Easier uploading for pro's?

BBones · March 28, 2006

Hey, question for you guys. Obviously I do a lot of uploading of photos, but I was wondering if there are any plans for an uploader that allows for folders to be included.

Basically I have a gig of photos to post, but it is broken up into smaller photo groups due to them being photos of racers. I can't very well spend my day making little uploads of 50 megs here and 100 megs there, it is not a useful way to spend my time.

DodgeV83 · March 28, 2006

They'll probably tell you to buy

http://www.starexplorer.com/

for $15

jfriend · March 28, 2006

Yep, Star Explorer

BBones wrote:

Hey, question for you guys. Obviously I do a lot of uploading of photos, but I was wondering if there are any plans for an uploader that allows for folders to be included.

Basically I have a gig of photos to post, but it is broken up into smaller photo groups due to them being photos of racers. I can't very well spend my day making little uploads of 50 megs here and 100 megs there, it is not a useful way to spend my time.

I use Star Explorer and routinely do unattended uploads of hundreds of MBs across many different galleries. I start the upload, go to sleep and it's finished in the morning. http://www.starexplorer.com/.

Andy · March 28, 2006

BBones wrote:

Hey, question for you guys. Obviously I do a lot of uploading of photos, but I was wondering if there are any plans for an uploader that allows for folders to be included.

Basically I have a gig of photos to post, but it is broken up into smaller photo groups due to them being photos of racers. I can't very well spend my day making little uploads of 50 megs here and 100 megs there, it is not a useful way to spend my time.

Hi Bones,

It's not only for Pros - lots of folks upload tons and tons of photos at a time.

You can dump as many files as you like, into the Universal Uploader.

You can get SendToSmugMug for a donation of beer money.
http://wiki.shahine.com/default.aspx/MyWiki.SendToSmugMug

You can buy Star Explorer, as many have, for a few bucks more.
http://www.starexplorer.com/

I hope this helps!

BBones · March 29, 2006

The java uploader is cool but does not let me do auto galleries (if that is a term) and it crashes very often on me which means I need to wait about 5-10 minutes for Smugmug to catch up to what I uploaded so I can delete that last one that didn't quite make it and then start over again where it left off.

I will try the S*E

Micky · March 30, 2006

BBones wrote:

Hey, question for you guys. Obviously I do a lot of uploading of photos, but I was wondering if there are any plans for an uploader that allows for folders to be included.

Basically I have a gig of photos to post, but it is broken up into smaller photo groups due to them being photos of racers. I can't very well spend my day making little uploads of 50 megs here and 100 megs there, it is not a useful way to spend my time.

Here is a newbie question (don't hit me too hard...)

Are there any FTP guidelines or instructions? I checked the Pro FAQ and didn't see much of anything that mentioned FTP...

Micky - K1XH

luke_church · March 30, 2006

BBones wrote:

I will try the S*E

If it doesn't work out for you, please drop me an email or PM with the exact behaviour you would like implemented with respect to folders....

E.g. do you want

Folder -> Folder -> Folder
Category -> SubCategory -> Album

I may have something in the works for you

Luke

luke_church · March 30, 2006

Micky wrote:

Here is a newbie question (don't hit me too hard...)

Don't worry, we don't hit people here

:

Are there any FTP guidelines or instructions?

As far as I know Smugmug doesn't support FTP uploading.

What feature is it from FTP that you'd be looking for? Is it the folder hierachy type thing, or the delayed upload option?

Let me know and I'll see if I can help.

Luke

Micky · March 30, 2006

luke_church wrote:

Don't worry, we don't hit people here :

As far as I know Smugmug doesn't support FTP uploading.

What feature is it from FTP that you'd be looking for? Is it the folder hierachy type thing, or the delayed upload option?

Let me know and I'll see if I can help.

Luke

Delayed/Unattended operation as well as speed.

As you probably know, FTP can sometimes perform better than other types of transfers (most notably HTTP...) also has the possiblity of fewer dropped packets, etc.

I just think I can minimize xfer times with FTP. I use it from home->work all the time, seems faster to me, but again, I am not the expert...

And thanks for the quick reply. Everyone here is great. I can only hope to someday be worthy of such a place!

Micky - K1XH

luke_church · March 30, 2006

Micky wrote:

Delayed/Unattended operation as well as speed.

That wouldn't be too hard to solve, if you're really interested.

