You may be just fine and happy with Millers and WHCC, but accurate color they just don't have. You may be happy with them, but you probably have no idea what you're missing. It is what it is.
Actually what I'm fine with isEZPrints Which is our Lab.
I just have a lot of respect for Millers & WHCC quality. And I've used 'em plenty.
New paper
I have found in the past that Endura luster is somewhat plasticky in surface and that the matte paper, which some of my clients and I have preferred, is very susceptible to slight creases if not handled very, very carefully. Are these traits true of the Edge paper? I had not heard of Edge before.
Also, which of these papers would you recommend for monochrome or B&W photos that would be shown behind glass?
Likewise, is one of these papers best color that would be matted and behind glass?
Actually what I'm fine with isEZPrints Which is our Lab.
I just have a lot of respect for Millers & WHCC quality. And I've used 'em plenty.
i meant in general "you", not "you" specifically. i have a lot of respect for WHCC and Millers too. They make a TON of money and are two of the biggest and busiest labs in the country. But as a discriminating photographer, I could care less about how big they are, nor do my clients care either. What they do care about is good looking prints.
I only bring this up simply because you referenced them. You say that EZprints is your lab, thus I hope EZprints (you) is/are going to take accurate color more seriously than labs like WHCC and Millers do. Thats all. If you are using them as a measuring stick then I hope you find a better ruler and come to know the difference (or at least hire someone who knows what they're doing). But then again, maybe really accurate color doesn't matter. Lord knows that its not necessary to be popular and very profitable.
Remember folks, if you're talking about COLOR, its NOT THE PAPER, it's the PROFILE. Longevity is another matter, but with correct and accurate profiles, you will really see NO VISUAL DIFFERENCE between Fuji and Kodak paper. If you see a difference, its not the paper, its the Lab (because of their profile most likely).
hrm...before i EVER sent out a single print to a customer from smugmug, i ordered myself up a 20x30 so i could see what kinda quality it was; whether i felt it was good enough for my customers... i was pleased... i've been using smugmug for ALL my printing for the last year and a half or so...
i hate change, sometimes even if it's for the better.
i do anywhere from 10 to 60 prints per month varying from 4x6's to 20x30's (most being in the 8x12 range) for customers...
i'm a little scared, to be honest, as i know SQUAT about the whole printing thing... i simply do a test run, and if i think I would be happy with it, then i'm comfortable with selling it to customers...
looks like it's time for another test run before i order any more prints. *sigh*
EDIT// just ordered up an 8x12 of each flavor of these shots; gloss, matte, and luster. *crosses fingers*
I have found in the past that Endura luster is somewhat plasticky in surface and that the matte paper, which some of my clients and I have preferred, is very susceptible to slight creases if not handled very, very carefully. Are these traits true of the Edge paper? I had not heard of Edge before.
Also, which of these papers would you recommend for monochrome or B&W photos that would be shown behind glass?
Likewise, is one of these papers best color that would be matted and behind glass?
Thanks.
Dan
Dan,
I would not do monochrome here. It isn't a true B&W rendition at EZPrints, at least not yet. The indication is we may get it as a part of this change according to Andy. If you want an excellent and true B&W, go to MPIX. They have a totally Monochrome process you can use. There is a huge difference in reproducing B&W and actually processing for B&W.
Why is there only one profile for multiple paper types?
That is an excellent question. We use individual output profiles for each printer/paper combination and that is what does the output mapping of the colors. Remember the profile is a snapshot of where the printer sits on balance and linearization so if we map each color to the same place no matter what paper or printer it goes to you should only need one profile to tell you where that point is. When you use our soft proofing profile you are seeing where these points are and can then determine if that is what you want or if adjustments are necessary. We want to make a rock solid base of color so the pallet remains the same and you are in drivers seat.
