightness was all thanks to my 580 going straight to the high ceiling and back down again.
It's definitely my favorite accessory
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Good luck with your decision those Siggy flashes Ziggy recommends are great ....... and less money than the equiv in canon....
Good Luck with your search.
Depending on what functions you need. This might be a good read from another fourm on the 430EX and 580EX vs the 580EX II with a 40D. Something I was not aware of.
http://photocamel.com/forum/camera-accessories-forum/43805-eos40d-speedlite-430ex-compatibility.html
And i could get 4 of these or 2 Vivitar 285's?
i guess the only problem with getting a 430 is the price, 240$ + a stand, umbrella etc....
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http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=777956&postcount=4
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As to the Bowers flash....I would not buy it.....Bowers doesnot mfg that flash not sure who does could be achiever but it is not Sigma or Viatar or Sunpak......read the thread ZIGGY post the link to and also THIS THREAD
which is the whole thread including Ziggys post.......I have always like the SUNPAKS AND SIGMA AND VIVATAR (285 HV..BUT YA need a safe sync and it is a manual flash..a little auto but only thru its thyristor circuit ...no ttl or commander or anything that new...older tech nolgy but a real work horse)
for most things flash I also recommend getting a flash bracket that the camera does the flipping on as I like my flash to stay vertical and centered over the lens......
7 sec recycle time is almost an eternity...seriously a lot can happen in 7 seconds...at a wedding you can miss the maid of honro and best man and also 1 more brides maid and groomsman recessing out of the Sanctuary after the ceremony and you have just shot the Bride and Groom.....or during the reception it can cost you pleanty of missed shots on the dance floor and also candid portraits during portrait session..especially with childreen whos facial expression and all come and go in the blink fo an eye...at times I think 2 seconds is a long time and has cost me shots.....
HTH
thanks for the input art scott, i dont think i will buy the bower flash cus 7 sec is a realllly long time now that i think about it.
thanks guys.
EDIT: just checked out bhphoto and the Sigma EF-500 DG Super E-TTL II Shoe Mount Flash Canon mount has been discontinued
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It looks like the Sigma EF-530 DG Super E-TTL II has replaced the 500 model. More powerful and slightly more expensive than the 500 series.
On a budget, get the Sunpak 383 Super. It's a more simple "auto" and manual flash, but still pretty useful. It lacks features like auto-zoom and HSS/FP, but it yields reliable light for many normal shooting situations.
Still valuable as a slaved flash later for background light or rim/hair light with the addition of the appropriate slave trigger.
Similarly, the Vivitar 285HV is also available and has a manual zoom feature, but lacks swivel which I find useful. Another "auto" flash, it has been popular for around 35 years as a durable workhorse. Best to buy the brand new model as it's supposed to be adjusted to 6 volt trigger voltage. (I have not verified this.)
Trigger voltage can be a concern with any older flash but you can mitigate the problem using a Wein Safe-Sync:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/245292-REG/Wein_W990560_Safe_Sync_Hot_Shoe_to.html
Not exacly cheap, this model also gives you a PC connection which many entry-level cameras lack. Literally any of the older flashes can be used safely with modern digital cameras via this adapter (assuming a hotshoe, of course.)
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Is this with the wide panel flipped down? Canon states it diffuses to 14mm coverage (FOV equivalent, so ~9mm APS-C) I'm just now getting an ultra wide (10-22) mailed to me, and would be interested in having your results
Thanks Gyrf, Based on that I ordered the 580EX II today.
I would expect that when the manual states that a flash is incompatible with one lens or another; the reason would be that the flash would not cover the entire frame if used straight on.
Since I never use direct flash and always bounce it - I would expect that this limitation would not be a problem.
I have neither the 15mm nor the 10-22mm lenses but, I have no problem lighting the entire frame of my 12-24mm Tokina (at any focal length) with bounced flash from either my 420ex or my 550ex. Like I said, I never use direct flash so I don't know (or really care) if my unit would light the frame evenly straight on.
By the way - Ziggy - What a nice looking, clean-cut group of young men and ladies in your illustration!
Thanks and yes, they are. It's always easier to photograph good looking people.
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The Vivitar 285 and 283 series units are fine flashes (although some have dangerously high sync voltages) which have been around for a long time and which, if used with some knowledge, can provide good exposures. However, these flashes tilt only and do not swivel. This can make it awkward when using bounce flash and shifting from vertical to horizontal positions.
The Sunpak 383 will both tilt and swivel and this makes it a bit more adaptable.
I use hotshoe flashes either on the hotshoe of the camera or on a camera bracket. I don't use them as "pseudo" studio strobes.
I am not a believer (despite the Strobist propaganda) on spending money converting a hotshoe flash into a pseudo-studio unit. The hotshoe flash has some severe limitations which make it inferior to a "true" studio strobe - even an inexpensive strobe.
These limitations are:
1. No modeling light (this in itself would sell me on the studio strobe)
2. Lower power
3. Dependency upon batteries - longer recycle time
4. Cannot use light modifiers without accessories
5. No internal slave
If you have patience and shop carefully, you can get a set of "true" studio strobes at a fairly low price on eBay. I needed a set of very portable studio strobes to do interior location shooting with. I was able to get a set of three Multiblitz studio monolight strobes with barn doors, snoot, grid, filter-holder and a set of colored glass filters all packed in a fiberglass suitcase for $200 plus a few bucks shipping. These are name-brand units which work great and are still supported by the manufacturer regarding parts. I found that out recently when I was careless and broke a flash-tube.
This set beats the heck out of trying to modify a set of Vivitar, Sunpak or even Canon hotshoe strobes for studio work.
Another low priced unit which works great is the original Paul C. Buff White Lightning "Coffee Can" strobe. The WL5,000 and WL10,000 units will usually go for between $50 and $100 on eBay. Although these are older units, they are like the Energizer Bunny and "just keep going and going!"