Lighting Test Shoplight vs alien bees vs 580EX vs others

JohnBiggs · October 26, 2009

Ok. After reading much hate for the little hotshoe flashes I decided I needed to know what the truth is... at least the truth as far as I'm concerned.

So I pulled out all the different lights I own and tried them all in a similar configuration.

The equipment tested -

Canon 580EX
Canon 580EXII
Lumipro LP120
Alienbees AB400
Alienbees AB800
Homedepot 250watt shop light.

Here was the setup:

Canon 5DII with Tamron 28-75mm

Polaris Light Meter

Strobes triggered by alienbees CyberSyncs.

Light tube/bulb about 67" away. From this distance the head would have to move over 5" before it would gain or loose a third of a stop difference. So if one head was actually 68" and another 66" it really wouldn't affect the outcome.

1/125 second shutter speed (I wanted to eliminate other light sources but I turned off other lights to be safe.)

ISO 200. I have some room up or down.

All lights at full power. Alienbees with 7" reflector. 580s set at a manual zoom of 28mm. Lumipro set at 28mm.

I did every test several times with the light meter. There were no variations except for perhaps a tenth of a stop, which I tested several more times to be sure I had the right number. Then in case the light meter was off I took a shot of the area I was taking the meter reading from with the 5DII using the settings the light meter provided but rounded down to the nearest stop. This is rounding fine because it's really a sanity check and you can just decrease exposure by 1/3 or 2/3 stops as needed if you really want to. However the light meter was right on the whole time so all numbers below are the light meter numbers.

continued....

JohnBiggs · October 26, 2009

I tested every light bare and with umbrella (43" wescott double fold shoot through). The umbrella consistently ate a stop and a third of light (1.3), so I'm not going to list it.

Actual f-stop numbers for each light -
580EX - f20
The first light I tested so I didn't know what to expect.

580EXII - f20
Suprised me this was the same as the 580. The only thing was the 580EXII was ready to go again so much faster.

AB400 - f20
The AB400 actually slightly edged out the 580EX's but not enough to gain a third of a stop. In all I'd say they are close to even. The AB400 still has a speed advantage over the EXII though. But I wouldn't actually run either light at full power if I could help it.

AB800 - f27
Now we have some power, and fast recycling too. But if you are like me and have an AB400 you probably don't even run that over 1/4. So will this ~1.3 stops help?

LP120 - f13
Well it's about 1.3 stops less than a 580 or AB400, and it cycles very slow. However if you are on a budget and can control that trigger finger there is still plenty of power here.

HD250 - f1.7 (given extra warm up time)
Say what. My lens wouldn't drop below 2.8 so I couldn't test this as easily with the camera. You will find two sample pictures from the HD250 in the gallery. One is at 2.8 in the test conditions. and the other I bumped to ISO800@2.8 (An alternative would be 1/30 @ 2.8 which should have yielded similar results but perhaps with a little shake.) The point is the LP120 blows the socks off this thing.

Here is a chart for those who are middle managers. The blue is the actual fstop. However this can be misleading. The red is a more accurate representation of power differences suitable for charts.

Here are all the sample shots if you want to get crazy. They are tagged with the light source. The metadata is still there.
http://www.biggstudios.com/Other/LightTest/10106746_NjeTi/1/694096624_cgZYB

I hope someone else enjoys this. I don't think I've seen anyone else on the net really say what the differences are. I know I have some budget lighting too, so there are gonna be some super strobes out there.

Thanks all.

cmason · October 27, 2009

Thanks for that and really interesting. I would have assumed that the ABs would be significantly more powerful than the 580s. would love to see a 430 in the mix.

ziggy53 · October 27, 2009

Doh, I just reread John's setup and he set up the 580 flashes at 28mm zoom. Never mind the diatribe I previously posted, 'cause John covered it.

Good job John and greatly appreciated.

JohnBiggs · October 27, 2009

I wanted to add that my rather boring sample shots are completely unedited raw conversion using lightroom (no presets).

However I did a whitebalance adjustment on the two shots from the HD250. Hope you understand.

rwells · October 27, 2009

Thanks John for taking the time and effort to test this. It gives me a ballpark WS figure for the 580EX(xx) compared to my White Lightnings.

Tim Kamppinen · October 27, 2009

Thanks, very interesting. I'm wondering how you decided on 28mm. Does this give roughly the same angle of light as the 7" reflector on the alienbees?