Some technical points on our procedures are also that we balance our printers every time we change a roll of paper, not once a day, or a week. We do a complete linearization which balances steps all the way from Black to white not just normal and over and under. We read and plot our linearizations to make sure that a change in paper emulsion does not have an adverse effect on any images. We also do our profiling with an Xrite iSis
This is a award winning tool to create and maintain profiles and it has enabled us to create 4000 mapping point profiles and constantly maintain them. This allows smooth mapping of colors and with the proper adjustments to the printer Dmax points to take advantage of all the paper gamut the paper has to offer. This is the pop in the paper and the end points are the critical adjustments that allow us to get the most gamut without compromising linearity or gray scale balance. We start with these excellent 4000 point profiles and then continue to analyze them numerically to make sure the printer and paper can indeed map to all points and still maintain great flesh tones and good color saturation without going to the cartoonish side.
On the chemistry side each machine is monitored hourly for proper chemical balance and replenishment. Without proper chemical balance our color control would not be possible.
Hope this fills in some of the details.
David Egolf CafePress Svcs.
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
I would not do monochrome here. It isn't a true B&W rendition at EZPrints, at least not yet. The indication is we may get it as a part of this change according to Andy. If you want an excellent and true B&W, go to MPIX. They have a totally Monochrome process you can use. There is a huge difference in reproducing B&W and actually processing for B&W.
Jay S.
Agreed. This is why it is in the pipeline. We are looking at only the best implementation of each type of processing. Currently Durst Theta units are set up for Black and White with Ilford papers and gray scale profiles which while being excellent do not afford the opportunity to do all types of Black and White papers such as fine art papers and non resin coated papers. If and when we offer true Black and White we want to be able to offer all options.
David Egolf CafePress Svcs.
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
I have found in the past that Endura luster is somewhat plasticky in surface and that the matte paper, which some of my clients and I have preferred, is very susceptible to slight creases if not handled very, very carefully. Are these traits true of the Edge paper? I had not heard of Edge before.
Also, which of these papers would you recommend for monochrome or B&W photos that would be shown behind glass?
Likewise, is one of these papers best color that would be matted and behind glass?
Thanks.
Dan
We are very careful to check the linearity and gray balance of all of our profiles to get neutrality in the full gamut of images. Also on the surface issue some of this depends on the drying capabilities of the printers. Paper has to be dried correctly, hot at first and then cooled down gradually. If a paper is made too hot it will change the finish especially on matte as it will gloss up.
Thanks
David Egolf CafePress Svcs.
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
Agreed. This is why it is in the pipeline. We are looking at only the best implementation of each type of processing. Currently Durst Theta units are set up for Black and White with Ilford papers and gray scale profiles which while being excellent do not afford the opportunity to do all types of Black and White papers such as fine art papers and non resin coated papers. If and when we offer true Black and White we want to be able to offer all options.
Dave,
Thanks for replying. I do think the Ilford papers do an excellent job on B&W, and hope that is an option.
WIth regard to some of Stan's comments on papers and profiles. I agree that the correct profiling by any lab is critical to the output. There is an inherent difference though in the absorbtion of these papers as well, which does effect the result, not just the profiling, in my opinion. The point being that a properly profiled Kodak and a properly profiled Fuji should, in theory, both show excellent results. That doesn't mean that side by side they will be exactly the same. There are just basic differences in the papers themselves. Those difference impact more than just longevity, IMHO. Proper profiling (and processing) brings out the best in each paper. The question is whose best is better? :-)
Thanks again... looking forward to excellent B&Ws (if and when we get them)!
I'm looking forward to Metallics!! I was hunting for a lab that offers them, but now I don't have to. The samples I've seen really pop. Thanks and may the force be with Smugmug!!
It is in the pipeline.
David Egolf CafePress Svcs.
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
Thanks for replying. I do think the Ilford papers do an excellent job on B&W, and hope that is an option.
With regard to some of Stan's comments on papers and profiles. I agree that the correct profiling by any lab is critical to the output. There is an inherent difference though in the absorption of these papers as well, which does effect the result, not just the profiling, in my opinion. The point being that a properly profiled Kodak and a properly profiled Fuji should, in theory, both show excellent results. That doesn't mean that side by side they will be exactly the same. There are just basic differences in the papers themselves. Those difference impact more than just longevity, IMHO. Proper profiling (and processing) brings out the best in each paper. The question is whose best is better? :-)
Thanks again... looking forward to excellent B&Ws (if and when we get them)!
Jay S.