I just think I can minimize xfer times with FTP. I use it from home->work all the time, seems faster to me, but again, I am not the expert...

Off the top of my head, without going back to the protocol descriptions, I think that the HTTP overhead is higher, esp. during HTTPS connection negociation. But I wouldn't like to say for certain.

It also has insane firewalling problems because of the 'call me back on this random higher numbered port'

Do you know whether the uploader is saturating your outgoing bandwidth? If it isn't (and depending on the way you talk to the world, it may well not be), uploading could be accelerated by a bit of multi-connection trickery...

Can you give me an indicaton of how much this (scheduling/delay + outgoing link saturation) bothers you?

Luke

SamirD · May 8, 2006

I would also like to see better uploading tools developed. I've actually signed up to Exposure Manager because of their standard ftp upload. It's faster and less work for me, but I haven't tried any real tests with it yet.

I generate anywhere from 1-4GB per weekend of photos that must be online within 48 hours for maximum impact. To accomplish this, I have three 4mb/384k cable modems connected to a Linksys rv016 multi-wan router. I have to use 3+ computers on the network and break up the batch between them to get the optimal bandwidth usage, which gets the images up as fast as possible.

For ftp, all I would have to do is use Filezilla setup to 4 streams (or any other ftp client with streams and queues) and one computer. This will reduce the setup time for the upload by almost 10x. And then I can sleep earlier after coming home at 2am from covering events.

The same solution can be achieved with Smugmug's uploading system, but the concept of streams needs to be introduced. Or at least a way to run multiple sessions of the same program on the same computer. That's all I need to maximize my outgoing bandwidth without having to launch a bunch of programs on a bunch of computers.

luke_church · May 8, 2006

SamirD wrote:

I would also like to see better uploading tools developed.

I hear you.

SmugUp should help serve your purpose.

Intended release July - August.

Luke

SamirD · May 8, 2006

luke_church wrote:

I hear you.

SmugUp should help serve your purpose.

Intended release July - August.

Luke

You've got my attention.

Any more info?

jfriend · May 8, 2006

A couple ideas

SamirD wrote:

I would also like to see better uploading tools developed. I've actually signed up to Exposure Manager because of their standard ftp upload. It's faster and less work for me, but I haven't tried any real tests with it yet.

I generate anywhere from 1-4GB per weekend of photos that must be online within 48 hours for maximum impact. To accomplish this, I have three 4mb/384k cable modems connected to a Linksys rv016 multi-wan router. I have to use 3+ computers on the network and break up the batch between them to get the optimal bandwidth usage, which gets the images up as fast as possible.

For ftp, all I would have to do is use Filezilla setup to 4 streams (or any other ftp client with streams and queues) and one computer. This will reduce the setup time for the upload by almost 10x. And then I can sleep earlier after coming home at 2am from covering events.

The same solution can be achieved with Smugmug's uploading system, but the concept of streams needs to be introduced. Or at least a way to run multiple sessions of the same program on the same computer. That's all I need to maximize my outgoing bandwidth without having to launch a bunch of programs on a bunch of computers.

Here are a couple things you could try:

Try contacting Nikolai (the author of StarExplorer) and see if there's a way to run multiple instances of StarExplorer on the same machine or if he will make a version that supports that option so you can use it for multiple uploads streams. Their contact page is here and he's often on dgrin too.
Use one of the virtualization pieces of software on a PC to allow multiple windows sessions which would then allow you to run multiple copies of any Smgumug uploader you want (like StarExplorer).

luke_church · May 8, 2006

SamirD wrote:

You've got my attention. Any more info?

It's a .NET based uploader for Windows.

- It creates n concurrent HTTP streams to allow it to saturate the network links.

- It can create folder hierachies (drag a folder onto a sub-category, it will create an album with that folder name, and then upload all of the photos)

- It traps errors on uploads and automatically retries the images

The core of the software (the parralelised upload engine) is already built and working. In early testing from my machine in the UK, I attained a 30x upload speedup, how much you will get depends on your local network conditions. Essentially it should be able to saturate the ntework lnk (which the normal uploader doesn't seem to get anywhere near from here)

It's essentially waiting for the UI to be built and tested, hence scheduled release in July-August when I expect to have some time.

:

Does this help? Anything other questions I can answer?

