Thanks a lot sir i will try this.
Anything to keep in mind when shooting ?
Two things, I always try to get the light as close to the final as possible. If you have the luxury of time, go back when the light separates the subjects similar to how you may mold it in post, in camera great light is always better. Also, I take a minute and preview the image on the camera display, while shooting landscapes. This helps me consider the compositional elements such as the relationships of the subjects and the corners.
It look forward to many more of your posts from such distant lands
Two things, I always try to get the light as close to the final as possible. If you have the luxury of time, go back when the light separates the subjects similar to how you may mold it in post, in camera great light is always better. Also, I take a minute and preview the image on the camera display, while shooting landscapes. This helps me consider the compositional elements such as the relationships of the subjects and the corners.
It look forward to many more of your posts from such distant lands
Okay will take care of things you have mentioned !
Thanks a lot
Thine is the beauty of light; mine is the song of fire. Thy beauty exalts the heart; my song inspires the soul. Allama Iqbal
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited September 8, 2008
abstract ism!
I like this image but have one important change.
This image suffers from too much information, specifically sky. What I believe keeps a viewer intrigued longer, is a combination of instantly recognizable subject around or within more abstract subject matter. The part of an image that remains unrecognizable longer becomes the puzzle for the viewer to decipher. By cropping this image below the summit of the mountain on the left and an equal amount off the bottom, the form created by the reflection would become a stronger element in the composition and potentially force the viewer to look longer at the cliffs and mountains.
Please try cropping this and re post, I think it will be worth it.
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited September 23, 2008
Time for round three
First off, thank you everyone who posted in round two I expect to see you again even if I did not pick one of your images
badblack096v1
This image needs some technical improvements!
The color temperature in the bottom needs to be warmer.
The blend needs to be refined, as to not see the dark horizon.
So considering that these two changes were made, I like what you have done by leaving blue sky above the cirrus clouds. I like the FG ridge leading in from the lower left corner.
However I believe these types of images where the light is quite flat need very strong FG elements, or they need to accomplish embellishing unabated space. If you were to get closer to the badlands, which do hold many compelling lines, and fill most of the FG with such lines, this flat evening light will become complimentary to the patterns in the dirt.
If you went for the unabated space, which I think this image is closer to, I would consider two options. First, include more to the right and left by either stitching several images together or using a wider angle lens. The idea behind this would be to embellish the expanse of the horizon more than sky. As it is now, the bright clouds have become your main subject for two reasons, they are in the center of your composition and they are the brightest spot. The downfall of this is that, as beautiful as they may be clouds alone typically don't hold a persons attention long enough. The clouds in this setting should be only the embellishment of something else!
Please feel free to post a revision of this image if you are so compelled
Thank you for the comments. They are very helpful. This image was made from 3 bracketed shots. I first tried Photomatix HDR but didn't like the result, so I manually blended, and then did a lot of masked levels, curves, and local area contrast boost. Saturation was boosted in LAB mode, but no color adjustments were made. So the cool blue tones of the foreground were natural. Following your advice I warmed the foreground and lightened the horizon area. I like the new horizon, but I'm not sure about the warm foreground. In the original, I liked the complement of the blue foreground to the blue sky. Maybe the warm foreground will grow on me. I'd be interested in other opinions.
It's interesting in that when I studied the scene I was attracted to all the detail in the foreground. That's what I saw. The clouds were secondary in my eye. But you are right, the position, tone, and contrast of the clouds make them the central focus. I probably should have placed the horizion higher, but as I recall the additional bottom space was not very attractive (flat and empty).
I used my widest angle lens, and I've never tried to do pano stitching. But now you've given me cause to learn.
One question, if you have time. I'm not sure what you mean by "unabated space" and would appreciate an explanation.
One question, if you have time. I'm not sure what you mean by "unabated space" and would appreciate an explanation.
unabated |ˌənəˈbātid|
adjective
without any reduction in intensity or strength :
I have stood on many high places in the planes where on clear days, the expanse took my breath away. The view goes on forever, unabated. To capture such an expanse you have to include elements within the composition that allow the viewer the ability to relate what they are viewing. In other words depth. The depth can be created in several diff ways. First warmer colors appear closer, thus making the FG warmer helps. Second more contrast should be applied to closer elements. And last but not least there needs to be something at infinity, WAY FAR AWAY, that is sharp and better yet has detail in it.
Having said that, I would make two more change to your image. Taper the lighter luminosity that you included on the horizon up into the sky. Because of the straight line you could use the gradient tool:D And second, while the gradient tool is open, use it to taper the warmer mask on the FG away, so that the warmth is strongest in the FG and becomes cooler at the horizon.
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited October 1, 2008
Hawkeye978
First of all, I like this image
and here is why,
The kids look natural, not stuffed.
They are noticeable.
The foreground is well composed and interesting with good contrast.
The sky has been darkened just enough and not over dramatic.
The only change I might make is to lower the overall contrast by lowering the value of the highlights, but only a little.
Thank you for the comments. I've been studying this thread closely to pick up as many pointers as I can.
