Yeah you posted that pic before, and I acknowledged that it's broken there for ff, the spinners, and that bwg is fixing it. I wasn't sure about the word "ugly" in context. OK, mooooving on from that bit.
Yeah you posted that pic before, and I acknowledged that it's broken there for ff, the spinners, and that bwg is fixing it. I wasn't sure about the word "ugly" in context. OK, mooooving on from that bit.
They are ugly because of the alignment problem - nothing else meant by it.
What I hate to see is you can't just throw stuff in the cart and continue to look at photos. Picking one here and there to buy. As it it now one pick and you're in the cart, duh, what do I do now, wasn't ready for this, new mind set. I think it would be much easier, simpler, if they never leave the photos until they are ready. Probably sell lots more that way and them carts will fill faster. They know stuff is in their cart and will eventually check it, but then think, oops forgot some and continue shopping again.
Bottom line, cart decision comes way too early and deflects away from selecting photos.
Allen, I'm not sure why this is an issue with the new cart? The method of adding photos hasn't changed from new old cart to new. Both single and batch add give you to the option to proceed to the cart or return to photos, same as they always have. Let me know what I'm missing.
Allen, I'm not sure why this is an issue with the new cart? The method of adding photos hasn't changed from new old cart to new. Both single and batch add give you to the option to proceed to the cart or return to photos, same as they always have. Let me know what I'm missing.
Yal, the old cart acted the same. But I would rather viewers just keep on browsing and throwing photos in the cart and not distract them with a popup window on every "add to cart". That's a lot of work for grandma.:D Also just noticed if you hit "Back to Photos" without adding a qty you lose the photo in the cart, no warning.
Also just noticed if you hit "Back to Photos" without adding a qty you lose the photo in the cart, no warning.
so you're talking about the in-gallery add interface... it's been like this since we released it a year ago. nothing has changed with the in-gallery add to cart.
Pedal faster
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BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
is ambiguous what it's going to do. Several of us thought it would let us adjust the crop, but that's not what it does. That's not good. That is a clear UI problem.
Yes, we felt that as we watched several people around the office do the same as you, so we've debated the issue internally as well.
But we feel the best thing is to watch the issue for awhile for a couple of reasons. One is no easy answer has come to mind, at least that we've heard. We know that depending on our back to photos button doesn't work for long carts, especially with ones containing photos from multiple galleries.
A second is we want to understand beginning and intermediate users who represent the majority of cart users, and we haven't had time for that yet.
And third, since it looks like the answer could be a fairly involved change, I have to wonder whether spending the time on solving coupons doesn't offer a better return for everyone involved.
We didn't anticipate this issue because the behavior is the same as the cart has always been, so we're only a few days and a few people into gathering feedback about it.
Yal, the old cart acted the same. But I would rather viewers just keep on browsing and throwing photos in the cart and not distract them with a popup window on every "add to cart". That's a lot of work for grandma.:D Also just noticed if you hit "Back to Photos" without adding a qty you lose the photo in the cart, no warning.
Allen, isn't the problem that just pressing "Buy This Photo" doesn't tell Smugmug or the cart what you want to buy. You've indicated an interest in that photo, but haven't picked a product (print size, etc...). So, it's hard for Smugmug to put something in the cart without the customer saying what exactly they want in the cart.
To do as you were requesting, they'd have to redesign the whole flow. You'd pick a bunch of photos you were interested in (just pressing a button when the photo is displayed with no other screen popping up), nothing in the cart yet, just a list of photos kept somehow and then you'd have a separate workflow step where you picked an actual product for each photo before you could see anything in the cart.
Allowing a customer to "pick" a list of photos they are interested in and then do things with that list (buy products using that list, send people the list, etc...) would be a cool capability, but it's likely a pretty major feature addition.
Yes, we felt that as we watched several people around the office do the same as you, so we've debated the issue internally as well.
But we feel the best thing is to watch the issue for awhile for a couple of reasons. One is no easy answer has come to mind, at least that we've heard. We know that depending on our back to photos button doesn't work for long carts, especially with ones containing photos from multiple galleries.
