Don't forget, your first DSLR system isn't necessarily your only system. Any of the entry level DSLRs will let you dip your toe in the water and take great pictures (even with the kit lenses in many cases). It's not really until you've done time with your first DSLR that you'll start to work out what works for you longer term. That's when they game gets costly .
Good point. As stated before, whatever I end up getting will likely become downgraded to back up duty in favor of what I upgrade to, provided that becomes necessary.
Please do not copy, edit, rehost or repost my images without permission.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Very interesting about the Sony. In the past I only had one sony dig cam and that was 11 yrs ago. When I found out that Sony took over the Minolta technology I realized there were some things to consider. For me it was a smart choice to give it a try because all of my Minolta Maxxum lenses and such work with the Sony alpha and they do so very well as long as they are not 3rd party items.
I think you could also do very well with some consumer level Canon gear.
In that respect it makes sense to stick with something (or give it a try at least) for the compatibility. Unfortunately, that's not the case in my situation. I'd love to give Sony another chance, but for the money there's already proven products available in the same pricing bracket.
I keep seeing these sayings around Dgrin and elsewhere, that it's not the camera, but the photographer & the camera is a tool - the photographer needs the skill to use it (something about Indians & arrows), etc. Those are philosophies that I'm not overlooking. I think I can be just as effective at this stage with consumer grade equipment than with pro-sumer or even pro.
Please do not copy, edit, rehost or repost my images without permission.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
I most certainly agree with you. Your results can be the same regardless of what camera system you choose. I wouldn't recommend anything that I haven't fully tested myself.
Is there any logical reason(s) why Olympus has cameras with all the features of higher priced competing units, but at a fraction of the cost? How is the lens/accessory support?
When most people go looking for their first DSLR they ask for either Nikon or Canon, so brands like Olympus and Pentax offer more features at the same price level as their way of competing.
As for Olympus, they're a bunch of advantages. With the E520 it has in body stabilization so your lenses are even lighter (the Olympus 40-150mm telephoto kit lens (80-300mm equivalent) is smaller and lighter than the Nikon standard kit zoom 18-55mm VR (27-82.5mm equivalent))
The dust reduction on Olympus cameras is reported to be the best, which takes away a huge pain in maintenance
This next one is a positive and a negative, the Olympus lenses that are out there basically all are really high quality, even the "standard grade" lenses provide great results. So when choosing lenses it's really simple, and they are well priced, the issue is that the system doesn't have a huge amount of lenses for it, but if you need something like a wide-angle zoom for photojournalism, the 11 to 22 (22-44mm equivalent) is a great choice and starts out at F2 .8,
My suggestion would be picking up a 14 to 54 F2.8 to 3.5 (28-108mm) which is a very sharp lens, fast, relatively wide, and most importantly it's cheap at $370 as a first lens to move into.
With Olympus cameras you can also use many other systems lenses, unlike say a Nikon where none of the cameras until you get into the D300 and up will meter with a non-AF Nikon lens, if you put a lens on an Olympus it will meter fine. Not only that there are many adapters on eBay for all sorts of lenses. Personally I use many Nikon lenses with my E420
Now for image quality, the 520 has the same sensor as my camera, which at low ISO provides very similar quality to their flagship model the E3, while not sure about enlargements to the size you mentioned, I've made 16 x 20 prints no problem.
The big advantage with the Olympus system is in its JPEG engine, their cameras along with Fuji's produce some of the best out of camera JPEG's so if you don't want to shoot raw it's a good option, and if you shoot RAW+JPEG then sometimes the JPEG is more than enough. Tying into this is the color reproduction of the sensor which is amazing, and another help to keep you away from lots of postprocessing.
The issue with Olympus is high ISO noise, and basically your one stop behind the Canon and Nikon cameras, but compared to the crop cameras its not a huge difference (just when compared to full frame models like the 5d mkII & D700 which are better than all of the crop sensors)
And another thing to think about is what you want to do as a path for advancement. If you're thinking about Canon or Nikon and sticking with the system because you want to go onto a high level cameras, those are quickly becoming the full frame models, which won't work properly with many lenses for the lower cameras (the shoot with reduced resolution) and if you wanted lenses that would work from crop to full frame they wont be that wide for the crop nikon and canon models.
When most people go looking for their first DSLR they ask for either Nikon or Canon, so brands like Olympus and Pentax offer more features at the same price level as their way of competing.
