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Open letter to Smugmug
davidmedina
Registered Users Posts: 55 Big grins
Hi Smugmug:
Recently you released the most anticipated and awaited update to Smugmug.
It was received, to put it mildly, with mixed reactions. And while it can be easy to dismiss those of us that are complaining about this update as "haters" or people that does not like change, I truly hope you avoid that temptation and hear us out. Most of us are not afraid of changes nor are haters. I think is clear that we have supported Smugmug by staying and patiently waiting for this upgrade.
I think that judging by how some are reacting to the new Smugmug it is obvious that they are many upset people and it has been almost as bad as when Smugmug announced the price hike.
I think that the actual upgrade to the current Smugmug is quite good. It makes a lot easier to get a basic website going with out having to mess with coding. But...
and that is a big but. Pro users expected much more. We expected that what we have been asking and begging for many years would be finally fixed in this released. And it was not.
Most Pros don't have a need to have a "website" using Smugmug as they have their own custom made website. You gave us something of very limited use for most of us and not really what we were asking.
This update seems more directed to amateur photog or starting pros than established Pros. That would have been fine if our requests would have been taken care too. But they weren't.
I think that is one of the dualities that has always bothered me from Smugmug, that you tried to create a product for both. But while for the amateur and starting Pro it may be fine, for advance pros is not as it lacks many features that we need.
Honesty, the way the release was handle was very amateurish and pitiful. No documentation nor tutorials of any kind. Bugs. things not working properly.
It Could have been avoided easily by having documentation and tutorial ready WITH the release.
The fact that there we none makes me conclude that Smugmug was not ready to release it or that it was rushed.
Maybe because you guys have been using it so much you thought it was easier that it really is.
That created problems because we were left to figure it out by ourselves without any guidance at all.
Yes, there are some saying that they were able to figure it out right away... Of course they did. Have you seen what they have made? simple website using the pre-made templates. Nothing really custom.
That is what I mean when I say it was aimed at Amateur or beginning pro. Their needs are different and more basic. It is not that we could not figure out how to do those basic things but that we wanted to make things more custom. That is what we could not figure out and are frustrated by it. People that are having major issues are Smugmug's clients that have and have paid for custom websites.
I do not know how many bugs there are of how many things are not working, but the fact that the New Smugmug lacks documentation that tells us how to properly do thing can cause the perception of bugs and that things do not work right. You only have yourself to blame for that.
Give you one example: categories, subcategories and folders. The new folder system is more flexible and better (although still don't solve one of my biggest complaints about Smugmug - able to upload more that one gallery at a time) but because there are no documentation as to how go about creating new galleries I became frustrated (and upset) when I could not find familiar terms. I could not upload the same way as I use to but had no way of knowing what was different or what I had to do. It tooks longer than 12 hours to get a response from CS and I only got an explanation of the difference but not how to work it now. What am I suppose to do, wait for another answer in another 12 hours?
As a matter of fact, I dread having to do anything with Smugmug since the new upgrade because I am not sure how am I suppose to do it now.
It is sad that poor planning and execution has allow and foster this flood of ill-feeling toward Smugmug.
I am yet to see that Smugmug is addressing our concerns. It feels like we are been dismissed as complainers, people afraid of change or "haters". We are none. If we are complaining is because we have reasons for it.
What do I think Smugmug Should do?
1. Immediately release the documentation and tutorial that adress not only how the new website creation works but how we are now to do things under the new system that we used to do under the old system.
2. A time table of when our features request will be done. Not someday or soon, actual dates and a list of what features will be implemented. I do not want to hear what Smugmug would like to do but what is currently working to implement.
3. Posts in this forum are not enough. Smugmug should email every Smugmug Pro user directly. Not every Smugmug pro users participate in this forum. We need to understand what has happened, why what we have been asking - more la begging - for years have not been included and what Smugmug is currently doing about it.
Hope that clarifies that we are not haters or opposed to progress, but paying customers that require certain features that are not been attended. We need to know where Smugmug stand so we can decide if Smugmug is in our future and something we can continue to support or if we should look for an alternative.
Awaiting your response...
David Medina
Recently you released the most anticipated and awaited update to Smugmug.
It was received, to put it mildly, with mixed reactions. And while it can be easy to dismiss those of us that are complaining about this update as "haters" or people that does not like change, I truly hope you avoid that temptation and hear us out. Most of us are not afraid of changes nor are haters. I think is clear that we have supported Smugmug by staying and patiently waiting for this upgrade.
I think that judging by how some are reacting to the new Smugmug it is obvious that they are many upset people and it has been almost as bad as when Smugmug announced the price hike.
I think that the actual upgrade to the current Smugmug is quite good. It makes a lot easier to get a basic website going with out having to mess with coding. But...
and that is a big but. Pro users expected much more. We expected that what we have been asking and begging for many years would be finally fixed in this released. And it was not.