You are correct, no matter how much nulling we do with balance and profiling there are differences in the papers. In balancing all printers the setting of the Dmax is crucial to getting everything out of the paper it has to give. This has to be done with the chemistry in mind and to set it as close to the top without going over the shoulder of the curves. The individual curves top out at a specific point and beyond that we cannot adjust due to loosing gray balance so if a particular paper can only achieve a 1.30 in the red it does not matter that it can go above in the green or blue. The big difference can also be how well the chemistry is maintained and replenished. If everything is not neutral with the developer at LD and HD-LD point then all the balancing will not bring it inside that split and this must be maintained through the linear part of the paper response curves. The entire system is only as good as the weakest link. Beyond the qualifying and quantifying equally it comes down then to personal taste as to paper choice.
David Egolf CafePress Svcs.
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
You are correct, no matter how much nulling we do with balance and profiling there are differences in the papers. In balancing all printers the setting of the Dmax is crucial to getting everything out of the paper it has to give. This has to be done with the chemistry in mind and to set it as close to the top without going over the shoulder of the curves. The individual curves top out at a specific point and beyond that we cannot adjust due to loosing gray balance so if a particular paper can only achieve a 1.30 in the red it does not matter that it can go above in the green or blue. The big difference can also be how well the chemistry is maintained and replenished. If everything is not neutral with the developer at LD and HD-LD point then all the balancing will not bring it inside that split and this must be maintained through the linear part of the paper response curves. The entire system is only as good as the weakest link. Beyond the qualifying and quantifying equally it comes down then to personal taste as to paper choice.
Dave,
Again thanks for fielding all this (and running a business). That, I think, is to the point of what some folks were indicating on the levels of "saturation" from one paper to another. I have to say I don't have those numbers in front of me relative to your 1.30 example above for Red. It is "perception" that the Fuji Crystal's abilities to take more in was always greater than Kodak's at least for my eyes. I'm assuming that you max'd out the Fuji that same way you're doing it now with the Kodak. I've ordered a couple of 8x10s on the new Kodak "Lustre" and have their Fuji counterparts here. It will be interesting to see. Thanks again.
Agreed. This is why it is in the pipeline. We are looking at only the best implementation of each type of processing. Currently Durst Theta units are set up for Black and White with Ilford papers and gray scale profiles which while being excellent do not afford the opportunity to do all types of Black and White papers such as fine art papers and non resin coated papers. If and when we offer true Black and White we want to be able to offer all options.
I dearly hope that you will offer true Black and White. I, like other posters, do like the one-stop shopping, and want this to be part of what I do and part of what I offer clients. I think this is far more important, though possibly more difficult and expensive, than adding metallic paper to the line-up.
By the way, I just got matte and glossy prints of the calibration sheet, on Fuji paper, from Smugmug last week. Should I now re-order on the Kodak paper?
By the way, I just got matte and glossy prints of the calibration sheet, on Fuji paper, from Smugmug last week. Should I now re-order on the Kodak paper?
Thanks.
Dan
Send a note, ATTN Robin, to our help desk, we'll get you new ones
Terrific switch!
Just another vote of approval for the paper switch! I've always had a big preference for Kodak e-surface lustre. I think it's easier to get great skin tones than on Fuji's.
Of course this is entirely subjective, but I've always thought the photogs who preferred the saturation and look of Fuji were looking for the rich greens, magentas, and blue skies in landscape and nature photography. For people/ flesh tones, Kodak seems to me to be the sure winner. Again, totally subjective.
So should we all order new calibration prints? A sale on calibration prints in conjunction with the switch could be the icing on the cake.
