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How to break into legit photography as a side business?
kcui
Registered Users Posts: 71 Big grins
So firstly, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this post, so I apologize in advance, but I couldn't find another place for it.
I consider myself and amateur / hobbyist but I purchase rather moderate to higher-end gear, though not nearly as high end as some of the professionals out there, who do photography every day.
As an aside, here is my gear, if anyone is wondering:
Canon 7D
Canon EF-S 60mm f2.8 Macro USM
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM
Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 AT-X
Anywho, over the past year I have been thinking that at some point I could see myself doing this as a side business, doing event photography or something. As I mainly do landscapes and am a hobbyist, I don't have:
1 - Formal education in photography
2 - Professional experience, particularly in shooting events and people
3 - Lack of a professional portfolio
I'm just wondering in the event that I should consider trying to start something on the side, how might I go about doing this, and gaining the experience to build a decent portfolio as a starting point to showcase to prospective clients?
I realize that obviously doing this professionally is a lot of time and effort, and it is not my intention to give the impression that I will half- ___ things, jsut because I would be doing this part time.
Another consideration of mine is starting a studio with my father, who is also an amateur photographer.
I appreciate any insights or opinions!
Thanks.
I consider myself and amateur / hobbyist but I purchase rather moderate to higher-end gear, though not nearly as high end as some of the professionals out there, who do photography every day.
As an aside, here is my gear, if anyone is wondering:
Canon 7D
Canon EF-S 60mm f2.8 Macro USM
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM
Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 AT-X
Anywho, over the past year I have been thinking that at some point I could see myself doing this as a side business, doing event photography or something. As I mainly do landscapes and am a hobbyist, I don't have:
1 - Formal education in photography
2 - Professional experience, particularly in shooting events and people
3 - Lack of a professional portfolio
I'm just wondering in the event that I should consider trying to start something on the side, how might I go about doing this, and gaining the experience to build a decent portfolio as a starting point to showcase to prospective clients?
I realize that obviously doing this professionally is a lot of time and effort, and it is not my intention to give the impression that I will half- ___ things, jsut because I would be doing this part time.
Another consideration of mine is starting a studio with my father, who is also an amateur photographer.
I appreciate any insights or opinions!
Thanks.
0
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14-24 24-70 70-200mm (vr2)
85 and 50 1.4
45 PC and sb910 x2
http://www.danielkimphotography.com
Basically I suggest contacting local established photographers to see if they need a "second shooter" or intern. It's generally fastest to learn from a working professional photographer.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
- Have some natural ability
- Get married
- Have a child
- Enroll child in town youth sports at an appropriate age (about 5)
- Get Smugmug account
- Take action shots of your child's team
- Put them on smugmug, email url to team parents
- Have one of the parents forward your url to the league committee president and recommend that you become the official league photographer
- Get invited to bid to the committee for the job and win it.
- Get Smugmug pro account.
- Shoot every team in the league, team & individual portraits, and action shots.
- Upload to Smugmug pro account
- email every parent in the league with the url
- pray for sales
- make about $4000 in profit (about $12/hr)
- Buy new gear
- goto step 11 next season, repeat.
It's fun!An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
This cracks me up! I am so happy for you that you did step #2 and #3 in that order. It is becoming less common these days.
I did the same as Qarik. I combined my two passions. Animals and photography. I volunteered to shoot a few (ok, a lot) of animal events for free. I post the pictures on my website and pray for sales. I get the occasional "so and so referred me to you, are you available to shoot...." My business is growing and the most important part is it's still fun! Good luck!!!
Doug and Cathy
www.goldenstarphoto.com
http://www.facebook.com/artist.goldenstarphoto?ref=hl
Many of the parents from Little League ask if I do portraits as well.
This year I am working on my off camera lighting skills as well as posing, planning shoots to get things to flow, and I have a few friends as my initial subjects.
I plan to expand my offerings outside of little league next year after I have my confidence and competence at a certain level.
I am also particularly interested in basic business head shots. I want to help my friends have professional photos on Linked-in, and I hope it will grow from there. No more passport photos or cut out of a family shot....I just have to help.....:-)
A couple of resources you might like to follow are:
http://parttimephoto.com/
http://goingpro2010.com/
Good luck!
