New Camera

Soppy · April 13, 2010

I am looking to buy a new camera sometime in the future (probably end of summer or later) so its a little ways out. I am leaning towards Nikon as they seem to have really good low light performance. Is this correct or am I just uninformed?

Basically my budget is going to be rather low (around $700 if possible) so that I can have some money for a lens or two. Any ideas?

ziggy53 · April 13, 2010

Let's forget about your budget momentarily.

The best way to recommend a new camera is to explore your needs.

What sort of photography do you do? What do you wish to do?

What is your background in photography?

Please be as complete as possible in your answers. As it is, your question just does not give us enough information to make a reasonable recommendation.

Soppy · April 13, 2010

Alright, sorry I guess I didn't quite know what to put in lol

I am primarily a landscape and automotive photographer. It is mostly a hobby for me but right now I have a Pentax K100D that has 6.2 mega-pixels and, while I love it as my first camera, I would like something a little higher end as far as image quality. I have been shooting for almost three years now so I feel like I can find my way around a pro-sumer DSLR after a little learning.

I am planning on getting into portrait photography a little bit, but primarily want to expand the automotive and action photography side of my business. This will still only be a hobby though so that is mainly why I can't afford to buy the big guns lol

I feel like ideally I would want something that can take a compact flash card, so I can do sequence shots without being limited to 5 shots as I currently am, something with upwards of 12mp, so I can crop and still get good resolution, and decent low light performance, because my current camera can't go above ISO 600 without looking terrible and that is somewhat limiting.

Also, I was considering a one lens purchase for the new camera (like 18-200mm or something). Are there any big downsides to this?

If you need any more info, just let me know, happy to provide

Qarik · April 13, 2010

the best bang for the buck for nikon at the moment is the D90 but that would eat up all your budget. The d5000 + 50mm 1.8 would be my next reccomendation.

Soppy · April 13, 2010

I was actually considering a D90 if I can save enough before they become obsolete.

Any thoughts on the one lens solution?

swintonphoto · April 13, 2010

How about something else Pentax offers like the K-x. It is 12 mp and is very affordable (around $600).

run_kmc · April 13, 2010

Stick with Pentax. Get a K-7, or a K-x if you'd like to have video.

Art Scott · April 13, 2010

since you are shooting Pentax....you did not mention what lenses you have....but.....a fellow Dgrinner in Salt Lake uses Oly......I think that oly will use the pentax lenses also..........you can step up to an OLY E620 for way less than 1K (body) or an E30 for around !.5k (body).....Oly lenses are extremely sharp and if you want you can add Sigma lenses for fast constant aperture lenses that are very tack sharp reliable and won't break the bank to get into..............

EDIT:
I see Mr Swinton came in with good sound advice..........

Soppy · April 13, 2010

Does anyone have ISO image crop comparisons for the k-x? I'm fairly interested in that now since B&H has a k-x with 18-55mm and a 50-200mm for $600...

Grainbelt · April 13, 2010

Soppy wrote:

Does anyone have ISO image crop comparisons for the k-x? I'm fairly interested in that now since B&H has a k-x with 18-55mm and a 50-200mm for $600...

www.dpreview.com just finished their K-X review, and it compared very favourably against similar models from canon and Nikon. Their review has crops at every ISO, including same shots of the D5000 and a Canon.

Not sure what lenses you already have, but if the K100D has the 18-55, no reason to buy it again, no changes have been made, and it is very useful for most landscape situations.

Unless you need to travel light, I see no advantage to the 18-250 lenses.

For a telephoto, I have and recommend the Pentax DA 55-300. It is sharp, and while not particularly fast, it does stay at F4 past 100mm, which can be useful. A great value at ~300.

One item of note: the kit lenses sold with the K-x are designated as DA L lenses, with the L for light - they have plastic mounts, and the DA L 55-300 doesn't ship with a lens hood.

Check pentaxforums.com for used lenses as well, lots of goods changes hands there, I've had good experiences. Same name there as here.