You guys might want to update the fotoflot page because it mentions Fuji paper as what we're used to. Does fotoflot use Fuji still or is it also now Kodak? Either way, this page needs updating...
fotoflōts are professionally printed on the same fuji-crystal archive paper that you're used to from SmugMug then mounted onto 1/8" acrylic. The final step in this patented process is a laser trim and finish, leaving a gorgeous polished edge and a print that floats off the wall.
i just wanted to add one last note. with the change of paper to kodak and with my previous comments with regards to profiling papers, i've done a test print with EZprints on their kodak endura lustre and i'm happy to say that the profile is excellent. i've seen many highly respected pro labs run this exact same paper and they profile it horribly, but this is not the case with EZprints. very accurate color and excellent saturation. keep up the good work!
i just wanted to add one last note. with the change of paper to kodak and with my previous comments with regards to profiling papers, i've done a test print with EZprints on their kodak endura lustre and i'm happy to say that the profile is excellent. i've seen many highly respected pro labs run this exact same paper and they profile it horribly, but this is not the case with EZprints. very accurate color and excellent saturation. keep up the good work!
I've always been a major fan of the Endura paper. I've stuck with other labs for that reason. Now since I changed my printing to a St. Louis lab I was jolted back to Fuji which I don't prefer
still waiting to get my prints. i think they came in already, but to my biz address. ain't been in the "office" for ~5 days now. i love being able to be a slacker.
I have to admit that all of this talk about metallic paper made me wonder what I was missing. I have to admit that I just cheated and ordered a couple prints from mpix. Ordered on Sunday and they arrived today (Tuesday).
They're AWESOME! I can't wait for EZPrints to have this option through Smuggy!!!:D
We are updating many pages, but not that one. fotoflots are printed by fotoflot, not EZPrints, and thus they are still on Fuji Crystal Archive.
I think the point was that the phrase "the same fuji-crystal archive paper that you're used to from SmugMug" is no longer entirely accurate, since we're soon to be used to gorgeous Endrua paper from Kodak. (I've got a handfull of Endura prints around the house already, not from EZprints... so I actually thought the previous Lustre papers were an improvement. I can't wait to see my first order of prints from EZPrints to compare. )
SmugMug Sorcerer - Engineering Team Champion for Commerce, Finance, Security, and Data Support http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
I think the point was that the phrase "the same fuji-crystal archive paper that you're used to from SmugMug" is no longer entirely accurate, since we're soon to be used to gorgeous Endrua paper from Kodak. (I've got a handfull of Endura prints around the house already, not from EZprints... so I actually thought the previous Lustre papers were an improvement. I can't wait to see my first order of prints from EZPrints to compare. )
Yes, that portion is gone already. Looks like this:
finally got my prints today. they'd been sitting in the mailbox at the office, i just hadn't been in to retreive them...
all the prints seem to be on thinner paper. i grabbed a fuji paper print really quick just to see if i was crazy or not, but, thankfully, i'm not. it really IS thinner paper... almost feels "cheaper."
glossy - looks great. again, thin paper, but the print itself looks excellent. i'd be happy with pics of myself on said paper.
matte - meh. looks "blotchy" for lack of better words. plus, i'm accustomed to seeing matte finishes on THICK paper...so this whole thin paper thing was kinda weird. i won't be ordering any matte prints for customers in the future unless they specify they want matte...
luster - looks great. paper seems thicker than both the matte and gloss finishes too. more like the old fuji paper...
like i said before, i know SQUAT about printing...i simply know what LOOKS GOOD and what doesn't look good. YMMV.
Comments
Actually what I'm fine with isEZPrints
I just have a lot of respect for Millers & WHCC quality. And I've used 'em plenty.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I have found in the past that Endura luster is somewhat plasticky in surface and that the matte paper, which some of my clients and I have preferred, is very susceptible to slight creases if not handled very, very carefully. Are these traits true of the Edge paper? I had not heard of Edge before.
Also, which of these papers would you recommend for monochrome or B&W photos that would be shown behind glass?
Likewise, is one of these papers best color that would be matted and behind glass?
Thanks.
Dan
i meant in general "you", not "you" specifically. i have a lot of respect for WHCC and Millers too. They make a TON of money and are two of the biggest and busiest labs in the country. But as a discriminating photographer, I could care less about how big they are, nor do my clients care either. What they do care about is good looking prints.
I only bring this up simply because you referenced them. You say that EZprints is your lab, thus I hope EZprints (you) is/are going to take accurate color more seriously than labs like WHCC and Millers do. Thats all. If you are using them as a measuring stick then I hope you find a better ruler and come to know the difference (or at least hire someone who knows what they're doing). But then again, maybe really accurate color doesn't matter. Lord knows that its not necessary to be popular and very profitable.