No they are not my kids. This was taken in Acadia National Park at Thunder Hole. I had been taking pictures of the waves crashing with slow shutter speed to try to smooth the water when I saw these kids out on the rocks. The waves were actually periodically flowing over the rocks behind them cutting them off. Their father did eventually step onto the rocks behind them. I liked how when I looked at the picture my eye was immediately drawn to the kids out on the rocks.
I had been going round and round over the highlights after I posted. I think what happened is that I sharpened in Photoshop and then I had Lightroom sharpen on export so I got a double hit. I redid the export with just Lightroom sharpening and the result is found below.
I have been concentrating lately on making a lot of localized corrections in Photoshop to try and enhance pictures. Masking certain areas and then adjusting with curves or making a dodge or burn to try and emphasize some areas over others. This one was actually done almost totally in Lightroom 2 with the adjustment brushes. The sky had a gradient filter while there are multiple adjustments to brighten the kids slightly, reduce the exposure in the waves at certain locations slightly, and enhance contrast in the rocks to hopefully draw the eye through the picture. I only used Photoshop to remove some barrel distortion in the lens and to sharpen. But now I took that out.
Again, thank you for the comments. It's good to know I may be starting to head on the right track.
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited October 2, 2008
You are definitely heading in the right track
The brushes in LR2 are wonderful and I am just waiting for them to appear in the next version of ACR which is what I use. I believe regional contrast adjustments are the key to success. As much as we all want automation, regional contrast adjustments will always remain a personal creative tool to be mastered only by those willing to spend the time and learn the art.
Thank you for your post
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited October 19, 2008
Black and white time
Todd,
This image works well in black and white. The sand ripples offer all the elements of a good black and white subjet, contrast, form, depth and because of the low light soft gradations.
The processing looks good, maybe the FG could be darker? All appears to be sharp which I believe adds to this image.
I like the distant mountains showing up just enough to make them out, this really gives the image more depth.
I like the composition, emphasizing the ripples.
I believe the ripple on the far left is too close to the edge. It has the most interesting curves to it and therefore could be center stage, or at least closer to the center.
Just a guess, this looks like it was shot at the Dumont Dunes in Death Valley NP?
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited October 30, 2008
This has it all, mood, drama and depth!
The problem I see is with the continuity of the masks. Seams like there are areas that should be darker and areas that should be lighter. The best example is the cloud on the upper right which is too bright. The other general area is the FG which is a bit too bright.
However, the mood is great and the light on the distant peak is superb giving this image great depth, something difficult to achieve with what appears to be a medium focal length lens. Part of this depth is created by the composition with nothing obstructing the array of cholla cactus in the FG leading up to the apparent size of the distant mountain. In other words, there are no obnoxious plants rocks or sticks
The problem I see is with the continuity of the masks. Seams like there are areas that should be darker and areas that should be lighter. The best example is the cloud on the upper right which is too bright. The other general area is the FG which is a bit too bright.
Marc,
Thanks for taking the time to comment on my shot; I really appreciate your perspective.
I very much struggled on how bright to make each portion of the composition, and you are correct - I used a number of masks in different areas to adjust the luminosity. I also lightened selected chollas to support the composition I was looking for, but perhaps at the expense of something else.
Are you saying different areas should be lighter or darker because they do not look natural, or because the composition would be would be enhanced, or to better draw the viewer into the shot? I am struggling to know what I should be looking out for when I am making these kind of changes so I can ensure I get it right.
Thanks again for offering your expertise - it is very much appreciated.
Are you saying different areas should be lighter or darker because they do not look natural, or because the composition would be would be enhanced, or to better draw the viewer into the shot? I am struggling to know what I should be looking out for when I am making these kind of changes so I can ensure I get it right.
Thanks again for offering your expertise - it is very much appreciated.
Dave
All that really matters is honoring your personal impression. However, often I notice in my own work that what I thought was my impression at that time, becomes mundane years later as I become more advanced in certain skills. So for now you have begun to work with shaping the light with masks which as you know is something I believe is essential to properly enhancing any image. That is any image where you do not have control over lighting.
I find making the entire image darker, too dark, first, and then revealing subjects by removing the mask with a feathered brush most of the time at a 30 or 50 percent opacity, helps me find the light quicker. By working this way you begin to understand what is more important in the image.
The first step would be to open a curves adj layer and just drag the center of the RGB curve down, way down. Then with your brush begin painting away certain areas of the image, thus revealing subject. Once you have revealed interesting subject, leave other areas of the image too dark. I will then change the opacity of the entire layer until the correct density is set, in other words changing the opacity from 100% to something lower. This method allows me to easily change the effect with one slider.
I will also dup a layer and change the blend mode to multiply, this is similar to dragging the center of a curve down.
I find I have gone too far enhancing and image when others mention the image looks enhanced. But, the successfully enhanced images are ones where I have enhanced just as much, to be honest, but because I perfected the method, no one noticed
got it
I can see where that would make a difference - the better you are at processing, the more aggressive you can be to obtain the result you envisioned - without people knowing you processed it.
Thanks again for the guidance; I will give the workflow you described a shot. It seems like a good approach to viewing and bringing out the best in the image.
Black and white time
Marc,
Thank you for the critique and apologize for not logging in sooner. This was taken in the eastern mesquite dunes near stove pipe wells. Looking at the image now I agree with you regarding the left edge, at the time I was thinking the broken ripple near the center added interest.