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Before you jump into the business side, be sure and look at the business model, sales tax, and insurance requirements.
There are some resources on this forum, and I have found www.texasphotoforum.com to be very helpful in the business section as well.
The book by John Harrington : Best Business Practices for Photographers is also a great resource.
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yeah, i have been ridiculed for saying that before and No, i don't think you should go do something you hate however, there are many drawbacks to becoming a pro because you like taking pics.
Firstly, The market is overcrowded. That makes it especially hard for inexperienced newbies to break in and also tends to lead to a good long learning curve and time frame before you start making enough money to live off.
Next, pro photography is 90% business ( maybe more) and the balance is taking pics, IE, the reason your getting into this in the first place.
If the thought even crosses your mind that's an exaggerated figure, give the Idea away right now. It's not the job for you.
If you think being a good shooter is important in the Photo game, Go directly to jail, do not cross GO, do not collect your $200.
Also, the problem with getting into something because you like it as distinctly different to seeing a business opportunity in that market, is that your basically going in with the wrong mindset, essential to enjoy something rather to make money out of it. To this end you will tend to make excuses for business matters saying it's OK you didn't make money or whatever because you enjoy doing it etc. Unfortunately that don't get the bills paid and the bills always need paying.
So, I would say the idea of a Studio with Dad is a very bad one, the idea of a part time business is very sensible. Getting event work can be easy, depending on what you want to do or far more importantly, where you see an opportunity or a gap in the market.
After being ill for a few years, 2 years ago i saw potential in event work and started with one idea and fell into another. I started shooting local Pony clubs, little kids riding round on ( generally not so little) horses.
Last year i covered the biggest comp in the country.
Never again.
No Money in that at all. I'm sticking to the little Kids at the local Pony Clubs, thats where the profit if not the glory is!
For something like this, I would look at the competition and asses the market in how many clients to how many shooters and if there is an opportunity, start there.
You can introduce yourself to the committee ( always a good idea in this day and age of do gooders and paranoids) and shoot some events to practice if you r not up to doing them cold.
You can then cover whatever is going and offer the images for sale.
The good thing about events is you can see the work coming. Events are advertised online or known within the organization and you can get in there. things like portrait work is not as easy to target so events have that advantage.
Keep your eye out as you go for other things you can cover and see what works out best and go after the $$.
The most important thing is the drive and determination and as already mentioned, BUSINESS SKILLS.
Do yourself a favor, make a rule that for every hour you look at photo forums or read books or magazines etc, you will spend the same amount of tiaqaqaqqme on busineess education. Do that and you will have a successful photo biz no problem.
Glort could NOT be any more correct, unless he made it 95% business, 5% shutter actuations. That would probably be closer to the mark.
John
Canon shooter
By the way, I would consider taking a course. You'll be surprised how much you can still learn and the self discipline of doing the exercises will help you become a more all round photographer. Ziggy's idea is good too - see if you can be useful to a working pro as a second shooter or intern.
I don't think finding customers is that difficult, at least not around here. I get asked regularly by people who generally have no idea even whether I am any good but see me around with a big lens or have heard that I do it. Lots of people think there is no skill involved as long as you have the right kit. I am not often tempted to say yes, partly because I know I am not good enough, but mostly because I want to keep photography as a hobby.
This doesn't make sense to me.
Kcui, being a part time professional photographer on the side has been very rewarding and fun for me. And, pretty easy. Some talent, a Smugmug pro account and good gear is pretty much all you need. Some people do this and eventually have to quit their full-time job because the demand for their talents becomes too great. This happens because they are good shooters. Their reputation travels by word of mouth and wins them business. These people are not bitter and are having fun. These people, of course, are also quite lucky and it's not like that happens to everybody who starts out like us.
I'm not there yet, but I'm not really trying to be. I'm not sure I'd enjoy it full-time for some of the reasons stated about business and admin and hassle and busting your butt to put food on the table. If it happens organically, then great. If it doesn't, I still have a good career (not in photography) and a fun hobby that pays for itself and then some.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
There's no shame, and best, almost no risk in having a paid hobby, or growing your business as a part time professional photographer. If you don't let yourself sweat the small stuff, if you give yourself the chance to mess up and learn as you go, you'll enjoy the heck out of the experience.