Remember folks, if you're talking about COLOR, its NOT THE PAPER, it's the PROFILE. Longevity is another matter, but with correct and accurate profiles, you will really see NO VISUAL DIFFERENCE between Fuji and Kodak paper. If you see a difference, its not the paper, its the Lab (because of their profile most likely).
i hate change, sometimes even if it's for the better.
i do anywhere from 10 to 60 prints per month varying from 4x6's to 20x30's (most being in the 8x12 range) for customers...
i'm a little scared, to be honest, as i know SQUAT about the whole printing thing... i simply do a test run, and if i think I would be happy with it, then i'm comfortable with selling it to customers...
looks like it's time for another test run before i order any more prints. *sigh*
EDIT// just ordered up an 8x12 of each flavor of these shots; gloss, matte, and luster. *crosses fingers*
Dan,
I would not do monochrome here. It isn't a true B&W rendition at EZPrints, at least not yet. The indication is we may get it as a part of this change according to Andy. If you want an excellent and true B&W, go to MPIX. They have a totally Monochrome process you can use. There is a huge difference in reproducing B&W and actually processing for B&W.
Jay S.
Some technical points on our procedures are also that we balance our printers every time we change a roll of paper, not once a day, or a week. We do a complete linearization which balances steps all the way from Black to white not just normal and over and under. We read and plot our linearizations to make sure that a change in paper emulsion does not have an adverse effect on any images. We also do our profiling with an Xrite iSis
http://www.xrite.com/documents/literature/en/IsisPR_en.pdf
This is a award winning tool to create and maintain profiles and it has enabled us to create 4000 mapping point profiles and constantly maintain them. This allows smooth mapping of colors and with the proper adjustments to the printer Dmax points to take advantage of all the paper gamut the paper has to offer. This is the pop in the paper and the end points are the critical adjustments that allow us to get the most gamut without compromising linearity or gray scale balance. We start with these excellent 4000 point profiles and then continue to analyze them numerically to make sure the printer and paper can indeed map to all points and still maintain great flesh tones and good color saturation without going to the cartoonish side.
On the chemistry side each machine is monitored hourly for proper chemical balance and replenishment. Without proper chemical balance our color control would not be possible.
Hope this fills in some of the details.
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
Agreed. This is why it is in the pipeline. We are looking at only the best implementation of each type of processing. Currently Durst Theta units are set up for Black and White with Ilford papers and gray scale profiles which while being excellent do not afford the opportunity to do all types of Black and White papers such as fine art papers and non resin coated papers. If and when we offer true Black and White we want to be able to offer all options.
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
We are very careful to check the linearity and gray balance of all of our profiles to get neutrality in the full gamut of images. Also on the surface issue some of this depends on the drying capabilities of the printers. Paper has to be dried correctly, hot at first and then cooled down gradually. If a paper is made too hot it will change the finish especially on matte as it will gloss up.
Thanks
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
Dave,
Thanks for replying. I do think the Ilford papers do an excellent job on B&W, and hope that is an option.
WIth regard to some of Stan's comments on papers and profiles. I agree that the correct profiling by any lab is critical to the output. There is an inherent difference though in the absorbtion of these papers as well, which does effect the result, not just the profiling, in my opinion. The point being that a properly profiled Kodak and a properly profiled Fuji should, in theory, both show excellent results. That doesn't mean that side by side they will be exactly the same. There are just basic differences in the papers themselves. Those difference impact more than just longevity, IMHO. Proper profiling (and processing) brings out the best in each paper. The question is whose best is better? :-)
Thanks again... looking forward to excellent B&Ws (if and when we get them)!
Jay S.
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
You are correct, no matter how much nulling we do with balance and profiling there are differences in the papers. In balancing all printers the setting of the Dmax is crucial to getting everything out of the paper it has to give. This has to be done with the chemistry in mind and to set it as close to the top without going over the shoulder of the curves. The individual curves top out at a specific point and beyond that we cannot adjust due to loosing gray balance so if a particular paper can only achieve a 1.30 in the red it does not matter that it can go above in the green or blue. The big difference can also be how well the chemistry is maintained and replenished. If everything is not neutral with the developer at LD and HD-LD point then all the balancing will not bring it inside that split and this must be maintained through the linear part of the paper response curves. The entire system is only as good as the weakest link. Beyond the qualifying and quantifying equally it comes down then to personal taste as to paper choice.