A second is we want to understand beginning and intermediate users who represent the majority of cart users, and we haven't had time for that yet.
And third, since it looks like the answer could be a fairly involved change, I have to wonder whether spending the time on solving coupons doesn't offer a better return for everyone involved.
We didn't anticipate this issue because the behavior is the same as the cart has always been, so we're only a few days and a few people into gathering feedback about it.
OK, as long as you're keeping an eye on it and prioritizing it with other things, that's fine. I thought you were arguing it wasn't an issue.
I think the new fancier graphics invite one to manipulate that icon directly. My first inclination was to drag the crop around right in that image. After all, it has handles that look like one might be able to directly manipulate them. When that didn't do anything, I then figured I'd click on it to adjust the crop. So, while it's structurally been this way for awhile, I never felt as invited to click on it before and now I'm actually fooled by thinking I can directly manipulate it.
I think the new fancier graphics invite one to manipulate that icon directly. My first inclination was to drag the crop around right in that image. After all, it has handles that look like one might be able to directly manipulate them. When that didn't do anything, I then figured I'd click on it to adjust the crop. So, while it's structurally been this way for awhile, I never felt as invited to click on it before and now I'm actually fooled by thinking I can directly manipulate it.
Baldy, what if you just change the border to something that indicates the crop but does not have the same handles that indicate that it might be modified?
Baldy, what if you just change the border to something that indicates the crop but does not have the same handles that indicate that it might be modified?
-r
Or just remove the link to the photo, let the image with crop overlay be just an image, no link to anything. After one or two clicks (or not seeing the 'hand') most folks will figure it out. Having a hotlink just makes things messy, IMHO.
I think the new fancier graphics invite one to manipulate that icon directly. My first inclination was to drag the crop around right in that image. After all, it has handles that look like one might be able to directly manipulate them. When that didn't do anything, I then figured I'd click on it to adjust the crop. So, while it's structurally been this way for awhile, I never felt as invited to click on it before and now I'm actually fooled by thinking I can directly manipulate it.
Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head.
I think we want them to recognize that they can change the crop because a lot of heads get sliced from people not realizing what the lines meant and that they could change the crop.
Maybe the answer is as simple as placing a keep shopping link under the thumb and making the thumb link to the cropping tool. But there are some questions in my mind, like what do you do when people have selected the no-crop option? What about when the croplines don't appear because the photo fits the paper?
Another is, and you're going to say this is a terrible way to think, but I wonder if this is really material or an annoyance? What I mean is, you click and get surprised that it takes you to the gallery so you have to click the back or cart buttons to return. But you've learned how to keep shopping with that annoying click, and when you return the cropping button is pretty obvious. You all found it.
That sounds like it could fall into the annoyance category.
No coupons? No folded cards? No framing options? Those sound material to me and more worthy of precious engineering resources.
I think we want them to recognize that they can change the crop because a lot of heads get sliced from people not realizing what the lines meant and that they could change the crop.
Maybe the answer is as simple as placing a keep shopping link under the thumb and making the thumb link to the cropping tool. But there are some questions in my mind, like what do you do when people have selected the no-crop option? What about when the croplines don't appear because the photo fits the paper?
Another is, and you're going to say this is a terrible way to think, but I wonder if this is really material or an annoyance? What I mean is, you click and get surprised that it takes you to the gallery so you have to click the back or cart buttons to return. But you've learned how to keep shopping with that annoying click, and when you return the cropping button is pretty obvious. You all found it.
That sounds like it could fall into the annoyance category.
No coupons? No folded cards? No framing options? Those sound material to me and more worthy of precious engineering resources.
I know myself from reviewing hundreds of proof-delay print orders that most of my customers don't set an appropriate crop when the image doesn't fit the print size. So, you're definitely right on in trying to make that more obvious and friendly. It is the single most messed up thing in all the print orders I've seen. Further, your current UI has a visual separation between showing them the currently set crop and the control for acting on the crop. The two are relatively near each other, but visually don't seem to be related to one another. And, the crop options are kind of a mix of state and actions. They say Auto, None and Adjust. Auto and None are a state. Adjust is an action (and kind of also a state). That, I think, makes it a little harder to understand. All of this confusion are further reasons why I think it would be cool to let you adjust the crop by clicking on the new nifty crop display.
