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"Affordable" LCDs for Image Editing
NikonsandVstroms
Registered Users Posts: 990 Major grins
My Dell 24" which I'm not sure of the model off hand but is one of the lower ones is not cutting it for image editing and I know this will not be cheap but I'm wondering what are the current best bang for your buck monitors in the 24 and 27 inch ranges. Right now I have a 24 1920 x 1080 and 22 1680 x 1050, my video card is a NVIDIA Quadro FX580 (512MB) so it should be able to push any combination of monitors I hook up.
Also the 1920x1080 is a little tight for my web design work so the more resolution the better.
Also the 1920x1080 is a little tight for my web design work so the more resolution the better.
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What do you mean by "affordable"?? Do you have a $$$ budget?
For some people affordable is $200, for others $3000. Pointing you to Eizo and Lacie monitors would be a waste of time if $200 is the end of the spectrum you are at.
Your 22 inch? What make & model is that? A Dell 2209WA perhaps?
Is the standard sRGB color space adequate for you or do you edit images in the AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB color spaces?
Web work should always be in sRGB. To support AdobeRGB and ProPhotoRGB you will need a wide gamut monitor and in some respects that can be a real can of worms.
Looking at what you have told us so far, I'm pretty sure your current 24" monitor uses a 6bit "TN" TFT LCD panel. Asides from potential issues with 6bit processing of the image by the monitor's electronics, the TN panel itself has issues with viewing angles. You can see color/gamma shifts at viewing angles other than straight on and if you sit close to your monitor is becomes more obvious.
In terms of image quality for photo editing, these are the TFT LCD panel types from best to worst:
IPS (newer variants are S-IPS, AS-IPS, H-IPS, e-IPS, etc)
PVA (newer variants are S-PVA, c-PVA)
MVA (newer variants are A-MVA, P-MVA, S-MVA, etc)
TN
If you would like some background on these panels, read this article:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm
IMHO, current IPS and PVA monitors can be very close in image quality with units from the top tier manufacturers; IPS do show more detail in dark areas of an image but a number of users are finding that middle to low end IPS panels show unwanted "tinting" noticeable on white or gray backgrounds. Others initially object to the anti-reflection treatment on the matte screens of some IPS monitors (gives a "dirty" appearance) but most users get used to this.
Using some of this criteria, my initial thoughts are to point you to monitors that cost between $380 and $999. So what is your $$$ budget.
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http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php
By affordable basically I mean the cheapest that is useful. There is no set price range but I want to know what to expect.
Here's a list of budget IPS monitors. They all use 8bit IPS panels and they all cover close to 100% of the standard sRGB color space. You can find reviews on them in these web sites:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/reviews.php
Dell 2209WA
... 22" 1680x1050
... can be found for about $220 USD
Dell U2211H
... 21.5" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as HP ZR22w
... recently on sale for $219
Dell U2311H
... 23" 1920x1080
... recently on sale for $239
... same IPS panel as NEC EA231Wmi & Viewsonic VP2365WB
HP ZR22w
... 21.5" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as Dell U2211H
NEC EA231WMi
... 23" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as Dell U2311H & Viewsonic VP2365WB
... usually around $300; check price on amazon or buy.com
Viewsonic VP2365WB
... 23" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as Dell U2311H & NEC EA231Wmi
... usually around $300; check price on amazon or buy.com
HP ZR24w
... 24" 1920x1200
... IPS panel
... can be found for under $400
If you're interested in wide gamut monitors, then it is a different list and prices start at about $440 and go up over $1200.
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If I felt I'd actually get substantially more out of it, that NEC PA271w would be sitting on my desktop asap. Forget the Dell and Apple versions of this panel.
I'm leery of several of the new 30" monitors as they have eliminated the monitor side hardware controls for RGB. In the case of the HP ZR30w it has no OSD at all. Ditto the Hazro HZ30Wi. The Dell does look interesting however - it has an OSD.
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I have spent several hours this morning reading about monitors. I am not a $1,200 monitor person, so I find myself looking at Dell and HP. The vague feeling I have after reading a lot is that I lean toward the HP models.
Just a general tip, I've had much better luck with HP's consumer support than Dell's in case there ever is an issue.
They're very different monitors.
The ZR24w is much easier to live with for most people simply because it does not require as much color management.
The fundamental difference is in the back light - the ZR24w uses a standard CCFL back light and provides a standard sRGB color space to work in. The LP2475w uses a W-CCFL back light and provides a "wide gamut" (sRGB + AdobeRGB) color space to work in.
If you shoot with your DSLR JPEG color space set to AdobeRGB or shoot RAW and extract to AdobeRGB later, or you use Lightroom (ProPhotoRGB working space; not changeable), or if you edit with CS in the AdobeRGB space so as to print on your own multi-ink wide gamut printer.... it would be better to look to the LP2475w.
If however, you shoot and work in sRGB like most people and your intent is to either upload your images to web sites like Smugmug (which only accept sRGB embedded/tagged images) or you send out your images for printing to an off site company (most of which won't accept AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB embedded/tagged images), then the ZR24w is ideal.
Both monitors have had reports of issues with tinting. Typically this manifests as green on the left and red on the right and it shows more easily with an all white or light gray background. This seems to be a common characteristic of the last two generations of IPS panels from LG Display, the almost sole source supplier of IPS panels worldwide.