1890 Beaver Ridge Circle
Norcross, GA 30071
W : 678-405-5500 ext 5620
C : 678-790-4553
Dave,
Again thanks for fielding all this (and running a business). That, I think, is to the point of what some folks were indicating on the levels of "saturation" from one paper to another. I have to say I don't have those numbers in front of me relative to your 1.30 example above for Red. It is "perception" that the Fuji Crystal's abilities to take more in was always greater than Kodak's at least for my eyes. I'm assuming that you max'd out the Fuji that same way you're doing it now with the Kodak. I've ordered a couple of 8x10s on the new Kodak "Lustre" and have their Fuji counterparts here. It will be interesting to see. Thanks again.
Jay S.
I dearly hope that you will offer true Black and White. I, like other posters, do like the one-stop shopping, and want this to be part of what I do and part of what I offer clients. I think this is far more important, though possibly more difficult and expensive, than adding metallic paper to the line-up.
By the way, I just got matte and glossy prints of the calibration sheet, on Fuji paper, from Smugmug last week. Should I now re-order on the Kodak paper?
Thanks.
Dan
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That's great and thanks for the response but when can this link get updated on the smug mug website?
http://www.smugmug.com/help/lustre
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Just another vote of approval for the paper switch! I've always had a big preference for Kodak e-surface lustre. I think it's easier to get great skin tones than on Fuji's.
Of course this is entirely subjective, but I've always thought the photogs who preferred the saturation and look of Fuji were looking for the rich greens, magentas, and blue skies in landscape and nature photography. For people/ flesh tones, Kodak seems to me to be the sure winner. Again, totally subjective.
So should we all order new calibration prints? A sale on calibration prints in conjunction with the switch could be the icing on the cake.
i've already ordered up some... i'll let you know when i get them. i suspect that'll be on monday.
http://www.smugmug.com/prints/fotoflot
fotoflōts are professionally printed on the same fuji-crystal archive paper that you're used to from SmugMug then mounted onto 1/8" acrylic. The final step in this patented process is a laser trim and finish, leaving a gorgeous polished edge and a print that floats off the wall.
scwalter.smugmug.com
We are updating many pages, but not that one. fotoflots are printed by fotoflot, not EZPrints, and thus they are still on Fuji Crystal Archive.
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Printed this image 12x12 and it looks stunning in lustre!
http://clearwaterphotography.smugmug.com/
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I've always been a major fan of the Endura paper. I've stuck with other labs for that reason. Now since I changed my printing to a St. Louis lab I was jolted back to Fuji which I don't prefer
Great Change!
They're AWESOME! I can't wait for EZPrints to have this option through Smuggy!!!:D
I think the point was that the phrase "the same fuji-crystal archive paper that you're used to from SmugMug" is no longer entirely accurate, since we're soon to be used to gorgeous Endrua paper from Kodak. (I've got a handfull of Endura prints around the house already, not from EZprints... so I actually thought the previous Lustre papers were an improvement. I can't wait to see my first order of prints from EZPrints to compare.
http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
but it's not on the live site yet - will be soon
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all the prints seem to be on thinner paper. i grabbed a fuji paper print really quick just to see if i was crazy or not, but, thankfully, i'm not. it really IS thinner paper... almost feels "cheaper."
glossy - looks great. again, thin paper, but the print itself looks excellent. i'd be happy with pics of myself on said paper.
matte - meh. looks "blotchy" for lack of better words. plus, i'm accustomed to seeing matte finishes on THICK paper...so this whole thin paper thing was kinda weird. i won't be ordering any matte prints for customers in the future unless they specify they want matte...
luster - looks great. paper seems thicker than both the matte and gloss finishes too. more like the old fuji paper...
like i said before, i know SQUAT about printing...i simply know what LOOKS GOOD and what doesn't look good. YMMV.