This image works well in black and white. The sand ripples offer all the elements of a good black and white subjet, contrast, form, depth and because of the low light soft gradations.
The processing looks good, maybe the FG could be darker? All appears to be sharp which I believe adds to this image.
I like the distant mountains showing up just enough to make them out, this really gives the image more depth.
I like the composition, emphasizing the ripples.
I believe the ripple on the far left is too close to the edge. It has the most interesting curves to it and therefore could be center stage, or at least closer to the center.
Just a guess, this looks like it was shot at the Dumont Dunes in Death Valley NP?
Marc,
Thank you for the critique and apologize for not logging in sooner. This was taken in the eastern mesquite dunes near stove pipe wells. Looking at the image now I agree with you regarding the left edge, at the time I was thinking the broken ripple near the center added interest.
Todd,
I agree it adds interest but not quite enough. Noticing compositional elements in the frame is not easy. Often times I go between the live view and the view finder over and over to get a good grasp of shape, not just of the subject but of the shadows as well. If you dont have live view, take a photo and view the image on the display with a dark cloth over the camera and your head. This could just be a habit I have from shooting with a view camera, but one that helps me on occasion with the composition on a digital display
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited November 25, 2008
SunsetElMatador
I like the light in this composition. However, I am going to point out several things that should be corrected.
First, the halo around the skyline rocks is too obvious, appears to have occurred by either an auto HDR program or severe Gaussian Blur in Photoshop.
Second, the colors are too saturated when pastels would have been sufficient.
Third, There is a footprint in the sand below it may just be me but I believe there should be a reason for footprints or keep them out.
This scene is quite beautiful though and what I am wondering is?
Could you post the raw or jpeg files so I could have a look?
I like the light in this composition. However, I am going to point out several things that should be corrected.
First, the halo around the skyline rocks is too obvious, appears to have occurred by either an auto HDR program or severe Gaussian Blur in Photoshop.
Second, the colors are too saturated when pastels would have been sufficient.
Third, There is a footprint in the sand below<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/eek7.gif" border="0" alt="" > it may just be me but I believe there should be a reason for footprints or keep them out.
This scene is quite beautiful though and what I am wondering is?
Could you post the raw or jpeg files so I could have a look?
I think the color is a bit more accurate. As far as the halo goes, I actually had not noticed it until you mentioned it. It is not from Gaussian Blur but most likely from overuse of the "Shadows & Highlights" feature in photoshop or too much sharpening. I did not shoot this Raw, though I wish I had. This was taken shortly after buying my first DSLR which I am still using. I now shoot RAW and am a bit more careful when it comes to post processing. As far as the footprint, those are things that I have learned to avoid as I have been improving on my technique. It is not a mistake I will be making again. At the time I can honestly tell you I did not notice it nor did I think about it. I have learned to have more attention to detail since then.
I really love this little stretch of beach in Malibu, specifically for the rocks and boulders everywhere. I have been back many times but due to Southern California's proclivity for sunny cloudless days have not been able to duplicate the great sunset light I had on this day.
On a side note I think I have much to learn about Post Processing (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.). Do you have any classes or books/DVD's you can recommend that might be beneficial for me?
Thanks again for your comments. I greatly appreciate them and I think it is awesome that you are doing this for all of us photogs looking to improve.
I think the color is a bit more accurate. As far as the halo goes, I actually had not noticed it until you mentioned it. It is not from Gaussian Blur but most likely from overuse of the "Shadows & Highlights" feature in photoshop or too much sharpening. I did not shoot this Raw, though I wish I had. This was taken shortly after buying my first DSLR which I am still using. I now shoot RAW and am a bit more careful when it comes to post processing. As far as the footprint, those are things that I have learned to avoid as I have been improving on my technique. It is not a mistake I will be making again. At the time I can honestly tell you I did not notice it nor did I think about it. I have learned to have more attention to detail since then.
I really love this little stretch of beach in Malibu, specifically for the rocks and boulders everywhere. I have been back many times but due to Southern California's proclivity for sunny cloudless days have not been able to duplicate the great sunset light I had on this day.
On a side note I think I have much to learn about Post Processing (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.). Do you have any classes or books/DVD's you can recommend that might be beneficial for me?
Thanks again for your comments. I greatly appreciate them and I think it is awesome that you are doing this for all of us photogs looking to improve.
Sincerely,
Michael Bandy
Michael,
When dealing with colors on the internet just make sure you convert to sRGB prior to posting on most sites but especially dgrin. You will find this under the Edit menu in PS. Good to see you are using some cool features in PS like Gaussian Blur and sharpening. When I use shadow/highlights I only use the shadow portion therefore turn the highlights slider all the way off as it tends to only muddy them up. As for the shadows, I apply only very subtle alterations as anything else just adds too much noise. As you shoot more you will learn to take better exposures or understand when to take additional exposures on a tripod with more light, in other words bracket for the shadows. Later in post you can blend the exposures
Those darn footprints:cry I am not saying footprints should NEVER be in a landscape image, only that you know when they are there and use them for part of the story if need be, or just keep them out.
That is a great location in Malibu We have been having many great evenings here in Santa Barbara so the opportunity is high this time of year you may have another evening like above.