As to whether you think it's important enough to spend any more time on, that's clearly up to you and you will have to weigh it against the business benefits of the other things you could do.
One of the reasons I started the thread on UI polish is because, in isolation, no single UI polish issue will ever feel like it's important enough to work on versus any new feature. It is always hard to imagine how you ever lose business because you don't do a polish issue and it's always easy to imagine how you lose business if you don't do a new feature.
But a flock of UI polish issues really give your product a different feel than a well polished one. In the end, it does really impact your business. You end up having to decide what kind of product you want to have. Are you an Apple type product or a Microsoft type product? If you want to have a highly polished one, then you just have to allocate a separate engineering budget in your head for polish issues that isn't regularly traded off versus new features. If you don't, then most polish issues just won't get prioritized high enough to get done (unless the individual engineer just does them on their own out of pride - but that isn't scalable or consistent as your team of developers grows).
This is one of those polish issues. Could we all live with it? Sure. But at the same time, it's one of those UI polish issues that impacts the overall slickness of the experience. You don't have to do them all, but leave too many untouched and you're producing Microsoft products instead of Apple products. You will have to pick the right balance.
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited June 29, 2008
We currently have a version on one of our test servers that does link to the cropping tool, and adds a link on the left by the filename and studio name that says, "See this photo in gallery" or something like that.
Drop me an email and I can get you access to it. This is something I'd like to put in front of everyday consumers and watch them use before we release the hounds.
My customers are confused by SmugMug Crop Info
Hi all,
Okay, a week ago, if a client chose a print size, they were informed that cropping was required. This was fine, my clients were a bit confused as to how to proceed, but at least they knew cropping was required.
Now with the new smugmug store interface, there is no concrete note that cropping is required to fit their chosen print size.
Please-Please-Please add some kind of notification to the clients that are paying both of our bills that their image requires cropping or will have a white border....
I'm kind of surprised that this isn't a huge red flag to notify the clients about the need to crop or end up with an image that is not full-page.
Hi, and thanks for posting - it's great feedback.
I
I'm a bit confused though, is this not good?
New:
Old:
So, another thing, just in case the customer doesn't get it right, we very highly recommend our Pros make use of our Proof Delay feature.
Proof Delay allows you to review the order before it's sent to print,
make corrections and changes to the cropping as well as auto versus true
color. Best of all, you have the opportunity to totally replace any
image that is ordered, with your choice of a replacement, still allowing
you to adjust the crop and color setting after replacing it. For more
info on this, please see the links below which would eliminate any
problems in the future:
Okay, a week ago, if a client chose a print size, they were informed that cropping was required. This was fine, my clients were a bit confused as to how to proceed, but at least they knew cropping was required.
Now with the new smugmug store interface, there is no concrete note that cropping is required to fit their chosen print size.
Please-Please-Please add some kind of notification to the clients that are paying both of our bills that their image requires cropping or will have a white border....
I'm kind of surprised that this isn't a huge red flag to notify the clients about the need to crop or end up with an image that is not full-page.
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited July 2, 2008
Okay, we're about to make a couple of changes based on what we read here. Please stop us if we're gonna make heads explode that we didn't think of.
First, cropping:
Added: link in the lower left that takes you back to the gallery to keep shopping.
Changed: Now you click on the thumb and the cropping tool comes up. The important thing is it comes up if you see the croplines (expected), if there are no croplines (that might surprise some people?), and even if the no-crop option is set.
The thinking is:
1. You probably want consistent behavior. If sometimes you can click to bring up the crop tool and sometimes not, seems like a problem.