Most Pros don't have a need to have a "website" using Smugmug as they have their own custom made website. You gave us something of very limited use for most of us and not really what we were asking.
This update seems more directed to amateur photog or starting pros than established Pros. That would have been fine if our requests would have been taken care too. But they weren't.
I think that is one of the dualities that has always bothered me from Smugmug, that you tried to create a product for both. But while for the amateur and starting Pro it may be fine, for advance pros is not as it lacks many features that we need.
Honesty, the way the release was handle was very amateurish and pitiful. No documentation nor tutorials of any kind. Bugs. things not working properly.
It Could have been avoided easily by having documentation and tutorial ready WITH the release.
The fact that there we none makes me conclude that Smugmug was not ready to release it or that it was rushed.
Maybe because you guys have been using it so much you thought it was easier that it really is.
That created problems because we were left to figure it out by ourselves without any guidance at all.
Yes, there are some saying that they were able to figure it out right away... Of course they did. Have you seen what they have made? simple website using the pre-made templates. Nothing really custom.
That is what I mean when I say it was aimed at Amateur or beginning pro. Their needs are different and more basic. It is not that we could not figure out how to do those basic things but that we wanted to make things more custom. That is what we could not figure out and are frustrated by it. People that are having major issues are Smugmug's clients that have and have paid for custom websites.
I do not know how many bugs there are of how many things are not working, but the fact that the New Smugmug lacks documentation that tells us how to properly do thing can cause the perception of bugs and that things do not work right. You only have yourself to blame for that.
Give you one example: categories, subcategories and folders. The new folder system is more flexible and better (although still don't solve one of my biggest complaints about Smugmug - able to upload more that one gallery at a time) but because there are no documentation as to how go about creating new galleries I became frustrated (and upset) when I could not find familiar terms. I could not upload the same way as I use to but had no way of knowing what was different or what I had to do. It tooks longer than 12 hours to get a response from CS and I only got an explanation of the difference but not how to work it now. What am I suppose to do, wait for another answer in another 12 hours?
As a matter of fact, I dread having to do anything with Smugmug since the new upgrade because I am not sure how am I suppose to do it now.
It is sad that poor planning and execution has allow and foster this flood of ill-feeling toward Smugmug.
I am yet to see that Smugmug is addressing our concerns. It feels like we are been dismissed as complainers, people afraid of change or "haters". We are none. If we are complaining is because we have reasons for it.
What do I think Smugmug Should do?
1. Immediately release the documentation and tutorial that adress not only how the new website creation works but how we are now to do things under the new system that we used to do under the old system.
2. A time table of when our features request will be done. Not someday or soon, actual dates and a list of what features will be implemented. I do not want to hear what Smugmug would like to do but what is currently working to implement.
3. Posts in this forum are not enough. Smugmug should email every Smugmug Pro user directly. Not every Smugmug pro users participate in this forum. We need to understand what has happened, why what we have been asking - more la begging - for years have not been included and what Smugmug is currently doing about it.
Hope that clarifies that we are not haters or opposed to progress, but paying customers that require certain features that are not been attended. We need to know where Smugmug stand so we can decide if Smugmug is in our future and something we can continue to support or if we should look for an alternative.
Awaiting your response...
David Medina
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Thank you David for a very well reasoned, non-flaming letter which sums up most of what I am experiencing.
One difference is I''m not a f/t professional who's asking for more/better sales packaging tools. All I care about at this point is ease of use and aesthetics. I was never unhappy with old smugmug except perhaps the difficulty in customizing and of course, the recent price leap. I stayed because of my own inertia; not having the time to start over somewhere. Yet I welcomed the much touted "new smugmug" to bring me up to the 21st Century.
Sadly, after playing around with it for about an hour, I gave up in frustration. I think Smugmug takes for granted that it's users will intuitively divine how to learn a totally new system, without step by step instructions. (I did look at some of the videos the other day. They were more sales than instruction) Sorry, it's not happening.
Even simple things like changing the nomenclature.
"FOLDER"...was that the old category???
Will viewers see something called "FOLDERS"(I hope not)
What do I do first here for workflow, given that I have dozens of galleries, maybe thousands of photos?
When will the "old smugmug" disappear, if ever?
If I hit the wrong button my mistake, will my half finished 'NEW' site go public?
How long do I have to get it all together
I'm not even alluding to all the reports of "bugs" I've read in this forum, because I couldn't even get far enough to see the bugs. Remember, I don't have hours and hours to spend on this(unlike the OP, I don't have my own website, this is it)
Why didn't smugmug roll this out to only some users, eg, letters a-d, so it could keep up w/the questions, bugs, etc?