I teach post processing in my workshops during critiques and I spend more time on post during the print workshops. If you would like to be added to our mailing list just visit our site for details. To be honest with you there is no book that I know of that explains my post processing techniques, as I have just taken bits and pieces from many masters and created the workflow for me. I do hope to write something in the future
I made a few changes to the jpeg file. First off, desaturated the blues. Second added more density to the rocks to just cover up the halo created by the S/H filter. Then finally converted from ProPhotoRGB to sRGB.
Shoot these kind of images in RAW and you will have the files to work on when you find time to work on your post processing skills. In the mean time if you need jpegs for emailing and general use, convert the RAW to jpeg through the Tools feature in Bridge, or LR has the same actions available.
When dealing with colors on the internet just make sure you convert to sRGB prior to posting on most sites but especially dgrin. You will find this under the Edit menu in PS. Good to see you are using some cool features in PS like Gaussian Blur and sharpening. When I use shadow/highlights I only use the shadow portion therefore turn the highlights slider all the way off as it tends to only muddy them up. As for the shadows, I apply only very subtle alterations as anything else just adds too much noise. As you shoot more you will learn to take better exposures or understand when to take additional exposures on a tripod with more light, in other words bracket for the shadows. Later in post you can blend the exposures
Those darn footprints:cry I am not saying footprints should NEVER be in a landscape image, only that you know when they are there and use them for part of the story if need be, or just keep them out.
That is a great location in Malibu We have been having many great evenings here in Santa Barbara so the opportunity is high this time of year you may have another evening like above.
I teach post processing in my workshops during critiques and I spend more time on post during the print workshops. If you would like to be added to our mailing list just visit our site for details. To be honest with you there is no book that I know of that explains my post processing techniques, as I have just taken bits and pieces from many masters and created the workflow for me. I do hope to write something in the future
I made a few changes to the jpeg file. First off, desaturated the blues. Second added more density to the rocks to just cover up the halo created by the S/H filter. Then finally converted from ProPhotoRGB to sRGB.
Shoot these kind of images in RAW and you will have the files to work on when you find time to work on your post processing skills. In the mean time if you need jpegs for emailing and general use, convert the RAW to jpeg through the Tools feature in Bridge, or LR has the same actions available.
Cheers
Yes I see what you are saying. To be honest I have not been converting the color space and had not realized it was needed until you mentioned it just now. Thank you very much for that piece of advice. I really like the density you added to the rocks and the overall scene is better for it. I really think some of my newer work is much better and the PP is more subtle. One of the reasons I posted this one is I knew there would be some things I could learn from your critique. Once again I appreciate very much your help and I think it is great that you are doing this.
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Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
It is quite nice that you waited for the fog or mist to clear from the tree, revealing it to add depth, scale and color to this virtually monochromatic image.
The only problem I see with this image is that the composition is split in two a bit. There is the waterfall and then there is the tree Not quite sure what is the subject. I could see darkening part of this image thus playing up the lighter part, what ever part you wish
I believe This will help alleviate the split composition as well.
I would try darkening the area around the tree, making it a second read to the powerful water. This will also keep the image from becoming top heavy, by darkening the waterfall.
Is this what you were thinking, when I darken the tree it removes the fog so I tried to do it subtly. Darkening the waterfall really helps clarify it. I also processed the image as a bw that I think helps address the issues you mentioned as well.yosemite_toddlio cc.jpg
Ok, this is very cool!
It is quite nice that you waited for the fog or mist to clear from the tree, revealing it to add depth, scale and color to this virtually monochromatic image.
The only problem I see with this image is that the composition is split in two a bit. There is the waterfall and then there is the tree Not quite sure what is the subject. I could see darkening part of this image thus playing up the lighter part, what ever part you wish
I believe This will help alleviate the split composition as well.
I would try darkening the area around the tree, making it a second read to the powerful water. This will also keep the image from becoming top heavy, by darkening the waterfall.[/QUOTE]
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited December 19, 2008
This is an interesting one!
First, I really dont believe it makes as good a black and white as color.
Second, I have worked the file in two ways. One the first version with a darker bottom, which is what at first I believed would help. However, after seeing your rendition and attempting myself, believe it look better with a dark top.
What makes it more interesting with a darker top is scale. With the heavy top, the waterfall comes forward making it visually taller which I like, thus making the tree smaller, and a second read. Well, a bit more of a second read.
Notice all the color and texture in the granite wall surrounding the waterfall. This appears when the file is darkened by dragging a curve down in a curves adj layer with a gradated mask. I did not saturate the colors!
Great image and I am glad you posted both of your renditions, as it really helps to make the final decisions about a tricky image
Thank you for your help on this image, opinion on the BW, and helping me see my image in a new (and improved) way with one tweak. I'm working on a series of similar images that i'll apply the same technique to.