2. Although a given image may have no croplines because it fits the paper perfectly, you still might want to crop.
3. If you change the crop on an image with no-crop set, we'll change the button to the crop position after you do.
I am sure this is gonna throw some people who are used to clicking the thumbnail to go back to the gallery, but hopefully they'll see the link and learn.
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited July 2, 2008
Second, color:
Our proposal is:
1. Remove the color choice button from the shopping cart.
2. Default all users to auto-color, including pros, going forward , (no changes to current galleries). This is because returns for true color prints is 10:1 over autocolor, even from pros.
3. Enable everyone to force true color on a gallery-by-gallery basis.
4. Do not enable an option to display the auto/true button in the cart.
The big gotcha: We don't want to mess up pros who are used to the default being true and catch them by surprise when the next gallery they create is auto by default. And they have to figure out quick settings, yada yada.
But on the other had, returns from the true color option are high...
So I suppose the best thing is to send communications to all pros in advance with a link to a page to explain what the change is with step-by-step instructions on how to do quick settings.
Or I suppose we could consider a global option (and do it for square thumbs while we're at it), but I can't commit to that without talking to the engineers.
1. Remove the color choice button from the shopping cart.
2. Default all users to auto-color, including pros, going forward , (no changes to current galleries). This is because returns for true color prints is 10:1 over autocolor, even from pros.
3. Enable everyone to force true color on a gallery-by-gallery basis.
4. Do not enable an option to display the auto/true button in the cart.
The big gotcha: We don't want to mess up pros who are used to the default being true and catch them by surprise when the next gallery they create is auto by default. And they have to figure out quick settings, yada yada.
But on the other had, returns from the true color option are high...
So I suppose the best thing is to send communications to all pros in advance with a link to a page to explain what the change is with step-by-step instructions on how to do quick settings.
Or I suppose we could consider a global option (and do it for square thumbs while we're at it), but I can't commit to that without talking to the engineers.
Both changes look good to me. I know I was one who provided feedback on the cropping UI, so thanks for listening.
I also think it will be great to take the color option away from the buyer and give the seller control over it. Not only will you be removing the most confusing option there is in the cart, but you will be giving people who know what they are doing control over the option. I'm cool with a default of auto. I'm already used to setting this in the gallery options when I create the gallery. Like the shape of thumbs, it would be nice to be able to set a global default that all new galleries inherit by default, but I can live with setting it on each gallery when I create it.
1. Remove the color choice button from the shopping cart.
2. Default all users to auto-color, including pros, going forward , (no changes to current galleries). This is because returns for true color prints is 10:1 over autocolor, even from pros.
3. Enable everyone to force true color on a gallery-by-gallery basis.
4. Do not enable an option to display the auto/true button in the cart.
The big gotcha: We don't want to mess up pros who are used to the default being true and catch them by surprise when the next gallery they create is auto by default. And they have to figure out quick settings, yada yada.
But on the other had, returns from the true color option are high...
So I suppose the best thing is to send communications to all pros in advance with a link to a page to explain what the change is with step-by-step instructions on how to do quick settings.
Or I suppose we could consider a global option (and do it for square thumbs while we're at it), but I can't commit to that without talking to the engineers.
I agree with John - and I was one of those early 'voices' also - this sounds like the best solution and will decrease the 'true' returns in the long run too... and your idea to alert the pros is right on the money!!
Okay, we're about to make a couple of changes based on what we read here. Please stop us if we're gonna make heads explode that we didn't think of.
First, cropping:
Added: link in the lower left that takes you back to the gallery to keep shopping.
Changed: Now you click on the thumb and the cropping tool comes up. The important thing is it comes up if you see the croplines (expected), if there are no croplines (that might surprise some people?), and even if the no-crop option is set.
The thinking is:
1. You probably want consistent behavior. If sometimes you can click to bring up the crop tool and sometimes not, seems like a problem.
2. Although a given image may have no croplines because it fits the paper perfectly, you still might want to crop.
3. If you change the crop on an image with no-crop set, we'll change the button to the crop position after you do.
I am sure this is gonna throw some people who are used to clicking the thumbnail to go back to the gallery, but hopefully they'll see the link and learn.