I'm going to lay back for a while and see how this plays out. I have considered just zapping my whole site and uploading my images to another service where the product is "mature" and not in beta. The effort, it seems would be LESS than having to go through this minefield. Then again, inertia or maybe loyalty keeps me here.
They will tell us that they had some "beta" testers. But in my experience, "beta" testers are the "faithful flock".
The tech team is working behind the scenes and they have proven that they are efficient. many of the bugs are already fixed.
Just be patient, it's been what, a few days?
@lescrane: No chance. You have to click on unveil and TYPE the word "unveil" to make it go live. That would be a lot of accidental button pressing
http://www.canvas-of-light.com
http://canvas-of-light.smugmug.com/
Website
Thanks to both of you.
+1
whoALSE => Allen
One form of time travel is thru Captured Moments
lol
"tiny minority" How do you know? Do you have numbers to back that up? Don't you realize that is comments like yours what makes us more upset with Smugmug?
Your comment demonstrate what I mean by quickly dismissing us just because you do not agree with what we are saying. According to comments like yours we are not "patient enough" or "kind enough". That is not what in stake here.
Don't you think we have been more than patien? Don't you think we have given enough break?
Would you be as patience if you purchase some product at Best Buy and it came with half the part of, wrong parts and without instructions? You would be pissed and demand exchange of refund. How would you feel if you gave a contractor an advance for something and when he deliver what you paid for more than a year ago is incomplete and no instructions as to how to use it? You would be pissed and would not be showing "the patience" you know require of us.
Come on! Let's be fair and honest. Smugmug is not my friend. It is not your buddy, but a company delivering a product and a service. They asked for an advance and made some promises. They delivered a half baked product with no instructions, with missing parts and parts that are not working. And you are demanding me to be nice? I cannot be any nicer that what I was in my original post.
This post is not intended for the "faithful" to come and defend Smugmug. Please do not dismiss what we are saying. Let them respond or not.
I want the message of us - "the tiny" - minority to get to Smugmug. If they, not the "faithful" - dismiss u, them the message is clear and then Smugmug is not for us.
As an outsider (I left SM at the beginning of this year), I think Smugmug has really revealed who their target audience is: enthusiasts.
Blog: http://blog.scolephoto.com
Completely agree with everything you said. Specially the last sentence which is what I also believe.
I think it would be good for them to come out an declare who their target audience is. That way everyone knows what to expect and what they are getting into.
Thanks for mentioning the "unveil" process - I've been looking everywhere for an answer to that. I haven't been having as good of luck as you had in your conversion. Took a peek at your smug site and I must say very nice work. Can I ask you which style or template you started with? Nice end result.
I should mention that you have the flickering issue in the slideshow mode that I reported elsewhere - flickering on every image, but so far I've only seen it on my three iMac/MBPro screens but not on my old Dell screen. Don't know why the difference. Just FYI.
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If I'm not mistaken, websites are supposed to be running faultlessly at a minimum of 99.9%. The bug that changes gallery names and link addresses even for those who have not migrate took at least 2 days but more like 3. That's below 99.5%.
I'm sure they are working hard with only 34 of them looking at one too many bugs since the launch. Has there been enough user testing before launching? Were there sufficient testing? Was the test sample big enough to reflect reality?
whoALSE => Allen
One form of time travel is thru Captured Moments
David,
We have heard you. I have created a feature request forum. If you have a feature request please enter it in there.
Thanks.
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I've been a SmugMug Pro user since I don't know when. They have delivered huge, with uptimes undreamed of in the past.
That said, I use another provider for my prints (Fine Art) website and still keep this one for my editorial clients. The other provider is more expensive, but much easier to set up, and with some very famous clients, albeit without the limitless options here if you happen to be a programmer, which a lot of the users are not.
I've already launched my site on the new SmugMug. There are some issues but it is a huge step forward, towards what I get from my other provider. Not as easy to use but still, a huge step in the right direction.
I haven't even emailed the crew on the bugs I've found because I know they are busy, and with 30 years experience in IT I know to wait until the basic stuff people complain about gets out of the way.
It's a huge step in the right direction. It just needs to be made even easier, and maybe less options is not such a bad thing when you do that.
The trick is to have really solid, bug free templates that are easy to set up. THAT, is the key.
Best,
JAS
The new site NOT FINISHED YET!: http://www.josesuroeditorial.com
Thanks JAS
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I think this is the important bit. We veterans are used to having to measure the time it takes for new features to be implemented in years (literally. Foreign currency transactions anyone?)
It's great that shiny new Smug will allow speedier development. But I think it would be great if Smug gave us a steer on what stuff we won't have to wait for long on. Happy to sign NDAs, whatever.
Neither is it that the rest of us are having a blissful, smooth transition, or that none of us have more professional needs. I too am a wedding photographer with lots of specific, yet-to-be-delivered feature requests.