For this reason, I would like to see more branches breaking up the shadowed section of the cliff filling in the less interesting wall with detail. Had you had time, a hand held split ND filter in the vertical position would have worked well, something to consider. If no filter than, I am guessing you were hand held? but still if you are quick you can shoot another exposure two stops under for the water. Even though, the shots wont line up perfectly all that matters is lining up the bright section of the interior of the waterfall, something you could do by simple dragging a selection of the image over the other. I know I know, more PS
Now for the good news,
I do like this image and appreciate that you found this composition while several elements were converging and you were probably tired from the long hike in. The light was changing fast, the people were walking around and the exposure is a bugger considering the high contrast. It appears that the timing was critical being that the people were in "the edge of the light". They split up the shadow lines and hold nice diffused light on their bodies, a small but important detail. I also like that the top of the waterfall is not visible, making it appear taller
Finally, what I appreciate most about the image is the size of the people to the waterfall. Great image with wonderful scale and interest.
Without the people, this image would not see the light of day.
I had taken my tripod down, due to the failing light, as the shadow moved across the water from left to right, and was turning to leave, when I saw the two folks standing in the rim light. I knew that was the shot I had been looking for all morning, IF I could capture it before they moved out of the rim light. I literally had less than 30 seconds to set my tripod back up and shoot one frame! One frame!
I know the negative dark area in the upper left, is a problem, and have tried it lighter and darker ( I have enough detail in the RAW that I can lighten that area or do a screen blend if necessary ) but I prefer it as it is - not black, but not much brighter either. I could certainly be wrong about this, and am most interested in listening to your opinion.
For this reason, I would like to see more branches breaking up the shadowed section of the cliff filling in the less interesting wall with detail. Had you had time, a hand held split ND filter in the vertical position would have worked well, something to consider. If no filter than, I am guessing you were hand held? but still if you are quick you can shoot another exposure two stops under for the water. Even though, the shots wont line up perfectly all that matters is lining up the bright section of the interior of the waterfall, something you could do by simple dragging a selection of the image over the other. I know I know, more PS
Now for the good news,
I do like this image and appreciate that you found this composition while several elements were converging and you were probably tired from the long hike in. The light was changing fast, the people were walking around and the exposure is a bugger considering the high contrast. It appears that the timing was critical being that the people were in "the edge of the light". They split up the shadow lines and hold nice diffused light on their bodies, a small but important detail. I also like that the top of the waterfall is not visible, making it appear taller
Finally, what I appreciate most about the image is the size of the people to the waterfall. Great image with wonderful scale and interest.
Thank you Marc, and that was my thought immediately when I saw them standing in the rim light. Not in the sunlight, and not in the shadow, but perfectly rim lit. That bright spot in the shadow helped balance the image, and the people gave scale to the waterfall. I learned it from you!
Oh, I was not tired either, Kathy and I had a great time that day. We hiked 3 more miles out, and hiked several more miles after that before the day was over.
If memory serves me, this image is a composite of two renderings from the original RAW file in the waterfall.
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited January 21, 2009
And that is a long SANDY 3 miles, well done
I guess the only way you could have improved this would be to have shot additional bracketed exposures just after the people left, but that is not necessary as the image still has enough detail in the shadow to add the interest.
So all in all, Good job, and yes, it is times like this that make photography so intrinsically beautiful. Capturing that single fleeting moment, when all the stars align
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited January 23, 2009
Aaron
This is a great example of a tangency becoming intrusive.
The composition is wonderful
The choice of aspect ratio is wonderful for the compostion
The light is right
The post processing is looking good
But the river running from the tip of the rock is a problem! Why is it a problem? I believe it draws my eye to it too soon. Furthermore there is an odd effect to the depth of the image because the colors of the river and the rocks are similar. It is as if the river is actually on the same plane as the rocks
I am thinking if you had moved to the right by several feet the river would protrude from the crack in the rocks and place it off center as well.
Any chance you shot one from a different position?
Comments
Anything to keep in mind when shooting ?
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Two things, I always try to get the light as close to the final as possible. If you have the luxury of time, go back when the light separates the subjects similar to how you may mold it in post, in camera great light is always better. Also, I take a minute and preview the image on the camera display, while shooting landscapes. This helps me consider the compositional elements such as the relationships of the subjects and the corners.
It look forward to many more of your posts from such distant lands
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Okay will take care of things you have mentioned !
Thanks a lot
My Gallery
I like this image but have one important change.
This image suffers from too much information, specifically sky. What I believe keeps a viewer intrigued longer, is a combination of instantly recognizable subject around or within more abstract subject matter. The part of an image that remains unrecognizable longer becomes the puzzle for the viewer to decipher. By cropping this image below the summit of the mountain on the left and an equal amount off the bottom, the form created by the reflection would become a stronger element in the composition and potentially force the viewer to look longer at the cliffs and mountains.
Please try cropping this and re post, I think it will be worth it.
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First off, thank you everyone who posted in round two
badblack096v1
This image needs some technical improvements!
The color temperature in the bottom needs to be warmer.
The blend needs to be refined, as to not see the dark horizon.
So considering that these two changes were made, I like what you have done by leaving blue sky above the cirrus clouds. I like the FG ridge leading in from the lower left corner.
However
If you went for the unabated space, which I think this image is closer to, I would consider two options. First, include more to the right and left by either stitching several images together or using a wider angle lens. The idea behind this would be to embellish the expanse of the horizon more than sky. As it is now, the bright clouds have become your main subject for two reasons, they are in the center of your composition and they are the brightest spot. The downfall of this is that, as beautiful as they may be clouds alone typically don't hold a persons attention long enough. The clouds in this setting should be only the embellishment of something else!