I've been a part time pro for 11 years now. For the past few years, the four hours a week I spend with my photography business pays more in-pocket than the 40 hours a week my day job (journalist) does.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with Glort.
Getting paid to do something you love is the fountain of youth. It's invigorating, challenging, and rewarding both financially and personally.
The market is not overcrowded, it's apathetic - the grognards are boring and self-righteous, the 'noobs' are just dabbling anyway. There is vast opportunity to break into the market by being exciting, friendly, and exposing people to fun and affordable photography. Work ethic alone will take you far beyond the overeducated and under-committed would-be pros supposedly 'flooding' the market.
Most markets are sorely underserved, regardless of the number of photographers in town.
The better your art, the easier it is to market yourself, and the easier it is to sell more after the shoot. By no means do you have to be a great artist to start doing profitable business right away, just like McDonald's doesn't have to sell the best hamburger in town to make money. Grow as you go - as your art improves, so will your client base and bottom line. Earn it.
I enjoy the heck out of being a photographer, and I enjoy the heck out of making money at it. Maybe certain personality types can't do both, but don't let anyone (including me) tell you what you can and can't do - you learn what works for you while doing the work. If you persevere through the challenges, you give yourself the chance to sculpt your business and balance your needs as an artist and as a business owner, whatever those unique needs may be.
I'll fully agree with Glort on this: try to invest your time equally between studying the art of photography and the business of it. It's easy to blow four hours reading tutorials and playing in Photoshop - for most artists, it's a lot harder to do the same with a good marketing book. I suggest starting with books by John Jantsch and Michael Port - if you apply what you learn from just those two authors, you'll be light years ahead of other start-ups.
You have a great set of gear, I checked out your web site and your art is lovely, you're asking advice and studying how to do business right - you've got all the ingredients to break into the market. I think it's a great idea to work with your father as well, it could turn out to be one of the most satisfying ventures you guys could undertake together.
Starting a professional photography business on a part time basis is what I advocate for anyone interested in trying their hand at making money from their art. The risk is minimal, the potential rewards are immeasurable. I write about this extensively on my blog (PartTimePhoto.com - thank you for the link, MomaZunk!) because I see so little encouragement out there for amateur photogs trying to turn pro. You have a great opportunity to be a blessing both financially for your family and artistically for your community - have fun with it!
It's one thing to be a "lifestyle" part-time photographer, shooting children, etc. Event photography can be done part-time, but it's much more busy and more business than anything else.
John
Canon shooter
Thanks Zet!
I still have a lot to learn, a lot of my earlier stuff is very over-processed, but I definitely like mucking around in the software.
@James, Jack, Glort, John, et. al.
Thanks for the comments, I appreciate the feedback.
I should stress that, at least initially, this would be purely a part time venture for me to make extra money and have fun on the side. Whether or not I am successful financially is really a secondary concern (and probably contrary to Glort's advice) to me. I actually do pretty well at my day-job, and I am fortunate enough to have enough time and capital to (slowly) invest in my photography activities. Unless I was very successful at photography would I make a move to being full-time.
Based on everyone's feedback, it seems like part-time / working with local pro's would be the best option for me right now. I could get more experience, break into the market, and if things take off, so be it, but I would be content with the part-time work.
I have little experience running a business, and I realize that it is no cakewalk. It is not something would would jump into on a whim.
Thanks for the comments everyone.
http://kristophercui.com
Yeah, this is true! Because marketing yourself and who you know are more important than this!
This is true in a lot of businesses though and not necessarily unique to photography.
http://kristophercui.com
If you don't even want to make money in this, all you're going to do is undercut the professionals who are making a living doing this and killing the event photography business in your area so that neither you nor anyone else can make a profit.
It's kind of like deciding to open a hot dog business with no desire to make a profit, and having everyone come to you. Next thing you know, the profitable hot dog business in town goes bankrupt, you decide to stop losing money, and suddenly your town has no hot dog shops anymore. Now your town's fellow residents are upset because there are no more hot dogs available, the previous hot dog shop's owners are upset because they lost their home, and you're wondering what happened.
If you don't mean to make money, then KEEP IT A HOBBY. You'll do yourself, your "customers", and the local pro a great service.