It has nothing to do with that. You're just in overdrive right now. You're going way too fast and expecting instant results, attention, or appeasement. You're not going to get all that, all at once.
These guys worked damn hard to meet this primary deadline, and it was a huge accomplishment. As they alluded, meeting the goal involved lots of hard work, tough decisions, and serious amounts of sleep-deprivation. And within hours of the release, you started writing scathing post after scathing post about your disappointments, about their failures? Saying that you don't care how hard they worked, since they didn't deliver what you wanted? And you think they're going to give you an NDA or make you a beta tester with insider info on their development? The squeaky wheel may get the oil, but the early adopter always gets the bugs, and if you want special treatment it's better to be friendly and positive...
Even if you don't expect immediate fixes or new features, and all you want is open communication and answers, my advice is to be polite and patient. You might think that your tone and attitude are necessary to get your point across, but it just doesn't work that way. You're cutting people down and slamming the work they've done. Yes, you get their attention. What then?
The best thing you can possibly do is just clearly itemize the features / changes you NEED, post them, and give people a chance to catch their breath and respond. Which, to your credit, you seem to have finally done in a concise way here in this post. Great! Now give them a chance to get a feel for the whole situation, and to respond when they are ready.
This is just the beginning. It may look like a mere facelift, but as they have said multiple times- this is an entire new foundation that is going to allow them to rapidly improve and add new features at a much faster speed than in the past few years.
Yes, this was mostly a visual change, and as such it will seem to appeal more to the prosumers with un-professional aspirations. But it's probably just the tip of the iceberg. If that vague hope / promise isn't enough for you, well, I'm sorry if my optimism and patience can't rub off on you a little.
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Thanks Matt!
David, Matt brings up a good idea. Please put together a list of all the requests you have if you would like them to be taken seriously. Simply putting requests in very long posts throughout dgrin and facebook will not guarantee we will see them, or even fully understand them. I want to address them. I want to put them into the feedback forum, and I want to bring them to my meetings with the Product department. I just can't go searching dgrin for your posts every month.
Thanks!
Michael
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In the long run this would save time for the customer and help desk.
Phil
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil
Thanks for the feedback Phil! We realize we didn't have the full scope of Getting Started content we would have liked. We take full responsibility for that, and I do apologize.
Michael
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New Design poor at best
Kill Nothing But Time :clap
Leave Nothing But Footprints :thumb
http://www.samsplacephotos.com
In the past 3 days, I have encountered many bugs on my website and so far, everything was fixed.
Yes, I say it again: "Be patient", they just launched a product less than a week ago and bugs/fixes are expected. They are also giving you the choice to stay with the old Smugmug for a while, until you are ready to do the transition.
It's their website and their business. You, even as a paying customer, are not entitled to force them to choose the path they take. If I liked Windows 95, i'm not going to request Microsoft to continue supporting it because I PAID!
And stop bringing the "but they broke the legacy websites too", it has been fixed already, as far as I've seen.
I'm happy with the changes and I'm excited to see what the future holds.
http://www.canvas-of-light.com
http://canvas-of-light.smugmug.com/
Thank you for the kind words! We are excited for the future as well and look forward to delivering you an even better product.
Michael
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By the way, never had any bugs with any Adobe, or Windows, ... software ? The world must be full of angry young men (and women). Guess I'm not one of them. Congrats smugmug, you rock, and I'm all confident. Keep up the good work.
Jose
Excellent website. Well laid out, simple and clean, and aesthetically pleasing. May I ask, did you create that with, or without, any additional coding?
Brilliant images - you are a very good photographer.
Awesome! I created 20 something sites in the week before launch. You are right on my tail. Looks like I need to start building more!
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Photography!
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Thanks so much for the kind words. The only code I used was the HTML "mailto" phrase (in bold) for the Send Mail link on the inside pages. The text boxes take HTML code readily. Everything else is stock from the "Sierra" template. I had about 8 pages of code for my legacy site. This is just great.
Best,
JAS
http://www.josesuroeditorial.com/
Glad you liked the process! It's nice not having to code, isn't it?
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Yes!!! I hate to debug, that takes the longest. Once the dust settles a bit I'll get back to you with some minor bugs and such. So far so great
Jose
http://www.josesuroeditorial.com/
It's good to know that Smug is aware of the video tutorial shortfall. Is there a plan to make videos available with a target release date you can share with us? I looked at the example mentioned by Phil above, and the first video on Lightroom has 31,000 views - If Adobe has good tutorials, that's 31,000 emails that the Adobe Tech staff members did't have to deal with on Topic #1 alone.
On another note, visited your converted site and liked not only the site, but also the great body of work.
Most important, glad Rocky is still wagging his stubby little tail - the story grabbed me.
John
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