Please feel free to post a revision of this image if you are so compelled
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It's interesting in that when I studied the scene I was attracted to all the detail in the foreground. That's what I saw. The clouds were secondary in my eye. But you are right, the position, tone, and contrast of the clouds make them the central focus. I probably should have placed the horizion higher, but as I recall the additional bottom space was not very attractive (flat and empty).
I used my widest angle lens, and I've never tried to do pano stitching. But now you've given me cause to learn.
One question, if you have time. I'm not sure what you mean by "unabated space" and would appreciate an explanation.
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adjective
without any reduction in intensity or strength :
I have stood on many high places in the planes where on clear days, the expanse took my breath away. The view goes on forever, unabated. To capture such an expanse you have to include elements within the composition that allow the viewer the ability to relate what they are viewing. In other words depth. The depth can be created in several diff ways. First warmer colors appear closer, thus making the FG warmer helps. Second more contrast should be applied to closer elements. And last but not least there needs to be something at infinity, WAY FAR AWAY, that is sharp and better yet has detail in it.
Having said that, I would make two more change to your image. Taper the lighter luminosity that you included on the horizon up into the sky. Because of the straight line you could use the gradient tool:D And second, while the gradient tool is open, use it to taper the warmer mask on the FG away, so that the warmth is strongest in the FG and becomes cooler at the horizon.
Go for it
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First of all, I like this image
and here is why,
The kids look natural, not stuffed.
They are noticeable.
The foreground is well composed and interesting with good contrast.
The sky has been darkened just enough and not over dramatic.
The only change I might make is to lower the overall contrast by lowering the value of the highlights, but only a little.
Are these your children?
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Thank you for the comments. I've been studying this thread closely to pick up as many pointers as I can.
No they are not my kids. This was taken in Acadia National Park at Thunder Hole. I had been taking pictures of the waves crashing with slow shutter speed to try to smooth the water when I saw these kids out on the rocks. The waves were actually periodically flowing over the rocks behind them cutting them off. Their father did eventually step onto the rocks behind them. I liked how when I looked at the picture my eye was immediately drawn to the kids out on the rocks.
I had been going round and round over the highlights after I posted. I think what happened is that I sharpened in Photoshop and then I had Lightroom sharpen on export so I got a double hit. I redid the export with just Lightroom sharpening and the result is found below.
I have been concentrating lately on making a lot of localized corrections in Photoshop to try and enhance pictures. Masking certain areas and then adjusting with curves or making a dodge or burn to try and emphasize some areas over others. This one was actually done almost totally in Lightroom 2 with the adjustment brushes. The sky had a gradient filter while there are multiple adjustments to brighten the kids slightly, reduce the exposure in the waves at certain locations slightly, and enhance contrast in the rocks to hopefully draw the eye through the picture. I only used Photoshop to remove some barrel distortion in the lens and to sharpen. But now I took that out.
Again, thank you for the comments. It's good to know I may be starting to head on the right track.
Website: Tom Price Photography
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The brushes in LR2 are wonderful and I am just waiting for them to appear in the next version of ACR which is what I use. I believe regional contrast adjustments are the key to success. As much as we all want automation, regional contrast adjustments will always remain a personal creative tool to be mastered only by those willing to spend the time and learn the art.
Thank you for your post
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Todd,
This image works well in black and white. The sand ripples offer all the elements of a good black and white subjet, contrast, form, depth and because of the low light soft gradations.
The processing looks good, maybe the FG could be darker? All appears to be sharp which I believe adds to this image.
I like the distant mountains showing up just enough to make them out, this really gives the image more depth.
I like the composition, emphasizing the ripples.
I believe the ripple on the far left is too close to the edge. It has the most interesting curves to it and therefore could be center stage, or at least closer to the center.
Just a guess, this looks like it was shot at the Dumont Dunes in Death Valley NP?
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The problem I see is with the continuity of the masks. Seams like there are areas that should be darker and areas that should be lighter. The best example is the cloud on the upper right which is too bright. The other general area is the FG which is a bit too bright.
However, the mood is great and the light on the distant peak is superb giving this image great depth, something difficult to achieve with what appears to be a medium focal length lens. Part of this depth is created by the composition with nothing obstructing the array of cholla cactus in the FG leading up to the apparent size of the distant mountain. In other words, there are no obnoxious plants rocks or sticks
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Marc,
Thanks for taking the time to comment on my shot; I really appreciate your perspective.
I very much struggled on how bright to make each portion of the composition, and you are correct - I used a number of masks in different areas to adjust the luminosity. I also lightened selected chollas to support the composition I was looking for, but perhaps at the expense of something else.
Are you saying different areas should be lighter or darker because they do not look natural, or because the composition would be would be enhanced, or to better draw the viewer into the shot? I am struggling to know what I should be looking out for when I am making these kind of changes so I can ensure I get it right.
Thanks again for offering your expertise - it is very much appreciated.
Dave
http://davedilli.zenfolio.com/
All that really matters is honoring your personal impression. However, often I notice in my own work that what I thought was my impression at that time, becomes mundane years later as I become more advanced in certain skills. So for now you have begun to work with shaping the light with masks which as you know is something I believe is essential to properly enhancing any image. That is any image where you do not have control over lighting.
