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80weeks
Registered Users Posts: 97 Big grins
My husband and I have been travelling for the past 18 months and during this time I've (oh alright him too) got really interested in photography. So we are arriving home shortly with 15,000 odd photos just waiting to be edited and we need a computer to do it on. In an extra twist, I'm a mac person whilst he's a PC person although we are both comfortable on either system. So what would you get?
The top two contenders
2.66GHz intel core 2 duo imac 24", 4GB RAM, 1TB harddrive
or
Dell computer 2.66GHz i7 processor, 4GB RAM, 1TB harddrive with a 24" IPS screen
These are both the same cost in Australia (within $20 in fact), so does one have any advantage over the other or do we just have to box it out? :duel
Happy to consider other options or if there is anything important we need to consider in terms of photo editing.
The top two contenders
2.66GHz intel core 2 duo imac 24", 4GB RAM, 1TB harddrive
or
Dell computer 2.66GHz i7 processor, 4GB RAM, 1TB harddrive with a 24" IPS screen
These are both the same cost in Australia (within $20 in fact), so does one have any advantage over the other or do we just have to box it out? :duel
Happy to consider other options or if there is anything important we need to consider in terms of photo editing.
0
Comments
IF you can spare the extra $$:
Get the imac (although you'll have to see if there are opinions on that display vs. a nicer IPS panel), and then put Windows 7 on there with the Mac OS.
Then, format the HD into 3 partitions, Windows system, Mac system, and data, like pictures, documents, etc. That way, pics are accessible from both Windows and Mac.
I say this because I'm "comfortable" on Mac, but I much prefer the Windows OS.
So again, this relies on you having the extra $$ for a copy of Windows, the quality of the iMac screen, and your comfort level with the solution I suggested above. I'm a geek, so it seems simple to me, but I understand not everyone knows or wants to know that much about computers.
I'm subscribing to this, so I'll be around if you have more questions!
Sigma 18-50 f/2.8, 70-200 f/2.8
Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6, 50mm f/1.8
Some people get along great with Windows. I simply don't. Might be biased, but honestly I haven't had an issue thus far.
The Mac will serve you both better because it can run both operating systems and present them to you in a very usable way.
The iMac 24-in is a lovely computer; the only concern with any iMac is that your internal drive storage is limited to one hard drive. If you shoot a lot of RAW images, sooner or later you will fill the drive. Now you can easily attach an external firewire drive (USB2 is better for backup purposes) to hold additional images, but it's one more thing. So, my advice is to procure the largest internal drive you can--upgrading the drive later incurs expensive service fees as it is not done by users generally.
To run Windows you should get either Parallels or VMWare Fusion. I prefer the former, but the latter is a good tool. Lightroom is an outstanding cataloging and image processing and printing software that saves the same data files for both OSes.
Take some time to learn about all these options and your computer purchase will be more satisfying for both of you.
M
OK I don't hate you......I am just plain jealous.
I would ask how serious do you think you will get? Most computers will handle small image files, and 4 gig of RAM should be good, but if your going to get serious, I would look at the expandability of any system purchased. Can you add more RAM, hard drives, etc?
I would get the best monitor I could afford for image processing, and calibrate it.
I would recommend more that one hard drive and I would absolutely back up all your photos. I would think an 18 month trip around the world would be a once in a life time event. You don't want to loose the photos of that!
The first thing would do is back them up on two different hard drives, and store them in separate locations. These are not working hard drives, just back up.
I would highly recommend getting light room , spend some time reading about how Light room works and make sure you have a plan on how to import, key word etc your images. If you create a good system for naming, key wording, meta data etc, you will be able to store and locate your images easily. So spend time to to learn and think through exactly how your going to import your images. I am glad I am not facing the task of importing 15, 000 images!
Sam
I am also a big supporter of lightroom.
Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
~ Gear Pictures
[shameless plug]
Besides, on a PC you will be able to use Star*Explorer to upload all your 15,000 images in one click :-)
[/shameless plug]
The new Dell U2410f is out in Europe and the USA. As it came out in Japan first you might find it at Dell AUS.
Was available with coupon for $479 USD.
Dell U2410f
.... 24 inch H-IPS panel (maybe the same as the panel in the HP LP2475w)
.... 12bit internal processing (not sure as yet if this is a 12bit internal LUT)
.... over a billion colours (vs 16.7 million typical)
.... 100% sRGB and 96% AdoberRGB colour space
Info:
http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=bsd&cs=ukbsdt1&sku=294438
Just a couple of points...
-To get the most out of this monitor it should be calibrated periodically with something like the SPyder3 Elite or Xrite i1 D2 hardware calibrator systems. You will need an ICC colour profile for use in dealing with the next point. Dell may have their own calibration software if does indeed have an internal 12bit LUT as you'll need software to access & write the calibration values to the LUT.