Full disclosure: I have a K200D and am lusting after the K7 and DA 35mm 2.8 lens, but so far have held off.

Soppy · April 13, 2010

Also something I would like is one with a live-view monitor that angles down, I have wanted to get a number of shots that I can't get without that feature... Is there any alternative to this if I find a camera, like the k-7, that doesn't have that?

Soppy · April 13, 2010

Never mind, I see the k7 doesn't have live view at all so that wouldn't be an option...

Soppy · April 13, 2010

Wow I feel stupid, now I see it does have live view so my original question still is accurate...

I am very interested in the k7 as it seems to be a step above the D90, only problem is so is the price. Do these generally go down if I were to wait a while? Or is there a season where the prices drop much due to low sales? I haven't bought a camera in quite a while so any info is helpful!

The Kx doesn't seem as nice as the D90 to me though from what I have seen. After reading much of the DP review of the k7 I might be sold. I found a kit with 2 lenses for 1,200. I am planning on selling my old stuff to help pay for the new...

My current equipment that I would sell is as follows:

Tamron 75-300mm 1:4-5.6LD for Pentax AF (used for maybe 100-200 shots if that)

Pentax K100D (7350 shots, no scratches, excellent condition)

Pentax-DA 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 AL (7,000 shots or so, no scratches, excellent condition)

I'll probably throw my tripod in there too as it is not what I'm looking for anymore. I need something that I can adjust without having to guess how much the head will sag when I let go lol

If anyone has any idea how much that stuff would be worth, I would really appreciate the help.

Grainbelt · April 13, 2010

Last Tamron 70-300 I saw on pentax forums went for $110.
The kit lens, you might get $80 for.
I just saw a K10D listed for 295, the K100D would go for 200-250.

MarkR · April 14, 2010

Soppy wrote:

Wow I feel stupid, now I see it does have live view so my original question still is accurate...

I am very interested in the k7 as it seems to be a step above the D90, only problem is so is the price. Do these generally go down if I were to wait a while? Or is there a season where the prices drop much due to low sales? I haven't bought a camera in quite a while so any info is helpful!

Pentax prices generally drop slightly as the equipment has been in the marketplace for a while. They then drop even more once a new model comes out. When the K-7 came out, the price of the K20d dropped to HALF the original MSRP. (At which point I snapped mine up.

)

You also might want to check various forum marketplaces. You might be able to pick up a gently used K-7 if you're careful and patient.

MarkR · April 14, 2010

Soppy wrote:

Alright, sorry I guess I didn't quite know what to put in lol

Also, I was considering a one lens purchase for the new camera (like 18-200mm or something). Are there any big downsides to this?

If you need any more info, just let me know, happy to provide

I have the Pentax 18-250 (rebranded Tamron). I love it. IQ-wise it's at about the same quality as the kit lenses, (and Pentax kit is generally a step or two above its competitors), but has some obvious convenience factors. It is a bit heavy and prone to zoom-creep, but very useful as a vacation or all-around lens.

Soppy · April 15, 2010

Ok so the only features that are preventing me from getting the K7 are:

Lack of tilt LCD
Poor high ISO performance
And this is just a curiosity, but if everyone is recommending Pentax, why is it that all the pros use Nikon and Canon?

Also I am curios about the dynamic range of the camera. What is average? Apparently the k7 sees 4 stops, but I have no clue how significant that figure is. Any help is always appreciated.

MarkR · April 15, 2010

Soppy wrote:

Ok so the only features that are preventing me from getting the K7 are:

Lack of tilt LCD
Poor high ISO performance
And this is just a curiosity, but if everyone is recommending Pentax, why is it that all the pros use Nikon and Canon?

Also I am curios about the dynamic range of the camera. What is average? Apparently the k7 sees 4 stops, but I have no clue how significant that figure is. Any help is always appreciated.

Canon and Nikon (& Oly, Sony, etc.) all make good cameras. Canon & Nikon certainly hold the lion's share of the market, pro and amateur. And there is at least one Pro on these boards who used Pentax professionally.