Good change? Bad? Gotchas?
The click photo to crop is good...
In my case I only offer 2x3 aspect ratio print sizes
which eliminates any need to crop to fit (although they can crop for a 'larger/closer' image if they desire) no problem here.
What isn't clear is your "#3" above - do you mean if I set "no crop" and they ( the customer) attempt to crop - can they? and what will the result be??
I'm a bit confused, but it may be due to the particular screenshot in your post. I don't see the obvious crop lines with "handles" that were introduced with the recent upgrade, which I think is what drove a lot of this discussion to begin with. Those new crop lines were so obvious that lots of people expected the crop window to come up when they clicked on them. Did you get rid of them in favor of a more minimalist frame, or is it just this image. I'm concerned that if those lines disappear then it won't be obvious to click the image to crop it.
I'll bet there are days when you feel like you just can't win. Been there, done that. But thanks for being so customer focused!
Added: link in the lower left that takes you back to the gallery to keep shopping.
Changed: Now you click on the thumb and the cropping tool comes up. The important thing is it comes up if you see the croplines (expected), if there are no croplines (that might surprise some people?), and even if the no-crop option is set.
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BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
I'm a bit confused, but it may be due to the particular screenshot in your post. I don't see the obvious crop lines with "handles" that were introduced with the recent upgrade, which I think is what drove a lot of this discussion to begin with. Those new crop lines were so obvious that lots of people expected the crop window to come up when they clicked on them. Did you get rid of them in favor of a more minimalist frame, or is it just this image. I'm concerned that if those lines disappear then it won't be obvious to click the image to crop it.
I'll bet there are days when you feel like you just can't win. Been there, done that. But thanks for being so customer focused!
Dale
The way the croplines work, they only appear on images that don't fit the paper size. In my previous examples, those were photos that needed some cropping to fit the paper so they had croplines. In that case, you want to click on them because they look so....clickable.
Okay, we're about to make a couple of changes based on what we read here. Please stop us if we're gonna make heads explode that we didn't think of.
First, cropping:
Added: link in the lower left that takes you back to the gallery to keep shopping.
Love it
Changed: Now you click on the thumb and the cropping tool comes up. The important thing is it comes up if you see the croplines (expected), if there are no croplines (that might surprise some people?), and even if the no-crop option is set.
This is good too
In this picture, why does one photo have different crop options than the other? I admit I have not played with the new cart much yet, but this seems strange.
The thinking is:
1. You probably want consistent behavior. If sometimes you can click to bring up the crop tool and sometimes not, seems like a problem.
Yes
2. Although a given image may have no croplines because it fits the paper perfectly, you still might want to crop.
Yes
3. If you change the crop on an image with no-crop set, we'll change the button to the crop position after you do.
Huh? Does this mean the crop lines will appear as they will look on the actual photo? If so, good!
I am sure this is gonna throw some people who are used to clicking the thumbnail to go back to the gallery, but hopefully they'll see the link and learn.
In this picture, why does one photo have different crop options than the other? I admit I have not played with the new cart much yet, but this seems strange.
one photo requires cropping and the other doesnt.
For photos that don't require cropping, we give you two options: Adjust and Reset. Reset is disabled until you adjust the crop on a photo.
For photos that don't fit the paper size, we give you 3 options. Auto just tries to get the best crop out of the center of the photo to fit the paper. None will scale the photo to fit the paper and you will get white borders on two sides of the photo but none of the photo will be cropped. Adjust lets you manually crop.
I encourage you to play with the cart...everything will (hopefully, if i've done my job) become evident.
For photos that don't require cropping, we give you two options: Adjust and Reset. Reset is disabled until you adjust the crop on a photo.
For photos that don't fit the paper size, we give you 3 options. Auto just tries to get the best crop out of the center of the photo to fit the paper. None will scale the photo to fit the paper and you will get white borders on two sides of the photo but none of the photo will be cropped. Adjust lets you manually crop.
I encourage you to play with the cart...everything will (hopefully, if i've done my job) become evident.