As for Olympus, they're a bunch of advantages. With the E520 it has in body stabilization so your lenses are even lighter (the Olympus 40-150mm telephoto kit lens (80-300mm equivalent) is smaller and lighter than the Nikon standard kit zoom 18-55mm VR (27-82.5mm equivalent))
The dust reduction on Olympus cameras is reported to be the best, which takes away a huge pain in maintenance
This next one is a positive and a negative, the Olympus lenses that are out there basically all are really high quality, even the "standard grade" lenses provide great results. So when choosing lenses it's really simple, and they are well priced, the issue is that the system doesn't have a huge amount of lenses for it, but if you need something like a wide-angle zoom for photojournalism, the 11 to 22 (22-44mm equivalent) is a great choice and starts out at F2 .8,
My suggestion would be picking up a 14 to 54 F2.8 to 3.5 (28-108mm) which is a very sharp lens, fast, relatively wide, and most importantly it's cheap at $370 as a first lens to move into.
With Olympus cameras you can also use many other systems lenses, unlike say a Nikon where none of the cameras until you get into the D300 and up will meter with a non-AF Nikon lens, if you put a lens on an Olympus it will meter fine. Not only that there are many adapters on eBay for all sorts of lenses. Personally I use many Nikon lenses with my E420
Now for image quality, the 520 has the same sensor as my camera, which at low ISO provides very similar quality to their flagship model the E3, while not sure about enlargements to the size you mentioned, I've made 16 x 20 prints no problem.
The big advantage with the Olympus system is in its JPEG engine, their cameras along with Fuji's produce some of the best out of camera JPEG's so if you don't want to shoot raw it's a good option, and if you shoot RAW+JPEG then sometimes the JPEG is more than enough. Tying into this is the color reproduction of the sensor which is amazing, and another help to keep you away from lots of postprocessing.
The issue with Olympus is high ISO noise, and basically your one stop behind the Canon and Nikon cameras, but compared to the crop cameras its not a huge difference (just when compared to full frame models like the 5d mkII & D700 which are better than all of the crop sensors)
And another thing to think about is what you want to do as a path for advancement. If you're thinking about Canon or Nikon and sticking with the system because you want to go onto a high level cameras, those are quickly becoming the full frame models, which won't work properly with many lenses for the lower cameras (the shoot with reduced resolution) and if you wanted lenses that would work from crop to full frame they wont be that wide for the crop nikon and canon models.
Any other questions feel free to ask
Thanks N&V, I'll look into the Olympus line a little more.
Please do not copy, edit, rehost or repost my images without permission.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Update
So I bought a new Nikon D60, with the 18-55 VR. I must have been mistaken in my earlier post; the D60 and the D40 are the same size, although the D60 still feels a little heavier. I guess I picked up a D90 thinking it was the D60.
Anyway, after extensive research, I think this platform will work well for my needs and get me started. I'm planning on adding a tripod, battery grip, a few extra batteries and a hand strap to the arsenal. I'm stoked that the flash off my old 35mm works with the D60, but I'll be looking into a speedlight later down the line.
I've read throught the manual, and played with the camera a bit. I still need to figure out how to do some things in manual mode (after all, that's why we buy dSLR's over P&S's, right?). I'm really liking it so far, but it keeps giving me dirty looks - I guess I need to start taking pictures...
Please do not copy, edit, rehost or repost my images without permission.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Thanks for the info and link, ziggy. I hadn't considered the variance in voltage. My flash isn't listed on the site you linked, and I can't find any voltage info listed in the documentation for the flash. I guess I'll not use it until I know for sure.
Please do not copy, edit, rehost or repost my images without permission.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Thanks for the info and link, ziggy. I hadn't considered the variance in voltage. My flash isn't listed on the site you linked, and I can't find any voltage info listed in the documentation for the flash. I guess I'll not use it until I know for sure.
purchase a safe sync by Wein......they run between $30 / 50.....will allow you to use your flash in manual mode ..... and will save your camera.
Seeing posts like this on multiple sites always yeilds the same results.
Everyone has chapagne dreams on a beer budget.
Firstly whether or not you do this full time, part time, hobbyist etc has no bearing on it. IQ that a body and lens produces does not care how ofen you do it. While this may be your justification for budget limiting, images do not care what your budget is.
If you are looking into DSLR I would stick with the forerunners, Canon and Nikon. There is a reason they are where they are in the market. You can start off small and work your way up. Investment in a lens is usually a good one. good glass will retain its value and you can move up by selling off what you have to the next in line beginner.
