New Guy Intro

Howzit · August 10, 2010

Hi there, name is Neal and looking to do something more than P&S picture taking. I live in a really great town, Pella, IA, that I would like to capture as I see it.

Married to Kam for 15 years with 4 great kids aged 13-3.

Pella, IA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pella,_Iowa & http://www.pella.org/

As a rookie I'll be asking for advice and direction.

Cheers,
Neal

Icebear · August 10, 2010

You've come to the right place Neal. Very supportive, not snarky (unless you start it generally) and folks are more than willing to share. Welcome to the asylum.

Howzit · August 10, 2010

Icebear wrote: »

You've come to the right place Neal. Very supportive, not snarky (unless you start it generally) and folks are more than willing to share. Welcome to the asylum.

Thanks Icebear. 1st question: Where do I start when looking for my first real camera? I have a budget of $1000.

Icebear · August 10, 2010

Howzit wrote: »

Thanks Icebear. 1st question: Where do I start when looking for my first real camera? I have a budget of $1000.

You're in trouble now! You are going to get more advice than a new fiancee at a family reunion.

Seriously, $1000 will get you a wonderfully capable camera and lens kit. There are others way more qualified to help you spend your "large" than I, but in that neighborhood (OK, close), a Nikon D90 with the 18-105 VR is hard to beat. Let the wars begin!!!

Howzit · August 10, 2010

Icebear wrote: »

You're in trouble now! You are going to get more advice than a new fiancee at a family reunion.

Seriously, $1000 will get you a wonderfully capable camera and lens kit. There are others way more qualified to help you spend your "large" than I, but in that neighborhood (OK, close), a Nikon D90 with the 18-105 VR is hard to beat. Let the wars begin!!!

I'm looking at complete used kits and new like the Nikon D90 and Canon 550 T2i.

Yeah, I'm expecting some hot opinions and advice.

I found this great write-up on the T2i but it was the User Ratings and comments that got me: http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/canon-eos-rebel-t2i/4505-6501_7-33974698.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody#reviewPage1

ziggy53 · August 11, 2010

If your total budget is truly $1000 I suggest a refurbished Olympus E-600 and 2 lenses. It's the best $450USD you can spend. That leaves some budget for a macro lens and a flash plus some flash modifiers, an extra battery for the camera plus batteries and charger for the flash.

http://www.adorama.com/IOME600K1R.html

http://www.adorama.com/IOMFL36R.html

http://www.adorama.com/IOM3535.html

The flash modifiers that I use you can make pretty easily:

http://www.fototime.com/inv/908195739C4C0D3

http://abetterbouncecard.com/

Joe Demb also makes an interesting device for sale (reasonable):

http://www.dembflashproducts.com/flipit/

I own a FlipIt product and it works well and is very well made.

A site showing various modifiers in use:

http://www.the-meissners.org/2006-small-albums/2006-flashmod/index.html

Howzit · August 11, 2010

ziggy53 wrote: »

If your total budget is truly $1000 I suggest a refurbished Olympus E-600 and 2 lenses. ...l

Thanks Ziggy, I'll check it out. I've also had the E-620 recommended to me.

...I'm heading out at lunchtime to get a feel for a couple.

ziggy53 · August 11, 2010

Howzit wrote: »

Thanks Ziggy, I'll check it out. I've also had the E-620 recommended to me.

...I'm heading out at lunchtime to get a feel for a couple.

The E-600 is really just an E-620 with some relatively minor features removed. The important features of imager, image processor, AF, metering, wireless flash control, are all retained.

Awais Yaqub · August 11, 2010

Welcome, Pella looks like amazing place i really like old style shops. Get some camera soon and show us some images from Pella ;-)

Howzit · August 11, 2010

Awais Yaqub wrote: »

Welcome, Pella looks like amazing place i really like old style shops. Get some camera soon and show us some images from Pella ;-)

Thanks AY. It is. Some real amazing/interesting views that I feel (just me) need my vision (if I have any).

Nice pics http://www.pella.org/aspx/chambermembership/yourchamber/grpahicsstandards.aspx?cid=0&sid=2&n1id=1&n2id=16 but...

...okay don't shoot me

Awais Yaqub · August 11, 2010

Howzit wrote: »

Thanks AY. It is. Some real amazing/interesting views that I feel (just me) need my vision (if I have any).

Nice pics http://www.pella.org/aspx/chambermembership/yourchamber/grpahicsstandards.aspx?cid=0&sid=2&n1id=1&n2id=16 but...

...okay don't shoot me

Beautiful...

Howzit · August 11, 2010

Awais Yaqub wrote: »

Beautiful...

They are - but they are not mine, and maybe too beautiful.

There are grungy areas of town, just as historic that have their own beauty. I'll do my own thing and see what I come up with.

ziggy53 · August 11, 2010

richy wrote: »

... (Ziggy, does the oly have in body IS?) ...

Good point. Yes, the Oly E-600 has chip based IS.

Besides some really amazing Olympus Zuiko lenses the E-600 can also accept a number of other 4/3rds system lenses from Panasonic and Leica. (Some have compatibility restrictions however.)