Cart Woes
First - I have to say that the new cart is fabulous. I thought the old one was good, but the new one is on a whole new level.
However, on the old cart I rarely ever had any clients face major problems. However, since the new cart has been created I have received a complaint every few days about problems. The complaints may not hold any water, and may just be due to ignorance of clients. However, I didn't ever really receive any complaints until the new cart arrived.
Complaints have been about the following:
-When entering credit card info the system says fields are blank and need to check the hilighted fields, but there are no hilighted fields. And they couldn't go on to place the order.
-Cart was ready to go but decided they wanted one more image, so when they went back to add it all the files that had been added to the cart disappeared (after spending 1.5 hours adding & cropping images).
-Someone thought an order had been placed when I have no record it ever was.
Again, it may be due to client errors, but seems to be a strange coincidence that it happened right after the cart was changed. Just wondering a few things:
A - Am I the only one?
B - If not, should I be training people on how to place orders? (if so - that seems to be a problem to me)
C - How should I respond to these people? I can only say "well I've never seen that happen" or "I don't know" because I am really unsure about how to trouble shoot this with people.
Sadly - none of the people who had problems have placed any orders since the problems. So, if anyone has any ideas I would like to prevent the trend.
Thanks guys.
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Ugly because they don't display properly:
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They are ugly because of the alignment problem - nothing else meant by it.
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But we feel the best thing is to watch the issue for awhile for a couple of reasons. One is no easy answer has come to mind, at least that we've heard. We know that depending on our back to photos button doesn't work for long carts, especially with ones containing photos from multiple galleries.
A second is we want to understand beginning and intermediate users who represent the majority of cart users, and we haven't had time for that yet.
And third, since it looks like the answer could be a fairly involved change, I have to wonder whether spending the time on solving coupons doesn't offer a better return for everyone involved.
We didn't anticipate this issue because the behavior is the same as the cart has always been, so we're only a few days and a few people into gathering feedback about it.
Allen, isn't the problem that just pressing "Buy This Photo" doesn't tell Smugmug or the cart what you want to buy. You've indicated an interest in that photo, but haven't picked a product (print size, etc...). So, it's hard for Smugmug to put something in the cart without the customer saying what exactly they want in the cart.
To do as you were requesting, they'd have to redesign the whole flow. You'd pick a bunch of photos you were interested in (just pressing a button when the photo is displayed with no other screen popping up), nothing in the cart yet, just a list of photos kept somehow and then you'd have a separate workflow step where you picked an actual product for each photo before you could see anything in the cart.
Allowing a customer to "pick" a list of photos they are interested in and then do things with that list (buy products using that list, send people the list, etc...) would be a cool capability, but it's likely a pretty major feature addition.
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OK, as long as you're keeping an eye on it and prioritizing it with other things, that's fine. I thought you were arguing it wasn't an issue.
I think the new fancier graphics invite one to manipulate that icon directly. My first inclination was to drag the crop around right in that image. After all, it has handles that look like one might be able to directly manipulate them. When that didn't do anything, I then figured I'd click on it to adjust the crop. So, while it's structurally been this way for awhile, I never felt as invited to click on it before and now I'm actually fooled by thinking I can directly manipulate it.
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Or just remove the link to the photo, let the image with crop overlay be just an image, no link to anything. After one or two clicks (or not seeing the 'hand') most folks will figure it out. Having a hotlink just makes things messy, IMHO.
I think we want them to recognize that they can change the crop because a lot of heads get sliced from people not realizing what the lines meant and that they could change the crop.
Maybe the answer is as simple as placing a keep shopping link under the thumb and making the thumb link to the cropping tool. But there are some questions in my mind, like what do you do when people have selected the no-crop option? What about when the croplines don't appear because the photo fits the paper?
Another is, and you're going to say this is a terrible way to think, but I wonder if this is really material or an annoyance? What I mean is, you click and get surprised that it takes you to the gallery so you have to click the back or cart buttons to return. But you've learned how to keep shopping with that annoying click, and when you return the cropping button is pretty obvious. You all found it.