(no, it's not me!)

The biggest reason probably to recommend Pentax is that you are already invested, to some extent, with the system, making the cost to upgrade more feasible. However, I doubt you'd be unhappy with a Canon or Nikon, if it has the features you want and is in your budget.

Soppy · April 15, 2010

Alright. Something else I neglected to mention is I will be studying abroad for a semester next year or so. I would like to have my with me when I go there so I can photograph London and Rome and whatnot.

I realize there aren't really advantages (short of not having to change lenses) to one lens system, but are there any disadvantages?

I was considering like an 18-200mm or 300mm and if I get a second one, a 50mm prime. I can see how only having the camera and one lens to have to take around most of the time would be helpful in this case.

Overall image quality is more important to me than anything. I can deal with not having a tilt LCD, but the one thing that is really turning me off from the K7 is the high noise in high ISO ranges.

cab.in.boston · April 15, 2010

Soppy wrote:

I realize there aren't really advantages (short of not having to change lenses) to one lens system, but are there any disadvantages?

There are design compromises that must be made when designing a superzoom like an 18-200. You get a lens that covers a very wide focal length range, but with a typical aperture like f/3.5-5.6 it is slower (significantly so at the long end) than a lens with a more modest zoom range can be, plus as I recall from various reviews, you will have more undesirable effects like chromatic aberration and distortion than you would find in a lens with more of a "pro" range like 24-70 or 70-200. To make a superzoom with optical quality similar to those lenses, the size, weight, and price would be astronomical, if it was even possible at all to make an 11x constant aperture lens.

As you mention, a single lens solution is handy, but there are definitely tradeoffs that must be made for that convenience. That's not to say that great images can't be made with a superzoom, though. In the end, you are the only one who can decide what your priorities are.

Soppy · April 15, 2010

I figured there would be something like that. I think I'll just stick with an 18-55mm and a separate 70-200mm, and if I can afford it a little later, a 50mm prime then.

Does anyone have suggestions for the other things I posted?

ziggy53 · April 15, 2010

Soppy wrote:

Alright. Something else I neglected to mention is I will be studying abroad for a semester next year or so. I would like to have my with me when I go there so I can photograph London and Rome and whatnot.

I realize there aren't really advantages (short of not having to change lenses) to one lens system, but are there any disadvantages?

I was considering like an 18-200mm or 300mm and if I get a second one, a 50mm prime. I can see how only having the camera and one lens to have to take around most of the time would be helpful in this case.

Overall image quality is more important to me than anything. I can deal with not having a tilt LCD, but the one thing that is really turning me off from the K7 is the high noise in high ISO ranges.

Zoom lenses with extreme ranges have a tremendous convenience factor, but when you say, "Overall image quality is more important to me than anything.", then you really should go with a multiple zoom system. You will blow your $700 budget but if image quality really is your concern then you need to increase your budget.

What I use for a travel system:

Canon 40D
Sigma 10-20mm, f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM
Canon EF-S 17-55mm, f/2.8 IS USM
Canon EF 70-200mm, f/4L IS USM
Canon EF 50mm, f/1.4 USM
Tamron 1.4x teleconverter
Canon 1.4x teleconverter
Close focus adapter, 3.3 diopter, to fit the 50mm, f/1.4, gives about 1/2 lifesize.
Canon 500D, 77mm, 2 diopter lens with 67-77mm ring to fit 70-200mm, f/4L, gives almost 1:1 at MFD.
2 - Sigma 500 DG Super flashes
Demb Flip-It
Charger and spare camera battery.

Around 15 pounds

This all fits into an Adorama Pro Slinger bag.

I also take a "holster" bag for travelling really light and an additional lens case that can be attached to the holster for taking an additional lens (or it will hold an external flash). This modularity gives me tremendous flexibility in configuration when I plan for a day of shooting.