I have to agree with other posters that a $600 budget is a very tight one and getting what you stated you expected for that price is a very slim proposition. Best advice I can offer is to look around on buy and sell boards. There are many to be found, here, FM, POTN, photo.net among others. I would avoid fleabay like the plague. This way you can see what is selling for what price and research each piece of equipment to see if it will suit your needs. You may get lucky and find someone selling off quickly for lower prices. You could start off with something like a Canon Xti and a 28-135 IS lens that would most likely be a little over your budget but not by much and move up from there. While it is true that having the "eye" is extremly important having the "right stuff" is equally important. I started off with an XT and a kit lens and no matter what I did I just could not get the results I wanted. Thought I just was not getting something right on my part. Then I borrowed a 70-200 2.8L IS and the difference was astounding and immidiate, enough so that I bought one the next day. This was definitely a much better position but when comparing my images to others I was still lacking in IQ. UP to a 40D I went. Again the difference was instantly noticed but my images while shooting sports were less than what I wanted. Out of 500 shots I might have 20 keepers, mostly due to OOF or bad exposures. Up to a MKIIN I went. I went from culling by OOF and bad exposure to culling by whether or not I liked the composition.
Welcome to Dgrin, Justin. While I appreciate your response, this wasn't a question, nor an issue of "champagne dreams on a beer budget". It was just a general inquiry for input to establish a starting point. Since I'm not looking to do any of this as a career, at least not right now, the budget was a concern and a deciding factor. If I end up doing this on a more full-time basis, where I will be anticipating a significant return on my investment, then I will look at upgrading.
As I stated earlier, I went with the Nikon D60. The features and price were consistent with what I was looking for and what I want to do with it. As the budget allows, I will look into investing into a wider range of lenses.
Please do not copy, edit, rehost or repost my images without permission.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
It all depends.
You can occasionally snap some beautiful pictures with $200 P&S and even get some decent 8x10 prints out of those. The most expensive pro level gear will not replace a great eye, an ability to look and see and/or the patience/attitude needed to get a good light, neat pose, awesome expression, etc.
Having said all that, I must also admit that good gear helps. It broadens your capabilities of taking a particular picture how you want it, where you want it and how you want it. Just like you can be an excellent driver, but you'd have a hard time competing with the Prius on the Daytona track.
The trick is to understand what you're going into and where exactly you wanna go. Pretty much any car will get you from point A to point B. The question is - how fast it can do that, and how many oil changes or tranny work it would require.
I think I own about $25K worth of photo related goodies, and only $2,500 of those are the camera bodies.
Is it all necessary? It depends. But does it help? Hell, yeah!
Comments
Good point. As stated before, whatever I end up getting will likely become downgraded to back up duty in favor of what I upgrade to, provided that becomes necessary.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
In that respect it makes sense to stick with something (or give it a try at least) for the compatibility. Unfortunately, that's not the case in my situation. I'd love to give Sony another chance, but for the money there's already proven products available in the same pricing bracket.
I keep seeing these sayings around Dgrin and elsewhere, that it's not the camera, but the photographer & the camera is a tool - the photographer needs the skill to use it (something about Indians & arrows), etc. Those are philosophies that I'm not overlooking. I think I can be just as effective at this stage with consumer grade equipment than with pro-sumer or even pro.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Atlanta, GA USA
my smugmug
Atlanta Modern Wedding Photographer
SheriJohnsonPhotography.com
When most people go looking for their first DSLR they ask for either Nikon or Canon, so brands like Olympus and Pentax offer more features at the same price level as their way of competing.
As for Olympus, they're a bunch of advantages. With the E520 it has in body stabilization so your lenses are even lighter (the Olympus 40-150mm telephoto kit lens (80-300mm equivalent) is smaller and lighter than the Nikon standard kit zoom 18-55mm VR (27-82.5mm equivalent))
The dust reduction on Olympus cameras is reported to be the best, which takes away a huge pain in maintenance
This next one is a positive and a negative, the Olympus lenses that are out there basically all are really high quality, even the "standard grade" lenses provide great results. So when choosing lenses it's really simple, and they are well priced, the issue is that the system doesn't have a huge amount of lenses for it, but if you need something like a wide-angle zoom for photojournalism, the 11 to 22 (22-44mm equivalent) is a great choice and starts out at F2 .8,
My suggestion would be picking up a 14 to 54 F2.8 to 3.5 (28-108mm) which is a very sharp lens, fast, relatively wide, and most importantly it's cheap at $370 as a first lens to move into.
With Olympus cameras you can also use many other systems lenses, unlike say a Nikon where none of the cameras until you get into the D300 and up will meter with a non-AF Nikon lens, if you put a lens on an Olympus it will meter fine. Not only that there are many adapters on eBay for all sorts of lenses. Personally I use many Nikon lenses with my E420
Now for image quality, the 520 has the same sensor as my camera, which at low ISO provides very similar quality to their flagship model the E3, while not sure about enlargements to the size you mentioned, I've made 16 x 20 prints no problem.