When I started 4 years ago, it was because the local "pros" weren't pros, were turning out below-standard fares, actually taking money and not delivering product, and ruining everyone. I came up with a way to be profitable (mind you, the first 2 years were spent spending most money back into infrastructure) and decided how to do it such that customers and event hosts were astounded by how I operated. In fact, I had to turn down events due to poor planning on the event hosts' parts (don't try to get a photographer 4 days before hand) as well as family matters (wife was due in late Feb). Next season, I expect to be busy almost every weekend from October through April.
John
Canon shooter
The bottom line is, there will ALWAYS be more and more freebie hobbyists out there who are going to spend 6-18 months of their life attempting to "go pro". It's just the nature of the digital photography revolution.
For every ONE photographer out there who decides "ya know, I'm just gonna keep this a hobby, and refuse when my friends ask me to take their portraits / shoot their wedding" ...there will be FIVE MORE photographers out there who dive to stick their foot in that door.
The GOOD NEWS, if it can be good news, is that I think we HAVE just about reached the saturation point for "18-month life cycle" business attempts and failures. DSLRs have pretty much saturated every middle-class etc. community in the world, so it can't get much worse. Soon, for every one photographer who spends 6-18 months of their life being a free professional, when they quit there will be only one to step in to fill their place. We may even see a decline in the phenomenon, but it will be slight and I think the industry is going to remain changed forever.
The bottom line is going to be, if you want to be a successful professional, especially a bread-winning full-time professional, then you simply have to focus on EVERY aspect of the business in order to survive. Good customer service, quick turnaround, marketing tactics, etc. Worry too much about who is shooting from the sidelines for free, and it will drive you crazy. (Although, a contract that says nobody else is allowed to SELL photos, for example if we're talking about children's sports, might be a good idea.) Or for weddings, or portraits, similar contract terms can be arranged.
Anways, good luck to the OP. I've been a full-time wedding and portrait photographer for about 4 years now and it has been one bumpy ride. I honestly can't recommend it to anyone who currently has a decent day job with a promising future, even if you think it's mundane or not very fulfilling. Being a full-time photographer can drain the life right out of you 10x more rapidly, let me tell you! The best thing I ever did for myself and my business was, I took a small break, I slowed everything down, got "within my means", and teamed up with other professionals with expertise in business management, marketing, sales, accounting, etc.
(edit) And, if only for the sake of the OP's sanity and personal life, I WILL strongly agree with John's statement: If you don't mean to make money, then KEEP IT A HOBBY.
I say this not so much because I worry about pros going out of business, but because I'd hate to see a photographer get sucked into the downward spiral of trying to make a hobby pay your bills.
Take care,
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Couldn't agree with this more!
I can't get my head around why anyone would want to do something that is completely at odds with the definition of what they are supposedly doing in the first place.
It's like saying I want to learn sky diving but I don't wat to jump out of a plane.
If people want to take pics and aren't interested in making money out of it, instead of stuffing it up for people whom do want treat it seriously, why not go do some shoots for charitys and help people who can really use it and without stepping on anyones toes?
I'm sure you would find no lack of shoots to do and probably get a lot more appreciation and thanks for your efforts than you would otherwise. If money isn't the issue, go with that all the way and help some deserving charitys.
I don't see how you CAN'T say it isn't a threat to legit businesses!
There is a woman in my city that gets around taking half assed pics and undercharging and giving them away that regularly takes work away from me. I ring up about covering events and I get told they already have a shooter and that she is giving the pics away or " Has the cheapest prices". No denying that! I wonder if she even charges printing costs.
The offshoot of this is I get people coming to me on occasion and having a whinge because i do charge on a business like basis and they tell me that such and such only charges whatever. I asked the last person that was telling me this how many pictures they have bought off her and they said none, they didn't like them.
I am denied the opportunity to make money by someone who isn't making money either and therefore wasting a chance for me to better provider for my family. I don't mind loosing out on a job to someone who isn't undermining my business and is getting ahead themselves but these others drive me nuts.
I am even hearing now that they think this twit is coming and then she decides she can't be bothered and dosen't show, again, stuffing things up for me and others because worthwhile opportunitys go begging.
If this woman wasn't self centred, she would go and do some charity work and help people that could use it and be a lot more appreciated. She would also promote the business/ industry instead of undermining it.