I find making the entire image darker, too dark, first, and then revealing subjects by removing the mask with a feathered brush most of the time at a 30 or 50 percent opacity, helps me find the light quicker. By working this way you begin to understand what is more important in the image.
The first step would be to open a curves adj layer and just drag the center of the RGB curve down, way down. Then with your brush begin painting away certain areas of the image, thus revealing subject. Once you have revealed interesting subject, leave other areas of the image too dark. I will then change the opacity of the entire layer until the correct density is set, in other words changing the opacity from 100% to something lower. This method allows me to easily change the effect with one slider.
I will also dup a layer and change the blend mode to multiply, this is similar to dragging the center of a curve down.
I find I have gone too far enhancing and image when others mention the image looks enhanced. But, the successfully enhanced images are ones where I have enhanced just as much, to be honest, but because I perfected the method, no one noticed
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I can see where that would make a difference - the better you are at processing, the more aggressive you can be to obtain the result you envisioned - without people knowing you processed it.
Thanks again for the guidance; I will give the workflow you described a shot. It seems like a good approach to viewing and bringing out the best in the image.
Dave
http://davedilli.zenfolio.com/
Marc,
Thank you for the critique and apologize for not logging in sooner. This was taken in the eastern mesquite dunes near stove pipe wells. Looking at the image now I agree with you regarding the left edge, at the time I was thinking the broken ripple near the center added interest.
Todd,
I agree it adds interest but not quite enough. Noticing compositional elements in the frame is not easy. Often times I go between the live view and the view finder over and over to get a good grasp of shape, not just of the subject but of the shadows as well. If you dont have live view, take a photo and view the image on the display with a dark cloth over the camera and your head. This could just be a habit I have from shooting with a view camera, but one that helps me on occasion with the composition on a digital display
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I like the light in this composition. However, I am going to point out several things that should be corrected.
First, the halo around the skyline rocks is too obvious, appears to have occurred by either an auto HDR program or severe Gaussian Blur in Photoshop.
Second, the colors are too saturated when pastels would have been sufficient.
Third, There is a footprint in the sand below
This scene is quite beautiful though and what I am wondering is?
Could you post the raw or jpeg files so I could have a look?
I do like the scattered rocks in the composition
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Marc,
Thank you very much for your constructive critique. I am very appreciative. Your comments are spot on and looking at the picture on this post makes me question what happened when it was uploaded. The saturation seems to have been amped up to a shade of neon. Perhaps you could take a look at the original JPEG on my web page @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/ronindice/2290124713/sizes/l/in/set-72157601778110103/ <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/ronindice/2290124713/" title="El Matador State Beach by Michael Bandy, on Flickr"><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/ronindice/2290124713/" title="El Matador State Beach by Michael Bandy, on Flickr">
<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2096/2290124713_fcd8136938.jpg" width="500" height="336" alt="El Matador State Beach" /></a>
I think the color is a bit more accurate. As far as the halo goes, I actually had not noticed it until you mentioned it. It is not from Gaussian Blur but most likely from overuse of the "Shadows & Highlights" feature in photoshop or too much sharpening. I did not shoot this Raw, though I wish I had. This was taken shortly after buying my first DSLR which I am still using. I now shoot RAW and am a bit more careful when it comes to post processing. As far as the footprint, those are things that I have learned to avoid as I have been improving on my technique. It is not a mistake I will be making again. At the time I can honestly tell you I did not notice it nor did I think about it. I have learned to have more attention to detail since then.
I really love this little stretch of beach in Malibu, specifically for the rocks and boulders everywhere. I have been back many times but due to Southern California's proclivity for sunny cloudless days have not been able to duplicate the great sunset light I had on this day.
On a side note I think I have much to learn about Post Processing (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.). Do you have any classes or books/DVD's you can recommend that might be beneficial for me?
Thanks again for your comments. I greatly appreciate them and I think it is awesome that you are doing this for all of us photogs looking to improve.
Sincerely,
Michael Bandy
When dealing with colors on the internet just make sure you convert to sRGB prior to posting on most sites but especially dgrin. You will find this under the Edit menu in PS. Good to see you are using some cool features in PS like Gaussian Blur and sharpening. When I use shadow/highlights I only use the shadow portion therefore turn the highlights slider all the way off as it tends to only muddy them up. As for the shadows, I apply only very subtle alterations as anything else just adds too much noise. As you shoot more you will learn to take better exposures or understand when to take additional exposures on a tripod with more light, in other words bracket for the shadows. Later in post you can blend the exposures
Those darn footprints:cry I am not saying footprints should NEVER be in a landscape image, only that you know when they are there and use them for part of the story if need be, or just keep them out.
That is a great location in Malibu
I teach post processing in my workshops during critiques and I spend more time on post during the print workshops. If you would like to be added to our mailing list just visit our site for details. To be honest with you there is no book that I know of that explains my post processing techniques, as I have just taken bits and pieces from many masters and created the workflow for me. I do hope to write something in the future
I made a few changes to the jpeg file. First off, desaturated the blues. Second added more density to the rocks to just cover up the halo created by the S/H filter. Then finally converted from ProPhotoRGB to sRGB.
malibusunset.jpg
Shoot these kind of images in RAW and you will have the files to work on when you find time to work on your post processing skills. In the mean time if you need jpegs for emailing and general use, convert the RAW to jpeg through the Tools feature in Bridge, or LR has the same actions available.