Art Scott · October 27, 2009

THANX TO JOHN BIGGS FOR THE TIME AND WORK PUT INTO this TEST
Hopefully this will dispel at least some of the mis-information about those "TADPOLE" hotshoe strobes not having any power....when in fact they have as much power as some actual studio strobes and are much more controllable with the cameras on board computers.....

MANY THANX TO JOHN FOR THE TIME AND WORK PUT INTO THIS COMPARATIVE TEST

thumb

bow

kdog · October 28, 2009

Great stuff, John! Really good information to know.

JohnBiggs · October 28, 2009

Tim Kamppinen wrote:

Thanks, very interesting. I'm wondering how you decided on 28mm. Does this give roughly the same angle of light as the 7" reflector on the alienbees?

Tim,

It was fairly arbitrary. It is the default 'zoom' on the Lumipro, and I had to pick something. I'm going to look into the angle vs the angle from the 7".

Thanks,
John

Tim Kamppinen · October 29, 2009

JohnBiggs wrote:

Tim,

It was fairly arbitrary. It is the default 'zoom' on the Lumipro, and I had to pick something. I'm going to look into the angle vs the angle from the 7".

Thanks,
John

Cool. The zoom setting really varies the output on hotshoe flashes. I'm willing to bet the 580's would be considerably brighter if you zoomed them out all the way than the AB400, given the results that you got so far. But of course the coverage of the light at the same distance would be much narrower... so the most objective method would be to find a zoom setting that approximates the angle of the 7" reflector and use that for the comparison.

lfortier · October 29, 2009

Thanks for all the comparative work you did.

You just saved me a ton of money. I use speedlights and have been getting good results but kept wondering if I could do better with "big" lights.

Thanks again.

cmason · October 29, 2009

We should not lose sight of the real implications here. While it all looks 'close enough' and I do look at this as validation of much I have read on Strobist, remember that an f-stop is not just one notch more light. An f-stop is TWICE the light output.

This could impact you dramatically if you choose other modifiers, or perhaps you need to light a larger area or subject(s). Plus, don't forget, that a 580EXII is $385, and an AB400 is $225, and AB800 is $279.

As John points out, the ABs recycle faster. Probably a non-issue in most situations, but at a wedding or even a more formal photo session, waiting to change batteries etc can be crippling.

(oh and for the record, I have two 430EX only, and no alien bees.)

JohnBiggs · October 29, 2009

cmason wrote:

We should not lose sight of the real implications here. While it all looks 'close enough' and I do look at this as validation of much I have read on Strobist, remember that an f-stop is not just one notch more light. An f-stop is TWICE the light output.

This could impact you dramatically if you choose other modifiers, or perhaps you need to light a larger area or subject(s). Plus, don't forget, that a 580EXII is $385, and an AB400 is $225, and AB800 is $279.

As John points out, the ABs recycle faster. Probably a non-issue in most situations, but at a wedding or even a more formal photo session, waiting to change batteries etc can be crippling.

(oh and for the record, I have two 430EX only, and no alien bees.)

Ohh how hard it can be to find an outlet in the front of a church. Or what if the couple wants to step outside as well. Speedlights are just so much easier. Sure you can buy the heavy battery for the Alienbees but then you have added expense (Another $299) added weight (19lbs), slower recycling and you have to turn off the modelling lamps.

After that if all you are doing is powering AB400's then what are you gaining?

JohnBiggs · October 29, 2009

Ohh how the numbers have been spinning around.

I have just realized that you would need 64 home depot 250watt lights to match the light level of just the lumipro.

I'm not sure you would want that much heat or to burn 16000watts.

cmason · October 29, 2009

JohnBiggs wrote:

Ohh how the numbers have been spinning around.

I have just realized that you would need 64 home depot 250watt lights to match the light level of just the lumipro.

I'm not sure you would want that much heat or to burn 16000watts.

That would make one hell of a ringlight

angevin1 · October 29, 2009

kdog wrote:

Great stuff, John! Really good information to know.

Has to be my Thread of the year pick, category: interesting!

!!!

Tim Kamppinen · October 29, 2009

JohnBiggs wrote:

Ohh how hard it can be to find an outlet in the front of a church. Or what if the couple wants to step outside as well. Speedlights are just so much easier. Sure you can buy the heavy battery for the Alienbees but then you have added expense (Another $299) added weight (19lbs), slower recycling and you have to turn off the modelling lamps.