I will help people that may end up competeing with me but I refuse to help those that will undermine what I do.
Exactly. They always say that, like it's a good thing - "I'm not in this for the money...".
An ironic but unmistakeable definition of how little they really understand what they propose doing and how it affects others.
James - love your blog. It's refreshing to find a photographer who also knows how to write. I have linked to you at my V&B Photog blog.
www.SaraPiazza.com - Edgartown News - Trad Diary - Facebook
I guess here's what my experience has been so far and some things I've learned:
-Nobody buys art. Well, not nobody, but it's just insanely hard to sell art photos. I ordered a bunch of prints and have been doing these local art shows, and meet some people that really like my photos. They'll come up and ask me a bunch of questions about them, how I took them, and my favorite "you did that in photoshop right?" (no, no I did not), we chat for a few minutes, then they just say "yea, that's cool man" and walk away.
-Word of mouth is the best way to land a paying gig. Any event people have been willing to pay me for have been either people I know already, or people that know people I know. I have a gig coming up at an anime and gaming convention because my sister is on the event staff, and at prior events occasionally the staffers would take a photo or two with a point and shoot but she just suggested hiring me for the day as a dedicated photographer and that was that. I also did a portrait shoot for a friend, she put some of the photos on her desk at work, and now her coworkers that saw them are interested. Just meet a lot of people, tell everyone that will listen that you're a photographer and hand out business cards like they're going out of style.
-Carry a camera around in public, preferably with a big, fancy looking lens. Act like you're important. Total strangers have asked me about what I'm shooting or if I work for the newspaper, and I'm at least making some kind of potential contacts when really I'm just wandering around the park because I'm bored. Better than nothing.
-Lots of people love pictures of sunsets, flowers and puppies. I hate pictures of sunsets, flowers, and puppies. People who listen to The Dead Kennedys and watch Korean horror movies like my photos. Seek out the people (besides other photographers) who dig your style. I noticed you seem to like nature and landscape stuff, so maybe try to meet and network with people that are in to hiking, camping, fishing, those kinds of things as they'll be more likely to be in to your photography.
-I wouldn't sweat having a lack of formal education in photography. Your portfolio is your credentials.
Disclaimer: this is only my own personal experience and I in no way profess that these lessons will apply to anyone else or that this post is of any value.
Glort and I are probably on opposite sides of the 'how to go pro' argument, but the truth is, nobody has the perfect answer for your situation. We don't know your market, we don't know your talents, we don't know your competition, we don't know nearly enough to speak in absolutes - and even if we did, it would still just be conjecture. It's all talk until you put the rubber on the road and take action.
Your path to success is to put your unique vision for your business directly ahead of you and do whatever it takes to hustle your way to that reality. Juke, jive, slip, slide, bob, weave, duck, shimmy and shake'n'bake past every challenge and failure you experience on that path. Allow your experience to steer you. Allow advice that really speaks to you, that inspires you, to help influence your decisions.
Fail fast, learn hard, keep going.
To paraphrase Patton, "A good plan violently executed today is far and away better than the perfect plan tomorrow."
My focus is in portrait photography, but in today's digital- and social-driven market, business is business - photographers like to pretend our industry is special, but it's not. If you create and present a greater value than 'the other guy,' you'll gain traction, and if you do right by people, you'll gain clients.
Value can be influenced by myriad factors, almost every one of which is within your control. Some take investments of time, some of money, and some you can improve on this very moment.
You don't "need" anything but a damn camera. You don't need more megapixels, more backup gear, more lights, more insurance, more pockets on your shooting vest, more lenses, more Marathon marketing materials, more education, more chapters in your business plan - all of this is trivial compared to the camera in your hands and the burning desire to do something valuable with it for other people. Let this guide and inform the choices you make, and you will grow your business.
No doubt, backups, good gear, and great marketing materials are all wonderful and valuable additions to your business - but necessity is what it is, and it is not these things.
F8 and Be There - like Molotov said, put your camera around your neck and get out there, be where your market is. Talk to people, imbue yourself with their culture, their contacts, their interests, their wants and needs. I don't care if you're shooting daycares or seniors or flag football or prom or whatever - learn your market, preferably with a camera in your hands. You will make inroads.