I typically also take a decent P&S camera for "snaps".

cab.in.boston · April 15, 2010

Ziggy, with only one body, why do you need two TCs? I would guess with that setup that you'd only be using the (presumably Canon) TC on the 70-200 anyway?

Soppy · April 15, 2010

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but what does a TC do exactly?

cab.in.boston · April 15, 2010

Soppy wrote:

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but what does a TC do exactly?

It effectively multiplies (converts) the focal length and aperture of a lens. A 70-200 f/4 lens with a 1.4x TC results in an effective 98-280 f/5.6 lens. The resulting 280 length is very close to the field of view of a 300 lens, but image quality is not as good as a true 300mm lens (and you've lost a stop of aperture as well), but it is a way to increase your focal length without needing an additional longer lens.

They typically come in 1.4x, 1.7x, and 2x. I have never used one myself, but from what I've read, the loss of quality gets worse as the conversion factor gets higher, so many people seem to prefer only using the lower value TCs, although I've seen very nice results with 2x TCs in use.

Soppy · April 15, 2010

Huh, thats interesting. Good to know as well.

So if I should increase my budget, how much are we talking? Keeping in mind I would like to buy 2 lenses with it...

I do plan on making this next camera last me for quite a few years if possible, so I suppose I could spend a little more...

cab.in.boston · April 15, 2010

Soppy wrote:

So if I should increase my budget, how much are we talking? Keeping in mind I would like to buy 2 lenses with it...

I do plan on making this next camera last me for quite a few years if possible, so I suppose I could spend a little more...

There is a very wide range of $$$ you could spend. I have a D90 and love it (although I pine for a D300s), but that body would currently set you back about $900 without a lens. A D5000 uses the same sensor as the D90; you give up some functionality but gain the tilt LCD. That body sells for $630 at B&H right now. This is for the camera body only, taking into consideration your desire for image quality, you probably want something better than the kit lenses. (I'm more familiar with Nikon products, but usually the prices for Canon are in the same ballpark.)

As for lenses, I have and really like the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 (non-VC), that runs about $480. From what I have read, although I've never used the Nikkor, the Tamron compares very well with the Nikkor 17-55 f/2.8, which is larger and heavier (more robust and better weather sealed), but runs about 3x the price, at almost $1400 right now. For a longer lens, the new Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 VRII is supposed to be amazing, and it had better be, at $2300! You have 3rd party alternatives such as Sigma ($800) or Tamron ($730). Both of those are supposed to be nice lenses, but obviously not as incredible as the Nikon version.

Personally, as I mentioned I have the D90 and Tamron 17-50, and until I can afford the Sigma 70-200, I have the Nikkor 55-200 VR ($225), which is a plastic mount, variable aperture (4-5.6) lens, but actually is fairly decent in good light. Just don't try and use it outside in the rain or in low light. It will serve me fine until I upgrade my telezoom.

So the cheapest of these options would be D5000 + Tamron 17-50 + Tamron 70-200 = $1840 (about $1340 if you went with the Nikon 55-200 VR). Or you could go with a D3x + Nikkor 24-70 + 70-200 = $11,500. :ivar

ziggy53 · April 15, 2010

cab.in.boston wrote:

Ziggy, with only one body, why do you need two TCs? I would guess with that setup that you'd only be using the (presumably Canon) TC on the 70-200 anyway?

The Tamron converter works pretty well on the EF 50mm, f1.4 USM. I use it in conjunction with the close focus diopter when I don't want to carry the 70-200mm zoom and Canon 500D close focus diopter. The converter doesn't weigh very much and I appreciate the extra options. (The Canon converter will not fit that lens or I would just use it instead.)

Soppy · April 15, 2010

I am a 19 year old college kid paying for tuition on loans lol, $1300 is a bit seep for me. I plan on making a decent amount of money over the summer and this will be my reward lol. Do you think I could be alright without the 70-200 lens?

Also I guess thats where the benefit of the Pentax comes in, I could keep my Tamron 70-200 and not have to replace it, and possibly buy a nicer 18-55mm to replace the kit lens I'll sell with the camera.