Cheers
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Yes I see what you are saying. To be honest I have not been converting the color space and had not realized it was needed until you mentioned it just now. Thank you very much for that piece of advice. I really like the density you added to the rocks and the overall scene is better for it. I really think some of my newer work is much better and the PP is more subtle. One of the reasons I posted this one is I knew there would be some things I could learn from your critique. Once again I appreciate very much your help and I think it is great that you are doing this.
Ok, this is very cool!
It is quite nice that you waited for the fog or mist to clear from the tree, revealing it to add depth, scale and color to this virtually monochromatic image.
The only problem I see with this image is that the composition is split in two a bit. There is the waterfall and then there is the tree
I believe This will help alleviate the split composition as well.
I would try darkening the area around the tree, making it a second read to the powerful water. This will also keep the image from becoming top heavy, by darkening the waterfall.
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Ok, this is very cool!
It is quite nice that you waited for the fog or mist to clear from the tree, revealing it to add depth, scale and color to this virtually monochromatic image.
The only problem I see with this image is that the composition is split in two a bit. There is the waterfall and then there is the tree
I believe This will help alleviate the split composition as well.
I would try darkening the area around the tree, making it a second read to the powerful water. This will also keep the image from becoming top heavy, by darkening the waterfall.[/QUOTE]
First, I really dont believe it makes as good a black and white as color.
Second, I have worked the file in two ways. One the first version with a darker bottom, which is what at first I believed would help. However, after seeing your rendition and attempting myself, believe it look better with a dark top.
What makes it more interesting with a darker top is scale. With the heavy top, the waterfall comes forward making it visually taller
Notice all the color and texture in the granite wall surrounding the waterfall. This appears when the file is darkened by dragging a curve down in a curves adj layer with a gradated mask. I did not saturate the colors!
Great image and I am glad you posted both of your renditions, as it really helps to make the final decisions about a tricky image
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This image works well because of the people.
Imagine though if they were not there?
calfcreekfallsnobody.jpg
For this reason, I would like to see more branches breaking up the shadowed section of the cliff filling in the less interesting wall with detail. Had you had time, a hand held split ND filter in the vertical position would have worked well, something to consider. If no filter than, I am guessing you were hand held? but still if you are quick you can shoot another exposure two stops under for the water. Even though, the shots wont line up perfectly all that matters is lining up the bright section of the interior of the waterfall, something you could do by simple dragging a selection of the image over the other. I know I know, more PS
Now for the good news,
I do like this image and appreciate that you found this composition while several elements were converging and you were probably tired from the long hike in. The light was changing fast, the people were walking around and the exposure is a bugger considering the high contrast. It appears that the timing was critical being that the people were in "the edge of the light". They split up the shadow lines and hold nice diffused light on their bodies, a small but important detail. I also like that the top of the waterfall is not visible, making it appear taller
Finally, what I appreciate most about the image is the size of the people to the waterfall. Great image with wonderful scale and interest.
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Without the people, this image would not see the light of day.
I had taken my tripod down, due to the failing light, as the shadow moved across the water from left to right, and was turning to leave, when I saw the two folks standing in the rim light. I knew that was the shot I had been looking for all morning, IF I could capture it before they moved out of the rim light. I literally had less than 30 seconds to set my tripod back up and shoot one frame! One frame!
I know the negative dark area in the upper left, is a problem, and have tried it lighter and darker ( I have enough detail in the RAW that I can lighten that area or do a screen blend if necessary ) but I prefer it as it is - not black, but not much brighter either. I could certainly be wrong about this, and am most interested in listening to your opinion.
Thank you Marc, and that was my thought immediately when I saw them standing in the rim light. Not in the sunlight, and not in the shadow, but perfectly rim lit. That bright spot in the shadow helped balance the image, and the people gave scale to the waterfall. I learned it from you!
Oh, I was not tired either, Kathy and I had a great time that day. We hiked 3 more miles out, and hiked several more miles after that before the day was over.
If memory serves me, this image is a composite of two renderings from the original RAW file in the waterfall.
Thanks again for commenting.
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I guess the only way you could have improved this would be to have shot additional bracketed exposures just after the people left, but that is not necessary as the image still has enough detail in the shadow to add the interest.
So all in all, Good job, and yes, it is times like this that make photography so intrinsically beautiful. Capturing that single fleeting moment, when all the stars align
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This is a great example of a tangency becoming intrusive.
The composition is wonderful
The choice of aspect ratio is wonderful for the compostion
The light is right
The post processing is looking good
But the river running from the tip of the rock is a problem! Why is it a problem? I believe it draws my eye to it too soon. Furthermore there is an odd effect to the depth of the image because the colors of the river and the rocks are similar. It is as if the river is actually on the same plane as the rocks
I am thinking if you had moved to the right by several feet the river would protrude from the crack in the rocks and place it off center as well.
Any chance you shot one from a different position?
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