That sounds like it could fall into the annoyance category.
No coupons? No folded cards? No framing options? Those sound material to me and more worthy of precious engineering resources.
I know myself from reviewing hundreds of proof-delay print orders that most of my customers don't set an appropriate crop when the image doesn't fit the print size. So, you're definitely right on in trying to make that more obvious and friendly. It is the single most messed up thing in all the print orders I've seen. Further, your current UI has a visual separation between showing them the currently set crop and the control for acting on the crop. The two are relatively near each other, but visually don't seem to be related to one another. And, the crop options are kind of a mix of state and actions. They say Auto, None and Adjust. Auto and None are a state. Adjust is an action (and kind of also a state). That, I think, makes it a little harder to understand. All of this confusion are further reasons why I think it would be cool to let you adjust the crop by clicking on the new nifty crop display.
As to whether you think it's important enough to spend any more time on, that's clearly up to you and you will have to weigh it against the business benefits of the other things you could do.
One of the reasons I started the thread on UI polish is because, in isolation, no single UI polish issue will ever feel like it's important enough to work on versus any new feature. It is always hard to imagine how you ever lose business because you don't do a polish issue and it's always easy to imagine how you lose business if you don't do a new feature.
But a flock of UI polish issues really give your product a different feel than a well polished one. In the end, it does really impact your business. You end up having to decide what kind of product you want to have. Are you an Apple type product or a Microsoft type product? If you want to have a highly polished one, then you just have to allocate a separate engineering budget in your head for polish issues that isn't regularly traded off versus new features. If you don't, then most polish issues just won't get prioritized high enough to get done (unless the individual engineer just does them on their own out of pride - but that isn't scalable or consistent as your team of developers grows).
This is one of those polish issues. Could we all live with it? Sure. But at the same time, it's one of those UI polish issues that impacts the overall slickness of the experience. You don't have to do them all, but leave too many untouched and you're producing Microsoft products instead of Apple products. You will have to pick the right balance.
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Drop me an email and I can get you access to it. This is something I'd like to put in front of everyday consumers and watch them use before we release the hounds.
Hi all,
Okay, a week ago, if a client chose a print size, they were informed that cropping was required. This was fine, my clients were a bit confused as to how to proceed, but at least they knew cropping was required.
Now with the new smugmug store interface, there is no concrete note that cropping is required to fit their chosen print size.
Please-Please-Please add some kind of notification to the clients that are paying both of our bills that their image requires cropping or will have a white border....
I'm kind of surprised that this isn't a huge red flag to notify the clients about the need to crop or end up with an image that is not full-page.
I
I'm a bit confused though, is this not good?
New:
Old:
So, another thing, just in case the customer doesn't get it right, we very highly recommend our Pros make use of our Proof Delay feature.
Proof Delay allows you to review the order before it's sent to print,
make corrections and changes to the cropping as well as auto versus true
color. Best of all, you have the opportunity to totally replace any
image that is ordered, with your choice of a replacement, still allowing
you to adjust the crop and color setting after replacing it. For more
info on this, please see the links below which would eliminate any
problems in the future:
http://www.smugmug.com/help/proof-retouch-replace
http://wiki.smugmug.net/display/SmugMug/Proof+Delay
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Doesn't this clue them in?
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First, cropping:
Added: link in the lower left that takes you back to the gallery to keep shopping.
Changed: Now you click on the thumb and the cropping tool comes up. The important thing is it comes up if you see the croplines (expected), if there are no croplines (that might surprise some people?), and even if the no-crop option is set.
The thinking is:
1. You probably want consistent behavior. If sometimes you can click to bring up the crop tool and sometimes not, seems like a problem.
2. Although a given image may have no croplines because it fits the paper perfectly, you still might want to crop.
3. If you change the crop on an image with no-crop set, we'll change the button to the crop position after you do.
I am sure this is gonna throw some people who are used to clicking the thumbnail to go back to the gallery, but hopefully they'll see the link and learn.