Let me rail on one big myth before I hush:
Myth: If you don't run your business how I tell you you should, you're going to ruin the whole bloody industry.
Welcome to the free market economy. I will undercut you, I will out-market you, I will out-hustle you, I will out-shoot you, I will outwork you, I will outlast you, I will have more stamina, I will have more speed, I will fail faster than you, I will recover faster than you, I will succeed faster than you, I will network my way right past you, I will spend less than you, I will profit more than you, I will redefine the market, and I will rewrite the rules of the game until there's only two players - me, and all the rest of you.
Make as much or as little money as you want, Kcui - that's nobody's business but your own. Put every other photographer in town right out of business. Only to the grognards is this an immoral act - in every other industry on this planet, it's called smart business.
In the newspaper industry, where my day job lies, that's how you take over a market - sweep in, print more pages, provide better content, halve the competition's ad rates, give away free papers, network like hell, build relationships, out-hustle the competition, be everywhere they are not, and operate at a loss until you put them out of business or buy them out. Now with dominant market share, you begin the process of raising prices and tightening expenses while building a business less permeable than your former competition.
As one politician in my hometown would say, "It's just bidness."
From what you've written Kcui, it doesn't at all sound like your intention is to upend the whole photography industry or put anyone out of business, and I don't think it's a valid concern for you or anyone else anyway. It sounds like right now, you're making $0 with your photography, and you have a desire to make that number grow. Get yourself right legally (permits, taxes, sales taxes, DBA's, whatever you need), and test the waters. Play. Have fun with it. Owning a business is nowhere near as 'hard' or miserable as many business owners would have you believe. Like I said before, you have a perfect storm of opportunities to make your business successful - go forth, do work, be blessed.
Not alltogether. From what I read in your post and on your websire, I think I'd be pretty happy for a lot of people whom want to be shooters to follow your advice to teh letter. I'm sure it would eventually ease a lot of pressure on the market.
No Disagreement there!
Not that I have a lot of experience in war which I take it was the authours speciality area, but in my experience in photography, going in halfassed and stuffing something up because you didn't plan or think it through properly is going to make life very difficult late on. Reputations are hard to change... especialy bad ones.
Well I'm not so sure about that.
I can't thing of any other industry where people are prepared to work hard and call it fun. Never heard of an accountant saying he dosen't care about making money cause he likes what he's doing, Nor a truck driver, mechanic, dentist or anyone else. In photography that is an everyday thing. Of course in other professions your not allwoed to run riot on the public without training or licencing like you are with photography.
From those regards, I'd say the industry is in fact pretty special.
Correct!
Of course if you are just cheap and go in ill equipped, withoug the eqperience to do the job and stuff it up, you;ll gain a reputation that will repel clients like skunk water.
I agree with most of that , up to a couple of factors anyway.
I can't see how it could be possibly said that someone starting out as a part timer dosen't need more education. IMHO, they need that MORE than anything else at all! ..... Except maybe insurance.
If a person was taking on work as a shooter and had no education in the field, no backup gear or fundamental equipment and something went wrong, I'd say you could never have enough insurance!!!
If you didn't want to loose everything you own and be in debt for the rest of your life of course.
Of course the scenario might just be that your equipment got lost or damaged and there is no time for repair and you don't have enough money for replacement If your booked for a job like a wedding, without insurance the most valueable thing to you might be a moving van and a fake passport.
As for more chapters in the busines plan, I'd agree there to... that is surmising they have a business plan to start with. As the overwhealming majority of wanna be shooters are fixated on the equipment side of things, I find it extremely unlikley that the peoson wanting to start out would ever have a business plan if they have any relationship to the profile of the person that would fit the picture your painting.
Of course in a small town that is likley to tread on peoples toes, not just in the photo industry but in the commounity in general. People tend to have their niche to earn their living by and when someone comes along and upsets that apple cart, no one tends to look at it kindly.
Professional business practices would be one thing, Undercutting and hustling would be quite something else.
Of course redefineing the market and making a me and them situation in a larger town is really going to be a feat on several levels.