Is the D90 image quality good in low light, high ISO?

Also, is the D90 considered a better camera than the K7 or would I be better suited with a K7?

With the whole Pentax dropping there price to half after anew one comes out, there's no way of knowing when a new one will come out is there? They seem to come out with different cameras on an annual basis so ideally I wouldn't want to wait around that long unless I know for sure the one they are coming out with would affect the price of he K7...

Thanks for all the help you guys, nice to get some experienced people's opinions!

Just for kicks, here is my dream equipment list:

Camera Body

Nikon D3S
$5,000

Lenses

Tamron AF28-75mm F/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF)
http://www.tamron.com/lenses/prod/2875mm.asp
$500

AF70-200mm F/2.8 Di LD (IF) Macro
$750
http://www.tamron.com/lenses/prod/70200_di.asp

AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G
http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Camera-Lenses/2180/AF-S-NIKKOR-50mm-f%252F1.4G.html
$430-$500

Flash

SB-600 AF Speedlight Unit
http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Flashes/4802/SB-600-AF-Speedlight-Unit.html
$100-$200

Other

Manfrotto 690B Compact Monopod (Black) - Supports 22lb
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5535-REG/Manfrotto_680B_680B_Compact_Monopod_Black_.html
$60

GP-1 GPS Unit
http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/GPS/25396/GP-1-GPS-Unit.html
$100-$200

BM-6 LCD Monitor Cover
http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/LCD-Monitor-Cover/25332/BM-6-LCD-Monitor-Cover.html
$10

(x2) 52mm Circular Polarizer II Filter
http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Lens-Filters/2233/52mm-Circular-Polarizer-II-Filter.html
$20

(x2) 52mm Soft Focus Filter
http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Lens-Filters/4926/52mm-Soft-Focus-Filter.html
$20

MB-D200 Multi Power Battery Pack
http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Batteries/25337/MB-D200-Multi-Power-Battery-Pack.html
$200

Any really wealthy people out there want to help a budding photographer out? lol

Grainbelt · April 15, 2010

One thing we've glossed over a bit is the backward compatibility of Pentax cameras with older manual focus cameras, including fully functional metering and 'catch-in-focus' confirmation.

This can be a great way to pick up a few fast primes for low light, portrait or macro work without spending a lot of money. A 50mm 1.7 lens can be had for $50, older 100mm macros for similar money. I end up focusing manually for macro shots anyway, so it works out well.

The jump from Kx to K7 is a large one, dollar wise, and the Kx has reputedly better high ISO performance. Unless you need the weather sealing, external controls and top LCD of the K7, it is likely a better choice. Lots of buzz over that body.

If it were me, the K-x, 18-55 and 55-300 kit (for USD 714.95 at B&H!) is a fantastic setup to start from. Sell everything else you have (the K100D will be easier to sell with the 18-55 anyway) and buy whatever specialty lens or external flash (or both) you can afford with the extra money. Pentax forums has a very active and trustworthy marketplace, in my experience.

I started in a similar fashion with the K200D & 18-55, then added AF360 flash, FA 50 1.4 lens, Tamron 90mm Macro, Sigma 10-20, DA 55-300. I'm into it for over two grand now, but I did it gradually over two years, purchased some of it used, and now have a very capable kit -- more capable than I am as a photographer, honestly. I also have older manual focus lenses - M40mm 2.8 pancake, M50mm 1.7, M100mm 2.8, and they all perform very well on a digital body.

ziggy53 · April 16, 2010

Grainbelt wrote:

... If it were me, the K-x, 18-55 and 55-300 kit (for USD 714.95 at B&H!) is a fantastic setup to start from. Sell everything else you have (the K100D will be easier to sell with the 18-55 anyway) and buy whatever specialty lens or external flash (or both) you can afford with the extra money. Pentax forums has a very active and trustworthy marketplace, in my experience.
...

Sounds like good advice to me.

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