Cheers,

Luke

SamirD · May 8, 2006

jfriend wrote:

Here are a couple things you could try:
Try contacting Nikolai (the author of StarExplorer) and see if there's a way to run multiple instances of StarExplorer on the same machine or if he will make a version that supports that option so you can use it for multiple uploads streams. Their contact page is here and he's often on dgrin too.

I believe I have contacted Nikolai about this idea, but I could be wrong.

jfriend wrote:

Use one of the virtualization pieces of software on a PC to allow multiple windows sessions which would then allow you to run multiple copies of any Smgumug uploader you want (like StarExplorer).

I'd hate to have to go through the hassle of software emulations like that. I've got a bunch of computers, but even with an 8-way kvm switch, it's still a hassle compared to what it could be.

SamirD · May 8, 2006

luke_church wrote:

It's a .NET based uploader for Windows.

- It creates n concurrent HTTP streams to allow it to saturate the network links.

- It can create folder hierachies (drag a folder onto a sub-category, it will create an album with that folder name, and then upload all of the photos)

- It traps errors on uploads and automatically retries the images

The core of the software (the parralelised upload engine) is already built and working. In early testing from my machine in the UK, I attained a 30x upload speedup, how much you will get depends on your local network conditions. Essentially it should be able to saturate the ntework lnk (which the normal uploader doesn't seem to get anywhere near from here)

It's essentially waiting for the UI to be built and tested, hence scheduled release in July-August when I expect to have some time. :

Does this help? Anything other questions I can answer?

Cheers,

Luke

WOW!! This is EXACTLY what I need. I would love to extensively beta test this software for you. I send fairly large batches every few days, and with the rv016 router, the saturation algorithm might get fooled since the feedback on the line usage won't necessarily be from the same cable modem.

I'm familiar with DOS, Windows, command line, batch files, some php, and some C. You're welcome to any resources I have to help finish your project faster. And then sign me up as your first customer.

J-Mac · May 8, 2006

Hi folks.

After reading this thread tonight, I decided to download the trial of Star Explorer.

It's working very spotty - Is Star Explorer a beta version, by any chance?

I set all my options and confirmed it is connecting with my account. Then I created a new gallery within Star Explorer - all is OK so far. The problems start when I try to load photos for upload to the new gallery. I loaded about 70 images from one folder, then I started picking images from various other folders to add. On about the fourth folder each time, with a total of only ~120 images, Star Explorer terminates silently. No warning, no error message - nothing. It just disappears. Of course when I re-open it, it does not "remember" any of the images that were loaded for upload - I have to start all over again.

It did this five straight times. I finally started adding only about 40 to 50 images at a time and then quickly clicking on "Upload". That works fine, but I thought one of the purposes of this application was to be able to load many more images at a time.

Are others experiencing this?

If it worked as advertised, I would consider purchasing it. But if this is par for the course with this app, it's not worth anything at all to me!

BTW, everyone keeps mentioning that the price is $15; not necessarily so. It's $15 only for a Standard Smugmug subscription. Power Users must pay $30.

But I need to do something to get my photos uploaded. The only update tools I see available on the Smugmug site itself are not the greatest by any means. Is there an uploader that can be used from the desktop, like most other online photo services have? I hate having to keep the browser open with a reduced screen and then have to drag photos from a reduced Windows Explorer window. Isn't there a way to upload directly from Windows Explorer? Other services have a download that interacts with Explorer that allows you to select a number of files and upload directly from that window.

Ant feedback on this application would be appreciated. Particularly anything regarding this behavior of suddenly closing. I'm hoping that this is a known issue that has a simple fix.

Thanks!

Andy · May 8, 2006

J-Mac wrote:

Ant feedback on this application would be appreciated. Particularly anything regarding this behavior of suddenly closing. I'm hoping that this is a known issue that has a simple fix.

Thanks!

Email Nikolai directly, he'll answer you I'm certain. He's also here on Dgrin, you can PM him.

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=4126

Have you also looked at SendToSmugmug?

http://www.smugmug.com/hack/hacks-apps

J-Mac · May 8, 2006

Andy wrote:

Email Nikolai directly, he'll answer you I'm certain. He's also here on Dgrin, you can PM him.

Thanks Andy - I'll do that. Is this usually a reliable app? Does it run OK normally with WinXP SP2? I noticed that Nikolai seems to push Apple a lot. Was it developed for Apple and then modified for Windows?

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=4126

Have you also looked at SendToSmugmug?
http://www.smugmug.com/hack/hacks-apps

No, I hadn't seen that. Is that a Smugmug feature? I didn't see that anywhere on the site.