And hope to hell that your town doesn't have more than 1000 people in it so you won't be up against anyone with an established reputation wand money behind them that will have a bigger warchest and more resources to draw from. You also want to hope your town dosen't ahve a few more wannabe shooters like yourself whom will be trying the same things to put you out of business so they can be the monopoly. That could get real expensive real fast. Of course then when you have finished your price war, you have educated the whole town to expect below cost prices and will have the fun of trying to justify why things were 1/4 or less the price 12 months ago.
Good luck with that.
Of course there dosne't tend to be 10 newspapers in teh one town or people coming along every week wanting to start one up like there is int he photo business.
Newspapers tend to have people with a bit more money behind them as well as being started by people whom already typicaly have many years experience in the business and know what they are doing rather than learning as they go.
I would certainly think it may be easier to make a newspaper easier to fend of the occasional competition than a photo business that can have the same tactics applied against it that one applied to get the existing businees out of business when they wanted to take over and on a virtually weekly basis.
Of course having established oneself in the business either recently or longer term, you have also probably made investments and gone into commitments or debts which have to be serviced. Getting into a price war with someone that has no more liabilites than gas money and procession could be a bad position to be fighting from and one could easily find they are standing behind the guy they put out of business in the unemployment cue.
But didn't you just advise in your very last paragraph to do just that, put other people out of buisiness?
In any case, someone operating a business with out regard to making money is very likley to do that by undercutting other shooters.
Yes, absoloutley!
By all means do that. Don't forget insurances especially. If you go in gun blazing with no education or backup gear and something goes wrong, Insurance may be the most important thing you have.
After meeting all your legal and wise business setup expenses then see how much you have left to put into loss leader promotions and a warchest to take on the other established shooters in your area.
You may find that you either have or a lot more inclined to start making profit than just always seeing red ink on the books.
I spose if you are playing part time tiddly winks its a lot easier than if you are trying to make a living out if it, that would stand to logical reason of course.
Starting one with no experience or proper resources and backups would add an element of difficulty as well as a substantial element of risk however.
There are certainly a lot of opportunities out there even in the crowded photography market. Likewise there are just as many pitfalls and potential for disaster.
To increase the chances of being successful i would stronly sugest eduacting oneself as much as possible as well as gaining practical experience and knowledge.
The first one that caught my eye is the "you dont need to be a good photographer.....TOTAL BS! While you may get be able to market and get in it will be short lived when you cant produce the level of photos people expect from a professional so the first thing is " Is you work good enough?
For the getting in on the league by taking pictures of your kids on a team then trying to get contracted by a league thats all hogwash too. No league hires or contracts a single photographer. They may ask you to cover a few things here and there if you are extreemely lucky but remember there are 1000 other parents trying to so the same thing. Then they will wnat a dirt cheap price and expect you to donate a portion of the dirt cheap price back to the league. While I love the smugmug accounts they net almost no sales for me. I tried that avenue and it failed misreably. My enitre online sales for 2010 didnt even meet the $200 minimum to get paid. There weer plenty of viewers and plenty stealinbg low res images with watermarks and all. Got news for you , the protected function does prevent a right click and save but it does not prevent it going into the IE temp files where they can easily be retrieved.
Finding a unique niche to fill is the ultimate answer. Youth sports photogs around here are a dime a dozen and they cover events by setting a camera to P mode and handing it to a high school kid and telling them to just shoot a bunch of every kid. Well the level of quality images you get using this approach are not very high quality at all. Ive found my niche and shared it with a few others that do this for a living but not in my market area. I turn 10X the profits for 10X less time invested. It takes a lot of wasted time shooting every kid on the field, the PP work, uploading etc to yelid little to no results. A bad day at a soccer tournament for me is netting $1000 with no more than 2-3 hours of work/day. Parents with DSLRs on the sidelines are multiplying every year. I get funny looks when I stroll past them with a 400 2.8 and MKIV, spend 20-30 minutes shooting then wander back off to my booth. On the way by Im used to hearing all sorts of comments. People as a whole are stupid creatures. If business is slow Ill walk out with the gear and just snap off a few here and there (my logo is on the back of my vest) and usually get a line following me back wanting to get their kids photographed. Ive already said too much. Professional photography is a cut throat business these days with every tom dick and harry trying to break into it with medocre and often horrible work. I laugh to myself when I see someone showing up on a heavily overcast day or close to dusk with a consumer body and an f5.6 lens.