Due the wide gamut of the LP2475w, you have to ensure you are fully conversant in the practice of assigning ICC profiles and using "color managed" software to view images. If not, you may be frustrated by the vividly saturated colors, particularly greens and reds.
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The clumsy question I pose is this: If I use a color managed browser, and set Photoshop to work in sRGB, will that then prevent me from having problems, and will it then allow me to purchase the wide gamut monitor and perhaps take advantage of its virtues at a later date when a need for its capability emerges?
I must say, I have looked at some of the manufacturer's sites, and discover such a dizzying array of models it is hard to decipher it all.
No... humans are error prone.
Maybe this site will help...
http://www.gballard.net/psd.html
and...
http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_profile/embeddedJPEGprofiles.html#
done this test yet?
http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter
- I would worry if your system supported neither v2 or v4. If it doesn't support v2 you're in trouble! If it doesn't support v4, not so bad, most browsers don't. Most hardware calibrators can be set to produce and ICC v2 profile. Try this page with different browsers. Your results from FireFox v3.6.xx should be much different from IE8 or Chrome. See the last G Ballard link for a list of color managed browsers.
If you purchase a top quality monitor like the NEC PA241w or PA271w you will get a great wide gamut monitor and also a monitor that has a very good sRGB emulation mode.
So you can use it in a "calibrated" wide gamut mode where using its' SpectraViewII system you just know your wide gamut colors are bang on or you can use it in a "pre-calibrated", but unable to re-calibrate, sRGB mode. I would expect this sRGB mode to look pretty good for the first couple of years of the monitor's life but as it ages and the electronics drift it will slowly move away from spec.
The only way to keep that preset mode "bang on" is my changing the settings on your video card. Of course this will mean you will have to recalibrate the standard wide gamut mode if you make any changes at the video card side. The good news is that the NEC's keep that data in the internal LUT of the monitor.
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It sounds like I had better stick with the ZR24w.
I could relate to the NEC idea you offered at the end, but the whole, drifting out of proper function is more than I want to deal with, given the likely high price of the NEC monitors.
Thank you. I don't mean to wear you out with all this.
You work with video cards? ....as in repairing or adjusting them? Interesting. I did not know it was even possible.
meant "by changing" where I said "my changing"
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ALL monitors drift off spec over time. CRT's more quickly than LCD's.
The idea behind a hardware calibrator like a Spyder or i1D2 is that you use it to correct the factory default settings and then come back periodically to refresh it. CRT's may have required a calibration once every two weeks. LCD's may be OK for 2 months. It is not a one time deal.
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Something new....
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036306806&postcount=2384
It talks about an uncorrectable scaling issue with this monitor. I wonder if other monitors have this problem also?
Also see http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1526984
HP told me on the phone they are over 10,000 units on back order and they won't be available for months.
The really humorous part is the one HP guy said to buy the LP2475W because they have them in stock.
Newsy, what would you recommend as a standard gamut monitor now, as an alternative to the hp that is backordered?
From what I have read, the ones with the integrated calibrators are worth getting, I've seen recommendations from color experts who say that it's far better to get one of those rather than trying to match up the same monitor model with your own calibrator.
The way they work is that it's an integrated system. The calibrator, matched to the monitor, works with the included software and also interfaces directly with the monitor itself. This is supposed to allow direct communication with and configuration of the monitor and is supposed to increase the accuracy of the calibration compared to the more common "just profile it in software" method.
Please note that this is not from personal experience. I don't own one yet, I'm still shopping around just like you...
Go back to that list from earlier in this thread.
Consider the 23" 1920x1080 models. Of those the Viewsonic is my least favoured.
Read the reviews on TFTCentral and Flatpanelshd.
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The key with the NEC, Eizo, Lacie, and HP Dreamcolor accessory calibrators is that the software supplied with them is "tuned" for those monitors. This provides for a more accurate calibration as compared to using a generic i1D2 or Spyder3 with the monitor.
The NEC's have an internal LUT where the calibration data is held so you don't have to rely on the video card having a LUT to hold the data. There are some advantages to this in multi-monitor setups.
The NEC's LUT is 14bit (with 12 bit processing I think) so in theory you should see a higher quality transition between tones of colours. i.e. less potential for banding or posterization.
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There is a really good article on color gamut here.
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/
That’s an excellent non wide gamut display.
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Thank you! I agonized over models for days, considering HP, Dell, and NEC.
Whew, it's over. :-)
Thanks!
If by HDTV you mean a television with a VGA port, most likely... NOT!
From a calibrated dedicated computer monitor... most likely a yes.
Laptops are really problematic.
First off, the manufacturers often provide a "screen" utility that allows you, via software, to select your screen appearance for gaming, videos, web browsing, etc. These settings are so far off the sRGB standard they are ludicrous. You need to blow away that utility as it will interfere with a calibrated set-up.
HDTV's are not much different. Many do not offer a viewing mode that is conducive to calibrating to a standard.
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Then you would have to calibrate it. And even then, unless it is an expensive TV, its specs probably aren't much different than a laptop. It might be better to properly calibrate the laptop monitor as best as you can...
VGA is fine but I run my laptop's DVI straight into the HDMI on my TV because that creates an all digital connection. I understand that older, less expensive Windows laptops have no digital video out and are forced to use VGA, though. But I don't dare do any photo editing on my midrange TV, it's only for display.