After that if all you are doing is powering AB400's then what are you gaining?

It all comes down to what type of photography you do... I do shoot weddings and I use all speedlights, because it is easier and more portable. However, if I were shooting in a studio I'd definitely go for monolights.

However, I would someday like to get a vagabond and an AB1600 (or better yet, white lightning XL1600) because with that I could do things on location that speedlights can only dream about (like overpowering sunlight while shooting through a softbox, from more than 10 inches away).

JohnBiggs · October 29, 2009

Yep. The 1600 would blow away the speed lights.

If I was setting up a permanent studio I would do alienbees too. Just for the speed and in that situation some money would be saved.

Gringriff · November 14, 2009

Thanks so much for this thread and the postings so far. I am about to setup a "studio" in my basement and trying to contain costs. I have been looking hard at the Alien Bees and trying to decide how to go.

I will be taking family shots (4 and 5 people at once) plus individuals and couples with various backdrops (yet to be designed).

I have a Canon 50D and a speedlite 430 EX II. Could I use both an AB800 or 800/400 combo and the 430 at the same time? How difficult is it to hook up one or two AB flashes to a 50D?

For the prices the ABs seems to be very nice but I have also considered getting a 580 EX II and using it and the 430 as a slave.

This is really confusing. Thanks for any additional information.

JohnBiggs · November 18, 2009

Gringriff wrote:

Thanks so much for this thread and the postings so far. I am about to setup a "studio" in my basement and trying to contain costs. I have been looking hard at the Alien Bees and trying to decide how to go.

I will be taking family shots (4 and 5 people at once) plus individuals and couples with various backdrops (yet to be designed).

I have a Canon 50D and a speedlite 430 EX II. Could I use both an AB800 or 800/400 combo and the 430 at the same time? How difficult is it to hook up one or two AB flashes to a 50D?

For the prices the ABs seems to be very nice but I have also considered getting a 580 EX II and using it and the 430 as a slave.

This is really confusing. Thanks for any additional information.

if you don't want to take your lighting on the road then just get the alien bees. The will fire from the strobe of the 430 but you need to put the 430 in full manual mode or the slaves will fire too early.

You really only need to connect one ab light and use the others as a slave if you aren't going to use the 430. The ab comes with the needed cable.

Sam · November 19, 2009

OK,

I tried sit back, be quite and see if I could understand the value of this.

I can't.....go ahead and flame me, beat me up, hurt me.

I can't see how I would use this. To me at least there are many factors to consider when comparing lights. That said it was interesting to see how well the power of the small speed lights compared to the studio lights.

I would be more interested to see some data on how large the light pattern is in comparison to each other as well as illumination power at the center.

Even if the speed light has the same power in the center, will it have the same illumination ability as you move out from the center?

Wouldn't the AB 400 say cover (illuminate) a larger area than the speed light?

Then of course we have color temperature, size, weight, recycle time, portability, modifiers, cost, etc.

Sam

Terrence · November 19, 2009

Nice work!

One point I am confused on is your statement about the chart, "The blue is the actual fstop. However this can be misleading. The red is a more accurate representation of power differences suitable for charts." If the blue is the actual f-stop measured with the meter, what is the unit of measure for the red? For example, the 580EXII has a "red score" of somewhere between 7 and 8. Between 7 and 8 what?

pathfinder · November 19, 2009

One thing I learned is that the LumiPro 120 does not pack the punch that the 580, 580 IIS do..

That tells me the LumiPro 120 is less powerful than a Vivitar 285 HV as well, as my 285HVs seem as powerful as my 580s easily.

JohnBiggs · November 19, 2009

I won't kid you. There are a ton of factors. I tried to pick a spread of light that would be fair for all but every light is different and no matter the method of testing there is a way to point out flaws. The sample shots may show some of the light spread if you want to look for it but the subject is not ideal.

This test was more or less for me. I hear lots of "this light is better than that light" and I feel many people just keep spreading things they read online without actually knowing the truth. Is this test the true end all be all test? Probably not. But for all my purposes it means a lot more to me than any of the random assumptions I see spread on forums.

I'll test the spread another time. It's just not on my priority list. I hope someone else gets value from my tests although they aren't for everyone.

Sam wrote:

OK,

I tried sit back, be quite and see if I could understand the value of this.