The big advantage with the Olympus system is in its JPEG engine, their cameras along with Fuji's produce some of the best out of camera JPEG's so if you don't want to shoot raw it's a good option, and if you shoot RAW+JPEG then sometimes the JPEG is more than enough. Tying into this is the color reproduction of the sensor which is amazing, and another help to keep you away from lots of postprocessing.
The issue with Olympus is high ISO noise, and basically your one stop behind the Canon and Nikon cameras, but compared to the crop cameras its not a huge difference (just when compared to full frame models like the 5d mkII & D700 which are better than all of the crop sensors)
And another thing to think about is what you want to do as a path for advancement. If you're thinking about Canon or Nikon and sticking with the system because you want to go onto a high level cameras, those are quickly becoming the full frame models, which won't work properly with many lenses for the lower cameras (the shoot with reduced resolution) and if you wanted lenses that would work from crop to full frame they wont be that wide for the crop nikon and canon models.
Any other questions feel free to ask
Thanks N&V, I'll look into the Olympus line a little more.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Go for a really good compact that can shoot RAW and brush up your photoshop skills.
600$ will not buy you a decent DSLR lens, never mind the body.
So I bought a new Nikon D60, with the 18-55 VR. I must have been mistaken in my earlier post; the D60 and the D40 are the same size, although the D60 still feels a little heavier. I guess I picked up a D90 thinking it was the D60.
Anyway, after extensive research, I think this platform will work well for my needs and get me started. I'm planning on adding a tripod, battery grip, a few extra batteries and a hand strap to the arsenal. I'm stoked that the flash off my old 35mm works with the D60, but I'll be looking into a speedlight later down the line.
I've read throught the manual, and played with the camera a bit. I still need to figure out how to do some things in manual mode (after all, that's why we buy dSLR's over P&S's, right?). I'm really liking it so far, but it keeps giving me dirty looks - I guess I need to start taking pictures...
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Be careful about that as some older flash units have a very high trigger voltage that can damage a modern dSLR:
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
purchase a safe sync by Wein......they run between $30 / 50.....will allow you to use your flash in manual mode ..... and will save your camera.
BTW...what flash are we talking about???
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Everyone has chapagne dreams on a beer budget.
Firstly whether or not you do this full time, part time, hobbyist etc has no bearing on it. IQ that a body and lens produces does not care how ofen you do it. While this may be your justification for budget limiting, images do not care what your budget is.
If you are looking into DSLR I would stick with the forerunners, Canon and Nikon. There is a reason they are where they are in the market. You can start off small and work your way up. Investment in a lens is usually a good one. good glass will retain its value and you can move up by selling off what you have to the next in line beginner.
I have to agree with other posters that a $600 budget is a very tight one and getting what you stated you expected for that price is a very slim proposition. Best advice I can offer is to look around on buy and sell boards. There are many to be found, here, FM, POTN, photo.net among others. I would avoid fleabay like the plague. This way you can see what is selling for what price and research each piece of equipment to see if it will suit your needs. You may get lucky and find someone selling off quickly for lower prices. You could start off with something like a Canon Xti and a 28-135 IS lens that would most likely be a little over your budget but not by much and move up from there. While it is true that having the "eye" is extremly important having the "right stuff" is equally important. I started off with an XT and a kit lens and no matter what I did I just could not get the results I wanted. Thought I just was not getting something right on my part. Then I borrowed a 70-200 2.8L IS and the difference was astounding and immidiate, enough so that I bought one the next day. This was definitely a much better position but when comparing my images to others I was still lacking in IQ. UP to a 40D I went. Again the difference was instantly noticed but my images while shooting sports were less than what I wanted. Out of 500 shots I might have 20 keepers, mostly due to OOF or bad exposures. Up to a MKIIN I went. I went from culling by OOF and bad exposure to culling by whether or not I liked the composition.
As I stated earlier, I went with the Nikon D60. The features and price were consistent with what I was looking for and what I want to do with it. As the budget allows, I will look into investing into a wider range of lenses.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
You can occasionally snap some beautiful pictures with $200 P&S and even get some decent 8x10 prints out of those. The most expensive pro level gear will not replace a great eye, an ability to look and see and/or the patience/attitude needed to get a good light, neat pose, awesome expression, etc.
Having said all that, I must also admit that good gear helps. It broadens your capabilities of taking a particular picture how you want it, where you want it and how you want it. Just like you can be an excellent driver, but you'd have a hard time competing with the Prius on the Daytona track.
The trick is to understand what you're going into and where exactly you wanna go. Pretty much any car will get you from point A to point B. The question is - how fast it can do that, and how many oil changes or tranny work it would require.
I think I own about $25K worth of photo related goodies, and only $2,500 of those are the camera bodies.
Is it all necessary? It depends. But does it help? Hell, yeah!