-It is a wide gamut monitor and if you've not dealt with wide gamut before it is sure to surprise you with unacceptably vivid colours if you're viewing images on it using non-colour managed applications.
This Dell has peaked my curiousity. HP has been offering their LP2480ZX which is IPS and also offering over a billion colours but they've been asking $2000 USD for it of late (reduced from its' original price). The HP does have a few high end features including what they call 30 bit processing.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-3884471-3648397.html
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I really like the idea of splitting the HD into 3 partitions. That would solve a lot of problems. I'd thought of two (one for windows and one for Mac OS, but didn't realise you could have the data accessible to both platforms). Don't know how to do this at the moment, but will work it out once we have a computer!
The thought of having external drives for extra storage doesn't worry me too much... particularly as with the imac we will be towerless.
We're planning on getting lightroom so will spend some time learning it before we start importing. We will also back everything up... a few times. We've been sending DVDs home to my father so he has most of them backed up and will have them all in a week once we're home. We will have our own backup as well, so there will be three copies in total. I was never particularly paranoid about backup pre this trip, but the added risk of theft has led us to really care about backup without having ever had a disaster.
Unfortunately the Macbook Pro 13" with the cinema screen is an extra $1000 (Aus)... so out of our budget at the moment.
I think we're going to have to go and have a look at the imac and the dell screen in person to really know what we think. I really want to make sure we have a decent screen, but that comes from the fact that we are travelling with a 7 year old PowerBook G4 and the screen is awful! We've tried editing a couple of photos but they look completely different from every angle, so it's an impossible task. Occasionally we've had the opportunity to see our photos on a really good screen (showing friends our smugmug site) and it's amazing how different they look. Mostly, it's wow! With the occasional d'oh that's blurry looked clear on the 12". So, although the imac monitor is not as good as the dell monitor we are looking at... it'll still be good for photo editing, yes? Any new computer will probably feel incredibly fast after using the laptop for so long, as well.
http://80weeks.blogspot.com
Is this different to the U2410 24" IPS? That's the monitor we were looking at. There's no U2410f listed on their australian website. Unfortunately being in Australia the U2410 is priced at $899 but don't get me started on the fact that although the exchange rate is 80c plus to the dollar, we pay double what USA does. It's the same with all electronics, computer, cameras, camping equipment etc etc.
http://80weeks.blogspot.com
M
Same monitor. I'll bet when you get the Aussie U2410 and check out the documentation on the monitor itself, you'll see an "f".
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If history is anything to go by I will most likely end up with a PC system - so far they always gave much more bang for the buck. And, today, it looks like Dell has some good options for displaying photos which is my most important criterion for the next computer.
Going Dell over a Mac is kind of like choosing to take a space shuttle ride, one goes faster and costs less, but was built by the low bid contractor (Dell) or the one that's not quite as fast, costs more but will make it through reentry and landing (the important part).
Both will get you a view of earth from space, only one will reliably get you back home. With Dell you get cheaper parts, cheaper assembly and crappy service and Windows to me is a HUGE drawback.
My iMac is great, everything "I" do I can do easier, faster and with less hassle than I could on Windows and that's after using Windows since 3.1 and my Mac since May 09.
No comparison is usability, especially if you're starting from scratch.
Gene
That's Great!! But it's not very helpful, nor is it even relevant since you didn't bother to describe what it is that "you" do with your iMac that was so much of a hassle on Windows.
Do they ship that iMac smugness in the box, or is it something that has to be downloaded from the iTunes store after initial setup?
Apologies to the OP for following up one snarky post with another.
In an effort to redeem myself - I think I would recommend going with the Windows machine if there is a budget AND there are no Mac-only programs that you must use. Windows 7 is a vast improvement over Vista in usability and has made my 5 year old Media Center PC a pleasure to use again. Lightroom runs fine on it and the new OS actually has a nice feel to it. To steal a iFan phrase - it feels much snappier.
While the iMac has an elegant design, it seems to be a bit unfriendly for future hardware upgrades, which may limit you a year or two down the road. I personally like being able to open up a case and replace components myself (may not be a concern of yours) and I like to use more than one internal hard drive in my desktop system. Once you start adding external drives and accessories to the ports on an iMac, it starts to lose much of it's elegance and simple/uncluttered appearance. Remember that any accessories you add are going to plug into what's sitting on the desktop, while a traditional desktop computer and most of it's external accessories can be placed beneath a desk or even in an enclosed desk.
Another thing to consider is if you have any problems with the monitor on the iMac you are left without the whole computer (and your data) while the monitor is being serviced. That may be uncommon but it's one reason I shy away from all-in-one devices. Plus, if you later decide to upgrade to a larger monitor (for movies or tv or whatever) then you still have the iMac monitor to deal with.