I can't.....go ahead and flame me, beat me up, hurt me.

I can't see how I would use this. To me at least there are many factors to consider when comparing lights. That said it was interesting to see how well the power of the small speed lights compared to the studio lights.

I would be more interested to see some data on how large the light pattern is in comparison to each other as well as illumination power at the center.

Even if the speed light has the same power in the center, will it have the same illumination ability as you move out from the center?

Wouldn't the AB 400 say cover (illuminate) a larger area than the speed light?

Then of course we have color temperature, size, weight, recycle time, portability, modifiers, cost, etc.

Sam

JohnBiggs · November 19, 2009

Terrence wrote:

Nice work!

One point I am confused on is your statement about the chart, "The blue is the actual fstop. However this can be misleading. The red is a more accurate representation of power differences suitable for charts." If the blue is the actual f-stop measured with the meter, what is the unit of measure for the red? For example, the 580EXII has a "red score" of somewhere between 7 and 8. Between 7 and 8 what?

The red is the number of stops over f1.0. The blue is the actual aperture. It's hard to look at a bar graph with a bar at 16 and another at 22 and realize in reality the difference in light is the same as the difference in light between f1.4 and f2.0.

So the red bar is meant to put it into a better perspective.

JohnBiggs · November 19, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

One thing I learned is that the LumiPro 120 does not pack the punch that the 580, 580 IIS do..

That tells me the LumiPro 120 is less powerful than a Vivitar 285 HV as well, as my 285HVs seem as powerful as my 580s easily.

it's tough to really tell if two lights are equal by remembering situations where the lights have been used. Swap both on the same light stand, set the zooms the Same and expose two pictures. Let us know.

Camara Photography, LLC · February 22, 2011

Comparison blog post
I just did a test on the AB400, and a 580EX II, similar to John's. I also did a test using the 7" reflector, and the 11" LTR. Check it out, and let me know what you think of my ugly mug... ha ha: http://camaraphotography.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/canon-580ex-ii-vs-alien-bees-400-comparison-test/

Camara Photography, LLC · February 22, 2011

Camara Photography, LLC wrote: »

I just did a test on the AB400, and a 580EX II, similar to John's. I also did a test using the 7" reflector, and the 11" LTR. Check it out, and let me know what you think of my ugly mug... ha ha: http://camaraphotography.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/canon-580ex-ii-vs-alien-bees-400-comparison-test/

I should add that I too was surprised that the power of the AB 400 was very similar to the 580EX II. In fact, if you zoom the 580, it's brighter.

Village Idiot · February 24, 2011

JohnBiggs wrote: »

Tim,

It was fairly arbitrary. It is the default 'zoom' on the Lumipro, and I had to pick something. I'm going to look into the angle vs the angle from the 7".

Thanks,
John

There was a post about this on POTN that I read yesterday. I believe that one of the very knowledgable members commenting said that the 28mm zoom setting was something like 84 degrees and the 7" AB reflector is 80 while the 24mm zoom (on a 580EX II) is 74 degrees. I'll see if I can find the thread.

Village Idiot · February 24, 2011

Sam wrote: »

OK,

I tried sit back, be quite and see if I could understand the value of this.

I can't.....go ahead and flame me, beat me up, hurt me.

I can't see how I would use this. To me at least there are many factors to consider when comparing lights. That said it was interesting to see how well the power of the small speed lights compared to the studio lights.

I would be more interested to see some data on how large the light pattern is in comparison to each other as well as illumination power at the center.

Even if the speed light has the same power in the center, will it have the same illumination ability as you move out from the center?

Wouldn't the AB 400 say cover (illuminate) a larger area than the speed light?

Then of course we have color temperature, size, weight, recycle time, portability, modifiers, cost, etc.

Sam

Keep in mind that PCB's excellent marketing skills have his lights labeled as "effective watt seconds" of power. The B400 is actually only 160w/s, while a speedlight is generally around 60w/s from what I've heard. That's barely more than one stop extra. And coverage is entirely decided by modifiers.

The benefits of the B at that stage would likely be recycle time and the large amount of modifiers you could use. It wouldn't be very effective outside for more than a fill light while under the sun and besides that, you'd have to take power with you when a few speedlights will do the same trick.

Personal preference also plays a large role in it.

POTN Thread: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35

Lighting Test Shoplight vs alien bees vs 580EX vs others

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