Thanks!

BTW, you must live on here, Andy!

:

luke_church · May 9, 2006

SamirD wrote:

WOW!! This is EXACTLY what I need. I would love to extensively beta test this software for you. I send fairly large batches every few days, and with the rv016 router, the saturation algorithm might get fooled since the feedback on the line usage won't necessarily be from the same cable modem.

Cool. If you drop me an email, I'll let you know when the first version is ready for testing. Thanks.

You're welcome to any resources I have to help finish your project faster. And then sign me up as your first customer.

Thanks very much. Looking forwards to it.

:

Cheers,

Luke

jfriend · May 9, 2006

I've had flawless performance from StarExplorer

J-Mac wrote:

After reading this thread tonight, I decided to download the trial of Star Explorer.

It's working very spotty - Is Star Explorer a beta version, by any chance?

I' ve been using StarExplorer for more than a year. I have never had a single upload failure. I have regularly uploaded hundreds of files across multiple galleries in a single unattended session. Like Andy says, I suggest you contact Nikolai directly because I do not think your experience is what others see.

SamirD · May 9, 2006

J-Mac wrote:

Is this usually a reliable app? Does it run OK normally with WinXP SP2?

I've used SE extensively for the last few months on a mix of xp, 98se, and with all sorts of cpu/memory combinations. I've only seen it disconnect a few times out of 80,000+ photos uploaded, although it does seem to have a problem when pushed beyond 1gb in all my test scenarios.

I've played with SendToSmugMug today, but I didn't do any uploads to test it. I'll probably be doing that later this week/weekend.

SamirD · May 9, 2006

luke_church wrote:

Cool. If you drop me an email, I'll let you know when the first version is ready for testing. Thanks.

Thanks very much. Looking forwards to it. :

Cheers,

Luke

email sent.

J-Mac · May 9, 2006

jfriend wrote:

I' ve been using StarExplorer for more than a year. I have never had a single upload failure. I have regularly uploaded hundreds of files across multiple galleries in a single unattended session. Like Andy says, I suggest you contact Nikolai directly because I do not think your experience is what others see.

I've already been in contact with Nikolai. He's thinking it might have been due to a corrupted image file of some sort, but not sure. Who knows, maybe it's my system.

BTW, the problem did not involve uploading at all, so that's not the comparison to look at.

It occured while selecting files to upload - I wasn't even getting to the upload itself. Selecting files from up to three separate folders went fine. It's on the fourth source folder - as I click on "Save" after selecting the files to upload from that fodler - that S*E simply terminates. No warning, no error message. I didn't have S*E logging enabled at first, but I do now so if it happens again I can look there.

Selecting an entire folder to upload worked fine, as did selecting multiple files from up to three folders. It's just that rotten fourth folder; when I try to load files from there to the Upload pane (bottom), that it just closes. As soon as I click on the Save button. Oddly enough, there is nothing listed in the event viewer either. I have enabled another system "watcher" to monitor activities to see if that can pick up what is happening.

As for uploading itself, I just started trying this late last night, but I did upload a folder with 560 image files without incident.

This happened on my notebook, running Win XP Pro SP2. I'll have to try it on my desktop PC - also running XP Pro SP2, but the Media Center 2004 edition of Pro. See if that acts similarly.

As I said, the upload itself was phenomenal! Very quick, and virtually unattended. I did notice that when I stepped away from the machine for a while, the screensaver kicked in and all uploading stopped until I returned and closed the screensaver. I can just turn that off unless I am going somewhere where I would be wise to keep the password-protected screensaver activated. (I used to need that mostly in business situations where the client preferred that all data be hidden from prying eyes. But that doesn't come into play now, so I can abandon the screensaver if need be).

I had thought that perhaps the upload process itself would keep the screensaver from activating. Some applications I use do that, some don't. No big deal there.

All in all, it's a great application. I just have to locate the source of the closing unexpectedly on my notebook.

Oh, BTW: I mentioned in a previous post that it looked to me like I would need the Power User version for $30 instead of the oft-mentioned $15. That was a misunderstanding based on the fact that the three versions of S*E are named exactly the same as the titles of the three subscription levels offered by SmugMug. Nikolai cleared that up for me - any version of S*E can be used with any SmugMug subscription level. The names are just arbitrary and denote the level of features available in each version. That being said, unless one is using a Pro account to its fullest, the Power version of S*E looks to be the best mix of features and price - at least to me.