I was tempted with the idea of getting a Mac Pro and then adding Windows 7 as a second operating system, but the cost involved there is pretty substantial and I'm still not convinced that the hardware on the Mac Pro would be worth the initial cost difference.
Just my 2 cents. I've nothing against Macs, I just prefer the flexibility that a traditional PC platform gives me and I've not yet found an Apple-only software program that I liked, much less had to have.
Homepage - James Hill Photography
Does anyone know if i-mage supports adobe rgb? Not sure if this is a long term need for me but I would like to play with it a bit before deciding.
I've found graphs showing it's color space is much smaller than the HP LP2480zx but no % figures for the two key parameters.
Any of you Mac's have it?
I'm not so sure I'd be a fan of its' glossy front panel.
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Nope.
I was not being smug or "snarky". But you are being both. I expressed an opinion based on 15 years of Windows use and less than 6 months of OS X use. I don't need to say what I find easier, better, faster with OS X all I need to say and all the OP (not you- BTW why are you replying to me? Oh, yeah because you're just so darn "snarky" ) needs to read is my opinion on the matter.
FAIL-
Windows machines "can" be OK but the OP is talking about a Dell. Dell is a crap shoot. Good one bad one, failure rate, tech support all worse than Apple. Plus if for some strange reason a Mac owner wanted to run Windows, it's an option.
The vast majority of ANY PC users NEVER upgrade their computer. Upgrading hardware as a reason to go with Windows if virtually a moot point. Shouldn't even come into consideration.
As for the cluttered look, you can just as easily put the "plugged" in accessories beneath a desk or an enclosed desk with the iMac. Since getting rid of my XPS Box I have much more space available and less clutter, even with a couple of external drives.
And how is this different than laptop users? So you don't or won't consider a laptop because of it's all in one design?
As far as "having to deal with" the iMac monitor- it makes using a dual monitor setup super easy and convenient. It's a plus.
Well, again the MacPro is actually less expensive than any similar Windows box. We're talking dual quadcores etc... Price one from Dell or HP. It'll cost a good $1000 more. Sure you can get a quadcore i7 Windows box for dirt cheap- and there's reason why it's dirt cheap.
You prefer Windows as did I until I tried a Dell (nearly identical to the one the OP is looking at). Came with Vista. Nothing but a big hassle to do anything on it compared to XP. Plus Vista nor Dell would support my older DELL monitor in portrait mode as a 2nd display. OS X does. Vista updates hosed my ATI drivers requiring a reinstall. Plus that particular Dell and the similar one that the OP is looking at sounds like a Hoover. High end CPU with low end case= poor airflow and lots of noise from the cheapo OEM CPU cooler and crappy case fans that need to run a full speed nearly all the time.
You generally get what you pay for. The Dell is cheap so you get.............
Gene
I will let you know, although it may be a few weeks. We will be homeless when we first get back to Sydney and it doesn't make any sense to buy a computer before we have our home back. Currently I think we'll end up with the imac (mainly for reliability and the fact the PC advantages don't carry as much weight as they did back in our student days). I will update this thread once we've actually made a purchase!
P.S. I would love to get a Mac Pro but at a starting price of $6500 in Aus with a monitor, that's just not even close to feasible.
http://80weeks.blogspot.com
I am confident about my photos on my pc. Sure we would all enjoy it more if I just lug a decent "laptop" along. Plus my photo hobby would be easier as I could do it anywhere.
My current portable - a Portege - is lousy for this, seeing the screen is designed so that you can only view it if you sit directly in front, and it is small. So I am looking currently at the Mac Pro line which looks perfect for my needs. There is an alternative from Dell and is a little cheaper (not much when you add everything in). The nice thing about the Apple is that it seems to have been built expressly for my needs, just the way the Portege is brilliant for normal business travel.
And - to kino62 - when you talk about Dell it is maybe necessary to discriminate more between the lines they offer. They offer such a broad range of options. My family still runs a Dell Latitude bought nine years ago, used intensively, and which still works. Dell service got involved once, out of warranty, and were superb. Other companies I work with have a "buy Dell" policy for years and I never heard much if any criticism about cost of ownership or service. Not to say there is never a problem, but then there are sometimes problems with Apple I hear - just surprised that you have such a strong anti-Dell thing.
Your views on Vista are extreme. Someone asked what you use it for and that is relevant. I travel a lot and love the way Vista connects easily to different networks - a world of improvement over XP. And I never had a problem so far connecting to anything else. Pretty sure Windows 7 will be even better - and Dell offer a free upgrade option at the moment so another vote for Dell.
Confusing isn't it .....
We all have opinions on which brand of computer is best and which will hold out the longest. Unfortunately this constitutes a very small sample size that is only meaningful in a psychological way, for what that's worth.