I just find it amazing that one can get a decent camera, 3 lenses, a flash (with wireless control automation)
and you can have all of that for $1000USD. For starting out this has to be one of the best deals in the business of dSLR photography.

thumb

Howzit · August 11, 2010

I'm dense - forgive me

ziggy53 wrote: »

...I just find it amazing that one can get a decent camera, 3 lenses, a flash (with wireless control automation)
and you can have all of that for $1000USD. For starting out this has to be one of the best deals in the business of dSLR photography. thumb

Just to clarify the breakdown:

- Decent Camera - Olympus E600
- Lens 1 (14mm - 42mm f3.5-5.6)
- Lens 2 (ED 40 -150mm f4.0-5.6 Zuiko Digital Zoom)
$450 - http://www.adorama.com/IOME600K1R.html
- Lens 3 (Olympus Zuiko 35mm f/3.5 E-ED Digital (1:1) Macro Lens for the E Digital SLR System.)
$190 - http://www.adorama.com/IOM3535.html
- Flash (Olympus FL-36R Wireless Electronic Bounce & Swivel Head Flash, GN 36)
$230 - http://www.adorama.com/IOMFL36R.html
$870 (TOTAL)

Also, anything to look out for classified as refurbished?

Thanks,
Neal

ziggy53 · August 11, 2010

Howzit wrote: »

... Also, anything to look out for classified as refurbished? ...

I believe that you can add a 3 year Mack warranty for another $39:

http://www.adorama.com/IMXW3Y39.html

I recommend e-mailing Adorama to be sure.

Howzit · August 11, 2010

richy wrote: »

...Do you want to do much work in low light situations (i.e. in doors or late at night) where a tripod isnt going to help i.e. moving subjects.
Do you want to take portraits where the amount of the subject in focus is very small i.e. eyes in focus, ears out of focus?

Assuming its a no to those the oly seems like a great choice. ...

Thanks Richy,

No to both. Outdoor stills for now until I can build up some skills and confidence. I'll probably shoot the same scene over and over during the course of the day to capture different light.

Cheers,
Neal

Howzit · August 14, 2010

I've been trying to track down any DSLR Olympus in the vicinity of my small town. Nikons and Canon seems to be the only choice.

D90 and t2i look like the ones that I can get and get service for no problem.

chrisjohnson · August 15, 2010

I have this romantic notion of Pella being an old-fashioned town with old-fashioned ways, including a photo shop run by people with a passion for photography who not only sell you the kit but help you get started. My first mentor was such a person, prepared to take time to look at my photos and tell me where I was going wrong. I bought whatever he advised and was happy to shop with him for years. He also had some great second-hand items with a trustworthy provenance.

Buying locally can be a great choice.

chrisjohnson · August 15, 2010

Yes, the shop is still open although Mr Dubach is now even older than me, but I moved away, so I can no longer drop in early on Saturday morning after buying my freshly caught fish from the open market. Oh the good old days - Ilford, Velvia, I remember them.

Is there a local photo club? Talking ftf with fellow enthusiasts is the best way to learn, while you buy from Adorama or somesuch, as many do.

It sounds like you are an old-time SLR guy like me. Is that true?

Chrissiebeez_NL · August 15, 2010

Howzit wrote: »

Thanks AY. It is. Some real amazing/interesting views that I feel (just me) need my vision (if I have any).

Nice pics http://www.pella.org/aspx/chambermembership/yourchamber/grpahicsstandards.aspx?cid=0&sid=2&n1id=1&n2id=16 but...

...okay don't shoot me

OMG that is sooo strange.. it looks like the Netherlands (live there) and it also doesn't haha must visit it some time

good luck deciding on a cam! fortunatly, almost all cams are great these days

chrisjohnson · August 15, 2010

Chrissiebeez_NL wrote: »

OMG that is sooo strange.. it looks like the Netherlands (live there) and it also doesn't haha must visit it some time

good luck deciding on a cam! fortunatly, almost all cams are great these days

Looks like you need to visit Apeldoorn one day. If so, look up www.dubach.nl in the main street.

Groetjes, Chris

fldspringer · August 15, 2010

richy wrote: »

At the risk of grossly overcomplicating the OP's situation, one minor thought, Ziggy again will know the answer (I know very little about olympus cameras beyond the OM10 is amazing). If at some point you decide to get much more serious you may come across the term 'tilt shift' lens. I should point out this is like discussing dump valves with 17 year old motorists but I think its a valid point.If you really get bitten by the bug and you like taking pictures of buildings (and you dont mind buying a lens costing 1-2000) you get lenses which can take pictures without the buildings sloping in at the top. Not all camera systems have TS lenses, not sure about oly (or the possibility of adapting a nikon ts). The lenses move at the front of the camera to reduce or stop the effect of lines converging as they move through the frame.
As I said, its a long way in the future and most likely something you wont ever need, but if you are looking at doing 'townscapes' with buildings I'm thinking at some point it will cross your mind. Theres plenty on the web about tilt shift lenses with examples of what they do.

Olympus had some of the very best tilt/shift lenses in the OM days. The prices of these gems are quite high, not because of old OM owners, but Canon users via adapter. Nikon tilt/shift can also be used by adapter on the Oly body.