Nikolai · May 9, 2006

Jim,
Thank you for clearing things here!

J-Mac wrote:

Selecting an entire folder to upload worked fine, as did selecting multiple files from up to three folders. It's just that rotten fourth folder; when I try to load files from there to the Upload pane (bottom), that it just closes. As soon as I click on the Save button.

BTW - I don't recall having any "Save" button on any of the two primary toolbars?
If, by any chance you're talking about "safe"-looking brownish "half-open door" one (first left on the main toolbar) - it's not "save", it's "exit" (all buttons have hints, please before activating)

:
The good news is - latest versions of S*E (like the one you have) do automatically save the queue once you've started the upload. So even if some mishap happens during the actual upload, you queue should remain intact, all you need to do is to relaunch the application.

As to the screen saver "stopping" S*E - I think it could be simply a UI impression - it works in fact, just does not get a message from OS to update itself.. I usually minimize S*E during the upload, so it's out of my way and does not waste cycles to update UI.

Please let me know if you have more questions/concerns!

Cheers!

Nikolai · May 9, 2006

Upload from Windows Explorer

J-Mac wrote:

Is there an uploader that can be used from the desktop, like most other online photo services have? I hate having to keep the browser open with a reduced screen and then have to drag photos from a reduced Windows Explorer window. Isn't there a way to upload directly from Windows Explorer? Other services have a download that interacts with Explorer that allows you to select a number of files and upload directly from that window.

In S*E, if you go to Options (Ctrl+F11), "Send to Smugmug" tab, you can activate "Send to Smugmug" feature, that will allow you to send your files directly from the Windows Explorer, using its standard context-menu "Send To.." feature (without even the need to launch S*E first) . It will populate S*E queue with your selection. After that all you have to do is to assign queued images to some new or existing albums and hit "green light" Upload button.

HTH

J-Mac · May 9, 2006

Nikolai wrote:

Thank you for clearing things here!

BTW - I don't recall having any "Save" button on any of the two primary toolbars?
If, by any chance you're talking about "safe"-looking brownish "half-open door" one (first left on the main toolbar) - it's not "save", it's "exit" (all buttons have hints, please before activating) :

Cheers!

Sorry - I misspoke - I'm talking about the button on the file selection dialog, where you click to load the selected files into the bottom "Upload" apne of S*E. It actually says "Open" in this dialog, but similar dialogs in lots of applications show the button as "Save".

:

Nikolai · May 9, 2006

A-ha

J-Mac wrote:

Sorry - I misspoke - I'm talking about the button on the file selection dialog, where you click to load the selected files into the bottom "Upload" apne of S*E. It actually says "Open" in this dialog, but similar dialogs in lots of applications show the button as "Save". :

I see: it's "open", not "save", and it's in standard windows "file open" dialog, not in S*E itself

Man, you gotta be careful with these things when reporting the problem, I might accidentally go and fix Windows itself instead of fixing my S*E

:

OK, back to business: if, by any chance, you have a reproductible case (like it happens each time you add certain file, or empty line, or something that happens each and every time) - please let me know (maybe send me the file), it should be something really simple...

Thanks!

PS
Cute torn edges, did you use some action? Looks very nice!

J-Mac · May 9, 2006

Nikolai wrote:

I see: it's "open", not "save", and it's in standard windows "file open" dialog, not in S*E itself
Man, you gotta be careful with these things when reporting the problem, I might accidentally go and fix Windows itself instead of fixing my S*E :

Yeah, we all wish!

OK, back to business: if, by any chance, you have a reproductible case (like it happens each time you add certain file, or empty line, or something that happens each and every time) - please let me know (maybe send me the file), it should be something really simple...

Thanks!

PS
Cute torn edges, did you use some action? Looks very nice!

It's reproducible - or at least it was last night. I'm going to try to again when I get home tonight and see if I can pin it down to certain folders or files - maybe I'll find the corruption.

Even though it's a Windows dialog, it hasn't happened in other instances.

BTW, the torn edge on the pic I posted is an effect you can apply with SnagIt - one of my most valuable utilities!

Thanks, Nikolai.

J-Mac · May 9, 2006

Is there a particular forum or sub-forum for Star Explorer support or questions?

I hate to create threads for questions, and I don't know that I need to be writing to Nikolai every time I have a question.

Thanks!

Easier uploading for pro's?

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