There is sadly very little data collected and associated analysis that would point the way towards some convincing conclusions.
The research I can easily access is from Consumer's Reports. They surveyed about 8500 laptop and desktop owners during the past year about their satisfaction with technical support from brands. This includes having the problem solved, and promptness of service.
Now I'm not going to comment about Consumer Report's ability to qualitatively judge a technical product--that unrelated. But user data is valuable.
Since all computers seem to not need physical repairs much anymore (CR stopped their frequency of repair reporting), the issue of technical report is important.
In both categories (desktop and laptop) Apple was the top brand with the highest rating of satisfaction across criteria. Second place was a universe away with average ratings. Dell finished second in desktops and third in laptops, but again the delta between first and second was huge and everything thereafter about the same.
One conclusion I can draw is that owners of Macs are more satisfied and can overcome technical problems more completely and have a machine that works.
That would matter to me.
M
Driving it feels very smooth and effortless. I set an internal RAID in about 60 Seconds. Downloads and installations are flawless. The hardware and build quality are very good. Yes I think you do pay a premium for a Mac, (the premium may or may not be as much as you think), but they really do deliver a high quality product with a lot of well thought out niceties. While it may not be a for everyone, I think it's a good choice for photographers, and i don't think you can go wrong here.
Next week I am taking the Apple haughtiness and snootiness class.
Sam
Haha, but that came in the box sir, packaged with the Mac Pro!
Looking forward to hearing what the OP decides. I have determined that I will not be buying another computer until I can afford one of the following:
17in MacBook Pro
Top of the line Mac Pro
So, I'm not buying another computer for about...20 years! But, at least i know when i get it, it'll last forever and it'll be a Nice machine. Not saying dell machines aren't but I love the aluminum construction of the macbook pros and the mac pros! makes a huge difference on the macbook pros where i carry my laptop EVERYWHERE! lots of unintentional abuse, sadly! :cry
~Nick
Sigma 18-50 f/2.8, 70-200 f/2.8
Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6, 50mm f/1.8
Installation was truly a delight, nothing much to do except remember to spell my proper name correctly. I had to reset my Linksys router because I had forgotten the password - silly me. I put aside the tricky stuff such as connecting to my vintage ms network, printers, etc until the next day. When I woke up I saw that the Mac had somehow connected itself overnight and I could print, download files, and see everything without touching a key. I was prepared for a few hours hard slog and found myself instead repeating the mantra that "it just works".
I am becoming a real "fan-boy". There have been a few hiccups, but now I have found the delete keys and got DPP running under SL with help from the Apple support blog, I am feeling in great shape. No worries about installing windows. I did buy Office 08 but I am also keeping my Vista laptop because it weighs in around a kilo and fits snugly in my Ryanair travel bag. I'll be looking forward to getting back from my trip to Boston next week because the Pro Book will be waiting. Sweet.
Last word to the OP. Dell has really dumped the price on some great portables where I live. Personally no regrets so far on splashing the extra cash on the Mac, but if cash is really tight I suggest you check out what Dell is offering in Australia.
No updates yet, so I think I'm going to uninstall it, if I can.
But it's still far more stable than the Vista machine I gave to the kids.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you here, so please do set me straight.
Have you moved up to 10.6.1? Works better with printers. One of my few problems with Snow Leopard is that my ancient Agfa scanner won't work with the ScanWiseX software anymore. A third party product does work though. Third-party "haxies" don't work either, but most folks are assuming that they will be updated. OTOH, I like the moving of the services menu to the context (right-click) menu and the customization one can do there.
M
I could do that one page at a time, but it's faster to create the formulas in excel, last document I worked with had 316 pages. If you have a way to copy a single column out of a document, I'd love to hear it, would save me a lot of time.
I'm on 10.6.1, while I got the print issue going, it won't scan to my Mac. It's a POS HP all in one, I'll be able to get a new one next year so hopefully all will be well, meantime I'll just scan to a jump drive and load it that way.
The thing that eats at me is when I open a program or wake it up from hibernate. It was near instant on 10.5.8, now it's 10-20 seconds, even an Apple program like Safari or iTunes does it. LR2 has slowed down a lot, making a change or zooming in takes a long time to process, where before it didn't take even a couple of seconds.
I've given it a month, I'm going to write Apple and ask them about it. See what they say on the matter.
Yes, HP's support for older printers is limited, but that's an HP problem, not an Apple problem. They just want to sell you another device. My three HP printers have been working fine.
You must have some disc issues, as startup after sleep is faster than ever for me. LR2 runs fine too. Do you optimize your catalog every week? Good practice.
Have you run Disk Utility to check out issues. I would check out the data in Activity Monitor too to check for too many page outs etc,
M