The one place where I won't recommend Olympus is their continious autofocus is not to the level of the competition. If sports or birds in flight are going to be a primary use, you may want to reconsider.

On the plus side, glass is very good at all price points. Its almost worth the price of admission. The entry level cameras are feature rich, offer the same IQ as their top of the line, and are a great starting point for a new DSLR owner. Before you move from the initial lenses, and as you discover your own shooting style, you should examine your needs vs what is available in the system. You can wash out and change before you invest heavily in a system that won't get you where you need to go.

I'm all alone when I say it really doesn't matter which DSLR you start with. They are all good enough to learn with. Just get one and hop on the learning curve. Don't be in a hurry to upgrade, just add whats necessary to do what you want to do. The little Oly system mentioned will go a long-long way, and for most will be enough until something stops working. Its a dandy kit for the price.

For what its worth, I'm heavily invested in Olympus and have a sweet list of very nice Zuiko lenses. I've considered the Nikon top of the line, but it would cost double for the same coverage I have now. I think Nikons re-design lenses are cream of the crop, and their C-AF system is as good as it gets, but I'm content where I'm at. I don't have to carry that Nikon system in the field either, and chiropractor bills would be impacted for sure.

HelenOster · August 15, 2010

richy wrote: »

.....I can't speak highly enough of adorama.com....

Thank you, so much!

ziggy53 · August 15, 2010

Olympus has some of the most unique offerings in the digital photography market. The system I outlined above is an excellent starter system for someone with a $1000USD budget. Later, you can get lenses the equal to the best from Canon, Nikon or Sony. I'm not sure it's really fair to talk about Tilt-Shift (Canon) and Perspective Control (Nikon) lenses to someone with a $1000 budget, since a single lens could eat up the entire budget.

I have been able to use modern digital software to do perspective adjustments and there is also software that allows extending DOF using digital stacking of multiple exposures at different prime focus. The advantage of using digital processing are that it should work regardless of camera and lens, offering more flexibility even across camera platforms.

Icebear · August 15, 2010

At the risk of setting myself up for some serious flame, I have to say TS lenses are a relic of the view camera past. With the high pixel counts of todays DSLRs, software solutions just make a lot more sense, as Ziggy stated. Face it, 4x5 and 8x10 cameras had zero DOF to work with. The ability to tilt and shift the lens plane was vital. Not so much any more.

Icebear · August 15, 2010

richy wrote: »

do you shoot LF or use TS lenses? Not flaming but I find it an odd statement.

I used to shoot MF, and have used TS (bellows) cameras, but no more. Could never afford the film and developing for LF

. I stand by my statement though. For DSLRs, I've yet to come across an architectural image that I needed to shoot that a TS lens would give me any advantage over software. Maybe I will someday, and when that happens I'll rent one, but I'm not losing any sleep over that.

And what about the statement do you find odd? Surely you don't take exception to the fact that the 35mm format has vastly greater DOF at any given f-stop than an 8x10 view camera? I'm willing to be schooled.

Icebear · August 16, 2010

Howzit · August 28, 2010

Howzit · August 29, 2010

Canon 60D & SX20iS
The more I read the more I like the Canon D60. Also, the T2i felt just a tad too small in my hands and the 50D about right but a little heavy. I'll keep a tab on my camera shop until the 60D comes in and check it out.

In the meantime I'm thinking of getting the P&S Canon SX20iS Poweshot for $350,00, saving some more, learning some more about exposure & lighting and then get the 60D - I can then have the SX20IS as my backup camera!?

(Yeah, yeah, I know but my 15 year old superb Petax WR90 35mm needs replacement anyway

)

...a question for the pro's: What is your backup camera?

Howzit · August 29, 2010

richy wrote: »

I shoot with a 5d2 and a 7d, backups are 20d, 10d a2e and an rz67, all cameras I have used to shoot weddings before. Having said that my first response if I had 20 minutes notice before a wedding would be to borrow the same cameras off another local photog (a few of us have that arrangement), the other backups are for onsite failures until a friend can drop off replacements.

Thanks for all the help Richy

To expand, what other camera do you/pro's have on hand that you can travel with, pick up and go and have as a backup? Some pro's have something light that will not weigh or slow them down.

Do P&S cameras even feature in the arsenal? If so, does anyone carry the SX1iS or SX20iS?

BTW, I spent a couple of hours today comparing the D5000 to the T1i and the Canon felt a whole lot more comfortable than the Nikon. Last week I compared the T2i to the D90 and the T2i felt better. I checked out the D90 and the 50D and to me the 50D suited me better. Finally I compared the T2i to the 50D and the 50D felt real good in my hands. (just a bit heavy).

At the moment I have no brand loyalty but so far, for me, Canon has fitted me better. Thumb, trigger finger, etc. just fell into place on the Canon's while I found myself hunting and fiddling on the Nikon's.

...I am really excited about the 60D!

Howzit · September 7, 2010

Sony A55
dpreview has finally completed their review of the Sony A55 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta55/page18.asp

New Guy Intro

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