Good change? Bad? Gotchas?
Our proposal is:
1. Remove the color choice button from the shopping cart.
2. Default all users to auto-color, including pros, going forward , (no changes to current galleries). This is because returns for true color prints is 10:1 over autocolor, even from pros.
3. Enable everyone to force true color on a gallery-by-gallery basis.
4. Do not enable an option to display the auto/true button in the cart.
The big gotcha: We don't want to mess up pros who are used to the default being true and catch them by surprise when the next gallery they create is auto by default. And they have to figure out quick settings, yada yada.
But on the other had, returns from the true color option are high...
So I suppose the best thing is to send communications to all pros in advance with a link to a page to explain what the change is with step-by-step instructions on how to do quick settings.
Or I suppose we could consider a global option (and do it for square thumbs while we're at it), but I can't commit to that without talking to the engineers.
Both changes look good to me. I know I was one who provided feedback on the cropping UI, so thanks for listening.
I also think it will be great to take the color option away from the buyer and give the seller control over it. Not only will you be removing the most confusing option there is in the cart, but you will be giving people who know what they are doing control over the option. I'm cool with a default of auto. I'm already used to setting this in the gallery options when I create the gallery. Like the shape of thumbs, it would be nice to be able to set a global default that all new galleries inherit by default, but I can live with setting it on each gallery when I create it.
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I agree with John - and I was one of those early 'voices' also - this sounds like the best solution and will decrease the 'true' returns in the long run too... and your idea to alert the pros is right on the money!!
Thanks for responding to our feedback
rich56k
Member: ASMP; EP; NPPA; CPS
The click photo to crop is good...
In my case I only offer 2x3 aspect ratio print sizes
which eliminates any need to crop to fit (although they can crop for a 'larger/closer' image if they desire) no problem here.
What isn't clear is your "#3" above - do you mean if I set "no crop" and they ( the customer) attempt to crop - can they? and what will the result be??
rich56k
Member: ASMP; EP; NPPA; CPS
I'll bet there are days when you feel like you just can't win. Been there, done that. But thanks for being so customer focused!
Dale
Good change
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one photo requires cropping and the other doesnt.
For photos that don't require cropping, we give you two options: Adjust and Reset. Reset is disabled until you adjust the crop on a photo.
For photos that don't fit the paper size, we give you 3 options. Auto just tries to get the best crop out of the center of the photo to fit the paper. None will scale the photo to fit the paper and you will get white borders on two sides of the photo but none of the photo will be cropped. Adjust lets you manually crop.
I encourage you to play with the cart...everything will (hopefully, if i've done my job) become evident.
Does it default to "none" or "auto"?
I know, I know... go play with it... I will...
Jason Scott Photography | Blog | FB | Twitter | Google+ | Tumblr | Instagram | YouTube
First - I have to say that the new cart is fabulous. I thought the old one was good, but the new one is on a whole new level.
However, on the old cart I rarely ever had any clients face major problems. However, since the new cart has been created I have received a complaint every few days about problems. The complaints may not hold any water, and may just be due to ignorance of clients. However, I didn't ever really receive any complaints until the new cart arrived.
Complaints have been about the following:
-When entering credit card info the system says fields are blank and need to check the hilighted fields, but there are no hilighted fields. And they couldn't go on to place the order.
-Cart was ready to go but decided they wanted one more image, so when they went back to add it all the files that had been added to the cart disappeared (after spending 1.5 hours adding & cropping images).
-Someone thought an order had been placed when I have no record it ever was.
Again, it may be due to client errors, but seems to be a strange coincidence that it happened right after the cart was changed. Just wondering a few things:
A - Am I the only one?
B - If not, should I be training people on how to place orders? (if so - that seems to be a problem to me)
C - How should I respond to these people? I can only say "well I've never seen that happen" or "I don't know" because I am really unsure about how to trouble shoot this with people.
Sadly - none of the people who had problems have placed any orders since the problems. So, if anyone has any ideas I would like to prevent the trend.
Thanks guys.
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