Im not trying to be an ass here, Either you have it or you dont and a looking at you gear list its nice for a hobbyist but wont cut it in the professional world, no offfense intended..... I just call it like I see it. While a 7D is better than a 50D for sports its no MKIIN or MKIII or MKIV and i didnt see a single long fast prime. To cover soccer you would need a 1D body and minimum of a 300 2.8 for short sided fields and preferably a 400 2.8 as well, the 100-400 wont cut it unless every game is prefectly lit in full sun.
John Patrick and I share a lot of the same thoughts.
Now you can dive into wedding photography where the wanabes are a dime a dozen and people are hiring who ever gives the lowest price.
Awwww Shucks!
I have been using a 7d and 100-400 for over 12 months now and business has been growing the whole time. I wish you hadn't told me they were no good! Before that I was using a 40D and I still sometimes use my 70-200. Only prime I have is a 50mm actually.
So from what your saying, all I have to do is get a 1D and a 300/2.8 and I can just shoot a few hours a day and make a minimum of a grand a day???
Awesome!
Didn't realise it was that easy!
I take it that would work for equine events as well?
BTW Justin, Did you happen to be on a Veg forum a while back?
Seen the name there, just wondering if it were a co-incidence or you were into that as well?
Agreed.
You can't say this is hogwash. I did it. Except I didn't even try. A parent on the team forwarded my pics to the league president and recommended me.
Mine does.
In my 3 years, I've seen precisely one other white lens on a 40D and one Nikkor 70-200/2.8 on a D300. The team with the grandma shooting the D300 didn't buy anything from me because she was giving away CDs to the whole team and she was shooting all season - she was bound to get some winners. That's fine.
Then there are a handful of yokels with Rebels and 70-300s or 18-55s standing outside the fences, and some posers standing up with a monopod attached to the camera body. I welcome these people because I know their shots are going to suck because they're standing up, getting lousy perspective. I also know they will probably have a better appreciation of the shots that I will get. Kind of like how I as a mediocre guitar player can better appreciate a good one and am more likely to buy their music.
Yes. That's just the facts. Parents are up to their armpits in photos of their kids from every school grade, every club, and every season of every sport, not even to mention the thousands they take on their own. They're not going to pay $20 for a 5x7 they are going to display in their home for one year.
Maybe you said it's hogwash because you can't make a living off this model, and that's true. That's where we part timers come in. Now, you probably can make a living shooting just T&I for entire leagues in one day or two each. That's nice for the photographer but kids and parents hate this and they hate the people who do it.
That's how I got this job. I shoot T&I and action, and everybody loves it. My 9yo son actually asked me if I was going to do the baseball photos again this year. I thought maybe he was asking because he didn't like the time it takes me away from him, or that maybe it embarrassed him. When I said yes he said "cool". His friends tell him how cool the photos are!
Mine was almost $6k for 2010. Not a living, but pretty awesome for a hobby.
Yep, or screenshots. This is why you need a good watermark in the middle with your url on it.
That's great. I'd love to hear about it, I'm not near you.
Nice. A 400/2.8 is out of reach for me, but I suppose I could rent. I did rent a 300/2.8 last spring for Baseball and it definitely has swagger. I bought a 70-200/2.8II last fall for soccer and I think it got noticed fairly well.
Agreed. Those lenses work pretty well in good light though. A 100-400L has nice bokeh at 400mm. I had one but sold it because of the speed I need at 5:30pm games.
I went from a 1DIIN to a 7D. My thoughts on that with pics are here.
I went from a 40D to a 1DIIN to a 7D. The 7D is a lot closer to the 1DIIN in AF performance. People wax nostalgic for the 1DII(N)'s AF to the point that you'd think it had a 100% hit rate. It did not. Maybe the 1DIV is much better, I don't know, I'd assume it is for the price.
Go check out threads by Timberland on dpreview's 7D forum if you want to be humbled.
I shot youth soccer last fall with my 7D and 70-200/2.8II. It got the job done well. Sure a 300/2.8 would be better, but it's not the bare minimum. High School and up might be a different story on full size fields.
Mostly agreed. On a camera where ISO 1600 is still good IQ you can get away with a 100-400L in early evening sunlight or midday overcast. But I'm very happy I sold my 100-400L for the 70-200II.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.